OSNews: http://www.osnews.com/story/17995/Microsoft_Unveils_Multi-Touch_Interface_Computer Exploring the Future of Computing en-us Copyright 2001-2009, David Adams adam+nospam@osnews.com Tue, 10 Nov 2009 06:39:52 GMT http://www.osnews.com/images/osnews.gif OSNews.com http://www.osnews.com RE http://osnews.com/thread?244000 http://osnews.com/thread?244000 Can't wait for the first Flickr photo of a coffee table BSOD ;)

I kid, I like that this technology is now moving forward and is clearly the future as I speculated in the Augmented Reality article. Wed, 30 May 2007 10:06:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Kroc) Comments Wait, no keyboard? http://osnews.com/thread?244001 http://osnews.com/thread?244001 So, when greeted by a BSOD we are to place two palms on the table (CTRL + ALT) and proceed to hit it with our foreheads (DEL). Wed, 30 May 2007 10:11:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (hhcv) Comments Kidney http://osnews.com/thread?244003 http://osnews.com/thread?244003 God, have you guys seen the videos of it in action? This is one of the coolest things I have *ever* seen.

Where can I order? Someone need a kidney? Wed, 30 May 2007 10:12:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Thom_Holwerda) Comments RE: Kidney http://osnews.com/thread?244004 http://osnews.com/thread?244004 Yeah, it looks bloody awesome.. I can't say I have not seen this all before though - there was a similar University research protect that looks very, very similar.

A Kidney you say, do I know the game show for you! Wed, 30 May 2007 10:18:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (hhcv) Comments RE http://osnews.com/thread?244006 http://osnews.com/thread?244006 Wake up, there hasn't been a blue screen of death for ages now. I think this new technology is great, and more and more people will have access to it, and it's going to be everywhere. But I'm not sure I'll want to leave my current computer to use a table, eh eh...I don't know what version of Windows it's gonna run either (Vista or an embedded version). Wed, 30 May 2007 10:19:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Liquidator) Comments RE[2]: Kidney http://osnews.com/thread?244007 http://osnews.com/thread?244007 A Kidney you say, do I know the game show for you!

Hey I'm not responsible for what my fellow countrymen come up with ;) . Wed, 30 May 2007 10:28:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Thom_Holwerda) Comments RE http://osnews.com/thread?244009 http://osnews.com/thread?244009 I'd be interested to see a dedicated multi-touch OS rather than just an adapted version of Vista (et al). I know this is a long way yet, but I'd be very interested to see how such a system would be built. Maybe Gene Roddenberry got it right and we'd all be using LCARS like OSs ;-) Wed, 30 May 2007 10:32:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Laurence) Comments Who's gonna clean the screen? http://osnews.com/thread?244015 http://osnews.com/thread?244015 Touching screens with greasy fingers is not the ideal situation.

Subbuteo would be really cool though.

It can also be used for simulating turn tables! Wed, 30 May 2007 10:43:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (axilmar) Comments Yep http://osnews.com/thread?244017 http://osnews.com/thread?244017 You can draw Finder logo with your fingers on that. There are the eyes and then there's the mouth... Wed, 30 May 2007 10:51:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Buck) Comments RE http://osnews.com/thread?244020 http://osnews.com/thread?244020 It was a joke =P Maybe I should have used sarcasm marks. A decent XP system never BSODs, not unless your hardware go awry. However Windows has built up many myths over the years that are no longer true, yet people still repeat them - reminds me of the one button myths about Macs. Always eat your own dogfood. Wed, 30 May 2007 10:54:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Kroc) Comments RE: Who's gonna clean the screen? http://osnews.com/thread?244021 http://osnews.com/thread?244021 "
Touching screens with greasy fingers is not the ideal situation.
"

In reality it's actually 2 less devices to clean. VDUs need to be cleaned at the moment (not just from people with sticky fingers, but from dust) plus you have keyboards and mice that obviously have constant physical interaction.



"
It can also be used for simulating turn tables!
"

Simulating turntables is actually a thing of the past. These days most DJs who sell up their Technics 1210s and Pioneer CDJs (that have dominated the market over the years) have turned to software such as Ableton. The approach to DJing with Ableton is completely different (in that there's not 'simulation' of turntables involved in the slightest), however the results can arguably be more impressive as it allows the DJ to build and layer a track up with greater precision and flexibility than turntables ever could.
This is actually a topic quite close to my heart, but i've tried to keep it brief as it's a little off topic

[edit - messy quotes]Edited 2007-05-30 10:58 Wed, 30 May 2007 10:56:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Laurence) Comments and PS http://osnews.com/thread?244023 http://osnews.com/thread?244023 There's nothing anything *particularly* impressive about that demo. So, you can drag photos around... or you can drag movies around and rotate them... ugh. Or you can click on a restaurant menu. These things have been there for ages. It's a nice gimmick, but Microsoft has failed to actually provide the beef - that is, the notion or idea how it's going to change my everyday computing. Nothing new in the interface. Thom: go buy a Cintiq and be happy (granted, it won't scan your photos, but I doubt this is currently useful). Wed, 30 May 2007 10:59:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Buck) Comments RE: and PS http://osnews.com/thread?244026 http://osnews.com/thread?244026 I bet when we finally get our flying cars you're not going to be impressed with that either. Wed, 30 May 2007 11:03:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (jaylaa) Comments Mmmm okay http://osnews.com/thread?244027 http://osnews.com/thread?244027 In a way, yes, it is very interesting and cool. Even omg-i-want-one-now cool.

