eWeek’s review of the latest Vista build is pretty positive: “On Aug. 25, Microsoft released to testers Vista Build 5536, the latest in a long line of sneak peeks at Microsoft’s forthcoming desktop operating system. eWEEK Labs’ tests of Build 5536 show that the operating system is gaining speed and losing quirks as its release nears.” They also made a pretty screenshot gallery. In addition, everybody’s favourite Microsoft Apple Microsoft zealot is also positive about this build.
The fastest AND the most secure OS ever! How will we get along without it?
<sarcasm> It’s true! Amazing, 5 years of work for this! Maybe in this build it can run in a 2Ghz processor and less than 1Gb of RAM. </sarcasm>
It’s kicking ass on an Athlon 1600+ with 512MB of ram here, much to my dismay. Memory usage is pegged at about 65%, but the responsiveness is very good. Aero works well too.
Yeah right. Now try to use applications for true work, a Office Suite, an IDE, Email Client, AIM client, and so on..and tell me that 512MB ram is enough!
Can’t help you on the IDE, but I’ve got Gaim, Word 2007, Firefox, and Sonicstage ripping a cd in the background with little, if any, noticable slowdown.
Not that I’m arguing that it’s high end, mind you, but it *is* quite usable on this box. On my real machine it’d probably scream.
Edited 2006-08-28 19:39
Can’t help you on the IDE, but I’ve got Gaim, Word 2007, Firefox, and Sonicstage ripping a cd in the background with little, if any, noticable slowdown
Wow, man, you really kick ass with a couple of tasks active. I wonder how bad was the monotasking world of Windows before Vista.
I dont know about you, but when Im opening Firefox + Netbeans + YM + Outlook + Antivirus + Skype + MSN my computer lags, and its a Windows XP one with 512MB, with no ‘girly’ looks.
kozo wrote(emphasis mine):
“I dont know about you, but when Im opening Firefox + Netbeans + YM + Outlook + Antivirus + Skype + MSN my computer lags, and its a Windows XP one with 512MB, with no ‘girly’ looks.”
Check your task manager and look for Java…
It’s probably the thing that’s taking most of your RAM and CPU Cycles(Happpens to me in both Windows 2000 and Ubuntu)
kozo wrote(emphasis mine):
“I dont know about you, but when Im opening Firefox + Netbeans + YM + Outlook + Antivirus + Skype + MSN my computer lags, and its a Windows XP one with 512MB, with no ‘girly’ looks.”
Check your task manager and look for Java…
It’s probably the thing that’s taking most of your RAM and CPU Cycles(Happpens to me in both Windows 2000 and Ubuntu)
Tell me that 512 MB is enough to do all of that on a modern Linux distro.
Oh, wait — you can’t.
You’re right, 512 isn’t “enough to do all of that” on a modern Linux distro.
256MB is.
Wrong.
I’ve been testing out Ubuntu, Suse, and Xandros over the past month or so, and on a box w/384M, Linux begins swapping almost immediately. Open more than a couple of apps and it’s swapped out almost 200M.
Wrong.
I’ve been testing out Ubuntu, Suse, and Xandros over the past month or so, and on a box w/384M, Linux begins swapping almost immediately. Open more than a couple of apps and it’s swapped out almost 200M
Try again. Linux isn’t confined to Ubuntu, Suse, or Xandros. I have been using Linux on an old laptop with 256MB of memory for years now without an issue. It is very usable.
Wrong.
I’ve been testing out Ubuntu, Suse, and Xandros over the past month or so, and on a box w/384M, Linux begins swapping almost immediately. Open more than a couple of apps and it’s swapped out almost 200M.
Ahh.
That’s why I use Slackware + KDE.
Edited 2006-08-28 23:54
Linux will swap unused code and data and fill your memory with disk cache. Linux configures this with the swappiness kernel parameter (default value of 60). To swap less:
echo 10 > /proc/sys/vm/swappiness
but it’s recommended you don’t change the defaults.
To see how much physical memory your really consuming:
free -m | grep cache: | awk ‘{print $3″MB”}’
That’s because of the way Linux uses swap, i.e. whenever it has any. It’s the same when it reports the memory used: uninformed users often scream “OMG! Linux is using 400M of my 512MB!” but take away the memory used for buffers, and if you’ve got 2 or 3 KDE apps + Firefox running, you end up with about 300MB *free*.
Nevertheless, it doesn’t slow down unless there’s something seriously wrong.
Oh please. Ubuntu and SLED 10 are the only distros that can come close to competing with OSs like Mac OS X and Vista and both of those distros are bloated and definitely not responsive.
Don’t bother trying to convince people that using Damn Small Linux will allow you to run all those apps with 256MB of RAM. Those kind of distros will never be popular among home pc users so it’s irrelevant.
In any case, the comparison is difficult. Open Office may use little memory but it’s also terrible. Especially in comparison to MS Office 2007. Likewise, Photoshop uses a lot of memory but it’s better than anything linux offers like GIMP. I’d rather spend 30 dollars to buy an extra 256MB of RAM and use good software than be a cheap ass and just have to be content with crappy software.
Vista and Mac OS X look better, have more support from software and hardware vendors, are easier to use and have better software than Linux. That’s why they people use them at home. Ubuntu and SLED10 were supposed to make huge in-roads for home PCs but they haven’t. The avg PC user doesn’t care and will never care. By this time next year things will be the same…everyone will be using some OS from Apple or MS at home. The truth hurts, I know.
