http://www.osnews.com/story/16239/Yellow_Dog_Linux_on_the_PlayStation_3 Exploring the Future of Computing en-us Copyright 2001-2009, David Adams adam+nospam@osnews.com Sun, 05 Jul 2009 18:09:31 GMT http://www.osnews.com/images/osnews.gif http://www.osnews.com http://osnews.com/thread?173210 http://osnews.com/thread?173210 This is THE reason that I will buy a PS3. $600 is dirt cheap for such a Cell processor with a top-of-the-line NVidia graphics chipset.

Anyone know if OpenGL drives work in YDL? Thu, 19 Oct 2006 21:58:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (tbcpp) Comments http://osnews.com/thread?173216 http://osnews.com/thread?173216 Anyone know if OpenGL drives work in YDL?

Hmm, you'd need a special one compiled by NVidia. No idea if they plan on releasing one or not, but I doubt it since they've never released any PPC drivers before.

On the other hand, maybe Sony will provide one?Edited 2006-10-19 22:17 Thu, 19 Oct 2006 22:05:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (smitty) Comments http://osnews.com/thread?173223 http://osnews.com/thread?173223 This is big news and makes the pricetag start to seem pretty cheap.

Now if Sony could provide some similarly open options for PSP homebrew and ends the tug of war with the hacker community they would vastly increase their userbase and credibility. Thu, 19 Oct 2006 22:25:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (zetsurin) Comments http://osnews.com/thread?173235 http://osnews.com/thread?173235 The real question is how much access to the hardware will sony allow. Enough to be useful? How much access would sony have to allow for this to be really cool ?

i really dont know.... Thu, 19 Oct 2006 22:43:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (techlush) Comments http://osnews.com/thread?173237 http://osnews.com/thread?173237 Well, since this is Linux/GPL and not BSD one would have to assume that nothing could be hidden? Thu, 19 Oct 2006 22:47:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (zetsurin) Comments http://osnews.com/thread?173238 http://osnews.com/thread?173238 Wrong, the GPL(2) allows everything to be hidden, like Tivo does. That is the main difference that the new GPLv3 would bring about. Thu, 19 Oct 2006 22:50:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (smitty) Comments http://osnews.com/thread?173241 http://osnews.com/thread?173241 A, uhm, friend of mine has this dilemma.

Lets say that he is a linux buff with about $600-$800 to spare on the essentials of a new generation computer - the cpu, mainboard, memory and gpu. His old box is starting to lagg behind a bit, being a three year old 2000something+ Athlon system. The money will more or less buy an X2 dual core CPU, a gig of RAM, a mobo and a midrange GF gpu. Disks, drives and peripherials are simply interhited.

A new x86 X2 computer or a new PS3?

The x86 system is clearly a general purpose machine, used for development, communication, education, multimedia playback and casual gaming etc. The old system is ok for the basics, but for for instance multimedia creation and editing or modern gaming it is a bit too slow. A new machine is needed to keep up with the intended tasks the owner has with a computer.

The PS3 on the other hand is a pretty hard core gaming box. But it will also play various media, including hidef (the owner has a CRT TV that can display 1080i signals, and they sure look great), and supposedly run Linux which opens up a world of retro games emulation and general purpose computing, or does it? Does anyone know anything about the signed binaries issue? Do you think 256 megs of RAM enough to run a functional desktop? Can it be hooked up to a computer LCD monitor with DVI?

To rephrase my question a little, what sort of tasks normally done by a desktop computer do you expect (from what you now about the PS3 and Cell at this time) the PS3 will actually accomplish better than a similarly priced x86 upgrade, apart from gaming?Edited 2006-10-19 23:02 Thu, 19 Oct 2006 22:58:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (korpenkraxar) Comments http://osnews.com/thread?173273 http://osnews.com/thread?173273 To rephrase my question a little, what sort of tasks normally done by a desktop computer do you expect (from what you now about the PS3 and Cell at this time) the PS3 will actually accomplish better than a similarly priced x86 upgrade, apart from gaming?

