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OSNews: http://www.osnews.com/story/18583/KDE_4_0_Release_Schedule_Revised Exploring the Future of Computing en-us Copyright 2001-2009, David Adams adam+nospam@osnews.com Mon, 09 Nov 2009 23:36:06 GMT http://www.osnews.com/images/osnews.gif OSNews.com http://www.osnews.com more? http://osnews.com/thread?269536 http://osnews.com/thread?269536 Im so feed up of KDE 4 that Im starting to hate it. Fri, 07 Sep 2007 14:26:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Manuma) Comments take your times http://osnews.com/thread?269537 http://osnews.com/thread?269537 I would much rather them take their time then rush a product. though putting out definative dead lines for somethign this big almost seems silly. I usuly go by the "2 more weeks" or "when its done" release method. Fri, 07 Sep 2007 14:27:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (poundsmack) Comments I'll start using it before that.... http://osnews.com/thread?269538 http://osnews.com/thread?269538 I'll probably start using it when they at least get some sort of workable taskbar/menu in there. I'm hoping this will be somewhat soon. Fri, 07 Sep 2007 14:33:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (pllb) Comments Well http://osnews.com/thread?269549 http://osnews.com/thread?269549 I don't know about you guys but I'm going to wait until 4.1 before I try anything.

Hopefully all the plasma goodness will be demonstrated by then and a good set of bugs will be knocked off into the water. Fri, 07 Sep 2007 15:01:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Xaero_Vincent) Comments RE: more? http://osnews.com/thread?269555 http://osnews.com/thread?269555 You may hate KDE 4, but KDE 4 loves you! Fri, 07 Sep 2007 15:14:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (diegocg) Comments RE: take your times http://osnews.com/thread?269578 http://osnews.com/thread?269578 The 'when it's done' method does not work, case in point: "Duke Nukem Forever"...need I say more?! Fri, 07 Sep 2007 16:14:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (mlauzon) Comments cool http://osnews.com/thread?269580 http://osnews.com/thread?269580 dealBrowser: Links (2.1pre28; Linux 2.6.20-hardened-r6 x86_64; x) Fri, 07 Sep 2007 16:22:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (netpython) Comments repeat? http://osnews.com/thread?269585 http://osnews.com/thread?269585 how is this news? I thought this was announced last week ... Fri, 07 Sep 2007 16:32:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (cg0def) Comments RE[2]: take your times http://osnews.com/thread?269586 http://osnews.com/thread?269586 Or a little closer to home. E17, Need i say more? Fri, 07 Sep 2007 16:35:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (apoclypse) Comments RE: Well http://osnews.com/thread?269588 http://osnews.com/thread?269588 I'm the more adventurous type so as soon as packages are released I'll be upgrading. Not adventurous enough to compile them from source on release day though as I'm much too lazy for that. Fri, 07 Sep 2007 16:38:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (TaterSalad) Comments Waiting to see http://osnews.com/thread?269589 http://osnews.com/thread?269589 I'm waiting to see what the PC-BSD and DesktopBSD guys can do with this. Fri, 07 Sep 2007 16:38:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (TaterSalad) Comments RE: Well http://osnews.com/thread?269593 http://osnews.com/thread?269593

"I don't know about you guys but I'm going to wait until 4.1 before I try anything. "

I'll be trying it out on as a VM image as soon as it's out.

Might even try the beta's out this weekend if i get time..... Fri, 07 Sep 2007 16:44:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Laurence) Comments Kubuntu... http://osnews.com/thread?269596 http://osnews.com/thread?269596 I think we're going to see Kubuntu really shine with this release....

Before it seemed kinda like Ubuntu witha vanilla KDE tossed on top. Which isn't bad by any means. I think most Kubuntu users will agree however that it's felt like it was lacking a lot of the polish and perks we see in Ubuntu.

With KDE4 (4.1) I think we're going to start seeing some real polish and thought put in.

I can dream right?

I can dream, but I can't WAIT! Fri, 07 Sep 2007 16:46:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (ThawkTH) Comments RE[3]: take your times http://osnews.com/thread?269602 http://osnews.com/thread?269602 a combination of "when it's ready" and a rough deadline works the best Fri, 07 Sep 2007 17:02:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (spikeb) Comments RE[4]: take your times http://osnews.com/thread?269604 http://osnews.com/thread?269604 When is it ready?
Isn't KDE like the kernel itself in constant development?