Oh please. Ubuntu and SLED 10 are the only distros that can come close to competing with OSs like Mac OS X and Vista
In what aspect?
Vista isn’t even out yet, and by the time consumers see it SLED 10.5 or 11 will be out.
and both of those distros are bloated and definitely not responsive.
couldn’t say, but neither of them requires the 700MB of Vista. XP on this laptop is definitely *not* responsive, and that’s without taking into account the effects of 6 months growth of the registry.
Don’t bother trying to convince people that using Damn Small Linux will allow you to run all those apps with 256MB of RAM. Those kind of distros will never be popular among home pc users so it’s irrelevant.
I wasn’t referring to DSL, I was referring to SuSE 10. Not as fast as Gentoo, but then SLED hasn’t been recompiled to only work on an Athlon XP with -O3 optimisation.
DSL et al are for users with less than 256MB.
In any case, the comparison is difficult. Open Office may use little memory but it’s also terrible.
I keep hearing this; do you people believe that the more you repeat a biased value statement, the closer it will get to becoming reality? There is only ONE feature that isn’t in my copies of OO.org that I’d like to see incorporated from Vista.
Especially in comparison to MS Office 2007.
Right, because 100% of people use 100% of Office features, 100% of the time.
Likewise, Photoshop uses a lot of memory but it’s better than anything linux offers like GIMP.
If GIMP is enough for the people who use it, then frankly, who cares if your copy of Photoshop resurrects the dead?
I’d rather spend 30 dollars to buy an extra 256MB of RAM and use good software than be a cheap ass and just have to be content with crappy software.
Bundling two insults with a value judgement isn’t a value add.
Let me tell you something about “being a cheap ass.” The Americans spent billions developing a pen that would work in space.
The Russians used pencils.
Vista and Mac OS X look better,
Which amply demonstrates the sophistication of your argument so far.
have more support from software and hardware vendors,
and whose fault is that? Linux has more support from OS vendors and users, and (for home users at least) the support they can get from the community is typically more clued-up than that they can get for money.
You can use more hardware and software with Mac OS than with Linux? Really? Are you sure?
Ubuntu and SLED10 were supposed to make huge in-roads for home PCs but they haven’t.
So was Windows Vista. Clue: Vista isn’t even out yet, and SLED’s been out two minutes. Besides, “Enterprises” as in “Enterprise Desktop” are not “homes”.
The avg PC user doesn’t care and will never care. By this time next year things will be the same…everyone will be using some OS from Apple or MS at home.
Hmm, so is that “everyone” except the ones using Linux at home? Then that isn’t “everyone”, is it?
The truth hurts, I know.
Yeah, you must really be sore by now. You haven’t come up with a single cogent argument; no doubt you think of yourself as an informed, sensible, intelligent computer user who happens to use Windows as his OS of choice for good and sensible reasons. Maybe you are, but instead you’ve come across as just another whiny-ass Bill Gates’ arse-sucking bitch who’s made the mistake of thinking he can take the moral high-ground just because he’s in the majority.
Clarification: Linux community support is typically more clued up than support *Windows* home users can get for money.
Clarification: Linux community support is typically more arrogant then windows home users are used too
“Linux community support is typically more arrogant then windows home users are used too”
i use to run gentoo linux and i had a guy on IRC who was with me for 2 hours straight helping me out. It’s stupid questions that pisses people off.
“ummm yeah…I don’t know how to use fdisk…what is partitions? i hate linux…help me plz”
“Clarification: Linux community support is typically more arrogant then windows home users are used too”
Because Microsofts techsupport is really usefull for end-users…
It’s pretty obvious that you have never had to deal with Microsoft support on any level.
Not usually, I fix my own problems. When I have however, I have found them no worse than anybody else. Technet and forums are where I get my info. I think it’s obvious that you have a chip on your shoulder, you make assumptions, without enough data
“I think it’s obvious that you have a chip on your shoulder, you make assumptions, without enough data”
No, I’m merely stating that, as with most gigantic corproations, the end-user support is severely lacking.
That last paragraph was unnecessarily explicit.
Doesn’t mean you’re not right in most of the others, of course.
😉
By the way, I’m an average PC user, and I have never owned a Windows PC. So to the joker who thinks you already need Damn Small Linux if you have less than 256 MB of RAM, please refrain from generalizing statements about which users are “average”. An “averager” guy than myself you won’t find, and if you put me in front of a Windows PC, as a Gnome user I’ll get lost. And installing software on any other system than mainstream Linux (well, I can do with OSX) tires me too.
Some Windows fans demand instant revolution from the Linux crowd. Well you won’t get it. It took even MS a while to get to world domination. Linux, unlike MS, is not even aiming for that.
Hehe preach that shit, brother! Couldn’t agree more. Of course you’ve been modded into hell because the Windows mod trolls are out, but you’re nevertheless dead on.
Thanks for that!
“Yeah, you must really be sore by now. You haven’t come up with a single cogent argument; no doubt you think of yourself as an informed, sensible, intelligent computer user who happens to use Windows as his OS of choice for good and sensible reasons. Maybe you are, but instead you’ve come across as just another whiny-ass Bill Gates’ arse-sucking bitch who’s made the mistake of thinking he can take the moral high-ground just because he’s in the majority.”
See everyone! A bunch of unhinged morons have hi-jacked the Linux community. These are the same people building the Linux kernel and shoving the GPL down our throats.
