OSNews:

OSNews: http://www.osnews.com/story/18906/MIT_Releases_Source_of_MULTICS Exploring the Future of Computing en-us Copyright 2001-2009, David Adams adam+nospam@osnews.com Wed, 25 Nov 2009 10:39:43 GMT http://www.osnews.com/images/osnews.gif OSNews.com http://www.osnews.com Awesome http://osnews.com/thread?284090 http://osnews.com/thread?284090 I hope this will entice more companies to release the source code to their EOL'd products! In practical terms this isnt of much use of course, however it will be fun for OS hobbyists. Mon, 12 Nov 2007 17:07:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (maxx_730) Comments Hehe! http://osnews.com/thread?284091 http://osnews.com/thread?284091 My comp sci professors are going to flip, I know -- we've had to study it before. (EDIT: Especially the two professors who still know PL/1.)

They have a license (MIT-style, natch), but I think it's best to consider it shared source, not open source, as a curtosy for donating this for history.

I wonder how long it'll be before we can run this on an emulator of some sort...?Edited 2007-11-12 17:36 UTC Mon, 12 Nov 2007 17:35:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Almafeta) Comments Longtime since the last time... http://osnews.com/thread?284093 http://osnews.com/thread?284093 Since the last time I read "MULTICS" written somewhere. It was in a book during my undergrad formation at the beginning of the 90's.

Nice move anyways, it will keep alive the memory of one of the grand daddies of the exiting OS Mon, 12 Nov 2007 17:43:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (SamAskani) Comments The next step http://osnews.com/thread?284094 http://osnews.com/thread?284094 Can it be long before some IP firm sues MIT for infringing their 1983 patent on something? Mon, 12 Nov 2007 18:06:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (jack_perry) Comments Contest http://osnews.com/thread?284095 http://osnews.com/thread?284095 First one to port gets a tootsie pop. Mon, 12 Nov 2007 18:08:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (eosp) Comments RE: Contest http://osnews.com/thread?284096 http://osnews.com/thread?284096 'tootsie pop'

-- is that a euphemism for something? Really, I have no idea what that's supposed to mean Mon, 12 Nov 2007 18:16:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Coxy) Comments Very useful! http://osnews.com/thread?284097 http://osnews.com/thread?284097 Specially if more code from other dead projects get published, classified and cataloged. Why? Prior art source to block IP trolls!

Hope more and more comes along. Mon, 12 Nov 2007 18:19:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (acobar) Comments RE[2]: Contest http://osnews.com/thread?284098 http://osnews.com/thread?284098 Nope, it's a type of candy:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tootsie_Pop Mon, 12 Nov 2007 18:27:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (cilcoder) Comments RE: The next step http://osnews.com/thread?284099 http://osnews.com/thread?284099 We all know SCO invented MULTICS, and owns all patents on anything ever done with it. Mon, 12 Nov 2007 18:30:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (yakirz) Comments RE: Very useful! http://osnews.com/thread?284100 http://osnews.com/thread?284100 Good thinking right there.... Mon, 12 Nov 2007 18:32:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (CharAznable) Comments RMS worked on Multics http://osnews.com/thread?284101 http://osnews.com/thread?284101 Well RMS must have finally persuaded them to do it after over 30 years of trying. Mon, 12 Nov 2007 18:39:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (chemical_scum) Comments Side note http://osnews.com/thread?284103 http://osnews.com/thread?284103 As a side note I, by no mean, had the intention to dwarf the awesome achievements of Multics or its influence on the development of other OS, specially Unix, implying that it is good only to restrain IP trolls. It actually was, in many aspects, way ahead of its time. Some of things it pioneered or greatly improved (the understand of):
- hierarchal file system;
- ACL and MAC;
- system backup policies;
- rings and memory protection;
- symmetric multiprocessing;
- paging and memory management;
- dynamic linking;
- a full character set.

Truly awesome for such a that old system. Perhaps, because of its high target, and the low power of that time hardware, it could not experience a bigger success.

Anyway, it will live as much as the History of Operating System will, being a sound milestone on OS development. Mon, 12 Nov 2007 18:53:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (acobar) Comments RE: Awesome http://osnews.com/thread?284105 http://osnews.com/thread?284105

it will be fun for OS hobbyists.