That's the whole point. It doesn't have to do it better. If it can do the same as the x86 upgrade AND play games, it is aleady a better a deal! Fri, 20 Oct 2006 01:40:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (fretinator) Comments http://osnews.com/thread?173279 http://osnews.com/thread?173279 Will Sony actually allow the Linux-loving public to actually access the Blu-Ray drive? Especially since they're so enthusiastic about DRM? Fri, 20 Oct 2006 02:09:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (MissinBeOS) Comments http://osnews.com/thread?173280 http://osnews.com/thread?173280 That's the whole point. It doesn't have to do it better. If it can do the same as the x86 upgrade AND play games, it is aleady a better a deal!

Unless of course the only thing it does well is games and the rest isn't up to snuff. I personally have my doubts that Sony is going to let me do whatever I want on PS3, particulary in the area of turning it into a set-top media box. Fri, 20 Oct 2006 02:11:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (atezun) Comments http://osnews.com/thread?173290 http://osnews.com/thread?173290 I'd just like to point out that I think it would be a bit of a mistake to get all top of the line stuff but not upgrade the hard disk. Least that's my opinion. Fri, 20 Oct 2006 02:47:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Mathman) Comments http://osnews.com/thread?173297 http://osnews.com/thread?173297 Anyone know if OpenGL drives work in YDL?

This is a key question and the answer is not in the interview. The points about E17 not needing OpenGL make me wonder if it is missing.

As for plans on turning it into a set top box, what are you going to do for an HDTV tuner? You need a USB HD tuner with cable card and some way of getting around the DRM crap so that you can view the content that you paid for. Hack ATI's OCUR?

No access to HD, BlueRay and OpenGL will mean no buy for me. It is a shame because this box has real potential. Let's hope for the best. Fri, 20 Oct 2006 03:15:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (jonsmirl) Comments http://osnews.com/thread?173304 http://osnews.com/thread?173304 Hmm...

Does Linux even support Dlu-Ray yet?
If so, where are the drivers?

From the sound of things, the PS3 wont have Linux pre-installed at all but rather have an embedeed OS with a interface much like Xbox 360's?

I bet Linux will only become a third-party option that must be purchased like it was with the PS2. That would make the PS3 less special because one can install 3rd party Linux on an original Xbox; support for Linux on the 360 is underway from what I've read. Fri, 20 Oct 2006 03:50:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Xaero_Vincent) Comments http://osnews.com/thread?173317 http://osnews.com/thread?173317 They have already announced that YDL will be available for free download two weeks after the DVD release. And Gentoo already has a PS3/Cell port underway.

Linux is officially sanctioned for the PS3 so it's a completely different situation than existed on the Xbox. Fri, 20 Oct 2006 05:00:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (ThePettyTyrant) Comments http://osnews.com/thread?173330 http://osnews.com/thread?173330 And Gentoo already has a PS3/Cell port underway.

who sais that?Edited 2006-10-20 06:04 Fri, 20 Oct 2006 06:03:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (mrothe) Comments http://osnews.com/thread?173332 http://osnews.com/thread?173332 Gentoo does
http://www.gentoo.org/news/en/gwn/20060807-newsletter.xml Fri, 20 Oct 2006 06:10:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (ThePettyTyrant) Comments http://osnews.com/thread?173342 http://osnews.com/thread?173342 and what about debian? does anyone know anything about debian on PS3/Cell? Fri, 20 Oct 2006 07:53:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Difool) Comments http://osnews.com/thread?173348 http://osnews.com/thread?173348 Gentoo does http://www.gentoo.org/news/en/gwn/20060807-newsletter.xml

it sais that lu_zero added the IBM CELL SDK which simulates a dual CELL machine. and yes, we have crossdev and so a working toolchain (gcc/glibc/binutils/linux-headers). There is no gentoo project actualy working on the PlayStation3. We don't have early access to the consoles like Terrasoft. Toolchain is only one part of the whole "Gentoo on PlayStation3" thing. Fri, 20 Oct 2006 08:22:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (mrothe) Comments http://osnews.com/thread?173372 http://osnews.com/thread?173372 PS3 seems like a much better proposition than last week. Fri, 20 Oct 2006 11:25:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (REMF) Comments http://osnews.com/thread?173373 http://osnews.com/thread?173373 No they don't and they will not. Sony don't want to risk their Gamesbusiness, although i don't think that would be very likely even if they did.

