The new “Linux-enabled” Lenovo laptop launched this week at LinuxWorld will not actually come “pre-loaded” with Novell SUSE Linux, a high-ranking Lenovo official said today, contradicting some industry reports stating otherwise.
The Real Lenovo Laptop Deal – Blank Disk, No Linux Pre-Loaded
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Okay, then that begs the question of will I be able to download the Linux drivers for other distro’s or only SLED? I gathered that only SLED will be supported, so why not pre-install it?
I guess if they ship their laptops with SLED pre-installed, they have to pay.
I guess if they ship their laptops with SLED pre-installed, they have to pay.
That would be my guess as well.
But that makes it even more outrageous you have to pay top-dollar for it.
Edited 2006-08-17 00:03
Okay, then that begs the question of will I be able to download the Linux drivers for other distro’s or only SLED? I gathered that only SLED will be supported, so why not pre-install it?
You’re right, I don’t see the point either. What this boils down to is driver support for linux, but thinkpads were always well regarded for linux support due to the IBM heritage.
This is a pattern that seems to get repeated. Dell and HP both had linux laptops in Europe (Mandriva for Dell, Ubuntu for HP) and in both cases, it was actually a blank hard drive and an install disk.
The only thing I can think of is concern over the proprietary module issue, prefering to leave it to the user to install and bypass gpl restrictions on distribution. The only other workaround would be some sort of custom “first-boot” installer that would require the user to consciously choose to install the driver when the machine was first powered up, but that would have involved some coding they may not have been willing to do. That’s just speculation on my part.
There is also the MS bugaboo, with their major OEMs paying a licensing fee for each system shipped in the US. Could be the contracts prevent pre-loading alternative OSes on desktops, maybe a blank hdd is the only way to bypass the charge. However, while I can see that working in the US, I doubt that it would hold in the EU, or frankly anywhere else. That’s just even more speculation on my part, MS OEM contracts are held under NDA’s tight enough to make national security classifications seem tame.
Option number three, the most likely one in my book I’m sad to say, is that Novell probably threw some huge marketing funds at Lenovo to buy into this. Could be Novell was onto a major corporate deal or two and needed something like this to secure their position, it does seem a little odd that the particular models chosen seem so targeted.
At the end of the day, I’m not sure anything has changed. Customer still installs it themselves, customer still downloads drivers and installs them, customer still pays Novell for license, customer still calls Novell for issues beyond the hardware not working.
Too bad, this seemed like a big step forward. Hope it doesn’t blow up and get somehow twisted into a defeat for desktop linux.
edit: typo
Edited 2006-08-17 00:01
well .. after YEARS of reading osnews on a daily basis, you just got me to singup …
Dell and HP both had linux laptops in Europe (Mandriva for Dell, Ubuntu for HP)
Where did you get that from??
Where can I buy a Dell lappy with Mandriva?
That’s exactly what I’m looking/wishing for .. as a matter of fact, I’m looking for a 640m with mandriva !
Please, any info on that will be greatly appreciated!
//Where can I buy a Dell lappy with Mandriva?
That’s exactly what I’m looking/wishing for .. as a matter of fact, I’m looking for a 640m with mandriva !
Please, any info on that will be greatly appreciated!//
Why does it have to be Dell?
In this list:
http://lxer.com/module/forums/t/23168/
there are 8 occurrences of “Mandriva”.
Take your pick.
1) thanks for the link !!
<wayOT>
2) – I already had a thinkpad and got caught by the crappy 24rf08 chipset (summing up: a defect on the system’s electric circuit causes a bad write to the eeprom and upon boot time you’ll get a 0175: BAD CRC1 and the system stalls. IBM will tell you to change the whole motherboard. http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/AT24RF08 amongst many other links). Furthermore, those are lenovos now, and some of them still use that crappy chip. No more money goes from my pocket to IBM’s revenue.
