http://www.osnews.com/story/16166/IE_Market_Share_What_s_Going_on_ Exploring the Future of Computing en-us Copyright 2001-2009, David Adams adam+nospam@osnews.com Tue, 10 Nov 2009 05:05:35 GMT http://www.osnews.com/images/osnews.gif http://www.osnews.com http://osnews.com/thread?171421 http://osnews.com/thread?171421 Follow the money Fri, 13 Oct 2006 14:52:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (smitty_one_each) Comments http://osnews.com/thread?171439 http://osnews.com/thread?171439 Very astute. I thought those web stat firms were simply incompetant. Your explanation makes way more sense. Fri, 13 Oct 2006 15:14:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (TomB7) Comments http://osnews.com/thread?171444 http://osnews.com/thread?171444 I doubt. I operate several web sites and Opera has between 2 to 10%. Fri, 13 Oct 2006 15:21:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Joe User) Comments http://osnews.com/thread?171446 http://osnews.com/thread?171446 and that pretty much blows the "open source fixes bugs faster than close source" myth. Fri, 13 Oct 2006 15:22:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (stephanem) Comments http://osnews.com/thread?171453 http://osnews.com/thread?171453 Yep. After all, if one doesn't care much about RMS, tabs and nightly builds why would one need to change app? Fri, 13 Oct 2006 15:31:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (ronaldst) Comments http://osnews.com/thread?171455 http://osnews.com/thread?171455 Out of curiosity, what are you replying to? I saw no mention of security fixes in the articles. Fri, 13 Oct 2006 15:32:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (alisonken1) Comments http://osnews.com/thread?171458 http://osnews.com/thread?171458 Ha, it hurts to think that the majority of internet users are either dumb enough or careless enough to still use the piece of security bugware called IE. This is a truly scary story, just what we need for Friday 13. Fri, 13 Oct 2006 15:35:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (0xbadbeef) Comments http://osnews.com/thread?171460 http://osnews.com/thread?171460 oops... nevermind... completely got the dates wrong Edited 2006-10-13 15:40 Fri, 13 Oct 2006 15:38:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Darkelve) Comments http://osnews.com/thread?171480 http://osnews.com/thread?171480 What type of website though? I run a website for totally non-technical people mainly in the EEC, and Opera usage is at 0.8% (KHTML is 3% and Gecko 13%) Fri, 13 Oct 2006 16:07:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Kroc) Comments http://osnews.com/thread?171502 http://osnews.com/thread?171502 I would take Ars Technica's figures over WebAnalytics.

I find it difficult to believe that fewer people are using Firefox/Mozilla... Once people where I work started discovering Firefox (developers anyway), the immediately began switching over. The variety of plugins available (especially to aid in development) are just handy and the browser renders well and quickly. It's more configurable... etc.

IE has barely changed in a decade. Fri, 13 Oct 2006 17:11:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Tuishimi) Comments http://osnews.com/thread?171508 http://osnews.com/thread?171508 IE7 is reclaiming market share for IE.

Couple that with Firefox's dreadful reputation for security and Firefox 2.0's meagre enhancements has let users know that they are just a front for Googles ads and have no intention of adding anymore important features ... they are too busy tracking down 1000's of security bugs.

IE7 is the new cool browser ... Firefox is old and tired and full of security holes. Fri, 13 Oct 2006 17:22:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (NotParker) Comments http://osnews.com/thread?171521 http://osnews.com/thread?171521 IE7 is the new cool browser

Now come on. A browser in which you can't even change the toolbars (order, moving, add/remove buttons, etc.), not even in rc2. A browser with absolutely no easy way to develop&add plugins. If nothing else, these are enough for many of us to not even care. And those "meagre enhancements" ? About thousandfold more than IE has seen in the last 4 years, _including_ IE7. Fri, 13 Oct 2006 17:45:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (l3v1) Comments http://osnews.com/thread?171533 http://osnews.com/thread?171533 IE7 patches two or three CSS support issues, repairs none of the broken CSS implementation, repairs none of the broken HTML implementations, and supports none of the CSS2 spec missing since the Empire State Building spent half its afternoon in shadow.

