OSNews:

OSNews: http://www.osnews.com/story/18888/Apple_Releases_Darwin_9_Source_Code Exploring the Future of Computing en-us Copyright 2001-2009, David Adams adam+nospam@osnews.com Thu, 09 Jul 2009 22:30:00 GMT http://www.osnews.com/images/osnews.gif OSNews.com http://www.osnews.com Sounds cool to me! http://osnews.com/thread?283215 http://osnews.com/thread?283215 I'm downloading XNU now.. It appears that they have kept the i386 code in there.... I guess its time to build it....Edited 2007-11-06 22:19 Tue, 06 Nov 2007 22:16:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (neozeed) Comments Full Hardware-Support + Freedom? http://osnews.com/thread?283221 http://osnews.com/thread?283221 So ist it possible to have the Hardware of say, a MacBook, fully supported, while not giving up any of the 4 freedoms which should come with software, by using Darwin+GNU+Xorg+Gnome/KDE/Whatever?

And by full hardware-support I mean EVERYTHING more or less out of the box. Hotkeys, webcam, suspending, you name it.

Has anyone experiences with that or are there tutorials how to achieve this on the web? Tue, 06 Nov 2007 22:45:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Roots) Comments An interesting statistic... http://osnews.com/thread?283223 http://osnews.com/thread?283223 Here's an interesting statistic, the /bsd folder of the XNU kernel tar ball accounts for 49.2% of the untarred size on disk.

I'm actually surprised that so much of the source is C++...Edited 2007-11-06 22:57 Tue, 06 Nov 2007 22:54:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (baadger) Comments No http://osnews.com/thread?283227 http://osnews.com/thread?283227 There are usually some closed-source drivers, not to mention Don't Steal Mac OS X.kext. Tue, 06 Nov 2007 23:29:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Wes Felter) Comments RE: Full Hardware-Support + Freedom? http://osnews.com/thread?283230 http://osnews.com/thread?283230 What you're asking really isn't any different to Windows PC/Laptop buyers who install Linux of their system as, at the end of the day, Mac hardware is just PC hardware. Tue, 06 Nov 2007 23:40:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Laurence) Comments RE: Full Hardware-Support + Freedom? http://osnews.com/thread?283232 http://osnews.com/thread?283232 "So ist it possible to have the Hardware of say, a MacBook, fully supported, while not giving up any of the 4 freedoms which should come with software, by using Darwin+GNU+Xorg+Gnome/KDE/Whatever?"

No because The new licensing does not permit that.

http://apple.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=06/11/13/1120215

Look at the new APSL Rules where your license to their source can be revoked at any time. Tue, 06 Nov 2007 23:44:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (cyclops) Comments Well done apple http://osnews.com/thread?283234 http://osnews.com/thread?283234 Lets give credit where it is due. Leopard is just out and already they have released the darwin

Well done apple! Tue, 06 Nov 2007 23:46:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Adurbe) Comments what does this mean? http://osnews.com/thread?283238 http://osnews.com/thread?283238 I am not sure what this means? Can someone take the source and do the same thing that CentOS did with RH?

Before you apple guys get defensive I am just asking. Wed, 07 Nov 2007 00:14:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Damind) Comments RE: what does this mean? http://osnews.com/thread?283240 http://osnews.com/thread?283240

I am not sure what this means? Can someone take the source and do the same thing that CentOS did with RH?

Simply put, no.

Darwin != Mac OS X, rather it's the kernel and much of the base, system level userland. But you won't find things like the Finder or the Dock, or even the windowing system in the source code.

It's more like a basic BSD distribution, but without as large of a ports directory. Wed, 07 Nov 2007 00:22:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (whartung) Comments RE[2]: what does this mean? http://osnews.com/thread?283244 http://osnews.com/thread?283244 I use Mac OS X all the time as well as several Unixes and Darwin by itself isn't really that useful to an end user.

And there is DarwinPorts for it, if want ported software. Wed, 07 Nov 2007 00:43:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (zizban) Comments RE: what does this mean? http://osnews.com/thread?283245 http://osnews.com/thread?283245 Separate anything that is the OS (BSD) and what is the GUI (Apple).