– As of now, I own a Toshiba (p15-s479) and to my disguts, and although I payed for a toshiba, it seems that I got a “compal” (and so did some others: http://linux.toshiba-dme.co.jp/ML/tlinux-users/8000/thread.html … also stated in the nvidia kernel module readme and in jhonnatan buzard’s page). Toshiba’s linux support is almos non existant. No more money goes from my pockets to any corp that gives me a cat instead of the rabbit they got me to pay for.
– Hp, Compaq, Acer and others seem to be in the same league. (http://sourceforge.net/projects/omke/). No money there either …
that leaves me with really few choices .. and at least dell has http://linux.dell.com/ …
</wayOT>
Please, any info on that will be greatly appreciated!
Ok, I should qualify that. It was made available in France only, and was only on lower-end models. Don’t know if they still do, this was last year.
http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1895,1860031,00.asp
Do a search on Dell, Mandriva and France and you’ll come across a number of articles, the one above is the first one I saw.
Doubt this is going to help you, you may as well just pay the Windows tax and install Mandriva on the laptop. Depending on where you are, you may even be able to force them to sell you a blank system, I’ve heard rumours to that effect, but it’s something you’d have to call for, won’t find it on the website. Oh, and even if they sell you a Window-less system, it likely won’t be any cheaper. Go figure.
It was made available in France only
=(
you may as well just pay the Windows tax and install Mandriva on the laptop
yup .. that’s what I plan on doing =D
Thanks for the info !
This is actually just what I am looking for: a reasonably priced, high quality laptop without an os. Since they are supoorting SLED, they will probably release drivers that would work with other distros, as it would be quite difficult and extra work to release drivers that only worked with SLED.
The sad part though, is that if these are drivers that need to be downloaded “for paying registered customers only”, me thinks it’s likely just more proprietary crap which very much could be tied to x version of y distro (and even if not, still closed, hence still uninteresting to someone wanting to run untainted linux on their lappy)
no, doesn’t make much sense to me, but so much of corporate-think doesn’t either…
Grr. There are few things I despise more than companies who make it difficult to find drivers for their hardware.
Too bad it is not “reasonably priced”
Starts at over $3000
http://www.betanews.com/article/Lenovo_Debuts_SUSE_Linux_Portables/…
They sell Business desktops with SUSE disk, but the users must install the OS themselves.http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc/us/en/sm/WF04a/12454-64287-89301-321…
Lenovo betrayed us.
Lenovo went out of their way to make it perfectly clear the they WERE NOT pre-installing Linux.
Quote from Lenovo:
“Let me be clear: We are not preloading,” Aggarwal said. “What we’re giving the customer is more choice in the ability to go to Novell and get the license and the operating system. We’re providing the drivers and the utilities.”
In other words it’s just another no-OS laptop.
It sounds like Microsoft yanked Lenovo’s chain
and Lenovo is whimpering “yes we’re still your lapdog”.
Here’s a list of companies selling preinstalled Linux Desktops and Laptops.
http://lxer.com/module/forums/t/23168/
It sounds like Microsoft yanked Lenovo’s chain
and Lenovo is whimpering “yes we’re still your lapdog”.
While it may sound like that, it would be a violation of the antitrust settlement, if it were actually true. Do you have any evidence?
This is WEIRD.
Lenovo is SUPPORTING Linux
(the hard part),
yet they won’t image a hard disk with Linux
(the easy part).
This wreaks with anticompetitive Microsoft manipulation.
If they preinstalled the OS, they would have to offer an install type option to determine the partition setup, so then they are into additional complexity when it’s just as easy for someone to put the cd/dvd in and boot the machine when they first get it. Besides the fact that when people buy a machine with windows installed it’s usually only so far into the install and you have to run through the rest of the setup on first boot, which is frankly as much time (30 minutes tops) as it would take to run through and install the linux distro that came with the machine and has all the drivers on disc. In fact the only difference I see here is that with windows it is always the minimal os install with your prefered programs being installed after the fact and with linux you will always be installing a set of programs included with the distro that will vary according to your intended use (job/hobby/whatever) of the machine. There is a lot of options with a linux install because it includes so much. Leaving the whole install to the user is the easiest and best way to make everyone happy with the least amount of pain, all round. I’m sure lots of people that opt for the no-os linux supported laptop will install windows, for better or worse, so pre-installing would have to take that into account. How about swap space, if you order a laptop with 512MB of ram and want your swap to be 1GB, or you bought 2GB…
Anyone have a way to preinstall the os taking these things into account that are less complicated for both user and Lenovo?