Thanks God for Windows!
You call yourself LinuxH8R. That says all one needs to know.
Ubuntu and SLED 10 are the only distros that can come close to competing with OSs like Mac OS X and Vista
Not really. Debian’s goal, for example, is to provide a free, universal operating system. Mac OS X and Windows Vista don’t even come close to competing with that.
If you mean what distributions compete with Windows Vista and Mac OS X on enterprises with professional support and on the desktop then IMO only SLED and RHEL are there. But others may consider Ubuntu as well.
As far as being responsive, Mac OS X and Windows Vista are not exactly the most responsive operating systems made. Are you sure you know what you’re talking about?
Especially in comparison to MS Office 2007.
Which doesn’t exist yet.
Also, one of the two most important things that keep OpenOffice.org from being adopted in enterprises is the cost of retraining users to use a new program. But now, thanks to Microsoft, it might be cheaper to migrate to OpenOffice.org than to Office 2007. So even if you think Office’s new interface is great, it could be the best thing that ever happened to OpenOffice.org.
Vista and Mac OS X look better,
Completely subjective. I strongly disagree.
have more support from software and hardware vendors,
Linux supports more hardware than OS X and Vista.
“Also, one of the two most important things that keep OpenOffice.org from being adopted in enterprises is the cost of retraining users to use a new program. But now, thanks to Microsoft, it might be cheaper to migrate to OpenOffice.org than to Office 2007. So even if you think Office’s new interface is great, it could be the best thing that ever happened to OpenOffice.org.”
LOL
It’s funny when people try to pass off wishful thinking as objective analysis.
Linux supports more hardware than OS X and Vista.
i’m fairly certain that isn’t so, at all. think winmodems.
maybe you want to say the linux kernel source tree contains more drivers than vista bundles … so what? for the people who install o.s, inserting the vendor driver disk is a small thing.
The comment about supporting more hardware is true. It supports many different architectures each with all their specific components.
Windows only runs on x86 and x86_64. OSX only on ppc, ppc64, x86, x86_64.
Linux is getting more and more viable on the desktop, it’s not there for everyone, but no one should say it’s useless (no one should say windows is useless too, it has major issues with spyware though). Generally with the latest ubuntu I see all the hardware automatically setup.
To stay on topic, an upgrade to windows is long over due. Windows XP is over 5 years old, it’s amazing that it has survived so long. There has been a few service packs and lots of patches, so windows XP is very stable and has very small requirements (if you don’t have a virus, spware or adware).
If GIMP is enough for the people who use it, then frankly, who cares if your copy of Photoshop resurrects the dead?
In that case, my friend, I believe (but only in this case…) people would be *really* interested in that little copy of Photoshop that happens to resurrect ppl.
😉
Until people like Genghis Khan got resurrected, anyway.
Oh I love these people who just have their opinion and no clue about what they are really saying. So you say it’s impossible to work smooth on a linux desktop with multiple apps open and 512 MB of RAM? Are you sure?
No.
I use a modern Linux distribution (http://www.archlinux.org – you can’t get more modern than that according to the software’s versions). I have 512 MB of RAM. Not because I’m a masochist, I couldn’t afford more, or anything else. I just never had to think about additional RAM.
About the apps that run when I develop software: Many terminals, xchat2 for lazyness, Firefox with many tabs on multiple windows open (I like to have everything present when I need it), Tomcat running in the background, MySQL too, Eclipse for development, deploying on my tomcat server for testing (with mysql). Don’t forget the music player for some chill tunes in the background.
Forget about various other software like apache webserver etc., because it is not really in use and can be swapped out.
Now I never had any swapping problems… It just worked.
But on my gf’s pc, where I also sometimes do developing, it didn’t work out. Eclipse and some other apps and switching would swap. That’s because she only had 256 MB. So I upgraded to 512, too.
So I can tell you, yes, 512 MB is enough to do all of that on a modern Linux distro. And I doubt any average user would have more apps and windows open than me while I do that work. Sometimes gimp is running on the 4th virtual desktop, too, as I just forgot it there. It’s when you use software suspend and never actually reboot, it happens to have some apps forgotten on other virtual desktops.. I just think about, if Windows (any version) would have 512 MB of RAM and an uptime (not AC power uptime, I only turn this one on for work) of 40 days, well, would it work? I can’t say anything about that to not do the same mistake as you have done.
Eclipse won’t run well on that machine if you have it as the only task running with an OS that didn’t timeshare.
Other IDE’s, such as VS2005, will run well on that machine with a doggy OS. It runs almost usably on a PII.
<joke>Does AIM run in under a Gig of RAM though?</joke>
Other IDE’s, such as VS2005, will run well on that machine with a doggy OS. It runs almost usably on a PII.
I’d really want that PII. I’m using it regularly on a 2800+ with 2gigs with very many things disabled and sometimes it still gets slow. I can also make it simply terminate every now and then just by editing a fairly simple dialog. VS2003 and even VS6 are more usable, by miles.
For serious power-users, the protected-mode IE will be compelling – imagine feeling Really Safe.
For Intel( or even AMD )(( or even any PC maker )), they need Vista, so they need better hardware !
