http://www.osnews.com/story/18833/Gobe_Productive_Running_in_Haiku Exploring the Future of Computing en-us Copyright 2001-2009, David Adams adam+nospam@osnews.com Tue, 10 Nov 2009 07:45:38 GMT http://www.osnews.com/images/osnews.gif http://www.osnews.com http://osnews.com/thread?280955 http://osnews.com/thread?280955 If a complex product like Gobe's office suite is actually as stable as it is mentioned, then Haiku is shaping up to be a system usable by everyday folks.

As a symbol it's something important in the history of the Haiku project. Fri, 26 Oct 2007 12:38:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (vege) Comments http://osnews.com/thread?280970 http://osnews.com/thread?280970 May i dream of a White Christmas.. :} Fri, 26 Oct 2007 13:27:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (jeanmarc) Comments http://osnews.com/thread?280973 http://osnews.com/thread?280973 Good work, and best wishes Fri, 26 Oct 2007 13:28:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (judgen) Comments http://osnews.com/thread?280980 http://osnews.com/thread?280980 i agree, it shows the maturity of the compatibility system. Fri, 26 Oct 2007 13:41:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (spikeb) Comments http://osnews.com/thread?280989 http://osnews.com/thread?280989 I remember reading that they were expecting a beta at the end of the year. With the end of the year rapidly approaching, does this still seem likely to happen? Fri, 26 Oct 2007 14:19:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (saterdaies) Comments http://osnews.com/thread?280996 http://osnews.com/thread?280996 Alpha rather...(and it was just a loose remark somewhere). Fri, 26 Oct 2007 14:59:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Meanwhile) Comments http://osnews.com/thread?281005 http://osnews.com/thread?281005 It's autumn, leaves are falling... not just outside but even inside. Them leaves (bugs) are leaving the Haiku logo and the system itself. Soon the tree (codebase) will be clean and we'll see it flourish into green again =)

GoBe Productive, outdated for sure, but definitely a huge leap forward. Hits keep coming. I'm hopefull that we'll see an alpha release before x-mas. Good job everyone Fri, 26 Oct 2007 15:24:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Haicube) Comments http://osnews.com/thread?281021 http://osnews.com/thread?281021 Still use Gobe frequently. I converted a word document this morning as a happens. I am starting to get excited about the possibility of using Haiku in the next few months. If I can browse the net, do email and use Gobe then a lot of my key functions are covered. Fri, 26 Oct 2007 16:09:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Alchemy) Comments http://osnews.com/thread?281035 http://osnews.com/thread?281035 the current owners to release the BeOS version as FOSS. They can that way still focus on their Windoze version while giving the Haiku people a nice little something to bundle into the ISOs... Fri, 26 Oct 2007 16:44:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (madcrow) Comments http://osnews.com/thread?281044 http://osnews.com/thread?281044 Ditto - I still find the Productive spreadsheet app nicer to use than Excel for quick and dirty stuff. Fri, 26 Oct 2007 17:01:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (StephenBeDoper) Comments http://osnews.com/thread?281059 http://osnews.com/thread?281059 Who owns Gobe Productive now, and will it be available for purchase again? Fri, 26 Oct 2007 17:35:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Innominandum) Comments http://osnews.com/thread?281061 http://osnews.com/thread?281061 While being able to run gobe productive is an amazing step and merit (and I congratulate the Haiku team for such a huge accomplishment), I found gobe productive unsuitable for my everyday homework due to the lack of features.

I was most disappointed when I had to re-do the stuff I had made in gobe's spreadsheet app and inserted into a text document as a table, because when I exported it to doc format (since my printer did not work in BeOS back then) it appeared simply as centered "?"'s.

And I found gobe's much trumpeted "features" quite ordinary and already much superseded by competing office software. It was almost a rip-off for me. Fri, 26 Oct 2007 17:37:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (lanjoe9) Comments http://osnews.com/thread?281078 http://osnews.com/thread?281078 > the current owners to release the BeOS version as FOSS.