But in another way, the impression I get is that of an interesting technology which still does not have a clear usage. I mean, sure, I can see how this would work for the number of things shown in the video, but what about other uses of a computer? Writing, for example, is probably not very suited to this interface.

And also, this looks tiring. I don't know if I'd be able to stay at it for a couple of hours. Even just playing with photos and surfing the web. More than 10 minutes hunched on a table moving my hands around? Woa, too much effort.Edited 2007-05-30 11:11 Wed, 30 May 2007 11:04:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (gonzalo) Comments RE[2]: Who's gonna clean the screen? http://osnews.com/thread?244028 http://osnews.com/thread?244028 "In reality it's actually 2 less devices to clean."

People generally don't touch their display constantly or view things through their keyboard though.
Smudge is a real, practical problems for touch screens. Wed, 30 May 2007 11:05:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Soulbender) Comments RE: and PS http://osnews.com/thread?244029 http://osnews.com/thread?244029 I think you underestimate people's abilities to even view their photos on their existing computer.

Microsoft are taking a hard line business edge with this to begin with because they want everybody quickly using their touch-card payment system. Being the inventor of the next cedit card is a lucrative business. Wed, 30 May 2007 11:05:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Kroc) Comments LCARS? http://osnews.com/thread?244030 http://osnews.com/thread?244030 Now we know who made the computers in Star Trek...

In all seriousness, this is a good thing. I've been working on a Tablet PC for about a month now, and I can safely say that their current tablet-based OSs are the best OSs that they've ever released. Wed, 30 May 2007 11:06:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Almafeta) Comments RE: and PS http://osnews.com/thread?244036 http://osnews.com/thread?244036 Give it time mate. Technology like this is still only in it's infancy. The concept behind this (such as communication with devices (eg phones) by simply resting the device on the surface) is more than just gimmicky in my opinion.

Computers as they currently are are far from ergonomic given the rate of advancement in the technology inside the box. Steps like this will make them more 'human like' to interact with. Almost as natural as climbing a tree. Rather than finding CAT5 cables or enabling wifi, you just rest your laptop on the surface.

Personally I can't wait to see how these concepts get developed. Wed, 30 May 2007 11:13:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Laurence) Comments Correct me if I'm wrong... http://osnews.com/thread?244040 http://osnews.com/thread?244040 ...but this isn't Microsoft Technology. I have seen a demo of technology ~1-2 years ago presented in some auditorium, and team of developers had nothing to do with Microsoft.

Anyway cools tech, just not new. Wed, 30 May 2007 11:19:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Yogurth) Comments Hmm ... another Microsoft Ripoff http://osnews.com/thread?244042 http://osnews.com/thread?244042 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QKh1Rv0PlOQ Wed, 30 May 2007 11:28:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (searly) Comments The café table is MS', but the "technology" is not http://osnews.com/thread?244043 http://osnews.com/thread?244043 Remember Jeff Han and his company Perceptive Pixel?

http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/view/id/65

But I must admit the Zune integration to the IKEA table might have been done by MS ;)

But seriously, this product looks fun, intuitive and somewhat innovative. Hey that sounds like Apple! Wed, 30 May 2007 11:29:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (audunn) Comments RE[2]: and PS http://osnews.com/thread?244045 http://osnews.com/thread?244045 Well, the question should be - "What problem does this solve?"
And you can interact with your phones even without taking it out of your pocket - we have Bluetooth for that.
There's nothing wrong with WiFi either, technically there's no reason why it shouldn't just work whenever you're in the range (and it does).
As for the flying cars... well... Before we get to that point people will realize they don't need cars at all to be happy. Wed, 30 May 2007 11:43:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Buck) Comments Sometimes MS does good http://osnews.com/thread?244046 http://osnews.com/thread?244046 To all the people saying this isn't new and OMG another MS ripoff of someone else: do the demonstrations and prototypes you cite actually have a real product out, or do they just exist in the form of youtube videos?

Even if this is "just" a putting together of existing tech, it's still pretty cool. And if MS is the first to have an actual product for us to use, and not just see in demos, then they deserve some cool points.

Having said that, I certainly hope MS isn't the only one to come out with something like this. Wouldn't want to, you know, actually have to buy something from them:)Edited 2007-05-30 11:56 Wed, 30 May 2007 11:52:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (jaylaa) Comments I need this yersterday ! http://osnews.com/thread?244049 http://osnews.com/thread?244049 a tablet pc with multitouch interface and speech recognition...that can be a thin client
(that way it connects wirelessly to my monstrous x.cores tower pc) or that is not underpowered.

AND

a wireless ear-headset with earphones (that can be removed) a good noise-cancelling mic (for command and speech recognition) and a sunglasses-like _holographic_screen_....

Now, that would be nice...

(well 3d screens...a&nd wii like control solutions would be nice too.....I want to use a computer without having to stay sitted at the same place for hours...it kills you !) Wed, 30 May 2007 11:58:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Lakedaemon) Comments RE: Kidney http://osnews.com/thread?244050 http://osnews.com/thread?244050 I wouldn't buy one. Did you see all those cuts in the video ? IMO they're just trying to sell an unfinished product to take the market. It's what they've always done in the past at least. Wed, 30 May 2007 12:01:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (zimbatm) Comments Microsoft's entry into the kiosk/touchscreen biz http://osnews.com/thread?244056 http://osnews.com/thread?244056 Unfortunately for Microsoft, at a price of 10k USD, those things aren't going to be in the living rooms of grannies sorting through photos while syncing their zunes any time soon. So their initial market are going to be places where Microsoft competes with other (likely to be a lot cheaper) touch screen based kiosk system manufacturers.