Strategically, you can search Amazon on CO-OPETITION to locate Brandenburger & Nalebuff’s concise game-theory-meets-reality masterwork. Microsoft is thus a complementor to Intel when they create demand for more powerful hardware. By imaginary contrast, Intel would consider it HOSTILE for Microsoft to go LEAN-and-mean, it’s the nice-features-requiring-upgrade which makes it a COMPLEMENTOR relationship.
This release is seeming like a glacier. Slow, big, yet unstoppable, and capable of changing the landscape around it. It’ss get here eventually and things should be interesting.
I grinned at your description of Thurott. Also at this sentence: “Though the three times performance improvement baloney you might have read elsewhere is not only impossible but untrue.” I like how he distinguishes such claims from the impossible, yet true ones
I’m pretty curious to see how Vista is received by the general public. Will there be massive hype, will people only get it with new systems?
To anyone who’s tried it: does it still (like beta 2) require a primary partition, and the “active” one at that?
To anyone who’s tried it: does it still (like beta 2) require a primary partition, and the “active” one at that?
I’m pretty sure it does. Then again, haven’t all Windows releases been that way?
I’m pretty curious to see how Vista is received by the general public. Will there be massive hype, will people only get it with new systems?
This may (knowing Microsoft, will) change in a big way as we near the release date – and two months away from the business release, I suspect we ARE actually nearing it now – but right now, I suspect the general public would say, “Windows what?”
Kinda light on the details; I’m actually looking forward to eventually see an arstechnica like review of Windows Vista, where by the whole operating system is disected and analysed.
On a good side, however, from what I understand, alot of the drivers that don’t actually have major performance requirements now are user space – USB support etc. which is a good thing(tm).
Hopefully with the move in the direction of user space drivers along with the seperation between services and users, and the fact that all end users by default are now in LUA mode, it’ll yeild better stability and security; if ultimately there is a little performance hit, but a major improvement in the above two areas, I think its a small price to pay.
As for Paul, I just ignore him, I’ve never taken his opinion on Windows matters seriously; quite frankly, one is a fool or a tool to thing that Paul could possibly provide an unbiased review given his past – the WGA saga and subsequent cockups.
seems overall response to the new build is postive. thats good. really good for us IT guys. as companys will push new Hardware and software for it causing a new upswing ~~~~>hopes<~~~~~
becuase, MS is ever going to go away, MS on the desktop is not just going to fall off. so we might as well get used to it and hope for the best. even work with the tools we have both OSS and not to create the best desktops we can for our users.
-Nex6
More iCandy than Apple! While Apple continues to refine OS X, MS pours on the honey. Way overdone,,,,,,,pretty!
Many of Microsoft things are hard to resist to try, but the longer you use them, the more disappointing and disturbing feeling you have. Then Linux, contrary to this way, many of distributions are hard to try, but the longer you use them, the happier you are.
I am proud of being a happy Arch Linux fan.
“Vista and Mac OS X look better…”
————————————–
Than what, a dead rabbit on the side of the road… Yeah, you won that one. OS X is a very nice GUI, but Vista doesn’t look much different and XP with some Window Blinds add-on. Even the OS X “Look A-Like” interface that Vista uses is 100x’s worse than OS X and KDE still looks WAY better.
—————————————
“Especially in comparison to MS Office 2007…”
—————————————
You compare anything to MS Office and have the nerve to complain about bloat… Get a clue!!!
—————————————
“have more support from software and hardware vendors…”
—————————————
Well, last time I installed Windows XP, I had to install video drivers, audio drivers, chip-set drivers, joystick drivers, printer drivers, network card drivers, wireless drivers, CPU drivers (I mean, come on), and then updated drivers from MS’s update site.
Last time I installed Linux, all I had to do was install video drivers…
Now who has better driver support?
As far as software support goes, have you seen how many packages were in the *Ubuntu repos; or SUSE’s repos, or any other distro’s repos. It totally eclipses ANYTHING windows could ever imagine. As for all your proprietary applications that you “Need”, that’s your problem that you are locked into those; no one Else’s.
——————————————-
“The truth hurts, I know”…
——————————————-
I’m sure you do know; because I don’t worry about virus’ , malware, spyware, slow buggy code, and a clunky interface.
I don’t worry about calling up MS Activation support line and try to interpret some other language when I want to install my OS.
I enjoy a totaly FREE operating system; Free to install what I want, free to watch what I want, free to listen to what I want, free to program what I want, free to choose what I want, when I want. Free to modify my interface how ever I want without paying some looser $60 for an application that does it for me. Free…Free…Free
I like the sound of that… FREE
Like the Rush song that I listen to using my free MP3 player, Amarok… Free Will… Yeah, FREE… Can you say that; not as long as you are simply RENTING your OS and applicaitons… Mmmmmm FREEEEE
Edited 2006-08-29 00:32
Even the OS X “Look A-Like” interface that Vista uses is 100x’s worse than OS X and KDE still looks WAY better.
Of course, the Win32 Classic interface looks better than all of them. Lighter on resources too
Now who has better driver support?
Depends. If you run into a piece of hardware that Windows doesn’t support out of the box, you install the driver from the CD. If you run into the same thing on Linux, near as I can tell, getting the device up and running involves voodoo and live chickens.
As far as software support goes, have you seen how many packages were in the *Ubuntu repos; or SUSE’s repos, or any other distro’s repos.
Yeah, saw the one for Debian. It had about 8,000,000,000 apps, except for the one or two I was looking for.
It totally eclipses ANYTHING windows could ever imagine.
