http://www.osnews.com/story/17446/Has_A_R_Finally_Become_a_Reality_ Exploring the Future of Computing en-us Copyright 2001-2009, David Adams adam+nospam@osnews.com Wed, 25 Nov 2009 09:58:11 GMT http://www.osnews.com/images/osnews.gif http://www.osnews.com http://osnews.com/thread?219317 http://osnews.com/thread?219317 Having more natural/direct controllers is one thing, but it seems to me that integration of graphics is vital for something to be really called AR, i.e. augmenting a view on the real world with computer graphics. With the Wii and iPhone everything you see is still on a separate screen. It's cool but it doesn't fit the definition of 'augmented reality' in my opinion. Wed, 07 Mar 2007 19:01:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (brecht) Comments http://osnews.com/thread?219322 http://osnews.com/thread?219322 True A.R. will come evetually I think, but to get there, the mouse will have to go first. A screen-in-the-air would be a pain to use if you had to stand there trying to interact with the data with a trackball in your hand instead of reaching out and 'grabbing' the data.

I think that the Wii & iPhone are A.R., but just primitive A.R. The way the Wii allows you to swing a golf club in the game, but have the feeling of a golf club in your hands by having something to hold, and move in direct correlation with the virtual world is a form of A.R. imo. Things have a long way to go, but it's all exciting! Wed, 07 Mar 2007 19:09:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Kroc) Comments http://osnews.com/thread?219325 http://osnews.com/thread?219325 I cannot agree the iPhone or the Wii can be seen as augmenting reality.

True augmented reality will happen when technology like Gibson's "Neuromancer" - simstims, jacking, now that is cool. Wed, 07 Mar 2007 19:18:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Wintermute) Comments http://osnews.com/thread?219330 http://osnews.com/thread?219330 > it seems to me that integration of graphics is vital for
> something to be really called AR

Indeed. We need glasses or contact lenses with integrated displays, preferably with depth of field, lest our eyes will go way worse way faster than they do now.

Then we need head/eye tracking. And I mean seriously good tracking. I've been inside the VR cube at KTH in Sweden, and with the tracker it had it felt like my eyes were on rubber bands; when I moved my head the display was updated some 100-400 milliseconds later. This causes nausea in most people. We need to be talking microseconds instead of milliseconds here. Especially if the display is on contact lenses, because of the saccadic eye movements.

It would also be nice to have some kind of tracking of external objects, making computer graphics overlays possible, but I guess that's even farther down the road. Wed, 07 Mar 2007 19:24:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (msundman) Comments http://osnews.com/thread?219341 http://osnews.com/thread?219341 Comes from a good cup of java (not Java). YMMV Wed, 07 Mar 2007 20:04:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (fretinator) Comments http://osnews.com/thread?219343 http://osnews.com/thread?219343 Hmm something like this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8Eycccww6k Wed, 07 Mar 2007 20:08:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (OSGuy) Comments http://osnews.com/thread?219350 http://osnews.com/thread?219350 Or like this
http://fastcompany.com/video/general/perceptivepixel.html (think iPhone on a 100" screen) Wed, 07 Mar 2007 20:23:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Kroc) Comments http://osnews.com/thread?219356 http://osnews.com/thread?219356 "In order for computers to evolve to the next generation, they will need to dispatch of the mouse. Pen based and voice input can provide simpler, quicker access, usable by a wider range of people."

Let us for a minute assume we perfect pen and voice recognition. Is it really better than what we have now?

I personally type much faster than i write with a pen. I also find it way easier than writing. I'd also not have to sit there and talk 50 pages just to write an essay.

The mouse is also a very good design. A pen is unquestionably better for graphic art work. I've used convertible tablet pcs where i can get the benefits of both worlds. Do I find myself more drawn to pen-mode? No, because for many tasks, I need a keyboard (see above) and the mouse is a much better companion to a keyboard than the pen (I doesn't need to touch the screen...it is a much quicker switch from keyboard to mouse...than from keyboard-pen-screen)


A common example of this is the voice-menu systems over the telephone. It used be the voice would say "press 1 for x, press 2 for y, press 3 for z". And you would press a key. Now its "tell me what you'd like to do" and you have speak to this machine. Especially at work or something, it's far more convenient to just let me press numbers than to interrupt everyone around me with me answering voice prompts.

