Vassilis ‘vasper’ Perantzakis, of BeOS Max Edition fame, has announced that he will start work on WalterOS, the Haiku-based version of BeOS Max. “All code developed for this OS will be given to Haiku with the same MIT license 1 month after release at the latest. 50% of all income generated for us from any activity related to this OS (selling of CD and possibly memorabilia) will be donated to Haiku. Donations will not be accepted, please donate to Haiku.” The name is not final yet, so feel free to add your own proposals.
While I don’t think I’ll be using Haiku as a main OS any time soon(or possibly ever), BeOS was a nice toy to play around with, and it would be nice to have a version that wasn’t a CVS shapshot build to have.
Nice one!!!!
I’m happy Vasper wants to promote Haiku further, but I don’t think it is ready for a distro yet.
Haiku still isn’t close to being finished. I believe we are still over 6 months away ( ie: 8 months or longer from even Beta ).
I believe Vasper is better off to get his BeOS MAX 4 out, so people can use that for the time being. Also, he can include direct link to Haiku on the desktop or set Firefox browser homepage to Haiku. Somehow redirect people to the Haiku donation page.
When Haiku is closer to being done then Vasper should go ahead with releasing WalterOS.
Edited 2007-04-12 22:59
Haiku still isn’t close to being finished. I believe we are still over 6 months away ( ie: 8 months or longer from even Beta ).
I’m not going to say anything good or bad about “WalterOS”, knock it or make suggestions for improvement. His previous efforts with the illegal and freely available BeOS MAX and current Haiku version and donation pledge mean nothing to me. Vasper is a big boy and he can work it out on his own time. Succeed or fail, it’s his show.
My focus remains on seeing Haiku hit R1 and have a successful launch. If other people want to have a value added variant ready to go that’s fine but it does raise the issue of “Haiku Logo Certification”. This is something, I believe, should be addressed as a priority to ensure Haiku distributions provide a consistent and compatible “out of the box” experience.
Ok, enlighten me….how, exactly, was/is BeOSMax illegal? Especially since Access, the rightful owner of the BeOS IP, gave Vasper the green light for BeOSMax.
You’d best get your story straight before shooting off your mouth and tossing around false accusations.
Thanks for modding me down people. That’s really mature.
Ok, enlighten me….how, exactly, was/is BeOSMax illegal? Especially since Access, the rightful owner of the BeOS IP, gave Vasper the green light for BeOSMax.
We’ve been through all this before and it’s getting boring…
BeOS Max is derived from BeOS. Without a license agreement from the IP owners it’s illegal. I don’t believe Access gave Vasper a green light. From what I’ve read it’s more like letting it rumble along as it will die off when Haiku hits R1. That’s not legal. It’s letting him off the hook because it’s not worth the bother. Unless Vasper has proof or Access issue a press release to suggest otherwise that’s how it is.
Anyway, Bernd Korz got a free ride off BeOS and Zeta’s collapse was long overdue. I’m not too happy with Vasper riding off the BeOS trademark or intellectual property and, I hope, he drops all mention of this from this point on. Zeta and BeOS MAX are dead in my mind. Whether its money or attention, you can get too greedy. If he wants to succeed he should cut the crap and go totally legit or shut up.
Edited 2007-04-13 01:01
It looks like the Bernd Korz and Vasper shills are leaning on the modding down button again. Listen guys, facts are facts. Zeta and BeOS MAX are illegal, and people need to move on from that. I don’t care if Bernd Korz lands in jail or Vasper sails too close to the wind. It’s not my ass on the line.
If people really want to make something of it, letting some criminal go free and “legitimising” some warez kiddie operation doesn’t look good for Access, I doubt it’s in Dave’s remit, and I’m sure Access senior management and sharholders have the same view.
Quit with the freeloading and focus on Haiku for Gods sake…
Edited 2007-04-13 01:51
Vibe maybe people are modding you down because you continue to personally attack vasper which is against the rules here? If you don’t like his work don’t use it but calling others names isn’t helping your beloved Haiku it is unprofessional.
Vibe maybe people are modding you down because you continue to personally attack vasper which is against the rules here? If you don’t like his work don’t use it but calling others names isn’t helping your beloved Haiku it is unprofessional.
I’m just highlighting the illegal nature of BeOS MAX and the dubious nature of riding off that history. I’m keeping what I think of Vasper and his effort to myself. Anything else is in your imagination. If people hadn’t tried to excuse illegality and throw names around first I might post something different. As it stands I’m not. As I said, it’s his show. Go legit or go away. Simple.
Edited 2007-04-13 02:48
You seriously need to chill. And, are you kidding me? You’re most definitely NOT keeping your thoughts on the guy, or his project, to yourself.
In fact, why don’t you email Vasper and ask him how many cease-and-desist letters he received from Access and/or Palmsource regarding MAX Edition before publicly accusing the guy of shady programming tactics and potentially threatening accusations. I mean, it’s not like he was modifying the source and calling it Zeta, right? Or contact that guy from Access and ask him personally why he gave Vasper the OK.
You want to evangelize Haiku, great, keep at it. How about not trying to trash somebody in the process.