Yeah, that’s just what I want for my OS. A bunch of lame-ass alpha-quality apps from Sourceforge.
As for all your proprietary applications that you “Need”, that’s your problem that you are locked into those; no one Else’s.
Yes, proprietary apps that are better than their open source counterparts. That seems like a high-quality problem to me.
I’m sure you do know; because I don’t worry about virus’ , malware, spyware, slow buggy code, and a clunky interface.
Neither do I.
I enjoy a totaly FREE operating system; Free to install what I want, free to watch what I want, free to listen to what I want
Yeah, and if it weren’t for DVD Jon, your cheap ass wouldn’t even be able to watch DVD’s on your computer, let alone the new hi-def stuff.
free to program what I want, free to choose what I want, when I want. Free to modify my interface how ever I want without paying some looser $60 for an application that does it for me. Free…Free…Free
Well, if some of you want to know why you can’t get more commercial software ported to Linux, here ya go.
Like the Rush song that I listen to using my free MP3 player, Amarok… Free Will… Yeah, FREE…
Wow, I envy you. I wish Windows had free mp3s players too.
Can you say that; not as long as you are simply RENTING your OS and applicaitons… Mmmmmm FREEEEE
Maybe you should try RENTING a brain, instead of talking out of yoru ass.
Very well said. I’m kind of sick myself of this kind of people distorting obvious facts.
From my experience Linux is fine until you hit some unsupported hardware, or you need to do something more complex than writing a letter to gradma in OpenOffice.
Linux is great for servers and should stay there, unless the developers figure out what common users really want.
From my experience Linux is fine until you hit some unsupported hardware, or you need to do something more complex than writing a letter to gradma in OpenOffice.
“something more” … does tv watching and recording, video capture, coding (c++, java, perl), sound/radio capture, editing [tex] papers [etc] count as something more ?
for every and each hardware element of ones pc you can find one which is supported; but yes, you need to know what hardware you buy, which is _not_ a bad requirement really, it will only do you good in the long term
If you never used Windows (err…if you pretend to have never used Windows) or if you didn’t try this new build, how can you make conclusions regarding Vista?
I’m a Windows user and I didn’t like Vista at first but this new build is really great and is slowly changing my mind. Sure, Vista ain’t perfect and I still prefer XP over it…but afaik, it’s not tagged final yet.
“Maybe you should try RENTING a brain, instead of talking out of yoru ass.”
——————————————————-
HEHEHE… Its funny when I can get a rise out of someone like you. Makes my day…
Ok, back to enjoying my FREE OS and watching my FREE DVD’s before bed; where I will use my FREE OS installed on my pda to read an electronic book on my FREE reader software…
Maybe I will play some World of Warcraft on my FREE OS tomorrow; it sure does preform better than that RENTAL software you use…
HEHEHE
“Ok, back to enjoying my FREE OS and watching my FREE DVD’s before bed; where I will use my FREE OS installed on my pda to read an electronic book on my FREE reader software…”
Yeah … that 10cents a day I paid for XP sure hurts the wallet.
Is that all OSS is about? Are all users just tightwads?
Yeah … that 10cents a day I paid for XP sure hurts the wallet.
Is that all OSS is about? Are all users just tightwads?
No, it’s not about the money (well, for some people it is, but that’s their story). It’s about freedom. What freedom, are hear you ask ? Well, there are a lot of freedoms, most people wouldn’t even think about. Most wouldn’t even know they need or want that freedom. So they don’t care. And it’s easy to dismiss other people’s wish and stickiness to OS and software-related freedoms, when you don’t feel or understand their point of view.
On a sidenote. The other day I received two startrek movie dvds as gifts from my little sister, who knows well how I enjoy startek. But, she happens to be currently in the US, and while she’s smart and also not a technical illiterate, she just didn’t think about region codes when she bought them, she was just thinking how I would like them. So she bought them and sent them to me. Now, how do you play such dvds here in europe ?
1) lucky enough to have a regionfree dvdplayer – I’m not
2) you are a windows user – hacking your dvd drive’s formware to either become regionfree or region change unlimited – I’m not using windows at home
3) you are a linux user, as I am – just pop in the disk, graba beer and enjoy the show
I’m done here.
“By the way, I’m an average PC user, and I have never owned a Windows PC.”
You’re definitely not the average PC user. You’re one of very few (relatively speaking) that have never owned a PC with Windows installed. Most people have Windows installed on their home PCs.
————————————-
“And installing software on any other system than mainstream Linux (well, I can do with OSX) tires me too.”
You should try to install some piece of software on a Windows machine. Distros like ubuntu make it easy but installing Windows software is incredibly easy as well. You double click an icon and click on a button labeled “next” a few times until a window comes up that says “finished”…no really it’s THAT easy
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“OS X is a very nice GUI, but Vista doesn’t look much different and XP with some Window Blinds add-on. Even the OS X “Look A-Like” interface that Vista uses is 100x’s worse than OS X and KDE still looks WAY better.”
OK well I think Vista looks nice although I agree OS X looks better. However, I think KDE is terrible. Oh yeah, I really loved some features of XGL. That’s one of the few things I miss about linux.
————————————-
“You compare anything to MS Office and have the nerve to complain about bloat… Get a clue!!!”
MS Office 2007 is amazing. Go try the beta and I’m sure you’ll agree. Btw, my Word 2003 uses 12,705KB of memory. Excel uses 9,760KB. That’s not a lot. Go spend 30 dollars and buy an extra 256MB RAM for yourself.
