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OSNews: http://www.osnews.com/story/18328/DesktopBSD_1_6RC3_Released Exploring the Future of Computing en-us Copyright 2001-2009, David Adams adam+nospam@osnews.com Tue, 10 Nov 2009 09:25:59 GMT http://www.osnews.com/images/osnews.gif OSNews.com http://www.osnews.com No troll comment so far? http://osnews.com/thread?258216 http://osnews.com/thread?258216 Are trolls sleeping? No one to say BSD is dead? Linux is better? Thu, 26 Jul 2007 00:40:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Joe User) Comments BSD rocks! http://osnews.com/thread?258218 http://osnews.com/thread?258218 Just woke up

BSD is alive! (sorry)
Can't wait to try this. I really believe DesktopBSD
is shaping up to be the most solid
desktop system.
What I'm waiting for in addition to a fast, robust
system is:

(1) full flash-9 support
(2) nice looking asian-language fonts like fedora has
(3) Realplayer (or a helixplayer replacement)

It would also be nice to have some kind of virtulization for BSD as a host. Maybe freebsd-7 will
have that.

When this happens it's goodbye linux. Thu, 26 Jul 2007 00:53:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (OStourist) Comments PC-BSD http://osnews.com/thread?258221 http://osnews.com/thread?258221 Have PC-BSD and DesktopBSD thought about merging efforts towards just one killer product? Thu, 26 Jul 2007 01:30:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (ebasconp) Comments RE: PC-BSD http://osnews.com/thread?258234 http://osnews.com/thread?258234 Anybody know of any reviews comparing the two? Pros/cons of each? I've done some searching but haven't found anything, especially dealing with the two new versions. I would, but I'd like another HD first...

Thu, 26 Jul 2007 02:25:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (ThawkTH) Comments RE: BSD rocks! http://osnews.com/thread?258269 http://osnews.com/thread?258269

It would also be nice to have some kind of virtulization for BSD as a host.

FreeBSD has jails, and of course Qemu in the ports. (don´t know if DesktopBSD has a package but it probably will) Thu, 26 Jul 2007 06:35:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (JamesTRexx) Comments RE: BSD rocks! http://osnews.com/thread?258290 http://osnews.com/thread?258290 FreeBSD can run linux binairies.
There's a commercial virtualisazion package called win4bsd though. Thu, 26 Jul 2007 08:56:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (netpython) Comments RE: PC-BSD http://osnews.com/thread?258292 http://osnews.com/thread?258292 I believe merge isn't possible without a consent of the company that bought PC-BSD. In other words, this company would have to buy DesktopBSD too and the guys at DesktopBSD need to agree in order for a merger to go ahead. PC-BSD is no longer a stand alone non-commercial project but this is good.Edited 2007-07-26 09:25 Thu, 26 Jul 2007 09:22:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (OSGuy) Comments RE: PC-BSD http://osnews.com/thread?258297 http://osnews.com/thread?258297 Why should we do it? There is just a different approach of doing things and it's good if people have the choice. Thu, 26 Jul 2007 09:44:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Oliver) Comments RE[2]: PC-BSD http://osnews.com/thread?258299 http://osnews.com/thread?258299 -both of them are FreeBSD. Period.
-it's no Linux distro competition approach
-both of them are using FreeBSD-stable, KDE, Xorg 7.x
-PC-BSD is using the optional PBI installation
-DesktopBSD is using the tools of FreeBSD

So in the end it's different. If you're "in need" of benchmarks, test FreeBSD. Comparing two FreeBSD systems is just nonsense, because FreeBSD is always the *complete* operating system, not just a kernel. Thu, 26 Jul 2007 09:52:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Oliver) Comments RE: BSD rocks! http://osnews.com/thread?258300 http://osnews.com/thread?258300 I'm sorry so it will never happen. Of course there is work going on in terms of a native Realplayer. But Adobe/Macromedia has no interest in porting Flash to non-hype platforms. Asian-language fonts should be no problem. And virtulization, well, in terms of Vmware ask Vmware. Xen is an on-going project by the way and KVM a SoC project. Thu, 26 Jul 2007 09:55:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Oliver) Comments RE[2]: BSD rocks! http://osnews.com/thread?258317 http://osnews.com/thread?258317 Well thanks for your comment Olive. I Think
there is a flash-9 player in ports if
I recall and i got it to work in PC-BSD for
about 3 seconds before it crashed

