Submitted by Even though by now the bug is fixed, many people alerted us about the fact that updates to Xorg in Ubuntu broke X, leaving users with a command-line machine. If you happen to be one of the unhappy few, Ubuntu user tseliot provides the commands to fix your system. In the meantime, others are wondering how such a bug got past testing.
In the meantime, others are wondering how such a bug got past testing.
…because they didn’t test…
[sarcasm]But, if you’re only changing a few little lines here and there, why would you need to test it? C’mon, it’s only a line or three, it can’t be that big a deal.
Right?[/sarcasm]
Really? How do you know they did NOT test?
From the person, who made the fixed package – I assume he’s the owner of the X.Org packages:
Thanks for the bug report, guys.
Unfortunately I am not able to reproduce this locally, on any of my machines. The latest package upload of xorg-server has two patches that might be the responsible for this issue. I have packaged two different experimental versions of xorg-server, each one removing one of the mentioned patches.
https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/xorg-server/+bug/57153
Apparently, he has several machines and it showed on none of them. Apparently, the problem did not show on any of his machines.
I would not be so quick saying they did not test.
My brother added the update to his machine yesterday and he was complaining to me that his computer wasn’t working. So he reinstalled Ubuntu because he didn’t know what to do. After he reinstalled it, he tried the update again. The same thing happened. This time I had a look at the forums and applied the fix. It was a hassle.
This update should never have had been made public without proper testing. Sure, it may work on one machine, but there are many machines out there! People don’t like to tinker with things, especially with a command line. We want things to work!
For not testing, see my other entry – http://www.osnews.com/permalink.php?news_id=15587&comment_id=155082
As for “We want things to work!” – “there’s no such thing as a free lunch”. Either you pay with money (Windows, OS X) or with your time (tinkering with Linux). I think every desktop OS in use had a borked upgrade at least once.
…needs to expand their suite of test machines.
I think it’s about time X incorporated safe-mode functionality to work at least at 640×480 (or whatever the resolution is) if nothing else.
Nobody can accuse me of having a good word to say about Windows, but it has never failed to come up with at least a safe mode screen once it’s booted. Of course, Windows wouldn’t give you a nice commandline to fix it if it went belly-up either…
Bugs come and go, but a resolution is forever.
And wasted time fixing the problem is forever.
Better testing needs to be done from now in order to prevent such a situation.
I agree with that. An ounce of prevention is worth more than a pound of cure. I’m just full of cliches today. But yes, the prevention of bugs through better testing methods will prove to be worthwhile.
In what software world do you live in. In the one that I live in regression is a fact of existence. The only way that you find out about it is to test.
..updates to Xorg in Ubuntu broke X, leaving users with a command-line machine…
Imagine the utter horror on the face of your average Ubuntu user when they get dropped to a command line: “Why is the screen all black? Where do I click? What? Help!”
Tee hee..
Admittedly, that is frustrating and something to avoid. However, if you got the blue screen using Windows, you would have no hope of recovering. In Linux, you can recover. If you don’t know how to get around on the command line interface, you could boot to your live CD and replace the offending files.
I’d take a black screen in Linux than a blue screen in Windows any day.
Edited 2006-08-22 19:51
Except that the last time I saw a BSoD on a non-tricked-out XP box was oh … 2002.
And here’s the thing … after a BSoD, the user knows to reboot, and all is good. You can’t just reboot your Linux box that has broken its X installation to get back into GNOME/KDE.
>Except that the last time I saw a BSoD on a non-tricked-out XP box was oh … 2002.
Could that be because XP automatically reboots itself, and hides the BSOD.
>And here’s the thing … after a BSoD, the user knows to reboot, and all is good. You can’t just reboot your Linux box that has broken its X installation to get back into GNOME/KDE.
WRONG. A lot of things can be fixed in Windows by rebooting, a BSOD is hardly ever one of those things. Most BSODs are caused by faulty drivers or a bad patch. Exactly how is rebooting going to remove either of those?
you can use recovery console to fix patch problem. You don’t even need installation cd if you have installed it.
If driver is bad then linux will crash too.
But what this has to do with Ubuntu?
Only because MS has questionable reputation you want to compare ubuntu to windows?
If that is the case then I am sorry for ubuntu users.
This is quite stupid attitude:
On the one hand linux is better, but if fails then first excuse is that windows is flaved too.
Recently ubuntu had more severe problems than other (popular) distros :
ubuntu installation CD had different compiler version that one used for kernel, next it was world readable root (sudo) password, now broken X. Ubuntu claims to be a friendly distro for non-experienced user. I doubt that this is the case.
Edited 2006-08-23 03:25
>ubuntu installation CD had different compiler version that one used for kernel
Not a bug, but good try.
>next it was world readable root (sudo) password
Which was in a log file only readable by….you guessed it ROOT. Please explain the logic behind hacking a Linux box at the root level, only to reveal the root password.
>now broken X
For some, not all of the users. Why do you care anyway? It’s obvious you’re not a Ubuntu user, just another troll.
“Which was in a log file only readable by….you guessed it ROOT.”
no,
password was readable ny any user:
maybe read this
https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+bug/34606
“The root password from the first user registred by Breezy can be found by any user by reading the file /var/log/installer/cdebconf/questions.dat”
I hope that you see a difference?
Tried ever to compile something for kernel with different compiler? This made impossible to compile nvidia module for example.
you don’t seem to know much about your favourite distro.
>password was readable ny any user:
maybe read this
https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+bug/34606
“The root password from the first user registred by Breezy can be found by any user by reading the file /var/log/installer/cdebconf/questions.dat”
except….
loki:~$ ls -l /var/log/installer/cdebconf/
total 6284
-rw——- 1 root root 70521 2006-08-13 10:38 questions.dat
-rw——- 1 root root 6357634 2006-08-13 10:38 templates.dat
Now stop trolling.