Anything that is BSD is included. Anything that is Mac GUI and things that support that is not. Wed, 07 Nov 2007 00:44:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Sabon) Comments RE[2]: Full Hardware-Support + Freedom? http://osnews.com/thread?283246 http://osnews.com/thread?283246 Looks similar to the Microsoft Reference License to me... Wed, 07 Nov 2007 00:45:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Almafeta) Comments RE: Full Hardware-Support + Freedom? http://osnews.com/thread?283253 http://osnews.com/thread?283253 i tried doing that with a g4 powerbook and darwin 8. all i can say is good luck! a bunch of drivers that ship with darwin are binary only, such as the broadcom ones. on top of that there are no apps in userland to configure wireless. never got x to work either. i'm not even sure if they include suspend support in darwin. maybe i should try again. Wed, 07 Nov 2007 01:27:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (broken_symlink) Comments RE[3]: Full Hardware-Support + Freedom? http://osnews.com/thread?283255 http://osnews.com/thread?283255 "Looks similar to the Microsoft Reference License to me..."

I hadn't thought of the motivations behind mega-corporations having their own licenses, I wouldn't say it was to necessarily say it was for subterfuge. The point was only in direct relevance to the four freedoms mentioned, Apples license *was* a free software license and an OSI approved license...and then they changed the license, but for clarification from the FSF on Apple Public Source License 2.0. http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/apsl.html.

I don't really care. I was just clarifying. Wed, 07 Nov 2007 01:36:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (cyclops) Comments RE: what does this mean? http://osnews.com/thread?283268 http://osnews.com/thread?283268 There was an OpenDarwin initiative going on awhile back, but they closed up shop because of a lack of enthusiasm, and not really wanting to be a host for Free OSX projects. The only real reason Darwin is good to have open is for debugging and educational purposes, and of course for people to write drivers for those of us who go the Hackintosh way... Wed, 07 Nov 2007 03:03:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (google_ninja) Comments A good step, but what a verbose license! http://osnews.com/thread?283276 http://osnews.com/thread?283276 This is a good move by Apple, but sheesh, the license is verbose!

Given that much of the code comes from FreeBSD anyway, would it have been difficult for them to have released this code under a BSD license? I wouldn't have thought that would be much of a "risk" to them, but I may be wrong.... :-)

Anyone else think the license is too long, and a BSD license should have been used? Wed, 07 Nov 2007 05:36:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (obsidian) Comments RE[2]: what does this mean? http://osnews.com/thread?283282 http://osnews.com/thread?283282 is it not also a good thing for those that use APE and for companies like intech that do the hi-cap drivers for large capacity drives on older G4s?

I ask this out of curiosity... is this true kernel access rather than just the sdk? or is it less complete than that. Wed, 07 Nov 2007 06:59:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Nossie) Comments RE: A good step, but what a verbose license! http://osnews.com/thread?283283 http://osnews.com/thread?283283 I'd love for someone on the FreeBSD team to quantify how much work they have contributed to Darwin before claiming they have for Darwin 9. Wed, 07 Nov 2007 07:21:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (tyrione) Comments Why does it matter? http://osnews.com/thread?283285 http://osnews.com/thread?283285 Don't really understand why this matters one way or the other. You release the updated source to something which is not being used in previous versions because its essentially unusable. So what?

Maybe it allows Cupertino to more plausibly offer the party line that in some way OSX is more open than Windows? Not that it is, its just differently but equally closed. That is one of the party lines one comes across. Is that it, is it just a marketing thing?

I was hoping to discover from the comments what we can use this for, but the answer still seems to be nothing. Wed, 07 Nov 2007 07:49:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (alcibiades) Comments Hackintosh http://osnews.com/thread?283287 http://osnews.com/thread?283287 Hmm and now they can start to write drivers for Leopard running on Hackintosh... Wed, 07 Nov 2007 08:11:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Brmbolec) Comments RE: Why does it matter? http://osnews.com/thread?283288 http://osnews.com/thread?283288 The Darwin source code is entirely usable (it's not crippled in any way), it just doesn't get a lot of use. Does the lack of users make the code less open? APSL 2.0 is an OSI-certified open source license. You can download the code, modify it, distribute it, include it in your own programs, etc. The Windows source code is only available under a Reference license, to businesses or academic institutions who pay for the privilege. They are not "equally closed" by any stretch of the imagination. Wed, 07 Nov 2007 08:20:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (rayiner) Comments RE[3]: Full Hardware-Support + Freedom? http://osnews.com/thread?283290 http://osnews.com/thread?283290 "The Apple Public Source License (APSL) version 2.0 qualifies as a free software license."