...and maybe LINUX will become closed source. That is as likely to happen. Fri, 26 Oct 2007 18:06:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (memson) Comments http://osnews.com/thread?281087 http://osnews.com/thread?281087 Not sure what you mean with "And I found gobe's much trumpeted "features" quite ordinary and already much superseded by competing office software. It was almost a rip-off for me."

With respect to that, did you notice how slim, fast and extremely well integrated GoBe productive is/was? I've used MSO since 2.0 to 2k7 and OOo since 1.0 to 2.24 and Koffice and plenty more GoBe as well. None can compete with GoBe in terms of speed and especially the incredible "project like" structure of document handling.

Seriously, taking a spreadsheet from Excel/scalc into the Word processor it simply isn't remotely as smooth as it was in GoBe.

Sure, it lacked a whole bunch of features, I agree it did, but the potential.... the potential was amazing! Fri, 26 Oct 2007 18:37:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Haicube) Comments http://osnews.com/thread?281143 http://osnews.com/thread?281143 Is GoBe running in the GCC 4 version of Haiku, or does it require the GCC 2.95 compiled version? Or has Haiku found a way to run 2.95 stuff in a 4 compiled system now?

It's pretty cool they have it running, but how much longer will they be stuck with 2.95? Fri, 26 Oct 2007 20:34:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (MamiyaOtaru) Comments http://osnews.com/thread?281158 http://osnews.com/thread?281158 ;)

Always loved my little BeOS, never tried the off-spring. Fri, 26 Oct 2007 22:04:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Googol) Comments http://osnews.com/thread?281166 http://osnews.com/thread?281166 I was thinking more along the lines of a blue Christmas decked with yellow tabs. ;p Fri, 26 Oct 2007 23:29:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (shykid) Comments http://osnews.com/thread?281167 http://osnews.com/thread?281167 what ever happened to the GPL release of gobe productive announcement from 2002? I remember it announced, I guess they stayed commercial? Fri, 26 Oct 2007 23:35:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (_df_) Comments http://osnews.com/thread?281184 http://osnews.com/thread?281184 You cannot convince them, impossible.
Not so long ago they "killed" Zeta and then ... they did nothing, absolutely nothing.
Fact is, it is their right to do so, because they own the BeOS/Dano source code. And it is also their right to do nothing with it in the future.
BeOS/Dano is not opensource, you know, Haiku is. Sat, 27 Oct 2007 02:29:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (nelvana2005) Comments http://osnews.com/thread?281189 http://osnews.com/thread?281189 "Not so long ago they [Gobe] "killed" Zeta and then ... they did nothing, absolutely nothing. "

What do you mean? That they disputed yellowTAB's practice to bundle Gobe's Software with Zeta?

"Fact is, it is their right to do so, because they own the BeOS/Dano source code. And it is also their right to do nothing with it in the future.
BeOS/Dano is not opensource, you know, Haiku is."

I think you get things mixed up. Gobe has no rights to BeOS' source code. That went to Palm, later Access.

BTW, here is the mentioned Gobe-to-be-GPLed article: http://www.osnews.com/story.php/1520/EXCLUSIVE-gobeProductive-to-be...

And how it never happened: http://www.osnews.com/story.php/2308/Obstacles-Leave-gobeProductive... Sat, 27 Oct 2007 03:37:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Humdinger) Comments http://osnews.com/thread?281210 http://osnews.com/thread?281210 While Haiku is actively developed such that it builds under 2.9x and 4.x, there is currently no compatibility layer that exists to run 2.9x C++ apps under the 4.x build. As of yet, Haiku isn't even capable of self-hosting: building itself with itself and the developer toolchain. Once it gets to that point, that'll be a far more productive time, and that's likely the minimum point where someone sticks a fork into the road and takes it, pronouncing, "We have an alpha release!" which is not to say an alpha version will be officially announced at that time as being released, but rather, that's the minimum requirement for calling it "alpha" in practical terms.

