http://www.osnews.com/story/17172/Microsoft_Raises_Support_Fees_for_Windows_Office Exploring the Future of Computing en-us Copyright 2001-2009, David Adams adam+nospam@osnews.com Wed, 25 Nov 2009 09:51:04 GMT http://www.osnews.com/images/osnews.gif http://www.osnews.com http://osnews.com/thread?209450 http://osnews.com/thread?209450 Even if you have a retail version you have to pay after 90 days? Not that most peoples hould even need to call in with google around, but if so, it is still very disappointing to hear.

Though I'm sure managing the volume of calls they receive is tough. Mon, 05 Feb 2007 22:04:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (sappyvcv) Comments http://osnews.com/thread?209455 http://osnews.com/thread?209455 It wold seem logical with all the money rolling in from Vista they could actually lower costs. Blame it on Steve G. and Linus T. Mon, 05 Feb 2007 22:07:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (aGNUstic) Comments http://osnews.com/thread?209477 http://osnews.com/thread?209477 It wold seem logical with all the money rolling in from Vista they could actually lower costs. Blame it on Steve G. and Linus T.

Who is Steve G? Is he a rapper? Mon, 05 Feb 2007 23:18:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (fretinator) Comments http://osnews.com/thread?209479 http://osnews.com/thread?209479 J

Sorry. Mon, 05 Feb 2007 23:20:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (aGNUstic) Comments http://osnews.com/thread?209480 http://osnews.com/thread?209480 Just kidding, happens to all of us. Come to think of it, maybe Steve J is a Shrink Rapper! Mon, 05 Feb 2007 23:21:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (fretinator) Comments http://osnews.com/thread?209481 http://osnews.com/thread?209481 ...because we all know that Microsoft has one foot in bankruptcy court. This company certainly has turned "milking the customer" into an art form hasn't it? It's bad enough it has foisted its software onto a captive audience. Now, it's nickel and diming them to death. I'm glad I don't use Office or Windows any longer. Mon, 05 Feb 2007 23:25:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (cmost) Comments http://osnews.com/thread?209482 http://osnews.com/thread?209482 Blame it on the weatherman...
MS seems to do it's best to repel all customers with lower incomes. Maybye they wish to become sort of elitist softmare vendors? Or maybye they just wish to sqeeze their customers dry? Either way, every other software developers (GNU/Linux devs in particular) only gain from this decision. Mon, 05 Feb 2007 23:26:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Punktyras) Comments http://osnews.com/thread?209484 http://osnews.com/thread?209484 Imagine the conversation that prompted this:
Microsoft employee: Linux is now a direct competitor. Look how much redhat charges for support, we can now raise our prices while appearing equally competitive.
Microsoft executive: Sounds like a great idea. This way we can make even more money by selling a defective product.

But this is somewhat misleading because most people get support from their OEM who may not charge anything at all, as long as you continue using Microsoft-only products. I recall a fun chat I had with off-shore support because I could not access safe mode with FreeBSD's boot0: "do you know how to reinstall windows?" I'm just hoping that the premium paid by RHEL users who require support translates to better service. Mon, 05 Feb 2007 23:31:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (theeil) Comments http://osnews.com/thread?209485 http://osnews.com/thread?209485 It's great running a business with no competition isn't it? Just keep on raising the prices and we have to swallow it. Mon, 05 Feb 2007 23:39:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (alspnost) Comments http://osnews.com/thread?209500 http://osnews.com/thread?209500 So you get to pay $60 to speak with someone in india to try and work around a bug in their software. Brilliant!

Line up and get ready to be milked (some more) Tue, 06 Feb 2007 00:55:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Bit_Rapist) Comments http://osnews.com/thread?209511 http://osnews.com/thread?209511 ...because we all know that Microsoft has one foot in bankruptcy court.

We wish. Microsoft are safe-ish for the foreseeable future even if they don't shape up, and they have in the past. I personally don't think much of the company's strategy at any time, but it's undeniable they eventually woke up to the Web, for example.