You seriously need to chill.
The legal and customer attitude position I’ve taken is clear and sound enough. I can’t say I care whether you agree or disagree. You’ll find out soon enough on your own.
As for Vasper and his latest effort, again, I have no comment to offer. Seriously, I’ve got other things to do. I’m just focusing on how things are. What people do with it is their business.
Personally, I think “Lefty’s” excuse for not going after Zeta (yT..or whomever) is a bit strange. And it sounds like they were trying very hard to not bring attention to themselves, for whatever the reason.
I suspect that’s part of it. That Zeta collapsed and BeOS MAX looks set to fade is convenient. Not too many people are aware of the issues, and that’s another reason why it would be better for Haiku if these ties to the past are firmly dropped as soon as possible.
Edited 2007-04-14 00:22
You could have just found a thread with something that interests you rather than bashing an idea you think is bad, people. Quite honestly, BeOSMax is probably the only thing getting any new people to look at BeOS and hopefully Haiku. Without projects like this, BeOS really would be dead. There’s not nearly enough of you “BeOS 5.03 or death” people around to make Haiku take off. If it’s going to take off, it’s going to need as much publicity as possible. Vasper’s done a great thing whether you recognize it or not. The legality of is obviously irrelevant as it always has been as long Access chooses not to pursue it unlike what they’ve done and been doing with Zeta.
Without projects like this, BeOS really would be dead.
Whatever these projects may have done in the past is irrelevant. The past is gone. Today is now. Haiku has enough going for it to succeed on its own and, seriously, that’s all it needs. And the people it will attract in the future won’t have heard or care for Zeta or BeOS MAX or, perhaps, BeOS itself.
Vibe, with every setback in the BeOS world there is likely to be an ever-diminishing circle of BeOS users as a result of the demise of Zeta. [Hang on, screw ‘fans’ – there is likely to be an increasingly diminishing circle of ordinary Joes likely to go for a BeOS when all these legal troubles filter into what passes for mainstream OS thinking]
Apart from the [now seriously] questionable legality of Zeta, I can’t understand your dismissal of anything which doesn’t have the word ‘Haiku’ in its title. A great (Be)OS will not sell itself. yT and Magnussoft spent a considerable amount of money promoting Zeta, and it gained X amount of users. How much money do the Haiku folks have in the bank?
[I say this as a Zeta owner btw – I think it’s the best BeOS so far]
I am afraid the cost of legal action against yellowTab would be too much for Access to excuse. They wouldn’t profit from it and companies are about profit.
As to why now? Well, Bernd said that he would think about opensourcing parts of Zeta he developed and David (head of OpenSource at Access) had to step in so no derived work is entered in to a clean opensource system. Derived work is Zeta (until Bernd proves otherwise).
BeOS Max is not derived work because no code is used from the original BeOS. Binaries are NOT considered derived work. All extra code included is either GLP, MIT or BSD licensed and not proprietary IP.
As to BeOS Max fading into the background I couldn’t be happier when it does. That would mean Haiku R1 is out. But no one is going to deprive me of the joy of working on “the” or “a” haiku distro because of FUD.
I am very happy that my decision not to include leaked source code (like the Bone network stack) proved correct.
Edited 2007-04-14 09:39
Vibe, until R1 I care zilch for Haiku. I love BeOS. I would far rathe user BeOS R5 than Haiku as it stands now. Zeta and Max are usable *now*. Somtimes you seem to forget that old timers, like me, used BeOS for our primary OS for years. You bad mouthing its legacy really, really makes you look like a sad individual. Good/bad, rough/smooth, Haiku is still an unfinished and unknown quantity. I’d rather use my fave OS, the OS I bought multiple copies of, now. I don’t appreciate you belittling it. AT the end of the day Haiku R1 will be on a par with R5, as it is now. Why wait, when I HAVE BeOS R5 already? Zeta, for allits bloat, adds a lot of hardware support. I own it legally. I’ll use it if I see fit. When I’m done,
you can pry the CD from my cold dead hands if you like.
Thanks for modding me down people. That’s really mature.
I’m probably wasting my time, but this is just on the off chance that you’re not intentionally trolling.
Other than having used BeOS back in the day, I have absolutly no involvement with that community. For that matter, I only actually know two handles on this site. Eugenia and you. The first is obvious, and yourself because of the exact reason people are modding you down. Before I even loaded this up, I knew you’d be posting, and I knew what you’d say. I’m about as far off the radar of Haiku as it’s possible to be while still knowing what it is, and I still know that any time the subject of beosmax comes up you’ll be yelling louder and louder, doing the whole “I’m not touching you! My fingers a mm away from your face, and that means I’m not touching you!” backseat game.
And the sad thing is, threads like these actually drive people away from even using Haiku. I see these, and the ten people or so who actually care about beos anymore, and find that the remenents of the old community consist of some haiku developers, a scattering of people who don’t take these things too seriously, but a very vocal crowd who I’m supposed to imagine will actually put in any work in making haiku viable when they can’t even toss down a couple words in a message board without yelling at each other.