Only those who already know, or are willing to learn, PL/1. That's probably a vanishingly small number of people. Mon, 12 Nov 2007 19:05:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Vanders) Comments Phew! http://osnews.com/thread?284106 http://osnews.com/thread?284106 When reading through the website it gets frighteningly clear how close a shave it was: but for the actions of one man, Multics would have been lost for ever. Mon, 12 Nov 2007 19:05:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (boudewijn) Comments RE: The next step http://osnews.com/thread?284107 http://osnews.com/thread?284107 ... This brings up interesting question. The patents would, of course, be long since dead, but can you sue for infringement on your work for *past* infringement, even if it wouldn't be infringement *now*?Edited 2007-11-12 19:27 UTC Mon, 12 Nov 2007 19:07:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Almafeta) Comments RE[2]: Awesome http://osnews.com/thread?284108 http://osnews.com/thread?284108

"it will be fun for OS hobbyists.

Only those who already know, or are willing to learn, PL/1. That's probably a vanishingly small number of people. "

To be fair, he did specify 'OS hobbyists.' What an OS hobbyist is willing to do, and will find fun, is not representative of what most people are willing to do...Edited 2007-11-12 19:12 UTC Mon, 12 Nov 2007 19:09:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Almafeta) Comments RE[2]: The next step http://osnews.com/thread?284109 http://osnews.com/thread?284109 Just hire lawyers like Civiletti, Miller, Sielbersky and soon you will have a case. You might not win but there is a possibillity. Those guys has pulled off the impossible before. Mon, 12 Nov 2007 19:22:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (judgen) Comments BRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!! http://osnews.com/thread?284110 http://osnews.com/thread?284110 It's nice for historical purposes, the same way looking at a centuries old earthenware jug is nice. After looking at it and the nice feelings have ebbed we put it back on the shelf and not look at it again for another 10 50 years and THEN we look at it again and it would be even nicer !

You can't run it on any hardware, uses a language many of us are unfamiliar - of what present day value it can contribute to computer research I am waiting for someone to tell me. It's something that you put on display in a museum, as a computer scientist, nerd and enthusiasts forgive me for not jumping up and down with joy and being overtly excited.

p.s oh and I forgot to thank M.I.T for their contribution to computer history. ( in all serious though :-) , i don't want to sound ungrateful.. Mon, 12 Nov 2007 19:30:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (antwarrior) Comments RE: BRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!! http://osnews.com/thread?284111 http://osnews.com/thread?284111 Without history mankind is next to nothing. Mon, 12 Nov 2007 19:38:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Oliver) Comments Hmm http://osnews.com/thread?284112 http://osnews.com/thread?284112 The source code is hard to navigate, It would have been nice if they produced a tar archive of everything.

What language was Multics written in? I'm guessing it's mostly assembly code for some old architecture.

It's still cool to have it out in the open... Mon, 12 Nov 2007 19:48:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (BSDfan) Comments RE: Hmm http://osnews.com/thread?284114 http://osnews.com/thread?284114 yeah, a tar ball would have been nice.

as for the language, it is written in PL/I. It is one of the first OS's written in a high level language, instead of assembly. Mon, 12 Nov 2007 19:58:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (dude) Comments Really useful code http://osnews.com/thread?284121 http://osnews.com/thread?284121 if you have GE or Honeywell mainframe from the 70's! Ha! Mon, 12 Nov 2007 20:23:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (AndrewZ) Comments RE[2]: Hmm http://osnews.com/thread?284122 http://osnews.com/thread?284122 I'm doing a mirror right now and prepare to do a tarball + torrent Mon, 12 Nov 2007 20:26:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (oxygene) Comments RE: Awesome http://osnews.com/thread?284127 http://osnews.com/thread?284127 It's a nice idea, but a lot of the time earlier products are used as the basis, at least in part, to build newer products.