>Tried ever to compile something for kernel with different compiler? This made impossible to compile nvidia module for example.
You don’t/didn’t need to compile the nvidia driver in the first place. It’s in the repositories.
>you don’t seem to know much about your favourite distro.
Never did I say this was my favorite distro. It just happens to be one of the many OSs I use. Doesn’t change the fact that you are a habitual troll.
1) pasword bug is fixed, so not sure what what your listing has to do with the problem.
2) as compiler issues were fixed
3) as X problem got fixed.
But each did happen.
I don’t think that Ubuntu has all stuff pre-compiled. nvidia was an example
Read ubuntu mailing list, devs admitt that this was a mistake that should not happen.
ignoring issues is stupid. Thankfully ubuntu devs don’t.
The devs were on top of it pretty quickly and I’m very happy to hear that they acknowledged it. I think an official word to this site might not be a bad thing, along with a basic explaination of what happened and why it won’t happen again. Being on top of a problem is good, being on top of a problem and everyone knowing it is better.
“The devs were on top of it pretty quickly and I’m very happy to hear that they acknowledged it. I think an official word to this site might not be a bad thing, along with a basic explaination of what happened and why it won’t happen again. Being on top of a problem is good, being on top of a problem and everyone knowing it is better.”
You fail to see the real problem: the borked update stayed up for many hours after the problem was acknowledged, possibly (and certainly) breaking many and many systems out there.
Apparently it took a VERY long time for everything to get sorted out.
Its one thing if Solitaire has problems, due to not being tested extensively.
Its is a whole different thing when X goes. I did read that the maintainer tested it on a few of his own systems, but, again, this is X. Almost everyone using Ubuntu depends on this package working.
“It works for me” doesn’t really cut it on this one.
And they still haven’t done anything to get some press out to let people know what happened, how it happened and how it will never happen again.
And now its on Linux.com too.
*sigh*
>1) pasword bug is fixed, so not sure what what your listing has to do with the problem
The listing is from a Hoary box. As you can plainly see the file was only readable by the root user.
>But each did happen.
Yes, but every one of them has been blown way out of proportion.
this was fixed in Hoary. I assume that you do apply all the security paches?
The recovery console is a joke. I’d rather sit through reinstalling Windows than have to fight with that piece of junk.
Of course the 2nd best option is to use a Linux recovery disc to sort it out. If you have the hardware to support it, the first best option is to use VMware to run Windows on top of Windows, or not run it at all if you don’t need the apps/games.
Delete your Windows kernel, reboot and see if it fixes it.
I’ll be here waiting . . . lemme know when you’re done.
This time, delete your Linux kernel . . . now, put your Linux live CD in the tray, reboot, copy the kernel over and reboot.
There is no doubt about it, you can recover from a Linux mistake much easier than you can a Windows mistake. The BSOD’s that I was referring to were not the type you might expect from corrupted video drivers. I was referring to something more serious like a hosed registry. If you hose your registry, I hope you have a good backup. ‘Cause you ain’t gonna get out of that one with a live CD.
It’s not admirable for Ubuntu to release a broken piece of code. But, it happens. Hot off the press, I see that one of Microsoft’s patches broke IE.
http://searchsecurity.techtarget.com/originalContent/0,289142,sid14…
and I expect them to give me my money back.
Long life to them.
The developers are relatively few. You can’t expect them to test every hardware combo themselves. It’s possible all the users who experienced the bug during testing just assumed somebody else would submit the bug.
Yes, this is what happens when you don’t test enough. It’s also what happens when your RC users are newbies who just want to be on the bleeding edge but don’t know enough to submit bugs.
If the devlopers lack sufficient testing hardware, then Ubuntu should modify the updater to list the specific hardware they can vouch for.
As a long time Fedora and then CentOS user who has been extremely impressed with Ubuntu, (enough to switch) and who recommends Ubuntu to new users, I must say that this is absolutely inexcusable.
Considering Ubuntu’s likely status as the most popular distro for newbies, this falls into the category of something that should NEVER, NEVER, EVER, EVER, EVER have been allowed to happen.
I fixed this problem on my machine without realizing how widespread it was, and that’s OK. I can handle that. It’s my profession.
But if Ubuntu is going to target newbies, they sure as heck had better practice due diligence regarding updates, ALL THE TIME AND EVERY TIME, WITHOUT FAIL.
Ubuntu guys, a lot of water will have passed under the bridge before you gain credibility with me again.
Sorry for the acid tone, but in light of the responsibility that Ubuntu carries, I feel it is appropriate.
Edited 2006-08-22 18:35
You are overreacting.
Luckily for you, Ubuntu comes with a money back guarantee.
The new flavour of the week distro is always going to have a perfect record because it’s new.
Mistakes happen. Hopefully Ubuntu will learn from this and improve. It’s certainly not the end of the world or a sign that Ubuntu updates can never be trusted.
It’s inexcusable, but you’re overreacting. Most people would say that “Windows” is easier to use than “Linux” (an overgeneralisation, as well as just plain wrong, imo), but MS-DOS 4, Windows 98, and Windows ME were ridiculous failures (the second for me personally).
The only option for unfortunate users of the last two was to put up with it, or install the old version; back when DOS 4 was out, there was still some competition in the DOS market. For the record, apart from a short spell with WinXP, I have hardly used Windows at home since setting up a dual boot with Mandrake 6.4 in ’98 or ’99.
Wow. Software that doesn’t crash every five minutes – a revelation.
I was one of the unfortunate ones. I had just finished making all kinds of tweaks to Kubuntu the day before. Since I received the Xorg “update package” notification in my applet bar I *assumed* it was safe to install! Boy, was I wrong! I’m still a beginner at the command line so after about 45 minutes of fumbling around, I reinstalled Windows XP! I love Kubuntu but I just can’t afford an “oops” that leaves me in a vacuum.