I have heard someone has got flash-9 to work
in linux emulated firefox via greasemonkey extension
and hackery.
So it sounds like Someone is working on it..!
The korean langauge display was a nice touch..It's good
but could be better(www,yahoo.co.kr is a testbed and y the fonts spaghetti across the page)

Another problem is the playing of audio CDs..
Only Amarock could do it and only after I changed the default output engine to oss. Maybe some recompiling
of KDE binaries with freebsd ad not linux alsa is needed?
Overall it seems so far so good though! Thu, 26 Jul 2007 12:18:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (OStourist) Comments RE[3]: PC-BSD http://osnews.com/thread?258319 http://osnews.com/thread?258319 So in the end it's different. If you're "in need" of benchmarks, test FreeBSD. Comparing two FreeBSD systems is just nonsense

There *ARE* differences between these two systems, and you know it, so asking for a comparison is not "just nonsense". Thu, 26 Jul 2007 12:40:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Joe User) Comments RE[3]: PC-BSD http://osnews.com/thread?258320 http://osnews.com/thread?258320 from the FAQ

Why DesktopBSD? There's already PC-BSD!

DesktopBSD development started about one year before PC-BSD suddenly appeared, therefore DesktopBSD is definitively no copy and not about rivalry against PC-BSD. It's quite possible that PC-BSD and DesktopBSD can profit from each other in the future.

What is the difference between DesktopBSD and PC-BSD?

DesktopBSD uses all of the powerful and functional features that FreeBSD offers while PC-BSD rather introduces new, alternative systems instead. The best example of this is DesktopBSD's Package Manager, which is in fact simply a comfortable front-end to the reliable and well-established FreeBSD "Ports" system. PC-BSD on the other hand utilises a new system of installing packages using a *.pbi package. The latter does not integrate with the system installed but wraps itself around the operating system and uses what it needs.

(http://www.desktopbsd.net/index.php?id=33)

This is what people were asking. Thu, 26 Jul 2007 13:01:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (google_ninja) Comments RE[2]: BSD rocks! http://osnews.com/thread?258321 http://osnews.com/thread?258321 Neither is really like KVM or Xen in Linux Thu, 26 Jul 2007 13:03:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (google_ninja) Comments RE[2]: BSD rocks! http://osnews.com/thread?258349 http://osnews.com/thread?258349 Although I really like BSD and Solaris I mostly run Linux. I have recently ported Slackware to MIPS and am soon going to do a SPARC port and am having the same problems as the BSDs on x86.

In my opinion the only solution is to complete projects such as Gnash and/or BSD/CDDL licensed equivalents to make these platform and architecture dependent binaries obsolete.

While these proprietary companies once had an advancing role for platform uptake they are now mainly a hindrance to the free development and use of platforms and in that respect they are taking choice away from users. Thu, 26 Jul 2007 16:54:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (psychicist) Comments RE[3]: BSD rocks! http://osnews.com/thread?258513 http://osnews.com/thread?258513 "Another problem is the playing of audio CDs.."

For initial checks, you can first ensure

% mixer cd vol 100

and then use

% cdcontrol play

or

% cdcontrol -f /dev/acd0 play 1

if neccessary. Refer to "man cdcontrol" and "man mixer". The program cdcontrol belongs to the base OS and is, along with mixer, a good starting point for diagnostics.

You can use xmms's audio CD player functionality or stick to "old fashioned" tools like xcd.

"Only Amarock could do it and only after I changed the default output engine to oss. Maybe some recompiling of KDE binaries with freebsd ad not linux alsa is needed?"

Uh, this sounds very complicated and should not be neccessary. Honestly, who wants to recompile KDE? If neccessary, use pkg_add -r with the proper package names. The situation you're describing seems to illustrate a problem with KDE and sound. Check basics first. Thu, 26 Jul 2007 22:18:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Doc Pain) Comments RE[4]: BSD rocks! http://osnews.com/thread?258628 http://osnews.com/thread?258628 It's an audio cable not present, most of the time. If you don't have an audio cable between your CD drive and the main board, Linux/BSD won't play your audio CD because it relies on analogic technology instead of digital technology like Windows. Time of cavemen. Fri, 27 Jul 2007 09:45:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Joe User) Comments RE[5]: BSD rocks! http://osnews.com/thread?258647 http://osnews.com/thread?258647 You know you are right I think.I did try
the command line suggested above and
got NO SOUND and no errors either It's amazing
that KDE and maybe Gnome too have not cleaned
up their legacy applications to allow digital
option. I remember having this problem
5 years ago for &&** sake.
Fortunately SOME music jukeboxes will work
Amarok has no problem in Linux or FreeBSD. Fri, 27 Jul 2007 11:06:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (OStourist) Comments RE[6]: BSD rocks! http://osnews.com/thread?258679 http://osnews.com/thread?258679 As it has meen explained before, the use of the internal (analog) audio connector is neccessary to use the method of analog mixing. Some mainboards or audio cards provide more than one connector (the "cheap" stuff I'm using provides three internal, actually using one for the DVD drive, one for the CD recorder and one for the PD/CD drive, along with one external).