If worst comes to worst and they don't improve with Ballmer at the helm, Gates might "pull a Dell" as someone put it. (Though it would be more accurate to say that Michael Dell "pulled a Jobs".) And if they get bought by a competitor with a clue, Windows might be around for quite a while yet. We always wondered about Microsoft Linux. Anyone for Red Hat or Unbreakable Windows? [EDIT: Now THAT would be a funny name!]Edited 2007-02-06 01:13 Tue, 06 Feb 2007 01:12:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (twenex) Comments http://osnews.com/thread?209512 http://osnews.com/thread?209512 Yet another great idea from the Vice-President of Microsoft's Great Stupid Ideas Division (a lifetime friend of the Minister for Silly Walks).

Seriously, the Windoze monopoly sucks. Whole countries that are run this badly get blacklisted. Tue, 06 Feb 2007 01:15:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (twenex) Comments http://osnews.com/thread?209527 http://osnews.com/thread?209527 Sure, if you take into account the huge quality progress undergone thru Vista and Office 2007 which are almost totally bug-free, it means that in fact customers will need to call much less often to solve incidents.

So Microsoft is in fact lowering its prices...

I use Ubuntu and I smile folks.... Tue, 06 Feb 2007 01:43:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (roger64) Comments http://osnews.com/thread?209529 http://osnews.com/thread?209529 Sure, if you take into account the huge quality progress undergone thru Vista and Office 2007 which are almost totally bug-free, it means that in fact customers will need to call much less often to solve incidents.

That must be some powerful weed they smoke on your planet. Even if it were true, how do you think that would sell, anyway? "We made it less buggy, so we had to charge you more for each individual incident?"

To me and most rational people that must surely sound like "we had to make sure we keep ripping you off left, right and centre". Tue, 06 Feb 2007 02:00:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (twenex) Comments http://osnews.com/thread?209540 http://osnews.com/thread?209540 ...Or, they've planted a whole heap of really annoying bugs in Windows Vista (UAC, Aero, WGA anyone?) and now hike the support costs, wait for 90 days, send out a critical Windows Update to unlock the 'features' then retire on the support lines' income.

Cynic? What cynic? Tue, 06 Feb 2007 02:41:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (stestagg) Comments http://osnews.com/thread?209544 http://osnews.com/thread?209544 I'm thinking due all the bad Vista publicity their estimated sales figures are down. Since windows and office is their bread and butter they need to make revenue somewhere else. Tue, 06 Feb 2007 02:58:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Yomama) Comments http://osnews.com/thread?209548 http://osnews.com/thread?209548 Oh please, enough with this BS.

Microsoft provides MORE than ample support online. This is for call-ins only, how many times have you felt the need to call Microsoft for support? Tue, 06 Feb 2007 03:12:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (CPUGuy) Comments http://osnews.com/thread?209554 http://osnews.com/thread?209554 "This way we can make even more money by selling a defective product."

I was waiting for a comment like this to appear on this thread, lo and behold it was the second one.

MS doesn't make any money from their consumer level support; it's a huge cost center for them and they actually lose money every time they answer a support call which is why they push their online no cost support options so hard (newsgroups, KB's, etc).

When I worked in PSS back in '02, average cost per call was over 500 bucks (factor in employee salary, infrastructure costs, etc and it shouldn't be hard to see why).

The OEM's are worthless and usually push off calls to MS in the end anyways. Regardless, that 60 bucks guarantees you a solution, or you get a refund. Turns out to be a legitimate bug? Refund.

*yawn* Tue, 06 Feb 2007 03:59:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (jayson.knight) Comments http://osnews.com/thread?209563 http://osnews.com/thread?209563 I think he was being sarcastic... Tue, 06 Feb 2007 04:54:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (archiesteel) Comments http://osnews.com/thread?209568 http://osnews.com/thread?209568 This is for call-ins only, how many times have you felt the need to call Microsoft for support?