Dont fool yourself… Every update for every OS has the potential to cause harm.. Look at the latest patchs from MS. they have to fix that because it caused apps to stop working on different hardware configs for windows 2003.
So always test the patch before you test install the patch
Uhm, we have a (non-productive, just does some DHCP temporarly) Windows 2003 Server in our company. On the last patchday it auto-installed some kind of patch (well at least that’s what we think happened). On the next day, the server didn’t respond (didn’t provide DHCP, so nobody could work) and I attached a monitor to it and found it rebooting constantly. It got until the Windows start up screen with the black background, then rebooted, then the startup screen, then rebooted etc. etc. All night long. I don’t know what happened, but I had to reinstall the whole thing. Well if this happens in Windows, you can’t do anything. The thing is: On Windows, I was in a vacuum, on Linux, you’re not in a vacuum, you’re on the command line where you still have full access to your computer and can fix everything.
<sarcasm>
Glad to hear that you took the oppertunity to learn something instead of taking the easy way out.
</sarcasm>
Dont fool yourself… Every update for every OS has the potential to cause harm.. Look at the latest patchs from MS. they have to fix that because it caused apps to stop working on different hardware configs for windows 2003.
So always test the patch before you test install the patch
Nope. Sorry. No excuses for this one. I like Linux but this transgression isn’t easy to forgive. I agree, windows issues patches…but I’ve NEVER been left at a command prompt because of a crappy patch!
jgotsch,
You are absolutely right. I can’t believe that anyone is trying to make excuses for this. I cannot fathom what:
“””So always test the patch before you test install the patch
“””
is supposed to mean for the newbie home user who is running Ubuntu on his only coomputer. This isn’t RHEL, and we’re not talking about a sysadmin testing a patch before deployment.
And what’s wrong with the distro maintainers testing the patch before it gets pushed out? It’s pretty obvious that this did not get any testing at all before being foisted upon unsuspecting newbies.
No. I’m an Ubuntu fan. But there is no excuse for this botch up.
However, if I had a sense of humor about it, I’d say something like:
Ubuntu: An ancient African word that means “sloppy procedures”. 😉
Edited 2006-08-22 19:12
Whose making excuses. You’re placing words in peoples mouths.
Oh wait… I forgot were I posted this.
Here is some advice.. Dont drink the koolaid about ubuntu and use a different distro. One that rolls up into an enterprise distro. You’ll have a better chance this wont happen.
If you installed MS-Windows only because of this problem, then it’s time to question your commitment to Linux. Did you wanted to try it for good reasons or just for that “cool factor”?
There is no denial that Ubuntu made a huge mistake, but it’s not something completely unusual in the computing world. I have installed MS-Windows updates that threw me BSODs or random lockups, which is just about useful as a command prompt for a newbie. Yet, I investigated the issues instead of whining on a public board…
Many people don’t realise that QA is a dirty job. You just CANNOT test every configuration out there. On the bright side, every screwup like this one will lead to better recovery tools. Perhaps you cannot avoid such breakage, but you can build tools to minimise inconvenience.
If you installed MS-Windows only because of this problem, then it’s time to question your commitment to Linux. Did you wanted to try it for good reasons or just for that “cool factor”?
What commitment are you talking about? I’ve been using Linux exclusively for several years now, but I wasn’t aware you had to make a commitment.
What is this, a cult?
several years now but you’re still a beginner on the command line? Venture outside the gui once in a while, homey…some pretty neat stuff out there. 🙂
Where did I say I was a beginner on the command line, homey?
“””If you installed MS-Windows only because of this problem, then it’s time to question your commitment to Linux.”””
I have used and administered Unix for 18 years. I have used Linux for 10. I have used Linux as my primary desktop OS for 9. I really, really, like Unix and Linux.
But this is the silliest assertion I’ve seen on OS News, or anywhere else, in some time.
One does not have to make a “commitment” to Linux, or any other OS for that matter, to use it.
It’s Canonical that screwed up today, not jgotsch’s Faith and Conviction.
Time to question his commitment?
Sometimes the more extremist members of the community can be terribly embarrasing to us “normal” Linux advocates.
Okay, I must admit that “commitment” wasn’t the wisest word to use.
Let me explain: unless you have some interest in OSes or have really nothing to do, you are probably trying an alternative OSes for a reason. Why would you bother to switch if you are happy with your current system?
Giving up an OS because it doesn’t suit your needs is one thing, giving up at the first issue and whining is another. If you don’t bother to persevere, then did you really wanted to change? It doesn’t matter whether it’s Linux, MS-Windows, BeOS, NetBSD or Plan9 : every system got its own quirks which you have to get used to.
In the case of Ubuntu, there’s even a live CD which allows you to access the Internet without reinstalling an OS… Perhaps I am overestimating the audience here, but I suppose that if you can whine here, then you can search forums for your issue. It’s not a question of supporting Canonical; I would hold a similar position for any other system.
Extremist? I just the best OS for my tasks… Dunno from where you got the advocacy part. If anything, I’m doing anti-troll advocacy.
Improved the quality of the post (spelling, grammar…)
Edited 2006-08-22 21:22
>> this is the silliest assertion I’ve seen on OS News, or anywhere else, in some time.
I do not think “commitment to Linux” is the silliest assertion on OS news or anything else.
Someone found Ubuntu critical bug. So he had to change back to Window. He did not try to install any other Linux distro. For him, Window is the most convenient and trusted OS.
Of course, we do not need commitment to use Linux. I am not judging him not having commitment.
But isn’t it true that he does not have any commitment to Linux? For me, I will install other Linux distro.
I doubt it’s the fact that person X or Y reinstalled Windows that pisses Linux “zealots” off.