You know why ubuntu caught on with the average user when debian never did? Debian’s community was filled with exactly this kind of thing. Any newsgroup search with debian turned up soap opera drama and teenage angst alongside every bit of actual technical information.
And, yes, I’m probably out of line posting this. But you do seem sincere in liking haiku, and I don’t get the impression that you really notice just how many people you’re turning away from it. You’ve made a point, if nobody but you cares, than nobody but you cares. Repeating it over, and over, and over again isn’t going to change any minds.
You know why ubuntu caught on with the average user when debian never did?
Because Ubuntu is targeted to “average” (newer) Linux users who don’t care to manually configure their devices and because Ubuntu doesn’t stick to the Debian Social Contract with respect to proprietary code (particularly firmware, proprietary drivers, closed code like Flash, etc.).
http://www.us.debian.org/social_contract
Ubuntu’s adoption by “average users” has nothing to do with newsgroups — less than 2% of “average users” even know what USENET is, much less know the difference between Debian and Ubuntu.
And, yes, I’m probably out of line posting this.
Yes, you are. Calling “no reason to go after you” “unofficial support” isn’t the same as legal, and playing the fame game on the back of an illegal derivative of BeOS isn’t customer smart. It would be smart to let this fade as neither are helpful. That’s how it is.
On the issue of Max OS getting a call from Apple’s legal department, that’s also possible. The Windows trademark is one example, there are others. Simply, is a name likely to cause confusion? Mac OS and Max OS does. Again, that’s how it is.
I have no comment to make beyond that, and anything said about “turning people away from Haiku”, or “making personal attacks”, or “being unprofessional” is the product of peoples imagination, mere opinion based on fantasy. Getting 5 mod points doesn’t change that.
Great.. I am famous. Now all I need is to collect dollars for fame… 🙂 vibe, do you doubt I have the unofficial ok from Access or do you just think it is not enough? If it is the first, you are dead wrong, if it is the second, I am sorry you feel that way… but please move on. There must be other forums out there that need trolling…
Edited 2007-04-13 22:16
If they could mod up to 10 or even 15, I’m sure he’d get as many as they could give.
Thanks for modding me down people. That’s really mature.
I just went through the whole thread and modded your posts up because you’re about the only one making sense. Now I’m here so they can mod me down. 🙂
I don’t believe Access gave Vasper a green light…
That’s my reading of it, too. They didn’t give any official support and they certainly didn’t offer a licensing agreement — too much work for absolutely no benefit to them. Lefty only said he “sees no reason to interfere with the [BeOS Max] project” and vasper wrote that was “not official support”:
http://vbeosa.blogspot.com/2007/04/going-on.html
Where Access DO have an issue is with someone making a derivative work based on their IP and then threatening to release source code of the derivative work. The IP is theirs, the derivative work is theirs, and the code from the derivative work is theirs.
http://new.beosnews.com/index.php/2007/04/11/jlg-respondes-to-zetas…
Personally, I think “Lefty’s” excuse for not going after Zeta (yT..or whomever) is a bit strange. And it sounds like they were trying very hard to not bring attention to themselves, for whatever the reason. I don’t buy the “was more than it was worth” excuse at all. The bottom line was someone was allegedly modifying BeOS and calling it Zeta, and someone was allegedly profiting from Zeta. That, in and of itself, is reason enough to sic the legal hounds to flush out the truth. Maybe Access would have felt differently had they not inherited the code, but actually did some work on it. If what that Lefty guy said is the whole truth, that’s not a very smart way to run a company. At least not one that you believe will prosper.
Before the whole “Zeta is illegal” thing, of the past few weeks, I never even heard of Access and figured Palm was using some bastardized version of BeOS as their mobile phone OS.
I mean, vibe trashing the “shills” aside, this whole argument is bunk at this point anyway. I’ll admit, the drama is fun, but Vasper is switching to a Haiku base and going on from there.
I enjoyed MAX at one time, and am looking forward to HaikuR1.
“Especially since Access, the rightful owner of the BeOS IP, gave Vasper the green light for BeOSMax. ”
Because there wasn’t a green light until very recently. Before that it WAS illegal. What we have no is a verbal agreement that it is legal but while a verbal agreement is just as legally binding as a written one it’s a bit harder to actually prove it.
Edited 2007-04-13 02:07
Ok, enlighten me….how, exactly, was/is BeOSMax illegal? Especially since Access, the rightful owner of the BeOS IP, gave Vasper the green light for BeOSMax.
Link to this please, because I missed that one! IIRC they said they hadn’t been contacted by Vasper yet, and they did not tend to look favorably upon people who used their property and distributed it without permission. Are you saying this situation has changed and Vasper was given permission to continue his distribution?
If so this is great news, but if you look at the wiki Vasper was already making plans to incorporate as much of Haiku that would be drop in replaceable in BeOS Max R4. The idea of BeOS Max was to allow you to run your BeOS on newer hardware than is supported under R5.03 without having to scramble and try patching everything yourself to hold you over until Haiku is released. As far as I knew that had always been the goal of BeOS Max–hence his decision to stop development when Zeta was released.
So if you have new information on this, where ACCESS said he could go ahead, I’d love to hear it!
Link please!!