A big reason why there's currently no ISO available as part of the standard process that people can install with is that right now, Haiku is in a weird that that it looks more capable than it really is, for all but testers and developers working on Haiku itself. That, and that requires developer resources to do that task, too. It's making great strides, but it isn't there yet. And when someone says "Ubuntu is in alpha stage!" it's important to keep in mind one very important thing: the Linux kernel is more complete at any single time in an alpha version release than the Haiku kernel is now, as well as the user space libraries also being more complete. Thus, it isn't fair to compare Haiku at pre-alpha and not having a Live CD or an ISO that's easy to install with some linux distro, or any other OS that's already more mature in implementation. Sat, 27 Oct 2007 07:20:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (JonathanBThompson) Comments http://osnews.com/thread?281237 http://osnews.com/thread?281237 Yes, you're right.
I didn't pay attention to the fact that the Gobe Productive source code was meant and not the BeOS one.
Sorry for this.

Not Gobe "killed" Zeta, it was Access (again my fault to mix things up).
And Access did nothing afterwards.
They didn't sue Bernd Korz and they didn't sue Magnussoft.
The consequence is, provided that there was a violation of intellectual property when Zeta was sold by Yellowtab and (later by) Magnussoft, that the responsible persons and companies will not be punished.

The Gobe case is discussed in detail between Bernd Korz and the lawyer of Magnussoft at www.beusergroup.de:
http://www.beusergroup.de/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopi...
Bernd Korz says here in his email about the Zeta 1.21 and 1.5 era:
Beginning of quotation:
"Resume:
Licence Fees to yT: No
Licence Fees to Gobe: No
Licence Fees to Elmstreetsoft: No
Licence Fees to JABA developers: No
Licence Fees to Beezer developers: No"
End of quotation.
Since the reading of this email "battle" it is rather clear what happened to Gobe, especially after reading the email from Gobe Corporation in Bernd Korz's first posting (Bernd Korz is "yellowzeta").
Please keep in mind that - although this postings are "real" as you can see from the above-mentioned website - it is impossible to say what the truth is. So it is a pity that this whole case has not been submitted to a court.Edited 2007-10-27 14:41 Sat, 27 Oct 2007 14:40:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (nelvana2005) Comments http://osnews.com/thread?281238 http://osnews.com/thread?281238 I think Madcrow might gave been talking about GOBE, not BeOS. Sat, 27 Oct 2007 14:41:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (wowtip) Comments http://osnews.com/thread?281265 http://osnews.com/thread?281265 If Haiku really wants to attract _new_ users it's vitally important that a modern and well functioning office suite like Gnome Office (particularly Abiword) works. Ok, compatability with these ancient apps might be necessary for a start. But please - the strength of BeOS was always that it came without the burden of a long history. "Backwards compatability" is everything Windows and OS X are about :-(((((((((((( Sat, 27 Oct 2007 18:48:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (deb2006) Comments http://osnews.com/thread?281272 http://osnews.com/thread?281272 And I found gobe's much trumpeted "features" quite ordinary and already much superseded by competing office software. It was almost a rip-off for me.

Aren't we talking about software from...oh almost seven years ago now? Perhaps other products made by competitors had features added due to their desirability and demand by customers? Did you ever consider it might have something to do with that? Just a thought....

--bornagainpenguin Sat, 27 Oct 2007 20:18:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (bornagainenguin) Comments http://osnews.com/thread?281273 http://osnews.com/thread?281273 Fact is, it is their right to do so, because they own the BeOS/Dano source code.

I think the OP was referring to Gobe Productive source code, not BeOS...

Edit: Oh, i see that was already mentioned a couple times (didn't show as a reply to the comment it was in response to...)

But still, Access didn't kill Zeta - Zeta pretty much killed itself, and Access just put the last nail in the coffin... dead horse, not worth beating now.Edited 2007-10-27 20:41 Sat, 27 Oct 2007 20:36:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (umccullough) Comments http://osnews.com/thread?281303 http://osnews.com/thread?281303 But still, Access didn't kill Zeta - Zeta pretty much killed itself, and Access just put the last nail in the coffin... dead horse, not worth beating now.

eh... but what else are we gonna do on a Saturday night?

[beats dead horse] ;P

--bornagainpenguin Sat, 27 Oct 2007 23:57:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (bornagainenguin) Comments http://osnews.com/thread?281373 http://osnews.com/thread?281373 I think that the owner of the productive source code are GOBE inc. (no I don't have proof of that).