It’s that somehow, new or non-users of Linux have this frame of mind where they expect Linux to work perfectly all the time regardless of bugs, uncooperative hardware companies, and stupid or careless user error; and if it doesn’t they say L1nuX dr00lz and Windows/MacOS r00lz. But then if they (or someone else) gets a showstopping bug with Windows/MacOS (like, it keeps rebooting every f’ing five minutes like Windows 98 or WindowsXP + a nice little virus did to me) they expect people to suck it up. Those are problems that rebooting, reinstalling, or unquestioning obedience to the Windows religion (and believe me, there are a *lot* more adherents of the Windows religion than the equivalent Linux zealots, both in terms of numbers and percentage) will *not* solve.
Worse, they say things like “the problem with Windows and viruses is that virus writers shouldn’t write viruses”, which is like saying we shouldn’t have police departments but should just rely on everyone obeying the law. Or that “you shouldn’t have to learn to use a computer to use it”, which is equivalent to saying “you shouldn’t have to learn to speak French to speak it”. Regardless of the actual intelligence of the people saying it – and some pretty intelligent people have said it – that is – literally, in the proper sense of the word – retarded.
Now, Microsoft does release at least one good product (Office); Windows is (slowly) improving; and it would be naive to expect marketing to have any resemblance to reality, but with Windows (specifically, the OS, as an OS and not as an applications platform), marketing and reality are in different universes whether the vast majority of userbase realise it or not.
Edited 2006-08-23 16:00
Commitment to Linux?
Come on, it’s software. The commitment flows the other way around, from Ubuntu to its users.
Users owe Ubuntu zip.
Yes the package maintaner is probably human which explains why he failed (no matter the number of code lines involved).
No there is no acceptable justification for releasing into production an update wich turns the system inoperable (from an user point of view) and affects hundreds (if not thounsands) of users. There is something that is called QA and should be in place to avoid such errors.
Anyway I personally have a lot of bonus points on Ubuntu from what I got from it until now, that makes me believe that this error will lead to a quality improvement on the future updates.
Thanks Mark
Breaking the X server on a system that claims to be enterprise ready is something that simply must not happen.
That MS is a crappy company that also releases crappy patches doesn’t change this simple fact. So stop making stupid excuses.
No patches are perfect. There will always be bugs that slip through QA. You hear the same for linux as you do Windows – patches breaking things.
Due to the wide variety of software installed, I always try to wait a couple of days (the urgency of security patches can be alleviated by proper firewalling and sensible usage) to wait and see what pops up on the internet for a given update before applying. This, IMO, is sensible behaviour when you can’t afford for things to break. No matter how much (£1 or £10m) is spent on QA and testing, things will always slip through. No matter what system you use, it’s always prudent to be patient and wait 48hrs to see if there are any known issues published before updating your system.
It’s not so much about the platform, but the severity of the impact on being able to work. A faulty patch can cost you hours of problems and potentially break a critical application you need “right now”.
I got this mindset from a chap at work who’s been around since the days of punch cards. He now manages (among other things) the WSUS service for 200,000 users. Seems like a pragmatic and sensible mindset to me, be your network 1 machine or hundreds of machines.
Edited 2006-08-22 20:24
I have the same faith in canonical as before. Misstakes happen.
Like I said, I am still interested and LOVE Linux. Okay? *buntu is one of the best desktop distributions I’ve ever installed. I’m not saying I’ve never had a problem with Windows. I could have dealt with all kinds of other issues. In fact, Kubuntu didn’t install perfectly. I am knowledgeable enough to know how to install drivers and tweak system settings. But at this point, God forgive me, I am not very familiar with Linux shell commands. I’m trying. I think it’s really cool to type all those nifty commands. I’ve experienced the power and awe of it. But coming from Windows, it is obvious why I would be more comfortable in a GUI…as most people are. But let’s not make excuses here and question my “commitment” to Linux (LOL), or blame my unfamiliarity with the Linux shell. Seriously, when a system service provides patch notification, and installs with a singular click, it absolutely positively should not crash a system. I know it was an accident. I understand. I will probably get a secondary computer and install Kubuntu. <sarcasm>Then I will be able to master the Linux shell and come back here and impress you with my amazing skills.</sarcasm>
<sarcasm>
Glad to hear that you took the oppertunity to learn something instead of taking the easy way out.
</sarcasm>
Yes, when I have actual work to do on my computer, I love to take a couple hours out for the sake of “learning” how to unbreak my system. ?!
Get out of here with your $hitty elitist attitude. Who doesn’t like to learn new things?
Yes, when I have actual work to do on my computer, I love to take a couple hours out for the sake of “learning” how to unbreak my system. ?!
Word.
I, for one, *love* spending 30 min to 1 hour reinstalling Windows every time something cocks it up. Or I could just use Knoppix to fix it (in five minutes), or install Linux, and where will the poor virus writer or script kiddie be then, eh?
Silly me, I forgot. Add another half hour for drivers and 30 minutes to an hour for all the applications. It’s looking better already.
Running
apt-get distupgrade
and
apt-get -f install
fixed the problem for me, eventhough I’d spent quite some time figuring out what was wrong…
But no, there’s no excuse for this to happen…
Luis Villa has a decent commentary:
http://tieguy.org/blog/2006/08/22/still-learning-what-long-term-sup…
He raises a decent question. What freely available Linux distribution is out there that provides stability and a pretty complete set of packages, without you having to go out and install everything yourself? There aren’t any. That’s the problem. Suse Linux was a well supported distribution, but it has now become Novell’s testing doll because they now want to charge people a bundle for putting the word ‘enterprise’ in the product names.
Granted, if this bug was something that was pretty marginal and could only be reproduced in certain circumstances then fine – but this was something that broke an awful lot of stuff and should have been obvious.
Ubuntu has also had run-ins with the way they have configured CUPS:
http://www.kdedevelopers.org/node/2064
And considering that umpteen other distributions have configured CUPS successfully, without impairing functionality, you be the judge.