It is the same as with PS2 and even NetYaroze (their programmable PS1): they will prevent everything to happen that would make quality 3d games possible. Fri, 20 Oct 2006 11:28:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Alleister) Comments http://osnews.com/thread?173374 http://osnews.com/thread?173374 Most likely not. Have a look at PS2 Linux, that about what you get. No Hardware 3D, no BlueRay Movies. Fri, 20 Oct 2006 11:34:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Alleister) Comments http://osnews.com/thread?173424 http://osnews.com/thread?173424 Since Yellowdog and other various Linux distros will run on the PS3, I assume it automatically supports USB Keyboard/Mouse connections. And, if that's the case, then is it really true that you can play the games with such controls?? If so I am SOLD.

I will sell my Core Duo PC right now on eBay. I would imagine that this is really up to the game designers to implement Keyboard/Mouse controls for the game IF they designed the game that way in the first place.

I have heard the rumours, now I want facts! Anyone want to chime in here?

Argument: Sure everyone knows that the latest PC's on the market are faster than the PS3, and that they can do more as a computer.

However, for me personally I really use my PC at home for the normal stuff: Browse the web, check my email, chat, download demos and run the latest 3D games available. Which is the whole reason I spent $2,500 on it with the best video card etc...

Problem with that scenario is the best PC games only come around every year or so. PS3 games will be every month!

Point is, if the PS3 can do the routine stuff like email, web, chat and also the run best games on the market with multimedia funtionality and more, it's a steal...... Fri, 20 Oct 2006 15:01:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Aztecsurf) Comments http://osnews.com/thread?173444 http://osnews.com/thread?173444 And, if that's the case, then is it really true that you can play the games with such controls?? If so I am SOLD.

The Dreamcast and Xbox (with a simple peripheral) supported keyboards and mice for their first person shooters. Fri, 20 Oct 2006 15:58:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (eMagius) Comments http://osnews.com/thread?173469 http://osnews.com/thread?173469 Sorry, but what OS/free games could threaten PS3 "native" games? Sure, you could probably have Doom and possibly more advanced games (I'm no expert) run on the PS3, but they would be a far cry from what the new PS3 games are supposed to look like.

I also suspect that the hacker/Linux user and game enthusiast markets (/demographics) are quite separate: do you think the average teenager who bought the PS3 for the latest and greatest games is going to run a Linux distro to get homebrew games? I don't think so.

rehdon Fri, 20 Oct 2006 16:40:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Rehdon) Comments http://osnews.com/thread?173474 http://osnews.com/thread?173474 You do get access to the 3D library in PS2 for Linux. The only thing you don't get is access to the DVD drive. Fri, 20 Oct 2006 16:53:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (rayiner) Comments http://osnews.com/thread?173502 http://osnews.com/thread?173502 I was wondering how it might be possible to get some rather good graphics even without full 3d acceleration on the PS3. If done correctly a Mesa implementation should be just as powerfuly (if not more) than a 8 pipeline GPU which means GF6200 quality? The only bottleneck here would be the system memory to screen bandwidth. But still, some pretty snazzy games should still be possible. Fri, 20 Oct 2006 18:01:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (tbcpp) Comments http://osnews.com/thread?173505 http://osnews.com/thread?173505 "We don't have early access to the consoles like Terrasoft. Toolchain is only one part of the whole "Gentoo on PlayStation3" thing."
It will be coming after launch. Fri, 20 Oct 2006 18:05:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (ThePettyTyrant) Comments http://osnews.com/thread?173557 http://osnews.com/thread?173557 I'd have to agree with this in many repsects. Although I do hope that the hardware will be available, an optimized (and ideally dynamically-compiled) software rendering implimentation could do quite well on the Cell CPU. Of the 7 SPEs available, reserving 2 for geometry (vertex) processing, 4 for pixel processing, and leaving the last to other tasks could yield good results. Certainly not top-of-the-line, but I would estimate something akin to a radeon 9600 or Geforce 4 level of capability. Originally, Sony had hoped that that a multi-cell system would be capable of handling graphics -- which would have likely been true if things had continued at the pace they were 5 years ago, but there was an explosion in graphics power brought about by nVidea and particularly ATI.