Probably the same number of times you can't use online support because your system isn't working... Tue, 06 Feb 2007 05:41:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (thebluesgnr) Comments http://osnews.com/thread?209572 http://osnews.com/thread?209572 LOL i hope that was a bad Joke cause if anything Mr.Jobs and Mr.Torvald are the only things remotely keeping MS from really giving it too us. Tue, 06 Feb 2007 05:51:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (tweakedenigma) Comments http://osnews.com/thread?209580 http://osnews.com/thread?209580 That'll be 'zero' then. Tue, 06 Feb 2007 06:19:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Rayz) Comments http://osnews.com/thread?209588 http://osnews.com/thread?209588 The cost for support is part of what the consumer pays for, it is the cost of doing business. The consumer also pays for Mr. Gates foundation as well as MS employee salaries. Consumers pay for all this along with the privilage of spending large sums of money for buggy software. OEM's are worhless because they push off calls to MS because of software issues? MS fanboys are annoying enough, but MS shills are elitist snobs.

After the "free" support period is over, consumers can of course choose to pay 60 bucks per call, or find another source of support or education. So be it, but I would think that MS would be more interested in solidifying a warm and friendly relationship with their customers duirng a time when the competiton is growing and doing a far better job with satisfying their respective customers. Tue, 06 Feb 2007 06:54:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (tpaws) Comments http://osnews.com/thread?209596 http://osnews.com/thread?209596 "The cost for support is part of what the consumer pays for, it is the cost of doing business."

In this case, the price for the 90 day warranty support is built into the cost of the product, hence why retail versions cost more than an OEM version (which comes with zero warranty support). 90 days is plenty of time for a customer to call in as many times as they need to get their system up and running. This new system is actually better than the old way; previously a retail version of Windows came with 2 free calls...any more than that and the customer had to pay.

"The consumer also pays for Mr. Gates foundation as well as MS employee salaries."

Actually, stockholders are who indirectly pay for Gates' foundation, not consumers. Even moreso, it is Gates himself who pays, as it was he who purchased his own stock in the first place. His salary (which consumers do directly pay for) is less than .1% the amount he donates to charity each year, i.e. that's all paid for out of his own pocket.

"Consumers pay for all this along with the privilage of spending large sums of money for buggy software."

As opposed to getting buggy software for free? For most companies and consumers, the cost of a license is worth the guarantee of getting something fixed should it break. And as I stated before, if it's a bug, there is no cost to the consumer...MS absorbs that cost 100%.

"MS fanboys are annoying enough, but MS shills are elitist snobs."

Fine, I'm a shill/snob, but am also factually correct. At no point did I sink to the level of name calling in my response.

"So be it, but I would think that MS would be more interested in solidifying a warm and friendly relationship with their customers..."

MS regularly gets high marks when it comes to customer support (> 90% customer satisfaction), much higher than almost all other software vendors. Much higher than most call centers period. I'd like to know which competition you're speaking of, as well as their options/prices for their comparable products, as well as their overall CSAT (customer satisfaction) ratings. Then we'll compare apples to apples rather than vague assertions. Tue, 06 Feb 2007 07:56:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (jayson.knight) Comments http://osnews.com/thread?209616 http://osnews.com/thread?209616 Omnce. It was for my dad. He had a working system and wanted more memory. The system board didn't support that so we got a new board. All fine and dandy, swapped boards. Now, a STOP error was encountered. Now ay to boot the system anymore.

Googling left us with "maybe a virus" which obviously wasn't the case as the old system boots just fine.

Calling the support, they came up with a brilliant answer:

"reinstall windows"

It was the first _and_ the last time I called MS support...... Tue, 06 Feb 2007 10:27:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (linux-it) Comments http://osnews.com/thread?209618 http://osnews.com/thread?209618 After the "free" support period is over, consumers can of course choose to pay 60 bucks per call, or find another source of support or education. So be it, but I would think that MS would be more interested in solidifying a warm and friendly relationship with their customers duirng a time when the competiton is growing and doing a far better job with satisfying their respective customers.

Chortle. You know that email from Jim Allchin in which he says he would buy a Mac if he weren't a Microsoftie and Microsoft had lost their "customer focus"? Well, I've never been involved in MSDN which people say is Da Bomb, but as a consumer that last part made me think maybe he actually sent it sometime between the release of Win98 and that of WinME.