–bornagainpenguin
EDIT Never mind I see the link now. Shows me up for not reading the whole thread before posting…. [sigh]
EDIT^2 Wait… how is this better than what Bernd was giving us??? So Vasper doesn’t charge money for it–he still doesn’t have any indemnification to offer if ACCESS decide to go to town! (Nothing against Vasper, just don’t be claiming anything with the BeOS that you can’t back up, especially given all the recent controversy!
Edited 2007-04-15 06:52
This is, quite obviously, true.
Not based on Zeta/BeOS he shouldn’t, as that is totally illegal in many countries. This is probably why he is making the Haiku switch in the first place.
Hopefully Vasper will join the Haiku team, as it seems he has talent to contribute. I don’t want Haiku becoming another fragmented distro-fest like Linux has become.
I think this might give people an “easier” way to get going with Haiku, which can only mean more testing/etc. I also realize the Haiku team probably doesn’t want this at this point in time, because they are already aware of many of the (huge) outstanding issues. This is where the conflict arises. That said, I think the Haiku team should just setup a nice bug tracking interface, and ignore any bugs coming in that aren’t put in through the interface.
Then have a couple people dedicated to weeding through bugs, sorting out duplicates, etc. This would keep the devs from being hit by a thousand bug reports about file copy operations failing on large files due to VM issues (inside joke…)
I think Haiku needs to go ahead and put together the infrastructure to handle public usage of their OS sooner rather than later. Hiding behind the “alpha” tag and making people go out of their way to use the OS so as to avoid widespread testing is a bit silly, imo. I know it’s not wise to release products that are buggy as hell – but providing alpha builds in installable formats doesn’t equate to a buggy release. Now, if they toss R1 out the door plagued with bugs/issues, that’s a different story.
Really, how many people even know about Haiku? Mostly OS geeks, who know better than to expect a 100% bug free OS at this point.
Anyways, keep up the good work Vasper, and I hope you and the team can eventually work together instead of parallel to each other.
Not based on Zeta/BeOS he shouldn’t, as that is totally illegal in many countries.
Vasper was given unofficial ok from David S, from Access, for BeOS MAX.
http://www.beosmax.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=614#614
Access is mainly concerned with those:
#1 Profiting off BeOS derivative
#2 Anything relating to BeOS source code ( using, modifying, access to and open sourcing ).
Since BeOS MAX is free, & uses BeOS binaries instead of BeOS source code, Access ( or at least David S, from Access ) are ok with BeOS MAX being distributed. So, unlikely they would accuse it of being illegal ( even with no official agreement in place ) or even go after Vasper ( ie: Access has nothing to lose anyways because BeOS isn’t being developed by them ( Vasper isn’t stealing business from them ) and BeOS is just stored away somewhere at Access, not even being used ).
Zeta on the other hand is commercial and utilizes BeOS source code too. ( profits off and uses / changes Access’ IP )
This would keep the devs from being hit by a thousand bug reports about file copy operations failing on large files due to VM issues
Come on, Luposian has only filed about 200 bug reports so far on this issue 🙂
He still has another 800 to go to reach 1,000.
Edited 2007-04-13 00:20
I did see that, but it’s still questionable. Unless Vasper got a signed legal document saying “it’s ok”, it’s risky business. Not to mention, I don’t think he wants the association with Zeta anymore, and I cannot blame him for that. Of course, I do not speak for him, his logic may be entirely different. 🙂
Haha. The other day, somebody of “importance” (I won’t name drop) gave good ole’ Lupo a really detailed and clear explanation of what was going on, in hopes that he would stop submitting it as a bug/posting on OSNews about it being a bug. I wonder how well that has worked. :p The guy seemed like a little kid (Lupo) but from what I understand, he’s in his 30s and just very excited about the possibility of having a running Haiku. Too excited!
Hang on, I heard that there was a license agreement with either BE or Palm and the NDA did not allow discussing it, so,… oh wait, that was another story on here. I was just confused. 🙂
You’re right. Without signed legal document from Access, then BeOS is “officially” considered illegal. Now, David S gave the green light, so “unofficially” is saying it is ok to proceed, though this in no way means MAX is legal. ( though it may mean BeOS MAX is “unoffically” legal, but not very sure on that ).
But, it is very doubtful Access cares about MAX and would not a) publicly accuse BeOS MAX of being illegal or b) go after Vasper ( take legal action ), because Access will not gain anything, even if MAX is of illegal status. ( and MAX is not using Access IP to gain financially, like some other OS I know of ).
Since David S gave the go ahead, I would have no problem using or recommending MAX. Those that purchased Zeta can use that. The rest of us either have to use Haiku, which isn’t ready, BeOS MAX, which should work for most or not use BeOS at all ( sit & wait ).
Luposian is SUPER exited. I’m glad to see he loves Haiku & BeOS so much. And if he hasn’t already, should report his issue to http://www.haiku-os.org instead of on OSNEWS and eventually it’ll get fixed, by R1 or maybe sooner.
Edited 2007-04-13 02:15
“Luposian is SUPER exited. I’m glad to see he loves Haiku & BeOS so much. And if he hasn’t already, should report his issue to http://www.haiku-os.org instead of on OSNEWS and eventually it’ll get fixed, by R1 or maybe sooner.”