The 'killer feature' of the device is that you can put a 'thing' on it, and associate advertising with it. That's why Microsoft touts the 'fast food restaurant' scenario in the FAQ: kids put on toys from their 'happy meals' on it, and get to see the advertising for the movie. Wed, 30 May 2007 12:18:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (robilad) Comments fat fingers http://osnews.com/thread?244060 http://osnews.com/thread?244060 The thing I dislike about touch interfaces is lack of precision. Mouse cursors are pixel precise. It's very difficult to be totally precise with a tablet and pen. You have to rely on the cursor to see exactly which pixel is to be manipulated, and the cursor is often hard to see under the pen ;) I can only imagine it would be worse with a finger (much fatter than a pen).

Touch screens I have used all have quite large buttons for this reason. I guess I need to get used to the idea of interfaces without as many buttons. I'm just not sure how many buttons can be practically replaced with gestures, though Opera (and Firefox and Konqueror) show that quite a few can be.

In the end, barring excellent handwriting recognition (not likely with mine), typing will remain a large part of computing, and a keyboard without tactile feedback just isn't so fun.

I guess all this means is I wouldn't be among the early adopters of a touch interface. We'll see how it goes ;) Wed, 30 May 2007 12:45:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (MamiyaOtaru) Comments I think Apple announced that recently, http://osnews.com/thread?244061 http://osnews.com/thread?244061 I believe it was called the "iPhone." It will be available next month.

Microsoft can't do their own thing, they have to present Apple's idea as a "revolutionary" product from MS??!Edited 2007-05-30 12:46 Wed, 30 May 2007 12:45:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (yakirz) Comments RE: Who's gonna clean the screen? http://osnews.com/thread?244062 http://osnews.com/thread?244062 "Touching screens with greasy fingers is not the ideal situation."

this is true, as any old timer that played the tabletop packman etc down the local UK pub years ago.....knows.


ohh wait, didn't they say bill was working on this idea for 20 years?.....

wonder were his next big idea will come from, and what it will be.

perhaps a machine with the fancy Gui and librarys built in to the ROM, wack...,it can be good for Beginners,an All purpose thing,perhaps Symbolic in nature,with lots of simple Instruction, and small Code to start it....Edited 2007-05-30 13:08 Wed, 30 May 2007 12:54:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (popper) Comments The arcade tables of the 2020's http://osnews.com/thread?244063 http://osnews.com/thread?244063 Yeah, it looks cool. Yeah, it might make it easy and cool to order and pay for stuff at restaurants, allow advertising, etc.

But, let's face it. Most restaurants would not put these in because they would ruin the atmosphere. They will probably be cool for a while and then go the way of the 80's arcade game table, stuck in some local pizza joint for 5 minute of entertainment while you wait for a pick-up order.

Or, maybe they are everywhere, who knows....but the iphone / any other celphone has a better chance of performing ALL of these functions than a bulky table computer. Wed, 30 May 2007 13:04:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (gfacer) Comments RE: Kidney http://osnews.com/thread?244064 http://osnews.com/thread?244064 Jeff Han and http://www.perceptivepixel.com/ are there for a time now. And there are always some fast followers out there in the market. The good old video: http://www.fastcompany.com/video/player.html?bctid=769654555

// sorry for the big link Wed, 30 May 2007 13:07:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (l3v1) Comments RE: Kidney http://osnews.com/thread?244067 http://osnews.com/thread?244067 http://www.cnet.com.au/tvs/0,239035250,339271648,00.htm Wed, 30 May 2007 13:19:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (pzad) Comments RE[3]: and PS http://osnews.com/thread?244072 http://osnews.com/thread?244072 And how many people actually use Bluetooth to sync their different devices or even to exchange data with the devices of other people?

The surface will add an uniform interface that helps to make use of existing protocols like upnp or smb.

(PS: I've seen devices like the surface many years ago developed by the Apple ATG.) Wed, 30 May 2007 13:40:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (jtinz) Comments RE http://osnews.com/thread?244073 http://osnews.com/thread?244073 You're right, from XP on it's been red instead of blue, if I recall correctly. The reason you don't see them is that there is a key in the registry that reboots the system instead...

That said, I have to admit that this technology is rather cool. All I hope is that it won't be a proprietary, locked-down machine like the Xbox360, and that you'll be able to experiment with these and install other OSes. After all, they don't have the argument of locking out game cheaters here!

I'm not sure it'll catch on, either. I mean, I thought tablets would be all the rage, and they didn't really catch on. Customer inertia has served MS well in the past, but it's also an obstacle they need to overcome when they try to introduce new technologies such as these. Wed, 30 May 2007 13:40:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (archiesteel) Comments What it looks like in real life http://osnews.com/thread?244074 http://osnews.com/thread?244074 Picture of actual real-world use here:

http://users.on.net/~disko/touchbsod.jpg Wed, 30 May 2007 13:41:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Milo_Hoffman) Comments RE[2]: and PS http://osnews.com/thread?244077 http://osnews.com/thread?244077
Personally I can't wait to see how these concepts get developed.