I e-mailed GOBE and they are following the progress of Haiku (I don't know how close) but if haiku gets big as BeOS or bigger and the owner of the code and program and wants to make some money (don't know that many company that don't want to make money) they would make at least a resell of Productive 2.1 compiled with gcc 2.95 but a gcc 4.x version would be preferred. Sun, 28 Oct 2007 07:38:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (ModeenF) Comments http://osnews.com/thread?281451 http://osnews.com/thread?281451 I'm glad to hear about Gobe Productive working in Haiku, but does that extend to the GCC 4.x builds or not?

Now, on another topic...

What is this "Atari" stuff doing in Haiku? Is mmu_man trying to make it possible to build Haiku on an Atari ST? Or is he simply creating an Atari FileSystem, so you can read/write in Atari ST's File Format? Everyone knows, the Atari ST format is more or less just DOS FAT... so this doesn't make such sense.

This seems, at first glance, to be one of the most pointless/wasteful of efforts in the Haiku project. He claims he's doing it just for the "L33t factor". But how does that truly further the Haiku project in any productive way? If it doesn't help Haiku obtain Alpha status any sooner, isn't it just filling up the source tree with useless fluff (bloat)?

BTW, When you build Haiku from within BeOS R5, are you forced to use GCC 2.95.x or is there a way you can use GCC 4.x? Or is GCC 4.x only available from withn Linux or other? How many other OS platforms can you build Haiku from?

OK, I'm, outta here... Sun, 28 Oct 2007 19:53:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Luposian) Comments http://osnews.com/thread?281468 http://osnews.com/thread?281468 looks like it's handling of a Atari partion (like make, read, write), don't really know but then it's up to him.

Not every one can make those changes that need to be done until alpha release are ready.

Haiku can be built with gcc4.x from linux, think there are a howto on Haiku-OS.org.

To run BeOS apps on Haiku, Haiku must be built with gcc 2.95.x Sun, 28 Oct 2007 21:17:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (ModeenF) Comments http://osnews.com/thread?281496 http://osnews.com/thread?281496 im so happy to see this. I've been silently tracking this Os since its birth. Sun, 28 Oct 2007 23:31:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (scuro_falcao) Comments http://osnews.com/thread?281535 http://osnews.com/thread?281535 "If it doesn't help Haiku obtain Alpha status any sooner, isn't it just filling up the source tree with useless fluff (bloat)?"

Well, first of all:
Porting to a new architecture usually HELPS improving the source code, since there has to be a better separation of the arch dependent and arch indepentent parts of the code.

And then:
Since mmu_man isn't an employee of Haiku, Inc., he is free to spend his free time in doing whatever he wants.
Yes, maybe he could work on helping Haiku obtain alpha status, but maybe he gets more fun (shock!) this way ? Mon, 29 Oct 2007 09:14:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Jack Burton) Comments http://osnews.com/thread?281539 http://osnews.com/thread?281539 Is there a noticable increase in performance when Haiku is built with gcc4.x?
Or isn't this visible since you can't run apps?

Is gcc4 necessary for using modern technologies like SSE3?

Great progress by the way! Finally Haiku is getting more mature. Still remember watching the progress bars on the old site frequently... It seemed like the different parts were remained in the planning fase forever. But now there's an almost usable system :-P Mon, 29 Oct 2007 10:00:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (testadura) Comments http://osnews.com/thread?281555 http://osnews.com/thread?281555 While I am glad to hear about this, I am also not too surprised.

Didn't Gobe end up creating a BeOS inspired cross platform framework that essentially freed them from realling being a true BeOS app but just lookimg & feeling like one. The Windows version looks & feels somewhat similar and there was also a Linux version planned IIRC. So that really means the mostly portable framework ran on Haiku (as well as BeOS, Windows ..) and the BeOS version was really a good citizen in not straying too far from UI expectations.

I also liked using Gobe but I never trusted it to complete many tasks with out crashing, somewhat limiting its usefullness. I'd probably be more interested to see Abiword come back too. Mon, 29 Oct 2007 12:41:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (transputer_guy) Comments