Thanks for the appreciation. It’s nice to see someone can see the value of my “persistent enthusiasm”. But, since it (“the unmentionable”) is already known about and I have brought it to an even greater attention (which was my purpose all along; it wasn’t my intention to be an annoying PITA, but I am willing to BE one, if it means something I believe needs heavier attention, finally gets it.), I think the echo created from my ranting shall insure NO ONE forgets this matter anytime soon…
Even if it’s only brought up as “an inside joke” every now and again.
“Haha. The other day, somebody of “importance” (I won’t name drop) gave good ole’ Lupo a really detailed and clear explanation of what was going on, in hopes that he would stop submitting it as a bug/posting on OSNews about it being a bug. I wonder how well that has worked. :p The guy seemed like a little kid (Lupo) but from what I understand, he’s in his 30s and just very excited about the possibility of having a running Haiku. Too excited!”
Wasn’t THAT an evening to remember. I really enjoyed it. Quite a lesson in details. I may return to the newsgroup again sometime. I think my “exhuberant enthusiasm” is something we “Haiku’ers” could all use a bit more of.
But I’ll say this… Hugo Santos is REALLY coming out of the gate with a roar. That guy codes like… well, like Axel Dorfler… on SPEED! I don’t even think Axel has made as many day-in/day-out commits as Hugo’s been making. I think there are at least 3-5 commits EVERY SINGLE DAY! Either Hugo’s got the same level of passion about Haiku as I have and has the coding skills to BACK it, or Axel is an excellent Mentor and really driving him with vigor.
Either way… we all win.
“Come on, Luposian has only filed about 200 bug reports so far on this issue 🙂
He still has another 800 to go to reach 1,000.”
I got quite a laugh out of this… thanks for the funny!
“Then have a couple people dedicated to weeding through bugs, sorting out duplicates, etc. This would keep the devs from being hit by a thousand bug reports about file copy operations failing on large files due to VM issues (inside joke…)”
I sense I’ve become somewhat of a OSNews/Haiku newsgroup celebrity for my persistant insistance on this particular topic.
As I’ve told a friend of mine (yes, I actually DO have them… I haven’t driven EVERYONE away, with my “unique personality”), I don’t come here to be liked. I come here to bring awareness and a realization of an issue.
However, it’s really no different that someone coming here saying “Zeta’s illegal… blah, blah, blah.” (hmmm…. now where have I been hearing THAT a lot lately?). The “Paul Revere” among us is trying to bring awareness and a realization of trouble to the masses who either may not realize the severity of the problem or even seemingly CARE that there IS a problem.
But thanks for considering my past comments here “an inside joke”. I think that’s cool…
Replace “celebrity” with “annoyance”.
Why are you bringing “awareness” to an issue everybody is already “aware” of, many thousands of times over.
“Awareness” is already there, “realization” is already there, and yes, we do care, but there are much more important issues to work on first.
In summary, you’re wasting your time/efforts (and our time dealing with you constantly trumpeting an issue everybody already knows about.) I thought when you got the explanation the other night you’d finally quit, but obviously not. We all already know about the bug, it is planned to be resolved, but all the more pressing issues are going to be sorted out first.
“Your” little bug will be fixed by R1, so I suggest you wait until then to use Haiku. You’re obviously not capable of understanding what an in development OS goes through as a process to ready it for release.
Well, there’s no mistaking it… you hate me. I can tell by your wording. But you know what? That’s ok. I didn’t come here to chum around. I came here to bring up an issue to, what I perceived to be, a far greater public audience than just over at Haiku’s website.
I think my business is done here. And, with as much work as I see on a daily basis (especially by the likes of one Hugo Santos… GO, HUGO!!!) over at CIA, I have reason to believe that this matter will be resolved a little sooner rather than a lot later.
I did what I did, for Haiku. Not to be liked. Not to be disliked. BeOS and it’s LEGITIMATE progeny (kinda rules out Zeta, huh? Yea!) are not JUST OS’s to me. They are a way of ENJOYING the computers we use. MacOS X makes using a Mac enjoyable. BeOS/Haiku makes using a PC enjoyable.
Well, there’s no mistaking it… you hate me. I can tell by your wording. But you know what? That’s ok. I didn’t come here to chum around. I came here to bring up an issue to, what I perceived to be, a far greater public audience than just over at Haiku’s website.
People don’t listen when things become an ego issue. Doesn’t matter if it’s a technical, legal, or customer experience thing. They might even know you’re right but they’ll never admit it. I wouldn’t pay much attention to it or stroke your own self-importance. That just makes things sink futher. It’s better to let things roll by, shrug, and let things work out on their own.
For all the froth, Zeta and BeOS MAX are, effectively, dead in the water. They had their moment in the sun but are fortuitously coming to a natural end as Haiku is begging to crystallise around R1. In spite of the difficulties you couldn’t buy a better outcome than that if you’d planned it. The discussion is a sideshow and has no real significance. R1 is the only thing that really counts.