(not meant malignent!) Fri, 07 Sep 2007 17:06:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (netpython) Comments RE: Kubuntu... http://osnews.com/thread?269608 http://osnews.com/thread?269608 No, I just think they did Kubuntu wrong, instead of using whats there already in Ubuntu they did a package manager fronend that is screwy. Synaptic works great in Ubuntu and it should work exactly the same in Kubuntu, but it just dont.

They could do the same for KDE4, dont make any difference . Fri, 07 Sep 2007 17:11:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (SlackerJack) Comments Kubuntu.. http://osnews.com/thread?269609 http://osnews.com/thread?269609 Afaik Kubuntu won't be putting it in the 8.04 rls although it will be in the repositories, although I've heard they will have an unofficial CD for it. Either way, I'll be sticking with my trusty Debian install to test it out. I prefer the Debian way of keeping KDE as vanilla as possible.Edited 2007-09-07 17:15 Fri, 07 Sep 2007 17:13:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (pllb) Comments RE: repeat? http://osnews.com/thread?269618 http://osnews.com/thread?269618

I thought this was announced last week ...

It has been revised. Main difference is that there will be an SDK-like "platform" release around the time the original release had been planned for, i.e. end of October.

I guess the intention is to have a released "library and required runtime" set available for third party developers before the main 4.0 release, so they can release their KDE4 versions simultaniously or shortly after. Fri, 07 Sep 2007 17:32:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (anda_skoa) Comments KDE 4 - some impressions http://osnews.com/thread?269628 http://osnews.com/thread?269628 I compile KDE 4 from svn once a week or so and I have to say it got quite useable lately. I really like the Oxygen Style. It is not finished, but it already looks quite good and everything looks very clean. I also like the new Oxygen icons. kwin includes a composition manager now. kwin always was my favorite window manager. It just works and feels right. kwin now includes many of the effects known from compiz/beryl and they work quite well. The new plasma taskbar looks quite good, but it still lacks lots of features. Applications like kwrite/kate and konsole are already quite stable and look more clean then the KDE3.5 versions. Konqueror used to be quite stable, but at the moment it crashes after some seconds, but I am sure that this will be fixed soon. In the beginning KDE developers mostly worked on the libraries/frameworks and there wasn't much to see, but that slowly changes and you now can already get a good idea how KDE 4 will look when it is released. Fri, 07 Sep 2007 18:28:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (michi) Comments RE: take your times http://osnews.com/thread?269640 http://osnews.com/thread?269640 If we see more RC's are needed, we will of course delay... Fri, 07 Sep 2007 19:04:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (superstoned) Comments RE[5]: take your times http://osnews.com/thread?269641 http://osnews.com/thread?269641 to a much lesser extend. We do have branches and stuff, but the kernel is much more volatile in that regard. Fri, 07 Sep 2007 19:05:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (superstoned) Comments RE: I'll start using it before that.... http://osnews.com/thread?269642 http://osnews.com/thread?269642 yeah, me too. Hopefully next beta... Fri, 07 Sep 2007 19:07:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (superstoned) Comments RE[2]: Kubuntu... http://osnews.com/thread?269646 http://osnews.com/thread?269646 If Adept (Kubuntu package front end) is all you think was done wrong, that's really not an issue at all...
You could use your own, or just use apt-get (like most Kubuntu users probably do)...

Do you feel Kubuntu is just "wrong" in some other way? Fri, 07 Sep 2007 19:31:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (ThawkTH) Comments Oy http://osnews.com/thread?269647 http://osnews.com/thread?269647 I love how people can't take the time to try out betas or even first releases of software but can comment on how they will use it later. Fri, 07 Sep 2007 19:38:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (jadeshade) Comments RE: Oy http://osnews.com/thread?269650 http://osnews.com/thread?269650 Such is the nature of beta software. Even of the people who did try it, only a small percentage will know how to file reports, and only a small percentage of them will actually do it. Fri, 07 Sep 2007 20:04:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Adam S) Comments RE[2]: Oy http://osnews.com/thread?269654 http://osnews.com/thread?269654 But the thing is, comments and criticisms are just a superset of bug reports. Fri, 07 Sep 2007 20:14:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (jadeshade) Comments RE[2]: repeat? http://osnews.com/thread?269656 http://osnews.com/thread?269656 They also moved up the final release date from Dec. 20th to the 11th, as some people thought that was a little to close to Christmas.Edited 2007-09-07 20:20 Fri, 07 Sep 2007 20:18:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (smitty) Comments RE[3]: Oy http://osnews.com/thread?269657 http://osnews.com/thread?269657 Only if the developer(s) get to read them. Otherwise they are just bugs, not reports.