Personally I can't wait to see if someone hasn't already patented this...this would be quite ironic. Wed, 30 May 2007 13:44:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (archiesteel) Comments RE: Correct me if I'm wrong... http://osnews.com/thread?244080 http://osnews.com/thread?244080 ...but this isn't Microsoft Technology.
I have seen Jeff Han in the MS video. I think they licensed the technology as well as Apple. Wed, 30 May 2007 14:01:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (viton) Comments RE http://osnews.com/thread?244084 http://osnews.com/thread?244084 coffee table BSOD
Heh.
Just download an update for your coffee table =) Wed, 30 May 2007 14:04:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (viton) Comments RE: What it looks like in real life http://osnews.com/thread?244085 http://osnews.com/thread?244085 She looks rather pleased by the BSoD--"Wow, maybe this new computer table isn't so different after all!" Wed, 30 May 2007 14:07:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (shykid) Comments RE: fat fingers http://osnews.com/thread?244087 http://osnews.com/thread?244087 Very good point. Being a graphic designer, I need the precision of a cursor. That didn't even cross my mind when I was reading the article; I guess that's how much I take it for granted.

While we're at it, I don't think I would enjoy "typing" on one of those--no tactile feedback whatsoever. Unless there's some major advances in OCR technology, I'd probably have to type, since my handwriting makes present-state OCR weep. Hell, I'd probably prefer typing anyway since it's a lot faster than writing.

I wonder, if computers like this become the norm, then will mice and keyboards become expensive "speciality" devices like Wacom tablets?Edited 2007-05-30 14:21 Wed, 30 May 2007 14:16:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (shykid) Comments RE: Mmmm okay http://osnews.com/thread?244092 http://osnews.com/thread?244092 Are people really that lazy? As someone who used to spend hours hunched over a lighttable moving slides and negatives around with my hands (and hunched over trays of chemicals and and elargers etc.) I can assure you it isn't a problem at all unless you happen to be the worlds most lazy and unfit person. Wed, 30 May 2007 14:22:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (dagw) Comments How long http://osnews.com/thread?244093 http://osnews.com/thread?244093 How long will it take when Microsoft starts creating computers of any kind to compete with their partners? Wed, 30 May 2007 14:23:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (kozo) Comments RE: Sometimes MS does good http://osnews.com/thread?244096 http://osnews.com/thread?244096 Well you are right, sometimes MS does do something innovative or at least tries to. Nobody is denying them the right to do that. The point being made here is that, it is an existing technology they are making use of. Just see the You Tube video to see how innovative MS really is. And the despite the fact that they are the first one to make a unique product out of it (you know putting all that in a coffee table while Apple put it into a phone) they shouldn't really claim to have invented it and try to get a patent on it. Just in case they try to do that, you all know that they don't deserve that.

But then it is after all MS, isn't it.

And by the way they are aiming it at kiosks, restaurant s and other organizations. I wonder why everybody is talking about it like it is going to be available for their homes and offices or something. Wed, 30 May 2007 14:28:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Silent_Seer) Comments RE[2]: fat fingers http://osnews.com/thread?244097 http://osnews.com/thread?244097 This isn't going to replace the computer and no one is suggesting anyone should either run photoshop or write their thesis on this thing.

Why to people keep thinking in terms of either or? You use your computer to do your photoshop work and this device when for when you, your art director and you three clients gather around to look at what you've done and brainstorm ideas. I bit of trivial network magic and you can edit photos on your laptop and have chanes show up on the image on the table in real time. Wed, 30 May 2007 14:29:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (dagw) Comments ...and this interface???? http://osnews.com/thread?244099 http://osnews.com/thread?244099 ..look here guys..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=89sz8ExZndc Wed, 30 May 2007 14:31:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (skler0) Comments Two words http://osnews.com/thread?244108 http://osnews.com/thread?244108 Jeff Han Wed, 30 May 2007 14:47:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (memson) Comments RE: Mmmm okay http://osnews.com/thread?244113 http://osnews.com/thread?244113 I agree with the ergonomics issue. While this would be great for stores or other promotional, 3-minute-at-a-time uses, it would probably hurt your neck during extended periods of time for home use.

What they could do, however, is allow the opposite top edge of the coffee table to open up, say, to 45 degrees or so, and lock into position. It might look weird, but I think this would make it easier to use. This would allow it to double as a video screen (I apologize if any of this is in the video, I'm not able to watch it right now). Wed, 30 May 2007 14:59:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (LobalSurgery) Comments RE[2]: Correct me if I'm wrong... http://osnews.com/thread?244116 http://osnews.com/thread?244116 yes I have noticed that iPhone that was demoed used same screen movements for zoom/pan/magnify as aon that demo. So those guys did quite well in big corporate world. Kudos to them. Hopefully we will see more of cool tech hitting mainstream in this year. Wed, 30 May 2007 15:00:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Yogurth) Comments can't wait http://osnews.com/thread?244117 http://osnews.com/thread?244117 to try this baby with my ubuntu and beryl. Wed, 30 May 2007 15:03:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (lester) Comments RE: and PS http://osnews.com/thread?244124 http://osnews.com/thread?244124 The device recognition is amazing, and how it works with the display.

MSR demoed something very similar a few years ago. Wed, 30 May 2007 15:25:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (CPUGuy) Comments RE[2]: What it looks like in real life http://osnews.com/thread?244130 http://osnews.com/thread?244130 "Wow, maybe this new computer table isn't so different after all!"
This should become a running joke.Edited 2007-05-30 15:43 Wed, 30 May 2007 15:42:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Buck) Comments RE[2]: Sometimes MS does good http://osnews.com/thread?244132 http://osnews.com/thread?244132 Are you serious? All the tech industry is is improving on other peoples' ideas. Everyone always gives Apple mad props for being innovative..but wait, wasn't the iPod just improving an existing technology (mp3 players), and isn't the AppleTV just a smaller version of SlingBox or, dare I say, a Media Center Extender'd XBOX 360?