He raises a decent question. What freely available Linux distribution is out there that provides stability and a pretty complete set of packages, without you having to go out and install everything yourself? There aren’t any. That’s the problem. Suse Linux was a well supported distribution, but it has now become Novell’s testing doll because they now want to charge people a bundle for putting the word ‘enterprise’ in the product names.
Good point. Though I’d still say that OpenSuSE comes closer than others I’ve tried if you want the up-to-date stuff, once you’ve installed Smart and dumped the highly dubious official packager manager since Smart has all those vital but unofficial repositories (multimedia, etc.) already added in and set up for you. I’m finding OpenSuSE almost boring now, which is a good sign it is fairly stable.
I can see that this foobar with Ubuntu must be annoying but it’s hardly the end of the world. They recovered quickly from it and I’m sure they have learned a lesson. Folks are understandably touchy about losing X, though. There was a lot of unhappiness with Debian Unstable a few months ago when an update shot down the X server on that. All it took to get it going again was reconfiguring just one symlink, but that’s not the point, is it?
Just my 2 cents, but if I had to run important servers I wouldn’t choose Ubuntu. It is too new all round, too unproven, their staff is fairly small and there is too much hype involved. Maybe in a couple of years, when they’ve grown a little and shown they can walk the walk. Until then, if it had to be free server stuff, Debian Stable for me.
I’ve used Windows 2000 since it was released and I still use it. Not a single update have ever caused any problem for me.
Obviously Ubuntu needs to seriously rethink their release policy. Maybe for a smaller issue I could cut Canonical some slack but this particular incident is a MAJOR issue, stuff like this must NEVER happen. Linux will never gain any serious market share if they let stuff like this fly.
All the people who are trying to make excuses are just being ridiculous and they give Linux-folks a bad reputation. Nobody likes a stubborn zealot.
Not a single Ubuntu update has ever caused me any problem. Unfortunately you and I don’t speak for everyone.
It was the only update which was such a pain-in-the-ass since I use Dapper (fully since Dapper beta or so).
Such a bug is ok for edgy which is in development, but for dapper…
Anecdotal. I clearly remember my business partner who was (and still is) a win2k user loosing few days of work caused by an update rocketing his CPU usage to 100%, rendering the machine unusable. IIRC 10% of users (according to MS) applying the patch were affected.
Another patch reversed the Hebrew text on the taskbar, making it unreadable.
Before calling others zealots, please check yourself.
Another patch reversed the Hebrew text on the taskbar, making it unreadable.
Dies laughing — I’m having such a Good Omens moment.*
(Because, seriously, if one were an “Islamist Jihadista” something like that would be a brilliant way to really bring the West to its knees.)
—
*
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0441003257/sr=8-2/qid=1156290494/r…
Giving up an OS because it doesn’t suit your needs is one thing, giving up at the first issue and whining is another. If you don’t persevere, then did you really wanted change?
Perhaps I am overstimating the audience here, but I suppose that if you can whine here, then you can search forums for your issue.
Please God, make it stop…
Note to self: Linux is a cult.
Seriously. Windows was working fine. I installed Kubuntu for *fun*. I don’t care about change. Everyone has a different threshhold for “pain”. If I had more spare time and less obligation to get things done, I would have gladly worked on it all night, and then today I would have read on the ubuntu forum how to fix the issue (though I understand that the type of video display driver you have installed could complicate things a bit)…all for the sake of learning. Mind you, there is plenty to learn while Linux is functioning properly.
However, that isn’t the case. I’m busy. I have things I need done yesterday. I can do them on Windows or Linux. But I don’t have as much time as I’d like to troubleshoot bugs…especially the critical ones. Oh, and by the looks of this forum and about half a dozen others, I’m not the only “whiner”.
Now then, I think you have some bad ingrams you need purged. Go down to your nearest Church of Scientology and give them all of your money…
“””Please God, make it stop…
Note to self: Linux is a cult.
“””
Nah. We’re just playing that favorite game of OS fans everywhere. It’s called “Blame The Victim”. 😉
Seriously, I hope you aren’t too discouraged. I think I’ve made enough scathing remarks about Canonical in this thread, so I won’t repeat them here. But I’m with you, buddy.
One might hope that Canonical would find this embarrassing enough that new (and hopefully, lasting) policies will get put into place.
That said, it might not be a bad idea to study the command line. Unfortunately, even the most nicely gift-wrapped of the current Linux distros will have you dropping to the command line from time to time to accomplish this or that.
Besides, it’s fun and powerful once you get the hang of it. No slight on Gnome/KDE/XFce/Other, but Unix’s/Linux’s command line is more mature than its GUIs.
But about your level of commitment. Tsk! Tsk! We simply must do something about that. If it doesn’t improve soon, I’m afraid we’ll have to resort to the Black Room. We hate using that. We really do. But you have to understand… it’s for your own good… 😉
Edited 2006-08-22 22:28
Wouldn’t it be possible for Ubuntu devs to make the updater tool check whether the new configuration can start X successfully, and, in case of failure, revert to the old config?
After taking a bit more than a brief look at this bug, yet not an exhaustive one:
I found that every major GPU mfg failed: Intel, ATI, and nVidia.
Did this update work for anyone’s config? Must’ve at least worked for the maintainer as one would like to be able to assume that he had it running on his machine BEFORE packaging and shipping it as an update.
Actually now that I’m thinking of it too, in one of the discussions, apparently using forcedvesa, or already just using the vesa driver worked and was being pushed as a failover mechanism… (Does this mean that the Xorg package maintainer(s) run vesa drivers?! These guys need a serious upgrade in that case or need to go work on some other non-graphical package…)
(bugfix mentions that change borks PCI for the vast majority of users, so it was reverted…)
what was the .3 update for in the first place. ubuntu security notices didn’t have anything but it was literaly no more than 5 min after the update came out. so i looked at secunia and it said x.org had an unpatched hole reported on the 11th so I thought it covered that. but USN still doesn’t say anything. Im awsuming now that its not security related. how do i or where do i go to find out what non security updates fix?