It's incrementally better than IE6. Incrementally.

Troll somewhere else. Fri, 13 Oct 2006 18:03:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (snozzberry) Comments http://osnews.com/thread?171538 http://osnews.com/thread?171538 Here is statistics from my site:

Browsers Hits Percent
----------------------------
Firefox 19202 33.8 %
Konqueror 14328 25.2 %
MS Internet Explorer 12670 22.3 %
Opera 8168 14.3 %
Mozilla 1355 2.3 %
Unknown 632 1.1 %
Netscape 148 0.2 %
Safari 140 0.2 %
K-Meleon 104 0.1 %
Camino 9 0 %
Others 0 %Edited 2006-10-13 18:21 Fri, 13 Oct 2006 18:19:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (antik) Comments http://osnews.com/thread?171545 http://osnews.com/thread?171545 The reason your site may be reporting a low Opera count is that Opera reports itself as IE on Windows XP - reguardless of the platform. If your users are non-tech then you can besure that they have not changed this - default setting so if you site is just taking the reported user agent IDs of your vistitors - I would guess that you see most of the Opera users as IE on XP. Fri, 13 Oct 2006 18:38:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (cfaak) Comments http://osnews.com/thread?171548 http://osnews.com/thread?171548 I wrote the sniffer myself, it detects a large number of different browsers, and can detect opera, even when it's spoofing. My Opera usage figure is accurate. I have Opera v5-v9 installed and about ten other browsers installed for this purpose.

(edit: missed 'have')Edited 2006-10-13 18:56 Fri, 13 Oct 2006 18:55:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Kroc) Comments http://osnews.com/thread?171549 http://osnews.com/thread?171549 That's nice, but as useful as an inflatable dart board. What website are you talking about? What market? What traffic? Are you seriously trying to prove something with these as-good-as-made-up figures? Fri, 13 Oct 2006 19:01:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Kroc) Comments http://osnews.com/thread?171559 http://osnews.com/thread?171559 There's a political web site, a regional health web site and a law portal. Fri, 13 Oct 2006 19:40:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Joe User) Comments http://osnews.com/thread?171573 http://osnews.com/thread?171573 >> Firefox 19202 33.8 %
>> Konqueror 14328 25.2 %

What, Konqueror twenty-five+ percent?
Your site is kde.org?
;) Fri, 13 Oct 2006 21:27:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (h3rman) Comments http://osnews.com/thread?171582 http://osnews.com/thread?171582 lol, its very easy to believe. you know, some sites actually attract people which dont accept crap like IE. Fri, 13 Oct 2006 21:55:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Redeeman) Comments http://osnews.com/thread?171583 http://osnews.com/thread?171583 I know of website in Belgium, 15 000 visitors a day on average, which has 81% Internet Explorer, 11-12% Firefox, and the rest eaten up between Netscape/Safari/Opera/...

11-12% of the market in a rather conservative country like Belgium isn't peanuts. Fri, 13 Oct 2006 21:59:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Darkelve) Comments http://osnews.com/thread?171585 http://osnews.com/thread?171585 "lol, its very easy to believe. you know, some sites actually attract people which dont accept crap like IE."

spreadfirefox website :p Fri, 13 Oct 2006 22:00:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Darkelve) Comments http://osnews.com/thread?171591 http://osnews.com/thread?171591 kde actually has most hits with konqueror, atleast dot.kde.org Fri, 13 Oct 2006 22:09:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Redeeman) Comments http://osnews.com/thread?171592 http://osnews.com/thread?171592 Sorry but what is so sexy & arousing about a percentage change in browsers ?

Like it's not that browsers arent covered E-N-O-U-G-H on OSn .

It is IMO such a boring topic to cover so many times - what does everyone get from browser stats ?