I note my mod points are split 2/3+ and 1/3-. That looks pretty bad but from a stats point of view it maps to the power distribution pretty well. And that’s what this bruhaha is all about under the surface. Zeta and BeOS MAX are going through a death struggle and a successor is rising to the top. That’s where that 1/3 of negative mod points are coming from. People hate change but they’ll come around.
Edited 2007-04-14 20:52
I saw this coming. All the shit surrounding Zeta prolly scared Vasper.
Vasper must have saw that Zeta is done ( with the big legal dispute ) and realizes that Haiku is it for the future.
Haiku is crawling along and needs funds to help give it a push so hopefully it’ll get done sooner.
An R1 release will attract more users and developers getting things going faster.
We need to get to Haiku R1 sooner than later, and Vasper knows this. Once R1 is out, then people will start taking notice of Haiku and hopefully speed things up.
We need to get to Haiku R1 sooner than later
Yes, but R1 also needs to be a solid release, especially with the release philosophy the team has chosen. It will no doubt get lots of attention, and if it’s perceived as buggy people will lose interest in Haiku.
I think Vasper would contribute more to Haiku’s success by joining the team rather than pushing the OS out to people before it’s ready. However, there’s only one person to decide on this matter, and that’s Vasper himself.
Yes, but R1 also needs to be a solid release, especially with the release philosophy the team has chosen. It will no doubt get lots of attention, and if it’s perceived as buggy people will lose interest in Haiku.
It’s too easy to hit feature tick boxes and force buggy code out the door but it’s a fools game. Taking that extra time to iron out design glitches or poor code is worth the effort. Dashing for the finishing line too early is just greedy and insecure, and not the stuff market leaders are made of.
Why do people alway assume something before asking and then they don’t ask? No, I will not release before Haiku R1. Only a stable system makes sense. But preparing something good takes time and I want to be ready. Any code or help I can give to Haiku before that I will of course give.
ps. I am thinking vibe is a good name for a haiku distro. It has rhythm… 😉
Why do people alway assume something before asking and then they don’t ask? No, I will not release before Haiku R1. Only a stable system makes sense. But preparing something good takes time and I want to be ready. Any code or help I can give to Haiku before that I will of course give.
Being vague about what “unofficial support” actually means, and rushing in before Bernd Korz hasn’t roasted in the oven for more than a week creates an impression. You need to be more clear.
ps. I am thinking vibe is a good name for a haiku distro. It has rhythm… 😉
That’s exactly what I was thinking. You can use it for free but the brain behind it costs money, but what do I know? Thom called me a no-name so it must be true.
Edited 2007-04-13 08:44
I am not being vague. I am being exact: http://vbeosa.blogspot.com/2007/04/going-on.html
So I should think of a new word that nobody has thought of before? Come on… How about asdfhasfasfhsfafweeffjafOS?
if openbeos is going to be called walter … ill bailing.
it’s such a lame name.
hell, it’s not as though im even listed on your site as contributing anyway
… (i got sick of asking ppl to add my name. i can find better places to
spend my time and resources.)
also, the lack of updating the web site … its still the plain old (dare i
say ugly) look that was suppose to be changed.
This is gonna come round and round again for YEARS isn’t it
Vasper I want to say thanks for all your work so far I will definately be trying any Haiku based system you put together.
Not too sure about the name. What about MaxOS? Relevant, and to my anglophone ear sounds vaguely Greek. [knowing my luck this is actually very rude in Greek]
How about Amiga0S 5? 😉
I say keeping with the Greek theme “Sparta OS”
I think the two names that stick out are:
MAX
VASPER
I don’t believe using OS after the name is right, because that is normally done on new / different OSes.
For instance, most Linux distros are not <distro name> OS. I’ve never heard RedHat OS, Mandrake OS, Fedora OS, Ubuntu OS, Debian OS ( well, not entirely true, there are actually a few distros that break the rule; PCLinuxOS, CentOS, KateOS, Myah OS ).
So maybe instead???,
MAX OS
VASPER OS
Or, just go crazy and call it, SPARTA 300 🙂
Walter? Who is that again? 🙂
MAX OS
Hello Apple legal department.
VASPER OS
What’s it mean? Oh, that criminal operating system.
Walter? Who is that again? 🙂
Safest bet so far…
What is wrong with MAX_VASPER OS? That has the sound of power behind it.
“What is wrong with MAX_VASPER OS? That has the sound of power behind it.”
Or, how about: –> VeOS <–
Edited 2007-04-13 05:15
Wouldn’t that be pronounced BeOS in Spanish speaking countries? 😉
So if it was released as a Spanish distro it would be the return of BeOS! 🙂 yayyy! Probably not legal is it?
No, I’m pretty confident I’d have to object to “VeOS”.
We are obliged to defend trademarks, and I’m afraid “BeOS” is currently one of ’em.
I like the name VeOS, but you are right. It is also why I rejected MaxOS (MacOS…)
What about Max anyway? My name es Max (Maximino, a very greek-base name) and people call me from Maximo at Maximilliam, even Maximus (GladiatOrS). Then, way not MaximOS? xD.