Seriously, what’s up with all the damn whining? It was a bug. One that affected a small fraction of users. This shit happens every now and then. If you’ve been using Linux as your primary desktop for more than a month and you get freaked out because you’re looking at a bash prompt, please do everyone a favor and don’t use Linux.
And for all the “this kind of thing never happens with REAL enterprise distros” people, please look at RHEL 4. This beast shipped with the 2.6.9 kernel, many many months after knowing that the i810 driver was severely broken. And guess what? RedHat doesn’t upgrade versions of packages, so if you happen to have the i810 chip, f–k off, cuz that kernel ain’t changin. For example #2 I refer you to the horror that is Zend updater on SUSE. At least with Ubuntu, you can INSTALL updates.
I’m no Ubuntu fanboy but you guys are way the hell outta line.
It was mentioned that there was uproar earlier when Xorg broke in Debian Unstable. That’s exactly why I use Debian Testing. Such a thing is to be expected in unstable, as it goes through ABI changes or what have you, but terrible gaffs like that won’t make it through to Testing.
Ubuntu lacks Testing (note the uppercase) which is why I can’t use it. I don’t want to be static for 6 months waiting for the next release, but using Ubuntu’s development branch (currently Edgy) is not tenable, especially not early in a cycle. Of course it’s even more jarring to hear this happened on Ubuntu’s Stable branch.
Too bad Debian isn’t quite a good at newb/desktop friendliness, or one could use this incident to try and get everyone to switch back to the mothership
I’m a Ubuntu user. I really like it. Lots. And I spend quite a lot of time trying to persuade other people to try it.
But if someone I had persuaded to try Ubuntu had this happen to them, you can bet they’d boot straight back into Windows, and never touch this Linux rubbish again. (And it’s no good arguing that “they didn’t pay for it”, because in their mind they didn’t pay for Windows either; it was just included in the price of their PC.)
Seriously, I can’t for the life of me understand how a massive bug like this got out. It’s made me seriously wonder about whether Ubuntu is the best distro for me.
But it’s raised a more serious and fundemental point as well. When was the last time Windows dropped you at the command line? When was the last time Windows refused to give you a GUI at all?
The bottom line is this: X should NEVER EVER EVER EVER EVER just fail to start up, no matter what. Even if it means coming up with a 256 colour 640×480 VESA screen as a last resort, that’s still a million times better than dumping the user at the command line. I just can’t understand why something like this hasn’t been implemented, it can’t be that difficult if Windows manages it. At the moment, something as simple as a typo such as “nvidai” in the xorg.conf file will result in X failing, and our new user never being seen again.
(Of course the very fact that the new user has to go messing about with xorg.conf at all, or at the very least the command line if they happen to find out about nvidia-xconfig, is a disgrace. And God help them if they want to get an external monitor working. X configuration, and the complete lack of decent autodetection and graphical tools, is an embarrassment. I can’t understand why more resources aren’t devoted to fixing what is a huge hole in the usability of the Linux desktop.)
Edited 2006-08-23 02:04
I’m an Ubuntu Linux user and I have been quite happy with it, bumps and all. Still am. But.
This kind of screw up is simply not tolerable. This is one of those things where you *know* that it was not tested much, even though I would guess over 90% of users would feel the pinch if it broke.
I had horrible experiences with Debian, in regards to X. For me, this is the first time I’ve had issue with Ubuntu 6.06.
Of course, I would like, someday, to go off on a X rant. Most problems people have getting Linux up and running or staying the course are X related, insofar as I can tell.
X is problematic. But that still is no excuse for someone not checking out such a fundemental package.
I just read about another possible bug that allegedly makes it dangerous using Ubuntu on core dual powered notebooks.
http://osdir.com/Article9206.phtml
Stinks like an hardware problem. Dell and Sony had to recall millions of battery.
http://news.zdnet.co.uk/0,39020330,39280956,00.htm
And as the osdir article points to a Dell laptop computer problem…
http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=186003
“I’ve been using Ubuntu for over a year now and everything has been great. I just received a new laptop:
Dell Inspiron 9400E1705,
Intel Core Duo
17″ UWXGA screen,
NVIDIA 7800GS.”
And the dell page :
http://www.dellbatteryprogram.com/
And in the list we can see :
“Inspiron: 500M, 510M, 600M, 700M, 710M, 6000, 6400, 8500, 8600, 9100, 9200, 9300, 9400, E1505, E1705”
Is ubuntu guilty, here ?
I too got bitten(sp?) by this bug. Ouch. Unfortunately I assumed that something had gone amok with my ubuntu due to having had precariously little free space on my primary partition-incorrect diagnosis, incorrect attempts to resolve-frustration.
When i booted my machine yesterday, prior to the update, I noticed a problem with Xgl- I eneded up in a endless gdm loop-ok, i thought, i fix this later and i commented out the lines i added to /etc/X11/gdm/gdm.conf-custom. i then restared gdm and logged into my desktop-then the update. I used my computer for about 3 hours-no problems. After having played a video interwiew which i downloaded from the internet in firefox -i got an error message from gxine stating that it could not write a file to the hard drive- damn forgot to move the film I recorded from dvb-c to another partiton-last night. I moved the file and decided to reboot for safe measure. I then rebooted. Boom no X.