OEM's are worthless, but I never had a single call passed to MS; it was always "oh, nobody knows why that happens; reboot/reinstall." Tue, 06 Feb 2007 10:52:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (twenex) Comments http://osnews.com/thread?209620 http://osnews.com/thread?209620 Agreed, imagine a world where the only choice would be Windows XP or Vista.
Microsoft could screw you over senselessly and you would have nothing else to do but pay up.
This Windows only world would be an ideal place for jason.Knight Tue, 06 Feb 2007 10:57:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (raver31) Comments http://osnews.com/thread?209621 http://osnews.com/thread?209621 Could be, could be. Tue, 06 Feb 2007 10:57:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (twenex) Comments http://osnews.com/thread?209644 http://osnews.com/thread?209644 "MS regularly gets high marks when it comes to customer support (> 90% customer satisfaction), much higher than almost all other software vendors...."

According to ACSI (http://www.theacsi.org/), MS scored 73%, so I must question your "factually correct" assertion.

"At no point did I sink to the level of name calling in my response."

The arrogant tone of your posts doesn't get you a pass.

As for the rest of your specious arguments, no matter how you cut it, the consumer pays, including shareholders return on investment. Of course "For most companies and consumers, the cost of a license is worth the guarantee of getting something fixed should it break", but to say that "MS absorbs that cost 100%" is "factually" incorrect. Tue, 06 Feb 2007 13:24:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (tpaws) Comments http://osnews.com/thread?209645 http://osnews.com/thread?209645 Why would you call support for that?

I will tell you right now, NT does not bode well to motherboard changes. Tue, 06 Feb 2007 13:42:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (CPUGuy) Comments http://osnews.com/thread?209647 http://osnews.com/thread?209647 Anyone who knows me knows that I am rabidly anti-McSoft. :-) Tue, 06 Feb 2007 14:09:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (aGNUstic) Comments http://osnews.com/thread?209648 http://osnews.com/thread?209648 I used to work as a Microsoft Enterprise Technical Router until last year and you would be surprised regarding the number of calls that Microsoft support centers get on a daily basis, ranging from large companies with huge and complex problems to end users having problems to locate their e-mails or asking how to change their wallpaper.

However, I don´t think that the same fees apply in my country although those call were definitely charged after some sort of "grace period". Tue, 06 Feb 2007 14:12:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (DeadFishMan) Comments http://osnews.com/thread?209649 http://osnews.com/thread?209649 You're making the mistake of assuming that everyone is calling about a bug in Windows. More often than not it's just someone not being able to figure something out or not knowing how to do something. Tue, 06 Feb 2007 14:15:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (sappyvcv) Comments http://osnews.com/thread?209650 http://osnews.com/thread?209650 What did McDonalds' software division ever do to you?! Tue, 06 Feb 2007 14:21:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (sappyvcv) Comments http://osnews.com/thread?209656 http://osnews.com/thread?209656 That would fix it.

You'd have to go to device manager and remove all the ACPI stuff. Tue, 06 Feb 2007 14:50:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (eggs) Comments http://osnews.com/thread?209657 http://osnews.com/thread?209657 You know Apple also charges $59 an incident? I can't find Redhat's pricing data but I would bet its similar. Tue, 06 Feb 2007 14:52:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (eggs) Comments http://osnews.com/thread?209659 http://osnews.com/thread?209659 So their prices are now inline with their competition. Apple already charges $59/incident and the only figure I can find for novel is $600/incident, but I'm assuming thats for server support and not desktop (hopefully). I can't find any prices posted by redhat.

So, to recap Microsoft isn't charging anymore than anyone else and most people have support from their OEM anyway. Tue, 06 Feb 2007 14:56:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (eggs) Comments http://osnews.com/thread?209663 http://osnews.com/thread?209663 Gutter food at a quality price. Tue, 06 Feb 2007 15:21:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (aGNUstic) Comments http://osnews.com/thread?209996 http://osnews.com/thread?209996 "This Windows only world would be an ideal place for jason.Knight."

I'm mildly amused. It would humor most to know that I run OSX as my main (non-job related) OS. I make my living writing software with/for MS products, so I do have a slant in their direction, however I don't base my career on decisions made by other companies...if I did that, I'd have gotten out of the computer biz a long time ago. Wed, 07 Feb 2007 06:10:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (jayson.knight) Comments http://osnews.com/thread?210449 http://osnews.com/thread?210449 So.. they forced you to eat food? What's that got to do with software? Thu, 08 Feb 2007 05:25:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (sappyvcv) Comments