By all means A.R is getting better and I welcome any new changes. But they have to actually have a benefit. Off the top of my head, the only thing more efficient than typing would be some kind of direct connection to the brain Wed, 07 Mar 2007 20:36:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Yamin) Comments http://osnews.com/thread?219357 http://osnews.com/thread?219357 3D may be great for demos and games, but lets not forget that human eyes are 2D input devices. Our brains may reconstruct 3D information via a number of clues, but even that reconstruction is only be partial (e.g. walls or objects may occlude my vision).

Books, signs, and graphs all encode their information in 2D because that is the only way to present all the information at a single glance. Eyes can move about a 2D interface faster than legs can walk about a 3D interface. (Information that in inherently 3D (e.g. architecture models) not withstanding.)

One qualification on this is that most GUIs include the ability for objects to overlap or stack on top of each other. Good interface design often revolves around how to use these sorts of tricks to hide the information when the user doesn't want it (e.g. menu collapsed or a window behind another one) but still show it when the user does want it (e.g. menu expands, etc). The information is still 2D but it is a mangaged 2D with occlusion and hiding that you might have in a 3D world. I belive the future of user interfaces lies not in 3D but in developing these (2+epsilon)D interfaces to make it easier for the user to navigate information and applications. I for one would like to be able to just think at a menu to have it open or to switch between the window I'm reading from and the one I'm writing notes in. Wed, 07 Mar 2007 20:39:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (mdmkolbe) Comments http://osnews.com/thread?219379 http://osnews.com/thread?219379 Voice has been slow because the computer has not yet been able to understand us more fluently, and nor has an OS been developed that is not trying to replace the mouse pointer with the voice

For example, what's quicker?
Saying "Computer, play the 25 highest rated songs that were last played on tuesday please",

or saying the clicks out loud - "Start, All Programs, iTunes... File, New Smart Playlist..."

And to iterate your phone menu system; again current systems are no more than replacing clicks or buttons, not /real/ speech. In the future, you could expect to just say "I'd like to talk to the finance department please" and instantly be taken to the right place without silly menus.Edited 2007-03-07 21:17 Wed, 07 Mar 2007 21:15:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Kroc) Comments http://osnews.com/thread?219434 http://osnews.com/thread?219434 > "Computer, play the 25 highest rated songs that were last
> played on tuesday please"

It's good that you're polite to your computer, lest it starts playing Step by step (by New Kids on the Block) on repeat instead. :-) Wed, 07 Mar 2007 23:20:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (msundman) Comments http://osnews.com/thread?219445 http://osnews.com/thread?219445 Neal Stephenson got it right back in 92, if only someone would get around to building the technology. I want my metaverse, damn it. Wed, 07 Mar 2007 23:52:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (StephenBeDoper) Comments http://osnews.com/thread?219497 http://osnews.com/thread?219497 arquake thats great ar for you
http://wearables.unisa.edu.au/projects/ARQuake/www/

and dont forget the
http://www.tinmith.net/backpack.htm

thats some fun ar Thu, 08 Mar 2007 01:48:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (dizzey) Comments http://osnews.com/thread?219571 http://osnews.com/thread?219571 Integrating most comments in this thread, I conclude that:

-True AR involves both "augmented input" and "augmented output" to achieve an augmented interactivity.

-Augmented input could include motion sensing, touch sensing, true voice recognition (understanding of natural speech, think about Star Trek computers), eye tracking and other alternatives.

-Augmented output could include an improved desktop metaphor (3D or not), information superimposed to visual reality (glasses or contact lenses with integrated displays, but I think glasses are way more cool :>), speech and other alternatives.

It looks like current state of AR is more advanced in the input area (motion and touch at least), but as Kroc points out nicely, software (mainly OS) has to evolve a lot to embrace this kind of interactivity and use it for increased productivity. And as said by Yamin, efficiency of keyboards is difficult to beat in this context, especially in places where other people are working.

In order to truly develop AR, some technological advances have to be made, and a true benefit for users has to derive from it. I think AR will eventually develop, but how fast, only time will tell. Thu, 08 Mar 2007 09:18:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (drfelip) Comments http://osnews.com/thread?219577 http://osnews.com/thread?219577 In order for computers to evolve to the next generation, they will need to dispatch of the mouse. Pen based and voice input can provide simpler, quicker access, usable by a wider range of people.