Anyone have a way to preinstall the os taking these things into account that are less complicated for both user and Lenovo?
In one of the recent Novell Linux reviews it said that one could create some kind of installtion profile and run unattendet installtions with it.
So it would only take a tool or web application to answer all those installation choices and then send the profile to Lenovo.
In the best case it would be just another page after the hardware configuration on their built-to-order website
“If they preinstalled the OS, they would have to offer an install type option to determine the partition setup, so then they are into additional complexity when it’s just as easy for someone to put the cd/dvd in and boot the machine when they first get it.”
It is not that complex. Dell for example offers this with Windows machines, desktops and laptops on the business side. You can specify custom partitions. Either way they make an image then install all the machines the same. I would not think it would be that hard for Lenovo to do.
Many of the Lenovo laptops come with newer ATI graphics cards, which requre proprietary drivers.
These proprietary drivers are only legal if you do not redistribute the modules after linking. However, installing the drivers involves linking, which means that Lenovo could not legally redistribute the modules.
Point is, short of using Intel graphics cards (ie: retooling their factories and replacing their motherboards) they CAN’T ship Linux preinstalled, at least not legally.
Of course they can, but that means they must pay some money for each installation, probably more expensive than Windows XP OEM price. But I think only n00b wants their laptop preinstalled; g33k will install his OS himself, so it’s not limited to SLED.
not only are they cheaper but that way you have a legal copy of windows if you ever need to run games by dual booting or even run it in a VM like QEMU or VMWARE ;o)
Lenovo really pulled one over on us. The media has been reporting that Lenovo would be preloading SLED 10 on the T60P since August 4. The excitement builds toward their presentation at LinuxWorld, where almost two weeks later, they announce that all of those news articles were false.
No, everybody, what Lenovo is doing is nothing like preloading Linux, it’s more like charging an exorbitant amount for the privilege of downloading proprietary Thinpad-specific utilities/bloatware.
You see, when “sources familiar with” this scheme said that Lenovo would preload SLED 10 on the T60p, they actually meant that Lenovo will redirect support calls to Novell and let you download the usual proprietary graphics drivers from their website. They won’t even let you purchase SLED 10 along with a T60p, you’ll have to buy it separately from Novell.
The best part is that you get to pay $3,000 or more for a laptop, and the Lenovo exec says that the capability to support 4GB of memory and the awesome Linux ports of their Windows Thinkpad utilities justify the cost.
I don’t know what to say. This is the most liberal interpretation of “supporting Linux” that I have ever encountered. This makes Novell’s customers less likely to buy support from Novell since Lenovo will handle simple support cases, so I hope they’re getting a cut of the action. This is not progress. This doesn’t make Linux on the desktop any more viable than before, and this doesn’t make Lenovo Thinkpads any more compelling for prospective Linux desktop customers.
it will be too difficult to build a commercial working full-function-supporting laptop install based on linux.
would hibernating work flawlessly? is 3d supported? networking (modem/wifi etc)?
then although i like a free operatingsystem, i rather would have a functional laptop installed with windows.
for businesses/enterprises on the other hand who can have resources reserved to develop a working platform, ah well it really doesnt matter what is preloaded or not.
the same for nerds who spend sleepless nights to make sure the colour of their command prompt has the right teint of green.
Difficult? Why would it be difficult?
WiFi works
NIC’s work
3D works
Audio works
What doesn’t work in Linux/x86?
//What doesn’t work in Linux/x86?//
Viruses, spyware, keyloggers and malware of a huge variety … virtually the entire lot.
