OSNews: http://www.osnews.com/story/18895/Apple_Seeds_Mac_OS_X_10_5_1_9B13_to_Developers Exploring the Future of Computing en-us Copyright 2001-2013, David Adams adam+nospam@osnews.com Thu, 23 May 2013 00:28:55 GMT http://www.osnews.com/images/osnews.gif OSNews.com http://www.osnews.com Darn Apple Seeds http://www.osnews.com/thread?283461 http://www.osnews.com/thread?283461 Darn Apple seeds all over the place.

Sorry. Could not resist.Edited 2007-11-07 22:51 Wed, 07 Nov 2007 22:51:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (mind!dagger) Comments So, 10.5 was a flop? http://www.osnews.com/thread?283462 http://www.osnews.com/thread?283462 If you call 10.5.1 a Service Pack, does that mean that 10.5 was a flop? With all the bugs already found, the bad firewall, moving files that delete your data, ....

Almost as good as Vista... Wed, 07 Nov 2007 22:54:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (truckweb) Comments RE: So, 10.5 was a flop? http://www.osnews.com/thread?283466 http://www.osnews.com/thread?283466 since you're an idiot (microsoft user that only understand yearly service packs, i'll explain it).... apple releasing an update is norma and they usually release an update every month or two to add small functionality and fixes.

these updates are free, small and arent anywhere near a 'service pack' that takes 1-2 years for MS to release. Wed, 07 Nov 2007 23:07:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (mckill) Comments RE[2]: So, 10.5 was a flop? http://www.osnews.com/thread?283467 http://www.osnews.com/thread?283467 Anyone who has followed MacOS X releases expects a .1 release within a 30 - 60 day window after the .0 release.

This doesn't mean Leopard is a flop. It means that Apple released Leopard on time, without showstopping bugs and continued work on the OS past the time they committed it to Gold Master status.

Long gone is the day when a program comes out and remains unchanged/unpatched after it's release. Wed, 07 Nov 2007 23:11:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Mage66) Comments RE[2]: So, 10.5 was a flop? http://www.osnews.com/thread?283468 http://www.osnews.com/thread?283468 It's pretty clear he was trolling. I bet Microsoft would be happy to have a RTM that was as bug free as 10.5.

Anyway, where's 10.4.11? I won't be moving to 10.5 until complaints, valid or otherwise, are minimal. Wed, 07 Nov 2007 23:11:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (mbot) Comments RE[2]: So, 10.5 was a flop? http://www.osnews.com/thread?283469 http://www.osnews.com/thread?283469
since you're an idiot (microsoft user that only understand yearly service packs, i'll explain it)....


Translation:
http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2002/07/12 Wed, 07 Nov 2007 23:14:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (StephenBeDoper) Comments RE: So, 10.5 was a flop? http://www.osnews.com/thread?283498 http://www.osnews.com/thread?283498 Don't really know what we're talking about, do we now? Thu, 08 Nov 2007 01:24:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (senornoodle) Comments RE[3]: So, 10.5 was a flop? http://www.osnews.com/thread?283499 http://www.osnews.com/thread?283499 why yes that's completely applicable and not just 'oh those elitist mac users' without any real connection to what was said

ps penny arcade isn't funny Thu, 08 Nov 2007 01:26:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (senornoodle) Comments RE[3]: So, 10.5 was a flop? http://www.osnews.com/thread?283505 http://www.osnews.com/thread?283505 Complaints will continue till 10.6.... And so forth.

Being an all-round user (Mac, Windows, Linux), I think Leopard is a natural progression from Tiger.

Make the base system more robust and complete, add some new frameworks for developers to play with, some flashy GUI changes, and - voila - a new OS.

That being said, I think Leopard is a great step forward, laying the foundations for future revisions.Edited 2007-11-08 02:28 Thu, 08 Nov 2007 02:18:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (cm49) Comments RE[4]: So, 10.5 was a flop? http://www.osnews.com/thread?283518 http://www.osnews.com/thread?283518 It's interesting to note that of all the talk about Leopard, nobody points out that it comes a lot closer to "bringing teh snappy" than any previous release of OS X. The UI seems a lot faster than Tiger on my MacBook. Spotlight is way faster, and the Spotlight-powered search entries in the Finder are very usably fast, especially considering what they are. The Finder itself feels a lot more responsive than previous versions. And Quicklook is extremely snappy, even with large documents.