While I love to bash Microsoft as much as the next sad, no-lifed technophile, it appears people are reaching for straws with their method of bashing this "useful" and "fun" technology. Remember, it is only stealing if Microsoft does it, if it is Apple, Google etc. it is INNOVATION. Wed, 30 May 2007 15:51:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (byrc) Comments Awesome concept http://osnews.com/thread?244136 http://osnews.com/thread?244136 This concept will be even better when it is combined with super thin and flexible screen technology now in development. I can't wait for the first Mac version. Maybe a some Linux developers will create similar software. That way we wouldn't be stuck with a Microsoft only version! Wed, 30 May 2007 16:08:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (solidsnake) Comments RE[2]: Mmmm okay http://osnews.com/thread?244139 http://osnews.com/thread?244139 Except that it isn't our 'job' to have fun, and if something is remotely more difficult than an existing technology, I can't see people using it.

It's not that it's tiring or anything, it's just awkward. If they get the visibility issues sorted, it'd make a great light table with a few modifications. Remember though, that this isn't sort of desktop height, it's coffee table height which is lower and more awkward to use.

Coffee tables aren't work surfaces, they're temporary storage locations where you shove things like remote controls, cameras (the one good thing about this table) and cups of.. um.. coffee. Wed, 30 May 2007 16:18:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (thecwin) Comments RE[3]: Sometimes MS does good http://osnews.com/thread?244141 http://osnews.com/thread?244141 Well, not exactly. I would have no gripes if they would actually acknowledge the work of others (like Jef Han).

However go to here http://www.microsoft.com/surface/ and read the "Origins" section and you would think that Microsoft has come up with this wonderful idea and innovative interface.

There are three options:

a. Microsoft simply lie or very much stretch the term "Innovation"

b. They actually do not licence the technology and have developed this interface themselves (in parallel to others like Jeff Han)

c. They actually funded Jeff Han's team and resaerch effort

Well, judging from MS track record of "Innovation" i think option a) is the most plausible, however i am open to be surprised. Wed, 30 May 2007 16:31:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (searly) Comments RE: Awesome concept http://osnews.com/thread?244142 http://osnews.com/thread?244142 Do you honestly think that this gizmo will have H/W that Microsoft will let you willingly put another Operating System On?
It will probably self destruct if you open the box
If not then
There will be a zillion patents that MS will fight tooth and nail to protect that this closed system will stay that way forever.
Then there is DRM/DMCA and all sorts of gunk that they will employ to stop other from modding or fiddling with the system.
That is not to say that other manufactures will not make other devices of similar (not identical in case of patent lawsuits) functionality that may run OS/X, Linux or whatever.
Thankfully US Patents are not enforceable everywhere in the world(yet) Wed, 30 May 2007 16:34:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (shotsman) Comments RE: Kidney http://osnews.com/thread?244143 http://osnews.com/thread?244143 yeah, thats really awesome looking. some of it, like when he painted the hair will both hands, was kinda slow updating on the screen. but that is still neat ;) Wed, 30 May 2007 16:35:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (helf) Comments RE: Awesome concept http://osnews.com/thread?244144 http://osnews.com/thread?244144 Well on some level there is a project that started which is similar. It is called lowfat http://macslow.thepimp.net/?page_id=18 ... currently stuck though due to lack of time and funding as far as i understand.

some videos:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kKN5npo8osc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GkrM4ymkiDo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ViKhwdXmmEEdited 2007-05-30 16:40 Wed, 30 May 2007 16:36:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (searly) Comments Come out of Cacoon and learn to Fly... http://osnews.com/thread?244153 http://osnews.com/thread?244153 I read all above posts. One thing is common in thoughts. Don't appreciate anything good, innovative product done by others. All of you are giving 100 execuses why you won't use it before even touching it. At least wait till it comes in market.
Person wearing black sunglasses, ses all the world black
Person having jaundice sees all the world yellow
Person using free OS sees all the world as money sucker
STOP it and don't give execuses, because you don't have that tech product and no way linux/unix can make on it...
MS is copying hitech hardware from others? just think for a moment and tell me what innovative software CONCEPT you guys have DEVELOPED up with other than copycating windows interface to dream of stealing marketshare...Edited 2007-05-30 17:10 Wed, 30 May 2007 17:02:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (rakamaka) Comments Cool product regardless of who released it http://osnews.com/thread?244154 http://osnews.com/thread?244154 Since yesterday I'd seen a few headlines regarding this, but didn't bother to read the articles (too busy).

But I just now watched the cnet video and Popular Mechanics video (the videos linked to in the "Instant Update" portion of the osnews.com summary). The cnet video impressed me, then the Popular Mechanics video blew me away. This is too cool. Were I a bit richer, I'd get one myself. :p

For those of you citing Jeff Han and his MultiTouch tech (by which, I assume, some are implying that Microsoft did nothing more than rip him off), he appears in the Popular Mechanics video. The video acknowledges that Surface Computing makes use of multitouch. So Jeff Han is acknowledged (though I couldn't tell from the video if Microsoft is making use of Han's tech in particular). But Surface Computing has been in development for 5 years. That should tell you that it's not simply a rip off; a lot of work has been put into it.

I just wish more tech-geeks could enjoy technical advancements and cool products without worrying about whether they hate the company that released it and therefore feel compelled to *reach* for reasons to belittle the product or even outright bash it.