Apart from a bit of wrist syndromes, the mouse is a damn good usability concept. It is easy to implement as a control on the computer side and it is extremly logical to use.

Voice interfaces are actually much worse. Do you imagine a train/plane full of people speaking to their laptops? An office full of people speaking to their desktops? What if the PC answers to talk in the room instead of your one? You can use some clever filtering/recognizing, OK: what if it answers to *you* talking with someone else? Do I have to begin every sentence with some "My Computer please" header? What about voice strain? And what would be the advantage of such a mess coupled with the increased development difficulty and costs?

On a sidenote, touchscreen interfaces are also subpar. See http://catb.org/jargon/html/G/gorilla-arm.html on the Jargon File for explanation.Edited 2007-03-08 09:32 Thu, 08 Mar 2007 09:29:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (devurandom) Comments http://osnews.com/thread?219580 http://osnews.com/thread?219580 Saying "Computer, play the 25 highest rated songs that were last played on tuesday please",

or saying the clicks out loud - "Start, All Programs, iTunes... File, New Smart Playlist..."

What's actually easier, nicer and maybe even faster is clicking with a mouse through the thing, expecially if you already did the smart playlist.
(I don't know how it works on iTunes, but on Amarok it would be so).

Voice interfaces? No thanks (see my other comment about it). Thu, 08 Mar 2007 09:31:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (devurandom) Comments http://osnews.com/thread?219590 http://osnews.com/thread?219590 I agree about the gorilla arm thing, our arms are much better adapted to perform small movements while resting or being supported on a desk, but I think touch recognition can bring some enhanced interactivity. Maybe a better alternative would be some kind of big touchpad integrating keyboard and mouse roles, or something similar to a laser keyboard tracking finger position and gestures. Thu, 08 Mar 2007 09:59:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (drfelip) Comments http://osnews.com/thread?219607 http://osnews.com/thread?219607 the wiimote can act as a mouse. hell, i think its used as such in most of the wii menus. Thu, 08 Mar 2007 11:27:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (hobgoblin) Comments http://osnews.com/thread?219608 http://osnews.com/thread?219608 thats the one part of this opinion piece i agree with.

hell, i sometimes wonder if not a good tablet os may even make for a good pc os as i sometimes think the desktop metaphor have become way to literal...

mind you, more often then not the underlying os do not have to change, its just the gui that have to do so.

linux, windows, mac/bsd, it can all be used, one just need to rethink the gui, the part that the user interacts with on a daily basis.

for that i find it interesting that the tablet/umpc part of vista now comes with a special gui for launching apps and some other stuff. more like their htpc gui then a desktop gui iirc.

hell, even the htpc gui works better because its more focused. movies? all are found under the movies area. pictures, sorted where you expect them to be and so on.

much more focused then the dekstop gui with its general purpose file manager.

sure, there have been inclusions in xp and vista of folders that are specifcally there to house specific kinds of files. but in vista, are they auto-updated search folders?

hmm, i need to have my gui thoughts hammered out into a coherent whole. linux (or maybe something else. but linux is a ok start) kernel, database assisted file system, file/object/action centered gui with plugin/kpart style backend. dropping the overlapping windows in favor of something that tile windows automatically for those times when one needs to move or compare stuff. Thu, 08 Mar 2007 11:41:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (hobgoblin) Comments http://osnews.com/thread?219627 http://osnews.com/thread?219627 It's called SecondLife and it's boring. Thu, 08 Mar 2007 14:00:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (stew) Comments http://osnews.com/thread?219628 http://osnews.com/thread?219628 That would be an interesting and handy approach. I think Linux is good to experiment with new GUI concepts. The problem is to find the right people to face such challenge! Thu, 08 Mar 2007 14:03:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (drfelip) Comments http://osnews.com/thread?219636 http://osnews.com/thread?219636 Sure, the wiimote can be used as a mouse, but let's be honest: as a mouse it sucks, it's far less precise than a real mouse. Thu, 08 Mar 2007 14:23:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (renox) Comments http://osnews.com/thread?219639 http://osnews.com/thread?219639 While I agree with the article that for AR to be useful, it needs a proper input device, but I fail to see which input device can be used:
- a wiimote: it's not very precise.
- voice input: not reliable especially in noisy environment, annoying for bystanders..
- pen, touch: those usually tires the hand fast.