————————————-
“As far as software support goes, have you seen how many packages were in the *Ubuntu repos; or SUSE’s repos, or any other distro’s repos. It totally eclipses ANYTHING windows could ever imagine.”
I’ve already mentioned that productivity software on linux sucks. Also, I don’t care if theres 10 million pieces of software. Everyone knows which software is good..very few. Mplayer for media, GIMP for photoediting, Gaim, etc. How about the 10000 other media players and photo editing software? Well, no one uses them because they’re terrible. Just about all of them are betas/alphas and super buggy. Theres like a new build released every other day. I use a tablet PC and the handwriting/note taking software is great, as is the writing recognition. Does linux have that kind of software in their massive repositories? How about speech recognition software? How come so many games won’t run on Linux or they run super slow? I don’t care if it’s the game’s problem or the graphics card vendors problem. It’s obvious neither party thinks linux is worth their time and support.
————————————-
“I don’t worry about virus’ , malware, spyware, slow buggy code, and a clunky interface.”
Thats a good point. Viruses, malware and spyware are a big problem.
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“Free to install what I want, free to watch what I want, free to listen to what I want, free to program what I want, free to choose what I want, when I want.”
Free to watch and listen to what you want? You mean illegally downloading pirated movies and music? Yea I can do that too. How else are you watching/listening to anything you want for free? Again, I don’t care that you install what you want. I know that the software I have, although not free, is better than what you’re using…Good thing you got Wine and VMware so you can watch wmv’s, use the Photoshop you pirated, use MS Office, watch quicktime movies and so on. or was I the only person in the world who did that?
————————————-
“As far as being responsive, Mac OS X and Windows Vista are not exactly the most responsive operating systems made. Are you sure you know what you’re talking about?”
Yea, I’m sure. I remember using ubuntu and there’d be a lot of small (yet noticeable) delays after I click to open something…even something as simple as gterm.
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“Which doesn’t exist yet.” (Talking about MS Office 2007)
I know it doesn’t but I’ve tried the betas and they’re already superior to Open Office…Not that Office 2000, XP, 2003 wasn’t already but 2007 is really quite nice. I especially love the live previews when you attempt to make documents changes (ie fonts). Go try it.
————————————-
Saved the best for last…
“Well, last time I installed Windows XP, I had to install video drivers, audio drivers, chip-set drivers, joystick drivers, printer drivers, network card drivers, wireless drivers, CPU drivers (I mean, come on), and then updated drivers from MS’s update site. Last time I installed Linux, all I had to do was install video drivers…”
I’ve yet to find a distro that gets my Epson printer, creative sound card, visioneer scanner or one where I don’t have to play around with system config files to get my 5 button mouse working (oh wait it’s 7 button because linux counts scrolling up and down as buttons too). ATI graphics drivers suck for linux. The company doesn’t think the OS is worth it’s time so they focus on Mac OS X and Windows drivers. What if I get my mouse working and upgrade to one with more buttons? Better go back to /etc/X11 blah blah and play with it. New wireless card? Might have to worry about that. Bluetooth device? Might not work either. How come my media control buttons on my keyboard don’t work? How come my main line-out of my soundcard works but not the headphone out?
No one wants to google “CUPS”, “scroll wheel linux”, “ati fglrx”, etc just to use their computer. It’s annoying as hell especially to have to do “su blah blah” and play with system files. I’d much rather pop in the logitech CD that came with my mouse/keyboard, click on a button labeled “next” 3 or 4 times to install the drivers, and configure my extra buttons on the mouse and keyboard to do exactly what I want them to do. How many times have you run into hardware that works on linux but isn’t supported by Windows? That does not happen. period. The opposite occurs way too often.
>>>I’ve already mentioned that productivity software on linux sucks. Also, I don’t care if theres 10 million pieces of software. Everyone knows which software is good..very few. Mplayer for media, GIMP for photoediting, Gaim, etc. How about the 10000 other media players and photo editing software? (snip long rant with no rel point) <<<<
At this point I’m pretty sure you’re just trolling.
>>>Yea, I’m sure. I remember using ubuntu and there’d be a lot of small (yet noticeable) delays after I click to open something…even something as simple as gterm.<<<
And now I’m positive you’re a troll. You haven’t used Linux in any way, shape, or form. For one, there is no such application as “gterm”. The closest I can imagine is gnome-terminal and it’s fast as hell. Stopped reading after this point.
There is a such thing as gterm but I was referring to gnome-terminal sorry. If you want proof of the slight delays I was talking about with gnome-terminal here you go:
http://www.gnome.org/start/2.14/notes/en/rnusers.html
Secondly, here’s a post from me on linuxquestions.org from 2004:
http://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/showthread.php?t=201817
I’ve used slackware, DSL, several versions of Ubuntu, Suse (can’t remember which version), and most recently SLED 10 which happens to still be dual booted on my system with Windows XP.
I know a lot of people like to start calling others “trolls” when they lose an argument or feel dumb but come on, this isn’t first grade.
Edited 2006-08-29 05:59
How come so many games won’t run on Linux or they run super slow? I don’t care if it’s the game’s problem or the graphics card vendors problem. It’s obvious neither party thinks linux is worth their time and support.
Vicious circle you have there. X doesn’t develop software for Y, saying Y isn’t worth the effort. Unknowing Z says he won’t use Y since X doesn’t develop software for it. And since many Zs will think the same, X will have no reason to change his mind.