Here's a tip: Whenever a company that you hate releases a product that you think "ain't all that", just imagine that a company that you love released the exact same product, and then see if you feel the same way. Do the reverse regarding a company that you love releasing a product that you reflexively gush over.Edited 2007-05-30 17:22 Wed, 30 May 2007 17:03:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (MollyC) Comments WoW! http://osnews.com/thread?244155 http://osnews.com/thread?244155 That's one of the coolest things I've ever seen. Dot.

Microsoft is aggresively entering the hardware field. No wonder Intel and its old-days-fellows are not hating them ;-)

5-10,000 bucks to get it's still very much but this is impressive ;-) Wed, 30 May 2007 17:12:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (TBPrince) Comments RE[2]: Kidney http://osnews.com/thread?244161 http://osnews.com/thread?244161 "IMO they're just trying to sell an unfinished product to take the market. It's what they've always done in the past at least."

No shit sherlock...welcome to the world of business. Ever been to a trade show before? An auto show?

Besides, if it was finished wouldn't it be on sale now? Wed, 30 May 2007 17:53:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (jayson.knight) Comments RE http://osnews.com/thread?244168 http://osnews.com/thread?244168
You're right, from XP on it's been red instead of blue, if I recall correctly. The reason you don't see them is that there is a key in the registry that reboots the system instead...


Actually, the RSOD is only if it dies at certain points in the boot loader from what I remember. If you have it enabled you'll still get a normal blue screen from a crash while it's running. Wed, 30 May 2007 18:13:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (anevilyak) Comments RE: Cool product regardless of who released it http://osnews.com/thread?244169 http://osnews.com/thread?244169 "I just wish more tech-geeks could enjoy technical advancements and cool products without worrying about whether they hate the company that released it and therefore feel compelled to *reach* for reasons to belittle the product or even outright bash it. "

Amen. If the video had declared this an "iTable" or a "Tablebuntu", people would be wetting themselves with excitement.

It is a neat idea. Sure, the practical uses for it aren't immediately obvious. New technology is always like that. Sure, it will be very expensive at first. New technology is always like that. The price will come down, and the applications will present themselves.

I am amazed at how narrow minded and short sighted some of the comments have been. Wed, 30 May 2007 18:14:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (siebharinn) Comments RE http://osnews.com/thread?244171 http://osnews.com/thread?244171 I thought tablets would be all the rage, and they didn't really catch on.

Although they seem to be gaining speed, at least here on campus: 80% of the laptops here are tablet PCs. (Another 10% are just XP or 2000 laptops, another 10% are Macs, and then there are the two guys who have Linux laptops and talk about Linux like Campus Crusade for Christ talks about Jesus.) Wed, 30 May 2007 18:15:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Almafeta) Comments RE[3]: Mmmm okay http://osnews.com/thread?244174 http://osnews.com/thread?244174
Are people really that lazy? As someone who used to spend hours hunched over a lighttable moving slides and negatives around with my hands (and hunched over trays of chemicals and and elargers etc.) I can assure you it isn't a problem at all unless you happen to be the worlds most lazy and unfit person.


Maybe you're just superman. I'm a climber, and consider myself pretty fit, but when working at a pc for an extended period of time, my neck gets really sore. My brother-in-law suffers from a similar problem, except he gets migraines.

I've also tried to do varsity work on a coffee table, and being hunched over a table is even worse than sitting at a computer. It's all good and well during, but as soon as you try and get up...Edited 2007-05-30 18:35 Wed, 30 May 2007 18:33:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (MiliTux) Comments RE[2]: Cool product regardless of who released it http://osnews.com/thread?244176 http://osnews.com/thread?244176 If the video had declared this an "iTable" or a "Tablebuntu", people would be wetting themselves with excitement.

That would be an interesting experiment. Have a sophisticated video editor turn this 'Surface' into 'iTable' and release it onto Youtube or somesuch, and compare the reactions of the two... Wed, 30 May 2007 18:37:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Almafeta) Comments RE[4]: Sometimes MS does good http://osnews.com/thread?244178 http://osnews.com/thread?244178 (c)--funding is highly likely. Of the US (or maybe worldwide, I don't remember) CS graduate students in recent years, about 50% do internships at or receive grants from Microsoft Research. MSR was probably heavily behind the coffee table idea, just like they were behind the handwriting system in Vista, and Vista Speech Recognition.

Apple is good at UI design and marketing, but calling the Apple of the late 90's and today innovative in any other regard is frankly self-delusion. Wed, 30 May 2007 18:50:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (PlatformAgnostic) Comments RE[2]: fat fingers http://osnews.com/thread?244179 http://osnews.com/thread?244179 Would a stylus suffice? I think you could get pretty high-precision with that if the sensors were good enough. Wed, 30 May 2007 18:52:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (PlatformAgnostic) Comments RE[2]: Awesome concept http://osnews.com/thread?244181 http://osnews.com/thread?244181 There's no reason to suspect that Open-Sourcers will do anything useful with this technology even if the system is completely open.

The TabletPC can work just find with Linux, as it's just a Wacom tablet co-located with the screen. But doing anything useful with a tablet is difficult to program, and the software engineers skilled enough to do it probably want to be compensated commensurate with their abilities. Microsoft is hiring and paying for these people even though they're losing a bunch of money on it right now. Open Source simply can't do this, so you'll never see this kind of innovation coming from those folks.Edited 2007-05-30 18:57 Wed, 30 May 2007 18:56:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (PlatformAgnostic) Comments RE[4]: Mmmm okay http://osnews.com/thread?244184 http://osnews.com/thread?244184 but when working at a pc for an extended period of time, my neck gets really sore.