That said, Leopard is definitely a .0 release. I haven't encountered any instability or anything in more than a week of heavy use, but I have encountered "weird" behavior more than once. Eg: after 8 days of continuous running (since the upgrade), I had to reboot the machine because an FTP share wouldn't eject. Thu, 08 Nov 2007 03:59:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (rayiner) Comments RE[3]: So, 10.5 was a flop? http://www.osnews.com/thread?283519 http://www.osnews.com/thread?283519 So, a post calling someone an idiot gets modded up to 5? Very nice... ;)

Oh, And I use BSDs, Linux, Solaris and Windows. Point is, some platform-specific users easily accuse other people of being idiot and using {other_os_here) whenever their OS of choice was criticized. Thu, 08 Nov 2007 04:10:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (qroon) Comments RE[5]: So, 10.5 was a flop? http://www.osnews.com/thread?283521 http://www.osnews.com/thread?283521 I was actually thinking this the other day. I think Leopard is the best OS I've used since BeOS. It feels to me like an amazing fusion of BeOS and BSD, and I love it. Thu, 08 Nov 2007 04:19:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (C_Forq) Comments RE: So, 10.5 was a flop? http://www.osnews.com/thread?283524 http://www.osnews.com/thread?283524 Fixes are good no matter what OS.

Bugs are probably there in all new software, atleast so complex ones as a whole operating system.

Rushed out software just to meet expected shipping dates however even thought it puts the user at risk sucks, both from Apple and Microsoft. Thu, 08 Nov 2007 04:32:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (aliquis) Comments RE[2]: So, 10.5 was a flop? http://www.osnews.com/thread?283526 http://www.osnews.com/thread?283526 How long is a particular version supported for? Sorry if this is off topic, but I'm thing of moving to a mac.

Btw, anyone here recommend a friendly mac forum? Thu, 08 Nov 2007 04:36:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (camo) Comments RE[3]: So, 10.5 was a flop? http://www.osnews.com/thread?283533 http://www.osnews.com/thread?283533 In terms of code changes, not that long (not as long as Windows). Monthly bug-fix releases stop shortly after the new release (eg: 10.4.11 will be the last Tiger build likely), and security fixes stop around the release after that (eg: security updates to Jaguar stopped soon before the Tiger release). Software support varies somewhat. Most frequently-released free programs tend to support only the latest couple of releases --- commercial software usually supports further back.

As for forums, macnn.com is a good Mac forum, as is the Machintosh Achaia on ArsTechnica.Edited 2007-11-08 05:16 Thu, 08 Nov 2007 05:15:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (rayiner) Comments RE[3]: So, 10.5 was a flop? http://www.osnews.com/thread?283552 http://www.osnews.com/thread?283552 I bought Panther and Tiger on the day they were released. Actually, thats a lie. I pre-ordered them a few weeks before, in order to get the on the day they were released. Yes, I'm one of those crazy early adopters.

However, Leopard is the first release of OS X where I'm happy to wait out. Not because Leopard is bad or anything. From what I've read, it is much more stable than Tiger was at release. I'm waiting because Tiger is doing all that I need it to do and it's rock solid. Why fix something that ain't broke (yet)?

Will probably get it when 10.5.3 or 10.5.4 hits the shelf. Thu, 08 Nov 2007 07:54:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (evangs) Comments RE[3]: So, 10.5 was a flop? http://www.osnews.com/thread?283553 http://www.osnews.com/thread?283553 Heh, while that is a popular caricature of Mac users, I fail to see how it applies here in this instance. Thu, 08 Nov 2007 07:56:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (evangs) Comments Leopard http://www.osnews.com/thread?283558 http://www.osnews.com/thread?283558 I got Leopard the day it was released, it fast and stable and the only bug i have yet encounter is the spaces one where is moves you to another screen for no reason. Thu, 08 Nov 2007 09:04:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (REM2000) Comments RE[3]: So, 10.5 was a flop? http://www.osnews.com/thread?283563 http://www.osnews.com/thread?283563 No, but I'm sure you'll find plenty of elitist ones. Thu, 08 Nov 2007 09:57:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (PJBonoVox) Comments RE[4]: So, 10.5 was a flop? http://www.osnews.com/thread?283594 http://www.osnews.com/thread?283594 This is why I really don't like that Apple had their rant about "All versions $129, haha look at windows license mess". I've had my windows XP fully upgraded for five? years. The big thing in Vista (.net etc) is available, although with a somewhat crippled rendering engine. And I can still run a win32 program from over a decade ago.