The problem is, X shouldn’t develop software for the unknowing crowd of Zs, they should do it for the real users.
most of the responses are pretty typical arround here. Now, i admin both Linux and Windows. and: I am a firm believer of use the best tool for the job, sure windows is not perfect BUT: neither is Linux.
I have NT 4 server that has been in production since NT came out, and are still stable. like wise I have a suse server with major issues. like wise it does not matter becuase ALL OS’s have one issue or another period.
on the desktop I think for the most part windows and OSX, will own the desktop. for the time being anyways,
a porperly setup XP with GPOs is very cool to admin.
-nex6
sure windows is not perfect BUT: neither is Linux.
Good point. It’s a shame we have to spend more time educating misinformed users about Linux than moaning about what Linux doesn’t do well.
I have NT 4 server that has been in production since NT came out, and are still stable. like wise I have a suse server with major issues. like wise it does not matter becuase ALL OS’s have one issue or another period.
Another good point.
on the desktop I think for the most part windows and OSX, will own the desktop. for the time being anyways,
a porperly setup XP with GPOs is very cool to admin.
For me it isn’t about “who owns the desktop”, it’s about deflecting FUD. And it’s also about – as you said – using the right tool for the job.
For me, in most areas, Linux or another flavour of UNIX is “the right tool for the job.” It doesn’t mean that OpenOffice has as many features as MS Office, or that it hasn’t yet copied the latest whizz-bang interface from Microsoft, or that Linux only has 100,000 apps as opposed to MS’s 1,000,000,000, or that using it doesn’t make me look “cool” amongst my pre-pubescent moron friends. I would probably look cooler playing games on a PS3 than on a PC anyway.
It’s about it being much better for what *I* use it for than anything else. And if that means I’d rather load up OpenOffice or Abiword, with 10 features that I use, than pay $$ and load up MS Office, with 1000 features I don’t, that’s my business; so anyone out there who thinks they know better than me what the best tools for the jobs I do are just because they read OS News or use Windows, is a jerk.
here here!!
people should use the right tool or OS in this case for what there needs are. be that OSX, Linux or Windows.
people should not have to “settle” for something but instead, should use whatever the best thing for them is. and use it.
and should not get blasted for it cuz some thinks there OS is not ‘cool’.
as A geek i play with as many OS’s s i can including windows. So, I can admin and dev on both. makes me valuable and there I have a decent job as a result.
-Nex6
Every time there is an article on OSNews the whole discussion ends in one big argument of people claming Linux is better because…or Windows is better because and visa-vera. Who cares? This artivle is about MS latest Windows Vista release and not about Linux or Apple.
It is also the other way around; whenever there is an article about Linux all Windows freaks drop in and argue that Windows is beter blah blah.
This really distracts all the attention off the topic and the topic here is that the latest release of Vista is less buggier, more responsive and is getting in good shape, if anyone forgot!
ps. i do think OSNews is giving to much attention to Vista, every update or little News about is is being placed directly on the head page, Ulteo the news OS from Mandrakes founder is there since march and i never saw a topic from it..and Mepis is putting out new releases every 2-3 weeks where are those topics?
Edited 2006-08-29 06:28
Windows Explorer Behavior is more unstable than with 5472; I confirmed this by reproducing the unstability on two systems.
Performance wise It was super fast in comparision with 5472, but in networking is was horribly slow <1MB/Sec on Gigabit ethernet, while on 5472 it was around 9 MB/Sec.
The game Chess was more responsive than previous versions too.
So, I had mixed feelings about it, thus I will judge vista when it goes gold.
Windows Explorer Behavior is more unstable than with 5472; I confirmed this by reproducing the unstability on two systems.
Just out of interest, what were you doing at the time?
Regarding your network performance, are you using the windows provided network driver or one downloaded from the hardware vendor.
The Chess game which you were playing, what operating system is it designed for; one has to remember that a good amount of applications and games might not work due to crappy programming by the said software company.
“Just out of interest, what were you doing at the time?”
I was copying a CD content from vista to a windows server 2003 share over a gigabit switch. And on another occasion from windows vista to Fedora Core 5 Server
“Regarding your network performance, are you using the windows provided network driver or one downloaded from the hardware vendor. ”
Yes, I was using the Mobo supplied driver
“The Chess game which you were playing, what operating system is it designed for”
It must be designed for windows vista because it’s the stock Chess game that comes with vista
Hardware:
Mobo: Asus P5WHD
CPU: Core2Duo E6300 @1.86GHz, Vista Score: 4.5
RAM: DDRII-800MHz 1GB Dual channel Corsair Twin Pack, Vista Score:3.9
HDD: SATA WD 200GB, Vista Score: 4.7
Graphics: PCI-X ATI Radeon X300 with MS stock graphics driver, Vista Performance results were 2.0 for desktop Graphics+ 3.0 for gaming Graphics ie 5.0 total.
I was copying a CD content from vista to a windows server 2003 share over a gigabit switch. And on another occasion from windows vista to Fedora Core 5 Server
That doesn’t sound quite right; there is something definately wrong there, especially in regards to sharing straight off the hard disk, then again, I’ve had some shocking speed when transferring over a 100mbps ethernet between my Mac and PC.
Yes, I was using the Mobo supplied driver
Have you tried a clean (no upgrade) install of Windows Vista, without those drivers, what is the performance like? thas assuming that Microsoft has drivers for their controllers.