There are many other stats which are more interesting than noticing granny is using firefox instaed of IE & the inherient inevitable doom this must predict for for X - browser -

.. wait .. what about OLPC browser impact - that would be more interesting IMO Fri, 13 Oct 2006 22:11:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (poohgee) Comments http://osnews.com/thread?171593 http://osnews.com/thread?171593 .. to counter that ... I wish some sites didnt accept crap like Firefox or IE & only accept Opera Fri, 13 Oct 2006 22:16:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (poohgee) Comments http://osnews.com/thread?171594 http://osnews.com/thread?171594 "Sorry but what is so sexy & arousing about a percentage change in browsers ?"

Because it hasn't happened in years?

Because browser change is supposed to be subject to the law of 'inertia'? (people won't change products if they see no reason to, or reason not to [doesn't matter if the reasons are good or bad] )

Because now, finally, there's a browser that's changing the rules? And forcing IE to better respect the rules (standards etc.)?

That's exciting enough to me! Fri, 13 Oct 2006 22:19:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Darkelve) Comments http://osnews.com/thread?171604 http://osnews.com/thread?171604 I find it difficult to believe that fewer people are using Firefox/Mozilla... Once people where I work started discovering Firefox (developers anyway), the immediately began switching over.

I think one factor that leads people to switch back to IE is the enormous amount of broken and uncompliant sites out there that only work properly on IE. My internet banking site is just like that. Fri, 13 Oct 2006 23:04:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (rjamorim) Comments http://osnews.com/thread?171629 http://osnews.com/thread?171629 Its nice to see everyone cheering on NetApplications stats because it makes them feel better about Firefox.

They are also the ones citing Linux at .4%

Now OneStat has Linux at .36%.

Tough choice for me ... Edited 2006-10-14 03:49 Sat, 14 Oct 2006 03:47:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (NotParker) Comments http://osnews.com/thread?171641 http://osnews.com/thread?171641 Tabs (they've been available as an IE add-on for years)
Printing is great
Quicktabs is fun
Searching
Phishing Filter
ActiveX opt-in
Lots of new security features
"No Addons" mode


What does Firefox 2.0 have thats new? Spell check? Sat, 14 Oct 2006 06:40:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (NotParker) Comments http://osnews.com/thread?171645 http://osnews.com/thread?171645 //... sites out there that only work properly on IE. My internet banking site is just like that.//

Heavens above!

Internet banking is the very last thing you want to be doing if you are running IE.

Personally, I would only use my Banks Internet banking when I found it worked perfectly using Firefox on Linux if I spoofed the useragent. The bank was lying about "requires IE".

I let the bank know all about this. Since the banks terms & conditions said that if I was to use their Internet banking, I was responsible keep my system secure ... I let them know also that in order to do that I couldn't use IE.

Eventually (in the face of approx 20% of their customer using firefox) they gave in. Their site now "officially" supports Firefox (even though it unoficially did so all along).Edited 2006-10-14 07:52 Sat, 14 Oct 2006 07:47:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (hal2k1) Comments http://osnews.com/thread?171647 http://osnews.com/thread?171647 //Lots of new security features //

Pfft!

Virtually all of the malware exploits in the wild that attack via web browsers are exploits for IE.

This is an "IE exclusive feature" that you forgot to list, amongst all the features of IE7 that you did list that Firefox already has anyway.

What does IE7 have that Firefox doesn't? (Even Firefox 1.5) Hmmm. Let's see.