Not, even better. What like about “BetaMax”? There is not more IP/TradeMark legal issue from Sony to take these name, because the concession had expired yet. In other way there are a “Be- suffix very common in BeOS apps and stuff. And last but not less the “Beta- part for allways a beta-testing OS, the never-release OS. Jokes apart there is a reason I would like to refer, the Betamax (*BeOS/Zeta/Haiku) format allways was better format than VHS (Winblows/Linuxes), small, compact, better video quality, at certain point elitisc only for people with good taste and not mainstream-trendy-fan But the History and monopolistic/marketing/economical reasons was the end of that marble and great format. just a coincidence? (take a look at http://www.savebetamax.org/)
Another option is kept the Haiku concept from the type of japanese poem: kigo, hokku, Senryu, Haikai, Moku, Renga, Waka, Haibun, etc. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haiku)
my two cents for BetaMax name xD
PD: Sorry for my twisted english.
A hint for Haibun: haiku plus prose passages (HaikuOS plus Vasper work) and Renga: collaborative linked verse (if there will be a Haiku Comunity Collaboritive Distro)
I personally would like to see anything Vasper does with Haiku remain part of Haiku and co-ordinated with the Haiku team. Fragmenting the OS and using differing names only will serve to confuse the public as to what’s going on in the Haiku world.
Haiku OS needs to be united to get any notice.
On the subject of BeOS, does anyone think that OpenTracker is simply an abomination to the name?
It crashes, it’s slow(er), and just plain doesn’t work nearly as well.
Why again has it replaced the default tracker?
Because it adds a large number of new features, and on both of my machines (a desktop and a laptop) it is neither slower or crashes more often than the original Tracker.
> On the subject of BeOS, does anyone think that
> OpenTracker is simply an abomination to the name?
No, because the origincal stock Tracker than came with R5 is horrible to use. I’ll admit that some of the new “fluff2 that they’ve added recently is not necessary, but if you just use the basic features that Dano introduced, life is a lot simpler. The navigation is an absolute god send.
BeOS Max V4 will come out as promised. I have unofficial support from Access.
WalterOS is in the planning stage. There is a lot of work to be done so when Haiku R1 is ready it can be finished as quickly as possible.
that name was found by BGA, you’ll ask him for permission unless you want to get a free trip to his basement (private joke)
Yeah, Walter was a code name for Haiku (or something along those lines) when the new name (as opposed to “OpenBeOS”) was being decided. Hence WalterCon. Walter is akin to “Genki”, “Maui” and “Dano” (the code names for R4.5, R5.0 and R5.1.)
IMO, I think “Walter” should be the official Haiku distro, not a third party one.
IMO, I think “Walter” should be the official Haiku distro, not a third party one.
The official product is going to be Haiku itself, which is not a “distro”. Don’t think of Haiku in Linux terms. It’s more like FreeBSD or OpenBSD – one complete system. Third party distros are possible, but Haiku is not distro based like Linux.
I agree, though, that the name “Walter” is strongly tied to the official Haiku project. If there were distros of MS Windows, it would be a bit like naming one of them “Longhorn”.
pwnedos : meaning a form of superiority through the downfall of another legacy os (BeOS, Zeta, …)
pwnedos, as in “pwn3d OS”? That would somehow imply an OS that just got pwn3d…
What exactly was wrong with “Haiku Max” anyway?
Yup, “pwn3d OS” that means it is superior to all of its legacy incarnation, official or not…
You’re the first to speak about “Haiku Max”, in the headline, Thom talk about WalterOS, and also adds that “The name is not final yet, so feel free to add your own proposals.” I made such proposal…
Thus, “What exactly was wrong with “pwn3d OS” anyway?”
Kochise
SpeedOS is the obvious choice.
It’s a wet dream. ;P
http://www.speedo.com/
A good product turns into a brand name. Not the other way around. As long as the name is sensible, if it is a good product then it will gain recognition.
WalterOS, VibeOS, MaxOS, all are fine.
(And to the person who said MaxOS would have the Apple legal dept coming calling… you can not claim trademark on vaguely similar names.)
Not too sure about that – don’t forget what happened to Lindows v. MS. And the Apple legal folks don’t exactly play golf all day.
A name is a good start. A name draws attention. However I think MaxOS is a bad name and sounds too close to MacOS so there is no reason to use it and cause confusion.
Max plain is better. the only problem with that is that I won’t be able to get a site that is called max.org I will have to use Max-OS.org just for the site if that name is decided.
Now, on the matter of Access support, the man responsible for their IP told me he sees no problem. He represents Access. It is not an official contract but every person with a little reason knows that there are verbal contracts too. And this one is even better… it is emailed!!! It is not official support again because that would cost time and money they see no reason to spent. They just say, ok go on. Just not in a written sealed and signed by 3 costly law department reps.
I am sorry this is not enough for vibe, but FUD is his problem. Not mine.
Edited 2007-04-13 16:33
I hope this clears everything:
http://vbeosa.blogspot.com/2007/04/haiku-distroes.html
David, You’ve been very direct, and (surprisingly) public in your recent comments concerning the status of Zeta.