It must be designed for windows vista because it’s the stock Chess game that comes with vista
Pardon my ignorance, I’m a little unknowledgeable about what games came with Windows Vista; like the networking issue, its sounds quite strange given that it shouldn’t occur under normal circumstances.
Hardware:
Mobo: Asus P5WHD
CPU: Core2Duo E6300 @1.86GHz, Vista Score: 4.5
RAM: DDRII-800MHz 1GB Dual channel Corsair Twin Pack, Vista Score:3.9
HDD: SATA WD 200GB, Vista Score: 4.7
Graphics: PCI-X ATI Radeon X300 with MS stock graphics driver, Vista Performance results were 2.0 for desktop Graphics+ 3.0 for gaming Graphics ie 5.0 total.
Although the graphics card is on the low end of the spectrum, over all, the machine should scream running Windows Vista, the only suggestion I could suggest would be lodging a bug report with Microsoft, outlining the attrocious performance when running Windows Vista on the above configuration.
it looks and behaves like XP with some fancy colors and a few minor extras.
In other words, nothing to see here, move along 😉
cheers,
Paul
Sure, yeah…
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Features_new_to_Windows_Vista
I am not trolling but I have given up on this website.
Most of the people on here are just retarded anti-microsoft morons that run some flavor of linux and have no idea what reality is.
I know it sounds like I am trolling but this forum has gone down hill so much that I think most of it is worthless.
I have no problems with linux or open source. I do have problems with people that have political agendas and want to try to bully their way (yes I said bully) into getting things their way.
Wait a second, if we all just want to bash Windows how come this comment
http://osnews.com/permalink.php?news_id=15651&comment_id=156656
got such a high score?
Maybe it’s simply fun to bitch about whatever bothers you with any OS?
Also notice the amount of Windows articles on OSnews.
My guess would be that there are more linux guys here because most Windows guys tend not to care about OS topics.
But you know OSnews longer than I do so I’ll give you the benefit of doubt…
I am not trolling but I have given up on this website.
OK…
Most of the people on here are just retarded anti-microsoft morons that run some flavor of linux and have no idea what reality is.
What was that you were saying about not trolling?
I know it sounds like I am trolling but this forum has gone down hill so much that I think most of it is worthless.
While you’re at it you can blame the Windows users for a lot of it, too.
I have no problems with linux or open source.
Judging from your earlier comments, coulda fooled me.
I do have problems with people that have political agendas and want to try to bully their way (yes I said bully) into getting things their way.
Newsflash: EVERYONE has a political agenda. And I don’t know a company (besides Apple) that “bullies” people as much as MS, whether or not their software rocks.
I just waded through 4 pages of comments and saw hardly any information of use, like objective reports of actual experiences with this build of Vista without religious overtones.
I see a disturbing trend overall at OSNews where many of the articles that are posted seem to be specifically selected to elicit flamewars among the fanbois. Many of the postings are opinion pieces that are virtually guaranteed to elicit such responses, and there are fewer and fewer hardcore technical articles. And another trend that probably others have noticed – those few serious technical articles are getting much less comment activity.
These developments indicate to me that OSNews is now becoming principally a fanboi and flamer site instead of what it once was – a site that one could learn and find out about what was happening on the OS front (both mainstream and alternative), with intelligent, useful comments from the readership.
It looks like OSNews is pulling the same kind of maneuver that Dvorak was accused of (and actually admitted to), which is to post controversial articles (yes, flamebait) to crank up page hits in order to boost advertising revenue.
While I too am a businessman and understand the need to execute tactics and strategies to boost the bottom line, may I also suggest that this unsettling recent trend at OSNews may be resulting in an exodus of many of the readers and forum participants that many advertisers would like to reach, and therefore also reduce the number of potential advertisers?
Perhaps there is another way. Would OSNews consider setting up a separate site for the hardcore “propeller-heads” among us that want real OS related news, with rigorously moderated forums? That way, flamebait and flamewars could be kept separate on its own site, and be supported by mainstream consumer advertising (to include vendors of sexual paraphenalia for the many “lone rangers” that seem to be among the majority of the present readership), while the site catering to us true technoids would be supported by vendors of the products that get our kind all hot and bothered, like motherboard and graphics adapter manufacturers, or manufacturers of innovative software products.
I too am getting frustrated with OSNews, as it seems to have turned away from the focus it had initially. Should this situation not improve soon, I may also in a fit of pique delete the OSNews URL from my bookmark list. Does anyone know of any good OS news sites that might be out there on the Internet? If I had the time, I would start one myself.
A final note/question: what ever happened to the alternate OS review contest? This seems to have fizzled out. Is this perhaps a symptom of the problem I have addressed above?
Some good ideas there. For OS news (no capital N) i read Newsforge and Linuxtoday (yeah I know, but it has some good articles; obviously I don’t read the Get the FUD stuff) and drobe.co.uk. Can’t help you on Windows or MacOS newssites, though, sorry.
I’m with devnull on this one too, where in the article header does it say, “Windows is better than Linux – Bring on the Flame war”?!!!
I’m sure everyone here knows the virtues of Windows, Linux and OS X etc. etc. etc. That’s why were read the articles posted and post our own comments, because we like to be informed and not to slag one OS off over another.
Come on guys, get with the programme! 🙂
http://download.windowsvista.com/preview/prerc1/en/download.html