Developers thrive on feedback. Often times, they can't wait to fix the stuff. The problem is that many users feel so entitled and are so cruel it just makes the devs mad. This is why traditional bug reports are often so much more productive. Fri, 07 Sep 2007 20:18:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Adam S) Comments I think when it is released... http://osnews.com/thread?269668 http://osnews.com/thread?269668 ...I'll try KDE 4.0 on Slackware. I am sure that even if KDE 4.0 is "missing" some features they had wanted to include that it will still be fast and stable. The other bits will come and will probably come shortly after. Fri, 07 Sep 2007 20:51:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Tuishimi) Comments RE[4]: Oy http://osnews.com/thread?269682 http://osnews.com/thread?269682 superset as in all bug reports are comments/criticisms, but not all criticism/comment is a bug report?

and I know how much developers can rock

Fri, 07 Sep 2007 21:19:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (jadeshade) Comments KDE4 http://osnews.com/thread?269702 http://osnews.com/thread?269702 I think it would be better if they wait until TrollTech releases that flicker-effect fix when resizing the controls.

Also they need to make the colors "warmer" to the human eye and sharpen up/polish the edges/corners of the widgets that they use. This will make the look "non-dull". An example of a warm color is the XP/Lunux "color-scheme". Note, I am not referring to the glowing toot-paste effect in Luna, instead I am referring to the actual color scheme only.

When it comes to the way the widgets looks (which is QT related really) they need to make the corners and edges of the controls thinner, more elegant and more professional. Here are a few examples of professional widgets: the UI controls in XP or the widgets in the Windows classic look, another example: GNU Step/Window Maker. The way the widgets look in Window maker is another example of "professional" business-like look. Until they achieve all this, KDE will always be "dull" for me. Now you can vote me down all you want just like last time because your disagree with me and the facts.

Also here is a ridiculously stupid unprofessional look. Compare this http://kde.org/announcements/announce_4.0-beta2/kword-big.png with the way even Office 97 Word looks like or Star Office 5.2 word document. Look at the ridiculously oversized bold, italic, underline buttons and the size of the icons, 100% dull, unprofessional look especially when compared to the rest of the office suites where the toolbar buttons are nice and neat. Unfortunately the rest of KDE is like that. The over all look of KDE's widgets is oversized. The buttons are too big, the combo boxes are too high/toll. For a dialog of a 3/4 controls, a "considerably large" portion of the screen will be occupied.Edited 2007-09-07 23:03 Fri, 07 Sep 2007 22:46:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (OSGuy) Comments Kongrats http://osnews.com/thread?269710 http://osnews.com/thread?269710 looking forward to seeing KDE4 in a future opensuse.

hopefully KDE 4.1 in opensuse 10.4 (11.0) in May 2008. Fri, 07 Sep 2007 23:06:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (REMF) Comments RE: KDE4 http://osnews.com/thread?269712 http://osnews.com/thread?269712 I think it would be better if they wait until TrollTech releases that flicker-effect fix when resizing the controls.

That's Qt 4.4, and if they waited for that to come out and then stabilized KDE on top of it they'd need to delay the release until next December. While the flicker-free effect will be nice I don't think anyone really wants to delay KDE by an entire year for it. Fri, 07 Sep 2007 23:16:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (smitty) Comments RE: KDE4 http://osnews.com/thread?269716 http://osnews.com/thread?269716
When it comes to the way the widgets looks (which is QT related really) they need to make the corners and edges of the controls thinner, more elegant and more professional. Here are a few examples of professional widgets: the UI controls in XP or the widgets in the Windows classic look, another example: GNU Step/Window Maker. The way the widgets look in Window maker is another example of "professional" business-like look. Until they achieve all this, KDE will always be "dull" for me. Now you can vote me down all you want just like last time because your disagree with me and the facts.

Also here is a ridiculously stupid unprofessional look. Compare this http://kde.org/announcements/announce_4.0-beta2/kword-big.png with the way even Office 97 Word looks like or Star Office 5.2 word document. Look at the ridiculously oversized bold, italic, underline buttons and the size of the icons, 100% dull, unprofessional look especially when compared to the rest of the office suites where the toolbar buttons are nice and neat. Unfortunately the rest of KDE is like that. The over all look of KDE's widgets is oversized. The buttons are too big, the combo boxes are too high/toll. For a dialog of a 3/4 controls, a "considerably large" portion of the screen will be occupied.