Surely you don't have this special cable installed. Your diagnostics show it:

"I did try the command line suggested above and got NO SOUND and no errors either"

Interpret this in the correct manner: If no error message is displayed, the CD drive plays audio correctly. You just don't hear it. If your CD drive has a headphone connector on its front, you can check it easily: You will hear the CD playing. Maybe a LED is blinking, too. Of course you can create a strange (but working) bypass by plugging a 3.5mm stereo cable from the front connector of the CD drive into the line in connector of your audio card. :-)

"It's amazing that KDE and maybe Gnome too have not cleaned up their legacy applications to allow digital option. "

I don't think analog audio is "legacy", but I see the problem. Maybe the inability to play audio from digital data ("over the ATA cable") is a problem at kernel level? Maybe someone can rectify... but...

"Fortunately SOME music jukeboxes will work Amarok has no problem in Linux or FreeBSD."

... maybe the functionality described above is at application level? Unfortunately, I cannot find any hint within the according manuals. Fri, 27 Jul 2007 13:35:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Doc Pain) Comments PC-BSD vs DesktopBSD http://osnews.com/thread?258712 http://osnews.com/thread?258712 PC-BSD now has GUI tools like DesktopBSD and also has PBI.

DesktopBSD has a 64-bit version.

I think a merge would make sense. Fri, 27 Jul 2007 15:09:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Xaero_Vincent) Comments RE[7]: BSD rocks! http://osnews.com/thread?258721 http://osnews.com/thread?258721 "Of course you can create a strange (but working) bypass by plugging a 3.5mm stereo cable from the front connector of the CD drive into the line in connector of your audio card. :-)"

Well like any computer sold in the last 5 years(at least in Korea) there is NO audio card. These are
prosumer things now, and AC'97 or HDA audio on-board
is more than good enough for most people.
Again I think it is the case that these tools
simply haven't kept pace with computer hardware
development.

Fri, 27 Jul 2007 15:28:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (OStourist) Comments RE[8]: BSD rocks! http://osnews.com/thread?258746 http://osnews.com/thread?258746 "Well like any computer sold in the last 5 years(at least in Korea) there is NO audio card."

This is correct. I bought my last one many years ago but decided not to use the AC'97 crap. Instead, I installed a PCI card with CMI chipset for better performance. As far as I know, the AC'97 and MC'97 do emulate sound cards or modems respectively, creating extra system load for the CPU which has to perform the sound card or modem functionalities.

Maybe it's the same situation with digital audio data transfer via ATA cable - more CPU load? I don't know...

"These are prosumer things now, and AC'97 or HDA audio on-board is more than good enough for most people."

In most cases this is true. For special needs I'm glad to have the option to use other hardware. For example, MC'97 modems do barely support standards which makes them hardly usabe or unusable with modern OSes (e. g. FreeBSD). I'd still prefer a serial modem if needed, such as I prefer a "stand alone" audio card for better performance and driver support.

% dmesg | grep ^pcm ; cat /dev/sndstat
pcm0: port 0xd400-0xd4ff irq 16 at device 7.0 on pci3
FreeBSD Audio Driver (newpcm)
Installed devices:
pcm0: at io 0xd400 irq 16 (1p/1r/0v channels duplex default

"Again I think it is the case that these tools simply haven't kept pace with computer hardware
development.

"

If hardware specific techniques have become standard, software should try to support them. Maybe the ATA audio data transfer has an equivalent at kernel level in order to make it work everywhere? I'll go and investigate.

But on the other hand, downwards compatibility is important. Especially FreeBSD is a great OS to create usable computers even with 150 MHz 586 CPUs (my personal minimum). While the quotient "speed = hardware / software" stays the same with MICROS~1 OSes on recent hardware, FreeBSD is always impressing by speed improvements on the same (!) hardware. That's why it is important to have in mind, thatt older hardware is still in use (just because it works), so abandoning support for this "easy" stuff would be bad. Just think about how great SCSI works with BSD, allthough almost no one seems to use it anymore (I still have to). :-) Fri, 27 Jul 2007 17:17:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Doc Pain) Comments