How about being limited to only one platform? Firefox doesn't have that. How about lack of support for web standards like SVG? Firefox doesn't have that either.Edited 2006-10-14 07:59 Sat, 14 Oct 2006 07:58:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (hal2k1) Comments http://osnews.com/thread?171653 http://osnews.com/thread?171653 Well, the 10% that did switch knew a little bit more about computers ... the rest are just too ignorant about what a browser is, or about security, or about anything related to computers. Let's face it: the vast majority of people are computer illiterate, but I wouldn't call them stupid - I know a lot of smart people that couldn't care less about computers and use them from time to time just out of necesity. Sat, 14 Oct 2006 08:21:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (pandronic) Comments http://osnews.com/thread?171656 http://osnews.com/thread?171656 I think opera has more users. The problem, in estimation of market share of opera, is that, opera presents itself as Internet Explorer by default. Sat, 14 Oct 2006 08:38:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (mormon) Comments http://osnews.com/thread?171662 http://osnews.com/thread?171662 Probably this is a linux oriented site.
For example I use almost only konqueror
(the best UN*X browser, I think) Sat, 14 Oct 2006 09:52:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (zeev) Comments http://osnews.com/thread?171680 http://osnews.com/thread?171680 It pretends to be IE to fool basic user agent checks, but "Opera" is STILL IN THE USER AGENT STRING. And almost all stats apps now check for that.

However, Opera 9 DOES let you completely mask as IE or Mozilla. But it is not a default. Sat, 14 Oct 2006 13:08:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (sappyvcv) Comments http://osnews.com/thread?171681 http://osnews.com/thread?171681 You don't trust your banks website? Ha ha, that's pretty funny. Sat, 14 Oct 2006 13:09:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (sappyvcv) Comments http://osnews.com/thread?171688 http://osnews.com/thread?171688 You trust IE & Windows to use when you visit your bank site and enter your passwords? To get access to your own money?

Windows of the keylogger & other spyware/malware fame?

Hahahaha thats incredibly funny. Sat, 14 Oct 2006 14:10:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (hal2k1) Comments http://osnews.com/thread?171691 http://osnews.com/thread?171691 I would say about 10% of major sites only work correctly with msie. That may not seem like much, but -bottom line- when you use msie, you don't have to worry about such incompatibilities.

Msie also starts up faster, and doesn't have to be seperately downloaded, and installed. Sat, 14 Oct 2006 14:25:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (walterbyrd) Comments http://osnews.com/thread?171693 http://osnews.com/thread?171693 No, you said IE. What difference does the browser make when you're visiting a TRUSTED site but have a keylogger or other malware?

I trust Windows to use when visting my bank site because I know what is on my machine. I only use IE to visit trusted sites and I don't run executables unless they are trusted.

It's only "incredible funny" because you are unable to fathom that some people aren't as incompetent as you when it comes to windows.

Anyway, carry on with your vendetta.Edited 2006-10-14 15:03 Sat, 14 Oct 2006 14:59:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (sappyvcv) Comments http://osnews.com/thread?171706 http://osnews.com/thread?171706 Boy, some people really hate a discussion don't they?

I'll repeat:

Its nice to see everyone cheering on NetApplications stats because it makes them feel better about Firefox.

They are also the ones citing Linux at .4%

Now OneStat has Linux at .36%.

Tough choice for me ...

New in IE7:

Tabs (they've been available as an IE add-on for years)
Printing is great
Quicktabs is fun
Searching
Phishing Filter
ActiveX opt-in
Lots of new security features
"No Addons" mode

What does Firefox 2.0 have thats new? Spell check? Sat, 14 Oct 2006 13:06:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (NotParker) Comments http://osnews.com/thread?171730 http://osnews.com/thread?171730 Stats from a german server for students of computer science:

Firefox 267674 60.5 %
Opera 60812 13.7 %
MS Internet Explorer 31412 7.1 %
Galeon 28226 6.3 %
Mozilla 27137 6.1 %
Konqueror 16153 3.6 %
Safari 7330 1.6 % Sat, 14 Oct 2006 21:03:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Ford Prefect) Comments http://osnews.com/thread?171755 http://osnews.com/thread?171755 Trolls don't -really- need a reason to start mumbling, do they?