Any chance you could be equally candid about your employers plans for all that 7 year-old code?. $11 million (?) may not be much, but it’s still a very expensive purchase to leave mouldering on top of the wardrobe.
Vasper,
I think it is great what you are doing … some people are less lucky keeping the BeOS dream alive .. but even their efforts .. have a goal which is to keep BeOS alive .. and what a great OS it still is … what was Jobs thinking .. that he let his baby go ..
.. another thought … there is a lot of talk about BeOS IP lately .. Access being the owner of it at this moment .. what if there was a BeOS foundation .. which had enough funds to buy the BeOS IP .. after doing that it could opensource BeOS IP .. i know it has been done with some software which is opensource now .. was closed source before .. off cource BeOS IP probably carries a bigger price tag .. but still .. with a little good will from Access and lots of funds from benevolent BeOS supporters .. look at how much people bought Zeta for example … calculate how much that amounts up to . and what you can do with it .. it might seem a little silly .. maybe it is .. stranger things have happened though .. look at linux where it was in 1991 and where it is now .. just a thought mind you .. Vasper looking forward to a great new Haiku distro from your hand .. well not just your hand .. lets not forget all the developers who worked hard on Haiku .. on the topic of a new name … what about
Haiku Atlantis … i watch Stargate Atlantis a lot .. Atlantis is a place where lots of cool technology lives .. Haiku is also about that imho .. or will be ..
Ok enough for now ..
Cheers,
Johnbon
I don’t get it – a MAX distribution based on HaikuOS, why ??
Wouldn’t it be better to unite forces with the HaikuOS team, making HaikuOS itself more accessable to the more technically-challenged ?
Haiku is the base OS. Have you ever tried e.g. Linux? Ubuntu for example is a Distro of Linux.
Haiku however should have less distroes. But the MIT license doesn’t prevent hundreds of distroes coming out. Would you prefer a planned one that respects Haiku’s rules or wait for the mess to happen? Because that is what I predict will happen.
I believe I have the experience to create this distro and take the burden out of the Haiku team to continue with the core OS. So actually I am helping. At least will try to and if I fail, I won’t release a failure.
Hey vasper,
Developers are often happy just to have their hard work running on their computers. But shipping “a product” and taking care of the last details is another thing and a crucial one. I think that as long as you keep communication with the Haiku team, your effort will benefit everyone involved or interested in this OS.
As soon as version 1.1 is out (read: “fryed hard disks” bug corrected) I’ll give it a try myself 🙂
Dimos D.
Haiku is the base OS. Have you ever tried e.g. Linux? Ubuntu for example is a Distro of Linux.
I don’t think you can compare directly here. Linux is a kernel, and distros are needed for it to function for the end user. Thats not the case with Haiku. You repeat that Haiku is the base OS. Thats probably right in the sense that it is an OS with basic applications included. But this argument will also make Windows and OS X “base operating systems”. Are they?
Haiku will probably be more basic that Windows and OS X, but a distro it’s not *needed* for a user to use Haiku.
BeOS Max is not derived work because no code is used from the original BeOS. Binaries are NOT considered derived work.
Is this your provincial lawyer talking again? BeOS binaries are a copyright work. Somebody owns them and BeOS MAX is a derived and illegal distribution. Saying different doesn’t change that.
Haiku will probably be more basic that Windows and OS X, but a distro it’s not *needed* for a user to use Haiku.
The issues of user experience and consistency are a core issue. Fragmentation and poor quality distributions create a bad and confusing impression.
I wonder what Vasper’s reponse would be if I took his paid for “Haiku MAX” and released a cleaned up version and made more money off it? Go on, surprise me…
Vibe, please. I am talking about DERIVED WORK. That can ONLY come from SOURCE CODE. Please don’t play the smart one on things you don’t know. OK?
Also stop FUD…
bornagainenguin, I have been in contact with the Director of Open Source at Access and gave him all the info, showed him to the site and he gave me the unofficial OK. That is all.
Edited 2007-04-15 08:57
Hi Vasper
Yes I know about Linux – a GNU/Linux system is the Linux kernel + an GNU userland + an X-server (XOrg for the most) + a WM/Desktop framework (Normally Gnome or KDE).
On top of these three independant products the distribution developers base their product. In short, there are no real base distribution in the Linux world (United Linux has been the only attempt, but that was ruined by the MS lapdog SCO).
On the other hand HaikuOS actually is a more or less finished OS, that AFAIK lacks a decent installer and other tools, not what I just would consider a baseOS.
That was the motivation behind my huh ????
That you intend to produce these missing tools and create a nice package is admirable and the donations.
I just say that personally I would prefer for it to be added directly to the HaikuOS package – thus you also would prevent people from making hundreds of distributions.
I’m looking forward to se what will happen in the near future – have a nice sunday everyone.
I see. Well in that case, don’t worry. I have no intention of releasing a distro that doesn’t have a finished base OS. It will only come after Haiku R1. But we need to plan ahead.
Edited 2007-04-16 10:20
My opinion.
If any code from Be Inc is owned by anyone that cared, they would have sued LONG ago.
This one’s from a haiku team leader. http://ozhug.blogspot.com/
That makes 4 that I know of, counting the original of course.