Ok -no problem-problem solving modus
Although I am still new to the debian world-I have years of experience administering servers and desktops under various different flavors of Linux-sure I can solve this. Two problems had already happened-1) Xgl was playing flunky,2) I had precariously little space on the hard drive when I did the upgrade. So what might have happened ? what might be the cause. I started by apt-get removing my Xgl/compiz stuff. hmmm no difference. I man’ed apt-get/dpkg for a while trying to figure out how to see if perhpas something had botched during the update. Spent quite a while doing this-no luck-apt-get/dpkg both told me no errors. Ok I then booted another desktop(sabayon gentoo) to verify my graphics card was ok. Yup no problem there-so WTF no devices found!. Then I went back to ubuntu and manually removed everything xorg related(nvidia-glx, xserver-xorg-driver* xserver-xorg-input*, xserver-xorg-core, xserver-xorg). And now…I reinstalled everything after having deleted the apt cache. Download…unpack…configure…install. hmmmmno difference. Ok now time to study the /var/log/Xorg.0.log…man’ing the help pages for X, xinit,startx….X -probeonly, X -scanpci…wait a minute X scanpci is not finding the friggin nvidia graphics card(now i know that nvidia driver is not the problem, neither is nvidia-glx). But hey lspci finds it hmmm. Reboot into gentoo, stop xdm, try X -scanpci-hmm all the PCI buses being enumerated…strace -o trace.log X -scanpic. Now reboot ubuntu. strace -o trace.log X -scanpci. Mount the gentoo partitoon from inside ubuntu- opened both trace.log files in editors in 2 different consoles. compare…contrast…compare..contrast. Ubuntu’s trace.log reports- =0 Domains found. hmmmm so thats why it is not enumerating all the PCI buses. Double chek if scanpci…libscanpci.o are all where they should and are properly linked…(ldd) compare with gentoo……damn they are.
Break time. Collect pulled hair from the floor around my desk. Years of slowly built confidence and sense of competency vanishing in mid-air. 6 hours later. Copy the entirety(except dev/proc/sys/mnt/media)
mkdir /media/backup/ubuntu && cd / && for i in ‘bin boot etc home initrd lib opt root sbin srv tmp usr var’; do cp -ax $i /media/backup/ubuntu/; done
of ubuntu into directory on 80 gb partiton on second drive. For good measure I went ahead and copied the sabayon into another directory on said partition. Freind comming home from work stopped off to meet me in a cafe and handed 6.06 Dapper LTS fresh burnt on CD. Went home. Boot from new Ubuntu CD. Deleted all the partitons on first drive.(i made backups of everything on the first harddrive-because sabayon had messed up the partiton table-happened 2 days before so I was looking for an excuse to wipe the drive). Make new partions -now ubuntu will have 9 Gb as opposed to 4.5 Gb. more space. renmaed all of the mdia mount points to something usefull. Reboot.
Next:
sudo passwd
Nano ~/.bashrc
cp /etc/sources.list /etc/sources.list.orig
cp /mnt/backup/ubuntu/apt/sources.list /etc/apt/
apt-get update
cp -ax /media/backup/ubuntu/home/username/.mozilla/ .
apt-get install lame lame-extras libdvdcss2 libdvdread3 flashplugin-nonfree w32codecs libxine-extracodecs gxine xine-ui totem-xine kaffeine-xine amarok-xine k3b totem-xine-firefox-plugin kdemultimedia-kio-plugins kdebase-kio-plugins mplayer
apt-get install gstreamer0.10-pitfdll ffmpeg gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad-multiverse gstreamer0.10-plugins-ugly-multiverse
apt-get install aspell-de aspell-de-alt ingerman iogerman myspell-de-de openoffice.org-hyphenation-de openoffice.org-thesaurus-de wngerman wogerman dict-de-en dict-freedict-deu-eng dict-freedict-eng-deu openoffice.org-l10n-de abiword banshee last-exit ocrad gocr kooka abiword-help libjpeg-progs netpbm transfig abiword-plugins abiword-plugins-gnome banshee-daap dict dict-gcide libnss-mdns ttf-bitstream-vera ttf-xfree86-nonfree
apt-get install nvidia-glx
All multimedia codes, browser plugin, german dictionary support for all programs…
still have to copy some other $HOME/. directories over…took 30 seconds to setup printer…copied over channels.dvb from kaffeine .kde directory(digital tv works)….multmedia is all setup…still need to copy over evolution, enemy-territory(wouldn’t want to miss that), sill need to setup Xgl again
…..
insert
deb http://de.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ dapper universe multiverse
deb-src http://de.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ dapper universe multiverse
deb http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu dapper-backports main restricted universe multiverse
deb-src http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu dapper-backports main restricted universe multiverse
deb http://packages.freecontrib.org/ubuntu/plf dapper free non-free
deb-src http://packages.freecontrib.org/ubuntu/plf dapper free non-free
deb http://www.burtonini.com/debian/ experimental/
deb-src http://www.burtonini.com/debian/ experimental/
deb http://ubuntu.compiz.net/ dapper main
deb http://xgl.compiz.info/ dapper main
deb http://www.beerorkid.com/compiz dapper main
deb http://media.blutkind.org/xgl/ dapper main
into /etc/apt/sources.list to get all of the stuff listed here working
apt-get install xserver-xgl
apt-get update
apt-get upgrade
apt get install compiz compiz-gnome cgwd
nano /etc/X11/gdm/gdm.conf-custom
towards the end:
[servers]
0=Xgl
[server-Xgl]
name=Xgl server
command=/usr/bin/Xgl -fullscreen -br -accel xv:fbo -accel glx:pbuffer
flexible=true
create desktop link to little metacity-compiz switch script:
/usr/local/bin/toggle-compiz.sh
#!/bin/bash
if ps -A | grep -e “compiz.real$” > /dev/null; then
killall gnome-window-decorator
metacity –replace &
else
gnome-window-decorator &
compiz –replace gconf &
xmodmap -e “keycode 22 = BackSpace Delete”
fi
restart gdm-log out ctrl-alt-f1, log in sudo /etc/init.d/gdm/restart
log into gnome
open terminal :
gnome-window-decorator &
compiz –replace gconf decoration wobbly fade minimize cube rotate zoom scale move resize place switcher trailfocus water bs neg &
now the next time you log out and back in you can just switch between metacity and compiz by double clicking on the link you created to the script on your desktop
New install took 90 minutes. Troubleshooting took 6 hours. Never even occured it might just be an ubuntu bug…lol
I suggest that everyone, who’s screaming how such bug should not happen, _volunteers_ and becomes a _tester_ for the future versions of the X.Org packages.