If they feel the need to mock windows, there are other areas that actually are motivated to mock. Thu, 08 Nov 2007 15:38:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (wanker90210) Comments RE: Leopard http://www.osnews.com/thread?283609 http://www.osnews.com/thread?283609 For me too. Leopard runs perfectly stable and the only bug I've encountered is also with spaces; if you open an applicaton that takes a few seconds to load and then "zoom out" to see all desktops the new applications is just put over everything in full size. Not a big deal but still. Though I haven't seen the bug your're mentioning. Are you sure you don't hit the key combo to switch desktop by misstake?

At least we don't have to wait over a year for "SP1". ;) Thu, 08 Nov 2007 17:04:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (NxStY) Comments RE[4]: So, 10.5 was a flop? http://www.osnews.com/thread?283610 http://www.osnews.com/thread?283610 The fact that this 'idiot' went out of his way to provoke a flame war by saying something that is patently false. Not just an opinion, but a blatantly false statement - notice he hasn't even ATTEMPTED to participate in the discussion? he is yet another fly-through forum spammer hoping to cause a racus and flame feast.

Yes, Leopard has issues, just like Windows Vista, but unlike Windows Vista, we aren't waiting months for updates, those who have complained, a good portion later admit they've tweaked their OS to buggery - thus bringing it upon themselves. The issue isn't that we as Apple uses don't like criticism of our OS of choice, but when people make groundless accusations or worse, be a forum spammer hoping to stir up trouble.Edited 2007-11-08 17:06 Thu, 08 Nov 2007 17:05:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (kaiwai) Comments RE[5]: So, 10.5 was a flop? http://www.osnews.com/thread?283615 http://www.osnews.com/thread?283615 This is why I really don't like that Apple had their rant about "All versions $129, haha look at windows license mess"

'Rant'? it was a light-hearted jibe at most and a valid one at that. Thu, 08 Nov 2007 17:31:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Chicken Blood) Comments RE[5]: So, 10.5 was a flop? http://www.osnews.com/thread?283622 http://www.osnews.com/thread?283622 The "rant" makes more sense if you consider what Jobs cares about: complexity, not cost. Keeping OS X up-to-date may very well have a higher cost in terms of $/feature than Windows, over the period of the last 5 years. But there is no denying that the licensing scheme is simple. On October 28, I went into the Apple Store, grabbed the box with the big "X" on it, and one of the clerks checked me out right on the spot. Buying Vista isn't so simple. Indeed, without actually looking it up on the internets, I wouldn't even know which version to buy. Thu, 08 Nov 2007 18:11:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (rayiner) Comments RE[4]: So, 10.5 was a flop? http://www.osnews.com/thread?283706 http://www.osnews.com/thread?283706
why yes that's completely applicable and not just 'oh those elitist mac users' without any real connection to what was said


Seeing as you apparently have nothing to contribute beyond Jr. High-level sarcasm, I'll make it extraordinarily easy for you: offer something resembling a convincing argument that the quoted text I replied to was *anything* other than painfully-obvious affected superiority, and I'll eat a copy of Leopard (with your choice of garnish).

ps penny arcade isn't funny


There's an insightful and well thought-out critique. Let me guess - somethingawful is a little bit more your speed? Thu, 08 Nov 2007 21:24:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (StephenBeDoper) Comments RE[3]: So, 10.5 was a flop? http://www.osnews.com/thread?283775 http://www.osnews.com/thread?283775 Sorry, is that a joke? Is it supposed to be funny? Does it have anything to do with this discussion?