Lock-in and “lack of interoperability”. ActiveX and other similar security holes.
DRM and other rights-removing applications.
WGA and similar “system killer” schemes.
CD keys and other types of registration.
The whole lot doesn’t work at all in Linux.
Edited 2006-08-17 12:05
Anybody who thought that OEMs were going to be extremely receptive to Linux and start pre-installing it in earnest were living in a fantasy world.
There’s a whole support and infrastructure ecosystem around Windows in OEMs, and Microsoft pretty much has OEMs over a barrel in terms of what they preload because without Windows an OEM is going to go out of business pretty fast. It’s this kind of infrastructure that I have commented on in the past which Novell has to try and get around.
They need a new distribution method which doesn’t involve OEMs (not initially anyway), and to do this they really need to give it away free over the internet like something like Firefox. Of course, that means they won’t be able to charge license and ‘support’ fees to download things like drivers and they’ll need an entirely new way of funding their desktop development.
Basically, SLED is dead in the water before it’s even got going because it just hasn’t got a chance of achieving any sort of critical usage mass.
Edited 2006-08-17 12:08
//Basically, SLED is dead in the water before it’s even got going because it just hasn’t got a chance of achieving any sort of critical usage mass. //
You think?
http://weblog.infoworld.com/openresource/archives/2006/08/state_gov…
http://computerworld.co.nz/news.nsf/0/DA4E46B24E23B45CCC2571B9001B3…
http://www.tectonic.co.za/view.php?src=rss&id=1085
http://www.computerworld.com.au/index.php?id=1267497878&eid=-219
http://desktoplinux.com/news/NS7131519895.html
http://www.pcwelt.de/news/englishnews/114859/
http://www.stuff.co.nz/stuff/0,2106,3740864a28,00.html
http://www.heise.de/english/newsticker/news/75560
http://www.hindu.com/2004/06/16/stories/2004061606911800.htm
http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=33120
http://weblog.infoworld.com/openresource/archives/2006/07/open_sour…
… and no Vista anywhere in sight.
I hate paying the Microsoft tax.
But you’re still paying the Microsoft tax in a way because the Linux version costs about $1000 more than the Windows version.
Why?
1000$ more ? Well, but for the same price, I’d rather by one laptop with Linux than two laptop with Windows ! …….
Hmmm, do I ?
You think?
http://weblog.infoworld.com/openresource/archives/2006/08/state_gov…
http://computerworld.co.nz/news.nsf/0/DA4E46B24E23B45CCC2571B9001B3…
etc. etc.
That’s the problem that seemingly everyone has when they think about things like SLED and its usage. They mistake soundbites on news sites and ‘rave‘ reviews of it on various Linux sites for people actually using the thing, and more importantly, paying Novell license and support fees for the privilege.
I’m afraid soundbites, articles of ‘movements’ to open source and news coverage is no substitute for people actually getting it and using the thing and paying money for the privilege. I will remind you of all those articles when Novell’s cash pile continues to dwindle, the brown stuff hits the fan and things start becoming really dire. Novell seem to be staking most of their future on this……..
I called them a week ago and was ready to plop down my Visa to purchase a SUSE Preloaded laptop and the rep told me that they were not offering it AT THIS TIME, but to call back in two weeks when they would release the new laptops… Now, they are saying that they NEVER planned on it… Yeah, smells like the Microsoft thugs payed them a visit… Idiots!!!
It’s always Microsoft’s fault isn’t it…
idiot
Yes, yes it is all MS’s fault… They are the ones who strong armed the industry and caused OEMs to be too afraid to show any bit of competition. They are the ones that created such a junk operating system that no one is safe on the internet or in any sort of network.
So yeah, it is ALL MS’s fault… No one else was found guilty of a monopoly, were they?
Get a clue…
keep living in your little zealot fantasy world…
“keep living in your little zealot fantasy world…”
—————————————————–
Thank you, I will; for a very very long time…