I'm sure Microsoft wont release the Windows 3.11 source code because there's still bits of it in Vista. ;-) Mon, 12 Nov 2007 21:40:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (flanque) Comments Compiler http://osnews.com/thread?284130 http://osnews.com/thread?284130 IIRC, GCC can compile PL/1 code. Might give it a bash at the weekend, as long there's driver support for my Envy24 HT soundcard. Mon, 12 Nov 2007 21:47:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (gavin.mccord) Comments RE[2]: Awesome http://osnews.com/thread?284133 http://osnews.com/thread?284133 I'm sure Microsoft wont release the Windows 3.11 source code because there's still bits of it in Vista. ;-)

Forget that. There is still a crapload of DOS in Vista. Microsoft's operating systems just collect more cruft as they release newer versions. All because they are bent on supporting legacy software which, oddly enough, doesn't work very well most of the time. Mon, 12 Nov 2007 21:53:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (abraxas) Comments RE[3]: Awesome http://osnews.com/thread?284136 http://osnews.com/thread?284136 It will be a very, very rare person, OS hobbyist or not, who is willing to learn PL/1 just to be able to read the sources for MULTICS. Mon, 12 Nov 2007 22:02:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Vanders) Comments RE: RMS worked on Multics http://osnews.com/thread?284138 http://osnews.com/thread?284138 Well, then shouldn't that be GNU/Multics? :-P

Seriously, though, hot plug and hot *unplug* memory in the 60's was a way cool feature that we are just catching up to today. Mon, 12 Nov 2007 22:05:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (sbergman27) Comments RE[3]: Awesome http://osnews.com/thread?284139 http://osnews.com/thread?284139

Forget that. There is still a crapload of DOS in Vista. Microsoft's operating systems just collect more cruft as they release newer versions. All because they are bent on supporting legacy software which, oddly enough, doesn't work very well most of the time.

I can't tell if you're being sarcastic for humorous effect, or if you actually believe that... Mon, 12 Nov 2007 22:05:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Almafeta) Comments RE: Really useful code http://osnews.com/thread?284140 http://osnews.com/thread?284140 i wonder what those go for on ebay these days

Mon, 12 Nov 2007 22:08:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (hobgoblin) Comments RE: Side note http://osnews.com/thread?284144 http://osnews.com/thread?284144 No - its demise was caused by the direct and concerted effort of Honeywell (who had acquired GE's computer business) to kill it because it was seen as a competitor of its own GCOS (GECOS back in the GE days) mainframe OS. GE, and later Honeywell, had built 600/6000 series mainframes with special hardware modifications specifically designed to support MULTICS.

Particularly in the Government space, MULTICS was very highly regarded and was the OS preferred by many. Honeywell almost lost a very large Government contract because they tried to push GCOS down a customer's throat when they really wanted and insisted on MULTICS.

As for performance, I never heard of any complaints regarding how MULTICS ran on the 6000 series mainframes - only kudos.

MULTICS was a true time-sharing OS. GCOS was a batch oriented OS with a timesharing subsystem (TSS) tacked on later and which became the rationalization used by Honeywell as to why MULTICS was no longer needed. Many, many customers mourned the demise of MULTICS, and Honeywell lost many customers when it died.

By the way, those who worked on MULTICS at Honeywell referred to themselves, and were referred to by others as Multicians. It is rumored that a number of these Multicians' feet did not touch the ground when they walked.Edited 2007-11-12 22:18 Mon, 12 Nov 2007 22:12:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (PunchCardGuy) Comments He's serious! http://osnews.com/thread?284147 http://osnews.com/thread?284147 Comment was misplaced. Nevermind.Edited 2007-11-12 22:22 Mon, 12 Nov 2007 22:22:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (eantoranz) Comments RE[4]: Awesome http://osnews.com/thread?284148 http://osnews.com/thread?284148 He's serious!