- Gilboa Sat, 14 Oct 2006 23:06:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (gilboa) Comments http://osnews.com/thread?171757 http://osnews.com/thread?171757 Amazing. You just can't stop trolling, can't you?
Enlighten me please: Do you actually believe that if you post the same stupid message over, and over, and over, and over again people will actually say:
"Duh! If he says that 100,000 times, he must be right! Duh!" and dump Firefox/Linux/etc? Do you?
Or are you just way-too-lonely and honestly, got nothing better to do with your time?

- Gilboa Sat, 14 Oct 2006 23:19:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (gilboa) Comments http://osnews.com/thread?171764 http://osnews.com/thread?171764 Amazing. You just can't stop trolling, can't you?

Pointing out the new features of IE7 in a discussion titled "IE Market Share: Whats Going On?" is "trolling"?

How bizarre! Are you so blinded by your hatred of Microsoft that listing IE7's new features threatens you so much you have to label it "trolling"?

And, this article mentions OneStat and NetApplications which to "prove" Firefox is doing well ... but when I point out those two web analytics firms are also the source of Linux's miniscule market share figures I've been using, you get really mad about it?

What a joke.

I'm really amazed at how threatening reality is to the "Linux trolls" who post hate about Microsoft 500 times a day but can't stand one tiny bit of news about market share or new features.

The reality is people jump on bandwagons when "new" broswers come out and jump off when "old" browsers are perceived as getting stale. This has been going on since Mosaic (look it up).

Firefox is look stale. Lots of security problems even when people promised Firefox was "secure". A very small number of features in 2.0. Some of features promised for 3.0 becasue they couldn't get to them in 2.0.

And here the IE7 team does a great, great job on new features for IE and getting them out in a timely and stable manner.

Wait until IE8 next year! Then you'll get really depressed! Sat, 14 Oct 2006 23:52:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (NotParker) Comments http://osnews.com/thread?171776 http://osnews.com/thread?171776 I think the default for Opera have been to show Opera for quite some time now. Sun, 15 Oct 2006 01:49:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (aliquis) Comments http://osnews.com/thread?171812 http://osnews.com/thread?171812 *Sigh* Trolls *Sigh*
Beside trying to numb me into submission by repeating the same message over and over and over again, did you bother reading my post? Or did you just see it as an opportunity to repeat your stale message again?

My point is simple:
Stop posting the same message over and over again.
Once is -enough-!

... And if you keep on copy-paste the same message over and over.... and over again, don't cry uncle because people like me spend all our mod points to shut you up.

- GilboaEdited 2006-10-15 09:53 Sun, 15 Oct 2006 09:51:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (gilboa) Comments http://osnews.com/thread?171816 http://osnews.com/thread?171816 //No, you said IE. What difference does the browser make when you're visiting a TRUSTED site but have a keylogger or other malware?

I trust Windows to use when visting my bank site because I know what is on my machine. I only use IE to visit trusted sites and I don't run executables unless they are trusted. //

This is rich. Very rich.

Lets imagine your Windows has "caught" a keylogger (and lets face it, keyloggers are written for Windows, and there are a huge number of Windows installs out there which have "caught" some malware).

OK, with your keylogger running (unknown to you) you visit your banking site. You key in your user identification, your password and maybe some other identifying data ... and the keylogger merrily sends it off to the person who has compromised your machine.

Now that person can visit your banking site, put in the same keys as recorded, and (even if the banking site has some other features), that person is at least 90% of the way to getting access to your bank account.

Once he has access ... that is the end of your bank account contents.

I'm sure you get this bit. The thing is, if you use IE on Windows, that is the very best way to get the keylogger or other malware in the first place. The things to avoid are firstly: using IE, and next: using Windows.

Use Windows but not IE - you are far better off but still at risk because a decent part of IE is actually running in Windows even if you are using another browser. Lets not forget after all that there is malware out there that targets Opera and Firefox, but don't forget when they say that that they actually mean Opera or Firefox running on Windows.

Avoid both Windows and IE and you are almost certainly safe.

//It's only "incredible funny" because you are unable to fathom that some people aren't as incompetent as you when it comes to windows. //

ROFL.