Graphics is one of the few tasks that the SPEs *really* excel at. It's not branchy, it's spacialy localized, it lends itself to DMA and it's embarressingly parallel... Depending on the color depth you want to support you could get 4, 8 or even 16 "pixel pipelines" out of 4 SPEs (128bit/HDR, 64bit/half-HDR or 32bit respectively, assuming that the SPEs support integer and half-floats.)

Can you tell that software rendering is a bit of a hobby for me? Fri, 20 Oct 2006 21:17:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Ravyne) Comments http://osnews.com/thread?173568 http://osnews.com/thread?173568 [quote]To rephrase my question a little, what sort of tasks normally done by a desktop computer do you expect (from what you now about the PS3 and Cell at this time) the PS3 will actually accomplish better than a similarly priced x86 upgrade, apart from gaming? [/quote]

Blu-ray Sure, I am not at all interested in buying movies in this format, but if you have a Netflix suscription, it would be cool to be able to rent 'em. Fri, 20 Oct 2006 22:36:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (WorknMan) Comments http://osnews.com/thread?173599 http://osnews.com/thread?173599 I said that i don't think it is likely to happen, but obviously that seems to be Sonys concerns. They even admitted it in the NetYaroze days and i think that is why they are so desperate in trying to prevent homebrew software in the PSP.

Pitty, a PSP would be actually interesting if it could run my own programms.


I would take any bet that there aren't going to be Hardwareaccelerated 3D Drivers on PS3 Linux and the way the Terra Soft guys are emphasizing that they don't need OpenGL for fancy effects on their desktop is very suspicious. Sat, 21 Oct 2006 01:22:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Alleister) Comments http://osnews.com/thread?173601 http://osnews.com/thread?173601 I don't own one as i have no use for a console, but that is contrary to what i have heard and read.

Do you know that first hand? Sat, 21 Oct 2006 01:23:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Alleister) Comments http://osnews.com/thread?173616 http://osnews.com/thread?173616 Nvidia has released PPC drivers in the past, Macs used PPC CPUs and were running Nvidia GPUs in many cases, so that is not the issue. The problem is, unless Sony supports the initiative of a Linux distribution for the PS3, Nvidia will not release a driver. Why would they bite the hand that feeds them?
Linux drivers are a necessity to sell high end Quadro cards, as many graphics heavy companies run Linux nowadays, but YDL?!...with 256 MB of RAM. Sony would have to pay or support that development. Sat, 21 Oct 2006 03:40:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (dawser) Comments http://osnews.com/thread?173639 http://osnews.com/thread?173639 Sony supports Linux on PS3. They provided the PS3 kits to Terra Soft.
I work in the videogames industry, and I can tell you that at this point is not easy to get those kits from Sony. Sat, 21 Oct 2006 08:27:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (peskanov) Comments http://osnews.com/thread?173670 http://osnews.com/thread?173670 Nvidia has released PPC drivers in the past, Macs used PPC CPUs and were running Nvidia GPUs in many cases, so that is not the issue.

yes, it *is* an issue. just because there are drivers from nvidia for Mac OS X this means nothing for Linux drivers. You wouldn't say that drivers are no issue on Linux/x86 if there exists an Windows driver for the device, would you?

I don't think we will ever see Linux/PPC64 drivers from nvidia. Sat, 21 Oct 2006 14:08:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (mrothe) Comments http://osnews.com/thread?173711 http://osnews.com/thread?173711 In response to someone saying since they mention they don't need OpenGL for their effects that it is suspicious. They say they don't need it because E17 doesn't typically use it. You could say the same thing on a distribution for a general purpose computer (like elive) and still have OpenGL drivers.Edited 2006-10-21 20:53 Sat, 21 Oct 2006 20:50:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (smoke) Comments http://osnews.com/thread?173731 http://osnews.com/thread?173731 If they have access to the hardware specs they could be banging the hardware directly and accessing the 3d stuff independently of OpenGL drivers. Sun, 22 Oct 2006 01:07:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (SamuraiCrow) Comments