Plus the presentation device is quite tricky: many display will induce sea-sickness for users. Thu, 08 Mar 2007 14:33:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (renox) Comments http://osnews.com/thread?219696 http://osnews.com/thread?219696 well i may have to learn to program to ever see it make any headway beyond a few drawings and ideas... Thu, 08 Mar 2007 18:25:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (hobgoblin) Comments http://osnews.com/thread?219714 http://osnews.com/thread?219714 Frankly, I think some form of sign language will be the lingua franca of the AR era.

And voice and gesture only seem less efficient, because people typically don't create and use new words and movements to communicate. Yet we make new words when programming a computer by keyboard all the time. It could even be argued that creating new words is at the heart of what programming is.

The biggest technical reason AR is not quite here yet is that latency is still an enormous problem. The system just doesn't respond to human action fast enough. Head trackers are too slow, translating complicated movement takes too long, and Immersions' 3D stylus jumps and stutters when moved too quickly (at least last time I used it). Even video through firewire has a very observable delay.

Until that nut is cracked, AR will not have really arrived. Thu, 08 Mar 2007 19:08:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (chaosvoyager) Comments http://osnews.com/thread?219790 http://osnews.com/thread?219790 I know, "if you want something done, do it yourself, but you know, ideas have power. The best programmer in the world can't bring anything really brillinant without innovative ideas. Look at Microsoft: lots of money and good programmers, lack of new ideas. A lot of projects need a lot of people working on it: programmers, designers, testers... and people thinking about goals, objectives and so. So not being a programmer isn't so bad :>)

Ideas need to be spread to be useful, communicate them. Maybe you will start a huge project, maybe a small one, maybe inspire somebody, or just start a nice discussion, like the one inside this thread, that is, by itself, a good thing. At the bottom line, speaking/writing is gratis :>) Thu, 08 Mar 2007 22:41:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (drfelip) Comments http://osnews.com/thread?219794 http://osnews.com/thread?219794 that it is, but i fear some corp will grab my ideas and run of with them before i get any kind of project going. and then sue my ass of later on... Thu, 08 Mar 2007 22:54:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (hobgoblin) Comments http://osnews.com/thread?219865 http://osnews.com/thread?219865 i'm reminded of the star trek movie where scottie picks up the mouse and yells into it.

In an office voice tech could never work to many people but at home from the couch it could be cool.Edited 2007-03-09 02:13 Fri, 09 Mar 2007 02:09:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (matthekc) Comments http://osnews.com/thread?219904 http://osnews.com/thread?219904 Right. So, for your project, you need lawyers. Lots of them. A few programmers and designers won't hurt, too, but mainly lawyers.

Have luck :>) Fri, 09 Mar 2007 08:16:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (drfelip) Comments http://osnews.com/thread?220207 http://osnews.com/thread?220207 I burst out laughing when I read the part about the iPhone being an A.R.device because it has a touch screen. What a joke.

Touchscreens have been around for a long damn time... I remember my first encounter with one back in '86. They've been in use on portable devices such as palm pilots for quite some time. This is not revolutionary at all, nor does it represent augmented reality. Sat, 10 Mar 2007 14:45:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (monkeyhead) Comments http://osnews.com/thread?220216 http://osnews.com/thread?220216 --"Voice interfaces are actually much worse. Do you imagine a train/plane full of people speaking to their laptops? An office full of people speaking to their desktops?"--

Not really different than people talking to each other, if the technology is implemented properly. I would also want a tactile trigger to let the computer know I was talking to it, and not a flight attendant, but if you do it right, speaking conversationally to anything would be pretty close to ideal. Not because it's efficient, of course, but rather that it's easily taught to humans and puts the work firmly back on the robots where it belongs. Sat, 10 Mar 2007 17:40:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (diskinetic) Comments http://osnews.com/thread?221169 http://osnews.com/thread?221169 Cool UIs dont really bring productivity unless you can connect easily to DATA. Past and Present points to

Apple unwilling to roll with Corporate environments.

http://www.iphone-converter.org/ Wed, 14 Mar 2007 03:48:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (josephclark) Comments http://osnews.com/thread?221187 http://osnews.com/thread?221187 quote:"Voice interfaces are actually much worse. Do you imagine a train/plane full of people speaking to their laptops? An office full of people speaking to their desktops?"

crazy! Get iPhone Converter http://www.iphoneconverter.com/ Wed, 14 Mar 2007 05:39:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (josephclark) Comments