The Mac vs PC ads were lame but come on penny-arcade, try to make a joke that is at least remotely witty and funny. Then again, it's penny-arcade. Sharp (or even dull) wit isn't exactly their strong area. Fri, 09 Nov 2007 04:32:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Soulbender) Comments RE[4]: So, 10.5 was a flop? http://www.osnews.com/thread?283827 http://www.osnews.com/thread?283827
Sorry, is that a joke? Is it supposed to be funny? Does it have anything to do with this discussion?


Funny, I don't see a similar post from you tsk-tsk'ing the poster I replied to. Forgive me if I don't act surprised, however.

Then again, it's penny-arcade. Sharp (or even dull) wit isn't exactly their strong area.


So you're the universal arbiter of what is or isn't wit? Or was there some actual *substantial* / qualified criticism you neglected to include? Because if not, I don't see any reason not to simply assume it's just the usual OSNews practice of confusing easily-bruised egos with critical opinions. Fri, 09 Nov 2007 15:07:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (StephenBeDoper) Comments RE[4]: So, 10.5 was a flop? http://www.osnews.com/thread?283872 http://www.osnews.com/thread?283872 Thats heaps for that rayiner! Gratefull. Sat, 10 Nov 2007 02:24:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (camo) Comments RE[4]: So, 10.5 was a flop? http://www.osnews.com/thread?283876 http://www.osnews.com/thread?283876
Sorry, is that a joke? Is it supposed to be funny? Does it have anything to do with this discussion?


Well, I'm a Mac user and I can tell you that I found it funny - go into any Mac shop and you're almost certain to trip over a person like that. Yes, there are also people like that in the Windows world - who claim their 'elite' status on how many short cut keys they know off by heart, or how fast they can move their cursor to accomplish a task - never mind the fact they don't know a damn thing about computers or IT in general.

The Mac vs PC ads were lame but come on penny-arcade, try to make a joke that is at least remotely witty and funny. Then again, it's penny-arcade. Sharp (or even dull) wit isn't exactly their strong area.


It was a piss take on the PC vs. Mac rivalry; you sound like the type of people who sit around monitoring late night programming to compile a list of complaints for the FCC. Get over it and stop taking life so seriously.Edited 2007-11-10 03:35 Sat, 10 Nov 2007 03:33:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (kaiwai) Comments Best to wait... http://www.osnews.com/thread?283946 http://www.osnews.com/thread?283946 I've found it best to wait for about two months (or so) prior to updating. This gives Apple plenty of time to squish bugs. Sat, 10 Nov 2007 22:27:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (AlienBenefactor) Comments New Mac user http://www.osnews.com/thread?283950 http://www.osnews.com/thread?283950 I have been a Windows user since Windows 3.1. I have worked in a corporate IT department for seven years, administrating and supporting Windows. I have often defended Microsoft (as well as cursed them). I personally just never became friends with Vista (no bashing, just my personal opinion).

So I got my first Mac three days ago (MacBook). Leopard is by no means bug free. And there are certainly also things in Mac OS X that I find counterintuitive and cumbersome. But in general I find it a very stable and productive system. I would say that it is a lot more stable and polished than any x.0 version of a Microsoft OS I have ever encountered. I can only imagine what it will be like in a few months when the worst bugs have been ironed out.

From a functionality point of view, there is not too much difference between Mac OS X and Vista, (that being said, I am crazy about spaces). But when I look at the intangibles, such as ease of use and productivity I am amazed so far - I am really impressed.

So I certainly haven't regretted my purchase so far.

(as a final note I should mention, that I think I owe it to the open standards and open source crowds to make the switch so easy) Sat, 10 Nov 2007 22:46:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Larz) Comments Time Machine update? http://www.osnews.com/thread?284034 http://www.osnews.com/thread?284034 Does this release resolve the issue with Leopard's Time Machine not working with networked external hard drives over WIFI? Time Machine was supposed to work with networked hard drives when released but unfortunately does not even when used with Apple's Airport Extreme Base Station (AEBS). Sun, 11 Nov 2007 18:31:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Dark_Knight) Comments