Come on!!! it's no secret that Microsoft goes a long way (or so they say) to make sure that legacy applications run on Windows... I'd day MS programmers have to support APIs going back to MS-DOS 3.0... and we all know how good Microsoft Software is in general... so no wonder things fail anyway. Mon, 12 Nov 2007 22:24:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (eantoranz) Comments RE[2]: The next step http://osnews.com/thread?284151 http://osnews.com/thread?284151 being as much of MULTICS is from BEFORE software patents were even allowed by the patent office, opening it up would be the prior art doom for a good chunk of the software industry. Many companies like IBM only started collecting patents in the 70's and 80's in earnest.. the original good stuff was long in public domain, but kept private because nobody release the source. A release like this would show how big a sham software patents really are. Mon, 12 Nov 2007 22:34:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (mabhatter) Comments RE[2]: RMS worked on Multics http://osnews.com/thread?284153 http://osnews.com/thread?284153 Yeah, I attempted to hotplug some DDR2-667 last week. The smoke effect from the motherboard was most realistic. Mon, 12 Nov 2007 22:36:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (gavin.mccord) Comments RE[3]: RMS worked on Multics http://osnews.com/thread?284158 http://osnews.com/thread?284158 """

Yeah, I attempted to hotplug some DDR2-667 last week. The smoke effect from the motherboard was most realistic.

"""

LOL :-)

The old Multics machines didn't use memory sticks, of course. One could add and remove memory *cabinets*. One imagines that when that didn't work right, the firemen, fire trucks, and water spray might have been quite realistic. ;-)Edited 2007-11-12 22:45 Mon, 12 Nov 2007 22:44:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (sbergman27) Comments RE[3]: RMS worked on Multics http://osnews.com/thread?284164 http://osnews.com/thread?284164 "Yeah, I attempted to hotplug some DDR2-667 last week. The smoke effect from the motherboard was most realistic."

/dev/mem: Device disappeared
All processes exited on signal 11: Out of memory
Page fault, reload OC/EC

:-) Mon, 12 Nov 2007 22:59:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Doc Pain) Comments RE[5]: Awesome http://osnews.com/thread?284167 http://osnews.com/thread?284167

it's no secret that Microsoft goes a long way (or so they say) to make sure that legacy applications run on Windows... I'd day MS programmers have to support APIs going back to MS-DOS 3.0...

Judging from Vista, I would say DOS support is not even close to their priority these days. QEMU + FreeDOS will have to suffice (probably well beyond SP1).Edited 2007-11-12 23:07 Mon, 12 Nov 2007 23:06:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Rugxulo) Comments RE[4]: Awesome http://osnews.com/thread?284193 http://osnews.com/thread?284193 PL/I is hardly a difficult language to understand. It's similar to ALGOL in some respects, which eventually led to varieties of Pascal and Modula. Having some knowledge of data languages will help also, but once again, there isn't a whole lot that shouldn't be apparently to those who know C and SQL.

MULTICS was an interesting operating system but it always seemed buggy and unstable. Hopefully, the opening of the source code will help others avoid mistakes with a quick history lesson. Tue, 13 Nov 2007 01:30:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (bousozoku) Comments what's the http://osnews.com/thread?284195 http://osnews.com/thread?284195 system requirement of that beast ?
possible cpu ? (hmm was it even called cpu at that time

)
RAM ?
Wondering if it's portable to more common hardware (it seems to require specific behaviour from the system), were rings backed by hw or software only ? Tue, 13 Nov 2007 01:51:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (mmu_man) Comments Releasing source code http://osnews.com/thread?284200 http://osnews.com/thread?284200 This is cool
Maybe soon people will release the source code for other dead operating systems-like Vista

:P Tue, 13 Nov 2007 01:59:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (mwh7174) Comments RE: Releasing source code http://osnews.com/thread?284202 http://osnews.com/thread?284202 """

Maybe soon people will release the source code for other dead operating systems-like Vista

"""

Ye Gads! At least have the *decency* to wait for the body to get cold. ;-) Tue, 13 Nov 2007 02:13:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (sbergman27) Comments RE[5]: Awesome http://osnews.com/thread?284207 http://osnews.com/thread?284207 Well, they do that via a virtual machine environment which runs on top of the Win32 subsystem. So I wouldn't say that DOS is a critical or core component of Windows, by far. The NT kernel, in fact, has very little in common with DOS. The old-style APIs are only on the very surface of Win32 (the APIs exported by the core DLLs: kernel32.dll, gdi32.dll and user32.dll). All the other Windows APIs, such as those exported by ntdll.dll, the kernel and other newer components have very little win3.1 or DOS in them. Heck, even the old style Windows API calls aren't very DOS-y at all. Tue, 13 Nov 2007 03:34:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (siride) Comments RE[5]: Awesome http://osnews.com/thread?284209 http://osnews.com/thread?284209 Have to agree there, anyone who is even remotely profficient in C should be able to read some PL/1 although it was heading in the Algol direction while C is more transparent to the hardware.