Rodrigo did test the package:
Unfortunately I am not able to reproduce this locally, on any of my machines. The latest package upload of xorg-server has two patches that might be the responsible for this issue. I have packaged two different experimental versions of xorg-server, each one removing one of the mentioned patches.
From the above quote one can deduce, that it does not affect all machines, only certain ones. Rodrigo just happens NOT to have such a machine.
I think everyone here, including me
agrees that more testing would be better. More testing on a more diverse hardware.
Since people complaining here apparently _do_ have such hardware, on which the upgrade caused problems. Hence it would be good to be able to test new packages on such hardware.
So why, instead of complaining and screaming, don’t you help Ubuntu to avoid such problem in the future?
For the record, I have not installed upgraded packages, while the problematic package was in the repository. Hence, maybe by luck, I experienced no problems.
It just makes me feel sad, that people create such a noise about something, which they probably got for free (in the monetary sense). Yes, non-working X is rather uncomfortable, but it’s not the end of the world. And the OS is still working. You just don’t have X. So the OS as such is NOT broken.
Yes, non-working X is rather uncomfortable, but it’s not the end of the world. And the OS is still working. You just don’t have X. So the OS as such is NOT broken.
I’m sorry, but you’re wrong. To the vast majority of people, if the GUI doesn’t come up then the OS is broken, end of story. It doesn’t matter to them that the kernel is still running perfectly happily — they can’t read their e-mail or browse the web (and no, I’m not about to recommend Pine or Lynx), so it’s broken. That’s that.
If Windows failed to start up properly, and left someone staring at a C:/> prompt, it would be reasonable for them to say, “Windows is broken”, wouldn’t it? So why should we hold ourselves to a lower standard?
Sure, you and I, and probably most OSNews readers would be able to fix things from the command line, but I’m damn sure my mother wouldn’t be able to. And neither should she be expected to.
“””It just makes me feel sad, that people create such a noise about something, which they probably got for free (in the monetary sense). Yes, non-working X is rather uncomfortable, but it’s not the end of the world. And the OS is still working. You just don’t have X. So the OS as such is NOT broken.”””
I think you are missing the point of many of the posts.
It is not so much personal inconvenience that some of us are concerned about. It’s the fact that Ubuntu has pitched itself as the distro for newbies and been quite successful, indeed, with its publicity. This is well and good.
However, it also means that Ubuntu:
1. Carries a huge responsibility to protect the reputation of Linux on the desktop.
2. Has a user base which is *least* able to deal with X failing. (And to a newbie, cut off from the internet, that *is* a totally broken machine.)
Ubuntu is a commercial company, and is well funded. It is not too much to expect them to have a standardized QA process in place. Not having one would be a flagrant violation of their responsibility to their users, and of the trust of the community. Individual developers testing on the machines they happen to have handy, and then pushing the patch out is not sufficient, as this incident makes painfully clear, though that should have been quite obvious before this. “Works for me” is not proper QA.
Community testing is a good thing, and can shake out bugs not easily found internally. But Canonical, the commercial Linux company, has both the responsibility and the means to have a formal testing procedure involving a range of hardware, that *all* patches go through. Even community testers have the right to expect a certain level of QA on patches released by Canonical. The primary responsibility for QA lies with Canonical and not with the community.
Being “free as in beer” is part and parcel of Canonical’s business model. So please do not tell users, who have been sold Ubuntu with an explicit sales pitch of Ubuntu being *free forever*, that they have no right to complain because they got it for free.
Non-Ubuntu using community members have a right to complain, as well. Ubuntu has done a great job of promoting itself. And that is fine. But it has also had the effect of crowding out other worthy newbie distros. Some of us have recommended Ubuntu to friends placing, to some extent, our own reputations on the line. Ubuntu is carrying the flag of the Linux community, and it is perfectly reasonable to have substantial concern if it becomes apparent that Canonical is taking a cavalier attitude and manner with a reputation that the community has worked over the years to build.
There is far more to this picture than petty whining about being inconvenienced, as you seem to imply.
Edited 2006-08-23 17:53
It’s funny how many people are so fanatical about Linux that they no longer think to reason.
We aren’t talking about viruses crashing your system. This is about a supposedly routine patch that managed to crash X. Not on a miniscule number of systems, but a large number of systems.
The point is that for the *NEW* desktop linux distribution user, getting left at the Linux shell is not acceptable. If this were a distro like Slack, or Gentoo, or FreeBSD, or Debian, etc., I probably would have used the shell to perform much of the install and configuration process anyway. So I probably wouldn’t bother “whining” because I’d already know how to begin resolving the bug.
The great thing about *buntu, is that it is aimed at the desktop user. Nearly 100% of the install process is graphical. KDE or Gnome are installed by default. Why do you think that is? It’s to make using Linux convenient. To attract *NEW* users. Common users. People who are used to a GUI. If you are a hot shot user and never depended upon X, congratulations on being cooler than everybody else.
But you can’t disagree with something so obvious. I’ve had a driver screw up Windows in the past, so I booted into safe mode and guess what, I was able to roll-back the offending driver…in a GUI! If Windows ever booted into a command prompt, unless you know how to use the recovery console, yes, of course things could also be just as bad for users.
We are talking about an X update that was rolled out through the patch management system. And it left many users at the shell. Not a “gee, this looks like the driver I’m supposed to install…whoooops!”
Everybody understands that to err is human. Who could disagree? That doesn’t negate the fact that X should never, never, never leave you at the shell. Especially not after a “routine” update. It’s not whining. It’s constructive criticism. If anybody’s whining, it’s the Linux zealots.