I agree with most of your observations. Kde does not look professional yet.
The fact it's a desktop and offers to users a bunch of possibilities to modify more or less everything might be part of the problem.
Another side of the problem is the HIG. AFAIK there is no clear HIG for kde 4 right now which is kinda weird imho (if I'm wrong please point me to the kde 4 hig I'll be glad to read it).

Hopefully, that will be fixed. Some day.Edited 2007-09-07 23:43 Fri, 07 Sep 2007 23:42:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (quenturi) Comments RE: more? http://osnews.com/thread?269720 http://osnews.com/thread?269720 Good for you. Now find an article that you DO like and post there and leave this one clean for us to discuss without your rubbish. Sat, 08 Sep 2007 00:08:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (1c3d0g) Comments RE: KDE4 http://osnews.com/thread?269725 http://osnews.com/thread?269725

The over all look of KDE's widgets is oversized. The buttons are too big, the combo boxes are too high/toll.

Man, you must really hate GTK... Sat, 08 Sep 2007 00:52:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (tristan) Comments RE[2]: KDE4 http://osnews.com/thread?269737 http://osnews.com/thread?269737

Another side of the problem is the HIG. AFAIK there is no clear HIG for kde 4 right now which is kinda weird imho (if I'm wrong please point me to the kde 4 hig I'll be glad to read it).

HIG is probably second only to FUD as an acronym that is sorely abused by tech enthusiasts and, far more often than not, in an improper context.

Regardless, the KDE project is working with openusability.org on developing standardized interface guidelines for KDE4. There has even been research and testing done. AFAIK, the lead on this effort is Celeste Lyn Paul, and she seems to be very good at it. You can search either through developer.kde.org or openusability.org. Sat, 08 Sep 2007 03:00:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (elsewhere) Comments RE[2]: KDE4 http://osnews.com/thread?269745 http://osnews.com/thread?269745 Oh please, you better not start me on GTK hehe

I prefer KDE instead of anything closely remotely related to GTK.Edited 2007-09-08 04:37 Sat, 08 Sep 2007 04:37:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (OSGuy) Comments RE[2]: take your times http://osnews.com/thread?269746 http://osnews.com/thread?269746 Yes. Considering how long the Duke Nukem Forever product has taken, do you really think they are waiting for bad reasons? Would it have been better to just ship junk and hope for the best?

Anyway, I don't like the long release cycle that they chose for the 4.0 release, either. Release early and often is much better even if that means forcing a trimmed stable release every 6-9 months.

But now that they've done it with the longer cycle for the initial 4.0, the best thing for them is to get it solid before the release. If that means a few weeks (or even a month or so) delay, then so be it. Sat, 08 Sep 2007 04:59:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (jsight) Comments RE[2]: take your times (While on Duke, OT) http://osnews.com/thread?269772 http://osnews.com/thread?269772 "The rovers Spirit and Opportunity were proposed, authorized, announced, designed, launched and successfully landed upon Mars within the timeframe of Duke Nukem Forever's development." Sat, 08 Sep 2007 10:59:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (gilboa) Comments i dont understand... http://osnews.com/thread?269908 http://osnews.com/thread?269908 How can you say "KDE looks dull" etc etc.?

Do you mean with the default theme (which is different between distributions anyway)?

If its not to your liking, then look for another theme that is. I'm sure you'll find one you like.

Not professional enough? I'm sure someone has created a theme that looks professional.

And even if this hasn't yet been done, its not a fault of KDE itself, it just needs the right themes/styles. This wouldn't be that difficult for the naysayers to actually do themselves. But of course whining is sooo much easier.

I'm pretty happy with many themes/styles in KDE and have always thought other OS's look extremely dated and boring in comparison. winxp is good but KDE is way more customizable and its only a few clicks to download new themes and styles. XP has the ability to use new themes but its not well supported by all apps and I dont even know if users can create their own. Are there even any other themes available? I've never seen any.

The look is only as good as the style you use - not a fault with Qt or the KDE team really. They cant please everyone (although they do try).

Mon, 10 Sep 2007 03:32:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (pixel8r) Comments AMAZING http://osnews.com/thread?269911 http://osnews.com/thread?269911 http://www.nuno-icons.com/images/estilo/image2476.png
http://www.nuno-icons.com/images/estilo/rect3048.png

http://pinheiro-kde.blogspot.com/ Mon, 10 Sep 2007 04:27:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (diego) Comments