You just posted "I trust Windows to use when visting my bank site" and in the same post claim that I am incompetent? That is a beauty!

ROFLMAO!

In the words of the immortal Bugs Bunny, "what a maroon"!

//Anyway, carry on with your vendetta. //

It isn't a vendetta. I'm just trying to give people a fair warning.

PS: Why don't you listen to the recommendations of America's Homeland Security, if you don't believe me. They say, effectively something along the lines of if you are going to surf the web, then for your security they suggest you use "anything but IE".Edited 2006-10-15 11:10 Sun, 15 Oct 2006 11:00:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (hal2k1) Comments http://osnews.com/thread?171823 http://osnews.com/thread?171823 I think there is possibly some serious misunderstanding of FOSS motivations here.

The words quoted below say it better than I can.

http://www.computerworld.com.au/index.php/id;724544089;pp;2

I think business players in the community can be made to understand that the one thing Microsoft can't embrace, extend and extinguish is FOSS values. You can trust the community, because it didn't write the software to do anything but honestly write the very best software it could. There are no hidden motives. No games. No lies. No underhanded marketing gamesmanship. It's pure software, written with love and for fun and in some cases to provide freedom to users. Nobody wrote Linux with the motive to destroy Microsoft, even if the reverse motivation might be true. And there is an honesty about the software. No FOSS developer would ever pretend that a browser was part of an operating system, for example. It's a different and more straightforward world.

FOSS motivation is all about what is good for the end users. This is because the software development model is a "meritocracy". Whatever code is best is adopted.

It has nothing whatsoever to do with "destroying Microsoft". It is not a vendetta.

It is a more of a "quest for freedom" for software users.

In the context of this thread, end users need to know that if they are not an expert, then using IE and Windows for things like Internet banking is not safe. There are alternatives ... and just about any of the alternatives is actually far better than IE and Windows.Edited 2006-10-15 11:50 Sun, 15 Oct 2006 11:45:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (hal2k1) Comments http://osnews.com/thread?171844 http://osnews.com/thread?171844 I understand not wanting to use IE but IMO Opera is a much nicer experience than firefox - faster, prettier, and some great features in 9 like the ability to quicly add a toolbar/address bar search on any page just by right clicking in the text input box.

I only ever load up FF to test websites when developing cos the developer plugins are cool - but I have no use for those when browing on a daily basis. Sun, 15 Oct 2006 13:41:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Kabal) Comments http://osnews.com/thread?171906 http://osnews.com/thread?171906 Beside trying to numb me into submission by repeating the same message over and over and over again, did you bother reading my post?

I read your whining and snivelling.

Stop posting the same message over and over again.

I'll tell you what. You stop lying about Linux market share ... and stop posting hate filled diatribes against anything to do with Microsoft ... and someday I'll pay attention to you.

Until then, I think there should be more Microsoft articles on this site since Linux's market share is so trivial. Sun, 15 Oct 2006 18:35:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (NotParker) Comments http://osnews.com/thread?171909 http://osnews.com/thread?171909 Sigh.
Please post -one- message on mine, in which I said -anything- about Linux's (or Firefox's) market share.

- Gilboa Sun, 15 Oct 2006 18:54:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (gilboa) Comments http://osnews.com/thread?171921 http://osnews.com/thread?171921 .... Why am I even bothering to answer (or even read) you post?
Sigh. I -should- know better.

/-1 to self for not ignoring the village idiot.

- Gilboa Sun, 15 Oct 2006 19:43:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (gilboa) Comments http://osnews.com/thread?172022 http://osnews.com/thread?172022 Never trust any statistics unless you've forged them yourself... Mon, 16 Oct 2006 07:54:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (flywheel) Comments http://osnews.com/thread?172024 http://osnews.com/thread?172024 Oh - seems like you are blinded by your hatred of Linux. Mon, 16 Oct 2006 08:00:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (flywheel) Comments