Probably you're just sitting improperly. Check this:

http://lifewithalacrity.blogs.com/photos/uncategorized/evolution.jp...

;) Wed, 30 May 2007 19:31:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (viton) Comments RE[3]: Cool product regardless of who released it http://osnews.com/thread?244186 http://osnews.com/thread?244186 Have a sophisticated video editor turn this 'Surface' into 'iTable'
You don't have to. It is called iPhone =) Wed, 30 May 2007 19:34:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (viton) Comments RE[3]: Who's gonna clean the screen? http://osnews.com/thread?244188 http://osnews.com/thread?244188 "People generally don't touch their display constantly or view things through their keyboard though.
Smudge is a real, practical problems for touch screens."

I've seen touchscreen games in some public places which have two twin screens, one (horizontal) for touching and the other one (vertical) for viewing. A system like this could be implemented, where you can see your fingertips in the vertical screen. You still can see the same image in the horizontal screen when in doubt.

Not quite as cool but more practical, IMO. Wed, 30 May 2007 19:46:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (wannabe geek) Comments RE http://osnews.com/thread?244193 http://osnews.com/thread?244193 Vista blue screens for me just about every time Windows Movie maker finishes 'publishing' a movie. The event list in the event viewer is no help either. Wed, 30 May 2007 20:05:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (robnix) Comments Detailed History on Multi-Touch systems http://osnews.com/thread?244195 http://osnews.com/thread?244195 Reading some other message boards, I found this informative link that gives a detailed history on Multi-Touch, starting from 1982 up to today (Microsoft Surface is the last entry).
http://www.billbuxton.com/multitouchOverview.html

Jeff Han and iPhone are mentioned, but so are lots of other people/efforts. The point is that everyone builds on what came before them, including Apple and Han (i.e. not just Microsoft).

BTW, the history is written by Microsoft's own Bill Buxton, so again, Microsoft has no problem acknowledging the previous work of others. Wed, 30 May 2007 20:29:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (MollyC) Comments RE http://osnews.com/thread?244196 http://osnews.com/thread?244196 more like RSOD ;) Edited 2007-05-30 20:36 Wed, 30 May 2007 20:36:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Mellin) Comments RE[3]: Awesome concept http://osnews.com/thread?244197 http://osnews.com/thread?244197 Yeah. Closed source has one big advantage over open source, a good revenue stream. Can't do much R&D without that. Wed, 30 May 2007 20:40:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (codehead78) Comments So sue me... http://osnews.com/thread?244199 http://osnews.com/thread?244199 But that's just too darn much moving around just to get from point a to point b.

But for casinos and things like that, it's cool. Wed, 30 May 2007 20:54:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Sodapop) Comments RE[3]: and PS http://osnews.com/thread?244200 http://osnews.com/thread?244200 "
Well, the question should be - "What problem does this solve?"
And you can interact with your phones even without taking it out of your pocket - we have Bluetooth for that.
There's nothing wrong with WiFi either, technically there's no reason why it shouldn't just work whenever you're in the range (and it does).
As for the flying cars... well... Before we get to that point people will realize they don't need cars at all to be happy.
"

Both bluetooth and wifi aren't nearly as streightforward as plonking a device on a surface ;-)

besides - there was a time when 64k was 'good enough' for most people.

Innovations like these may not seem important to you now, but I can garentee that in 20+ years time, most of the skeptics reading this thread will be looking back wondering how they coped without such technologies Wed, 30 May 2007 21:02:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Laurence) Comments RE[2]: Awesome concept http://osnews.com/thread?244224 http://osnews.com/thread?244224 Yeah I was reminded of that when I saw the MS photo demos. Lowfat's demo is much more impressive, tho, imho, since it lets you easily pile and organize photos into groups, etc. Technically it's designed for a mouse but I'm sure it could be easily adapted to a touchscreen. Wed, 30 May 2007 22:22:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Moochman) Comments RE[3]: Awesome concept http://osnews.com/thread?244226 http://osnews.com/thread?244226 Well, you're right, but that doesn't mean open source won't be able to come up with a similar solution long-term, by the time tablet pcs really become mainstream. I eagerly await the day when I can buy a nice Linux tablet pc... or a _real_ tablet mac, either or ;-). Wed, 30 May 2007 22:26:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Moochman) Comments RE: Detailed History on Multi-Touch systems http://osnews.com/thread?244228 http://osnews.com/thread?244228 Thank god they are acknowledging the past work. It's a refreshing surprise, actually; I was expecting to be annoyed at them for trying to take all the credit and patent everything like they have all too often in the past.

...Bill Buxton is the man, tho. So much so that I don't begrudge him working at MS; if anything he's a breath of fresh air. It's nice knowing that MS *finally* has one or two decent design heads on board so the whole world can suffer a little bit less.Edited 2007-05-30 22:41 Wed, 30 May 2007 22:30:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Moochman) Comments RE[4]: Cool product regardless of who released it http://osnews.com/thread?244246 http://osnews.com/thread?244246 You are aware that having a touchscreen does not make the two devices identical? Wed, 30 May 2007 23:05:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Almafeta) Comments RE[3]: Who's gonna clean the screen? http://osnews.com/thread?244258 http://osnews.com/thread?244258
People generally don't touch their display constantly


You're lucky - I've often half-seriously wished for a way to cause a small punitive electrical shock to anyone who feels the need to poke at my screen in order to point something out. Wed, 30 May 2007 23:26:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (StephenBeDoper) Comments RE[5]: Cool product regardless of who released it http://osnews.com/thread?244268 http://osnews.com/thread?244268 You are aware that having a touchscreen does not make the two devices identical?