http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/apsl.html Wed, 07 Nov 2007 09:05:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (KugelKurt) Comments RE[2]: A good step, but what a verbose license! http://osnews.com/thread?283292 http://osnews.com/thread?283292 "I'd love for someone on the FreeBSD team to quantify how much work they have contributed to Darwin before claiming they have for Darwin 9."

sed s/FreeBSD/Darwin/g

Edited 2007-11-07 09:31 Wed, 07 Nov 2007 09:31:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (vermaden) Comments RE[2]: A good step, but what a verbose license! http://osnews.com/thread?283322 http://osnews.com/thread?283322

I'd love for someone on the FreeBSD team to quantify how much work they have contributed to Darwin before claiming they have for Darwin 9.

What are you blathering on about - Apple claims that they use code from FreeBSD - in other words, Apple has pulled code off the FreeBSD, not FreeBSD submitting code to Darwin.

Its a know fact that XNU uses BSD code in there, and it has been updated over the years using the latest FreeBSD code - and Apple submit the changes back, NetBSD incorporating a lot of the msdosfs improvements - for example. Wed, 07 Nov 2007 12:39:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (kaiwai) Comments great http://osnews.com/thread?283340 http://osnews.com/thread?283340 I think this was a good step.

The developers can optimize the drivers for the kernel in a better way, because now they can look into the source code and match the drivers really smooth to the kernel.

Also it offers the possibility that bugs could be found in the code because now a lot of more eyes are looking at it.

In my eyes a opertunity for a higher quality for apples custormers. Wed, 07 Nov 2007 13:43:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (SK8T) Comments 4.1 MB http://osnews.com/thread?283486 http://osnews.com/thread?283486 If you re-compile it without debug enabled it drops down to 4.1MB (from approx. 8MB or so). Perhaps it's purely subjective, but each time I've booted with this stripped down kernel after building it (the last 4 kernels or so from Apple), the system seems more responsive. Thu, 08 Nov 2007 00:17:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (karudzo) Comments RE[2]: what does this mean? http://osnews.com/thread?283493 http://osnews.com/thread?283493 But on the other hand, try to run the eyecand without it *g* Thu, 08 Nov 2007 00:36:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Oliver) Comments RE[3]: A good step, but what a verbose license! http://osnews.com/thread?283494 http://osnews.com/thread?283494 In fact Steve is using BSD as base since BSD4.4 in NextStep and there is even some NetBSD code in it. Sometimes Apple is even commiting some code to FreeBSD (some Apple developers have got commit right in FreeBSD), some weeks ago for example (MAC). Nothing unusual, but it doesn't fit to the usual theories about the evil scheme of these big companies ;-) Thu, 08 Nov 2007 00:41:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Oliver) Comments RE: Well done apple http://osnews.com/thread?283575 http://osnews.com/thread?283575 As somebody already mentioned "Darwin is not really that useful to any of the end users" ... so what does that mean ... call me a cynic but apple simply uses the opensource community to develop their product with giving back as little as possible. Thu, 08 Nov 2007 13:23:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (searly) Comments What are the major changes? http://osnews.com/thread?283576 http://osnews.com/thread?283576 Any high level summary apart of component version lists? Thu, 08 Nov 2007 13:23:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (pica) Comments RE[2]: Well done apple http://osnews.com/thread?283652 http://osnews.com/thread?283652 Darwin is a perfectly capable OS in its own right. Simply because it is not as POPULAR as linux nor other BSD flavors does not detract from that

If I had the time (or ability!) I could create a system based on it just as good as any linux distro or OSX itself Thu, 08 Nov 2007 19:14:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Adurbe) Comments RE[3]: Well done apple http://osnews.com/thread?283817 http://osnews.com/thread?283817 And in which it would be '''better''' than average Linux distribution or PC-BSD? Fri, 09 Nov 2007 12:48:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Blackwizard) Comments