One could put a coffee cup on top of iPhone as well ;)
These next-gen devices will share common "multi-touch" interface and it is a GOOD thing. Wed, 30 May 2007 23:48:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (viton) Comments But.... http://osnews.com/thread?244298 http://osnews.com/thread?244298 Will it run the tabletop version of Ms. Pac-Man?

This thing is as useless as Flip 3D, and is a ergonomic nightmare.....all scrunched over, staring at the screen. The only place you're going to see this is in some mansion on MTV cribs.

Once again, Microsoft tries to out-do Apple, and shows us yet again, how incredibly true the Mac/PC commercials actually are. Thu, 31 May 2007 02:39:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Phloptical) Comments It's neat http://osnews.com/thread?244301 http://osnews.com/thread?244301 But I don't know if it's revolutionary. I do know that everyone I've shown the video to were really thrilled about it.

Like all advertisements, you don't see anything but the "fun". I can only imagine the level of configuration this requires to get devices to talk with it. Maybe it will just work, but I suspect a lot of IT people will have to learn another skill on the side. Thu, 31 May 2007 02:58:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (richmassena) Comments 18-minute demo video http://osnews.com/thread?244312 http://osnews.com/thread?244312 I just got through watching a great 18-minute demo of Surface, if anyone is interested:
http://on10.net/Blogs/larry/first-look-microsoft-surfacing-computin... Thu, 31 May 2007 05:50:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (MollyC) Comments RE[4]: Mmmm okay http://osnews.com/thread?244332 http://osnews.com/thread?244332 Have you considered not working at a pc for extended periods of time? I find that getting and walking around up for a minute or so at regular intervals helps a lot.

I'm sure when this table hits the market it will be available in different models, many with adjustable heights so that you can stand or sit comfortably when working at it. Thu, 31 May 2007 09:56:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (dagw) Comments RE[2]: Who's gonna clean the screen? http://osnews.com/thread?244337 http://osnews.com/thread?244337 In reality it's actually 2 less devices to clean.

How often do you clean your keyboard and mouse? perhaps once a month.

How often do you clean your screen? many times a day, especially if other people come by and want to show you something on the screen.

however the results can arguably be more impressive as it allows the DJ to build and layer a track up with greater precision and flexibility than turntables ever could

But it is not as fun as using real turntables is. Thu, 31 May 2007 10:50:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (axilmar) Comments RE: What it looks like in real life http://osnews.com/thread?244338 http://osnews.com/thread?244338 It's a fake image. Thu, 31 May 2007 10:53:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (axilmar) Comments Can we have a multimouse screen? http://osnews.com/thread?244340 http://osnews.com/thread?244340 I could do wonders with my hands using two mice at the same time. For starters, FPS games could be much more realistic, because I would be able to grab and manipulate objects with much greater ease. Drawing and rotating objects on the screen could be just as easy... Thu, 31 May 2007 10:56:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (axilmar) Comments RE http://osnews.com/thread?244373 http://osnews.com/thread?244373 You're right, from XP on it's been red instead of blue, if I recall correctly. The reason you don't see them is that there is a key in the registry that reboots the system instead...

It's still blue in XP and yes autoreboot can be changed in the registry but it can also be changed in the safe mode menu after a blue screen reboot. I still see a lot of MACHINE_CHECK_EXCEPTION and BAD_POOL_CALLER blue screens on XP. Rolling back the registry usually does the trick. Thu, 31 May 2007 14:17:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (abraxas) Comments RE[2]: fat fingers http://osnews.com/thread?244377 http://osnews.com/thread?244377 Very good point. Being a graphic designer, I need the precision of a cursor.

You could be pixel precise with this interface. The interface is completely scalable. You could scale a pixel to the size of your head if you wanted to. It would be difficult to miss that. Thu, 31 May 2007 14:49:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (abraxas) Comments I saw it before: http://osnews.com/thread?244477 http://osnews.com/thread?244477 http://chaosradio.ccc.de/ctv047.html

Ms turns it into a consumer concept. Thu, 31 May 2007 21:16:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Elektro) Comments It's been done http://osnews.com/thread?244509 http://osnews.com/thread?244509 It's been demonstrated before.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RPwaUp4gepU

I hope this doesn't cause a patent war. Thu, 31 May 2007 23:10:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (mikesum32) Comments RE: It's been done http://osnews.com/thread?244520 http://osnews.com/thread?244520 Looks like Microsoft is using a different method, so they're won't be any patent wars.

http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20070530-what-lurks-below-micr... Fri, 01 Jun 2007 00:03:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (MollyC) Comments RE: It's been done http://osnews.com/thread?244532 http://osnews.com/thread?244532 It's definitely nothing new, but we're used to it with MS.

Philips also showed a very similar prototype, except they targeted it at gaiming, but it's really just a multitouch object-sensing table anyway:
http://www.research.philips.com/newscenter/archive/2006/060104-ente...

Plus there are existing shipping devices using multitouch already, like that DJ thingy:
http://www.jazzmutant.com/lemur_overview.php
And that bar table:
http://www.adnpc.net/news/voir.php?id=4281 Fri, 01 Jun 2007 01:10:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (mmu_man) Comments RE[4]: Who's gonna clean the screen? http://osnews.com/thread?244830 http://osnews.com/thread?244830 And they need to include a pony with every purchase. (100) Sat, 02 Jun 2007 06:23:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Moulinneuf) Comments