Also before C even arrived on micro computers, Intel had a subset of PM/1 that was probably as close to hardware as C was, it was part of their development systems they sold for 8085 and early 8086 boxes.

The only problem with reading really old software codes esp going way back to 50-60's codes is that the whole way of thinking about machines was in a different context. They were the first to do something or certain ways of doing things were common knowledge then and now forgotten. One has to set aside much of what one knows today to appreciate what was done then. Tue, 13 Nov 2007 03:59:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (transputer_guy) Comments MULTICS http://osnews.com/thread?284221 http://osnews.com/thread?284221 Nice, but about 30 years too late ...

BTW, does it run compiz? anybody? :p Tue, 13 Nov 2007 08:03:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (vermaden) Comments PL/1 http://osnews.com/thread?284234 http://osnews.com/thread?284234 PL/1 is hardly a lost skill... I worked with a bunch of PL/1 programmers in 2000/2001. A lot of IBM hardware still uses it. In fact, the guys I was working with were even writing stored procedures for DB/2 in PL/1. lol.. Tue, 13 Nov 2007 10:17:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (memson) Comments RE[3]: The next step http://osnews.com/thread?284258 http://osnews.com/thread?284258 Good point!

It may be that if some software developer is attacked by Microsoft or others for infringing a software patent, the developer may now be able to dig through the Multics code and prove that the technique or algorithm was in regular use BEFORE the patent was issued. This release may well protect some innocent people. Tue, 13 Nov 2007 15:42:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (KenJackson) Comments RE: Compiler http://osnews.com/thread?284260 http://osnews.com/thread?284260 GCC can compile PL/1 code

I thought that was a joke, but to my surprise it's true: http://pl1gcc.sourceforge.net/ Tue, 13 Nov 2007 15:58:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (KenJackson) Comments Linux.... http://osnews.com/thread?284264 http://osnews.com/thread?284264 Wonder if there is useful stuff in MULTICS that the Linux community will look at and try to port into their OS..?! Tue, 13 Nov 2007 16:21:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (mlauzon) Comments RE: what's the http://osnews.com/thread?284289 http://osnews.com/thread?284289 For all your information about Multics:

http://www.multicians.org/

In particular:

Multics ran on specialized expensive CPU hardware that provided a segmented, paged, ring-structured virtual memory. The system is a symmetric multiprocessor with shared physical and virtual memory. Standard Honeywell mainframe peripherals and memory were used.

(http://www.multicians.org/general.html)

Also: http://www.multicians.org/fjcc1.html

I remember reading once that a few megabytes (of 8-bit bytes) is enough, so most of the problems in emulating the hardware will be the CPU and MMU. Tue, 13 Nov 2007 19:18:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (w-ber) Comments RE[4]: Awesome http://osnews.com/thread?284323 http://osnews.com/thread?284323 I can't tell if you're being sarcastic for humorous effect, or if you actually believe that...

Believe what? It's all true. Almost the entire DOS operating system is still in Vista. Look for yourself. You can still run "edit" and execute 16-bit executables. As far as compatiblity goes it's a nightmare for Vista. Financial software, antivirus programs, pre-2003 Office, various games, etc that have been designed for XP no longer work on Vista.Edited 2007-11-13 22:53 Tue, 13 Nov 2007 22:52:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (abraxas) Comments RE[5]: Awesome http://osnews.com/thread?284354 http://osnews.com/thread?284354

Believe what? It's all true. Almost the entire DOS operating system is still in Vista. Look for yourself. You can still run "edit" and execute 16-bit executables. As far as compatiblity goes it's a nightmare for Vista. Financial software, antivirus programs, pre-2003 Office, various games, etc that have been designed for XP no longer work on Vista.

Um, DOS compatibility ain't too great in Vista 32-bit, considering you can't run full-screen plus there's a 32 MB limit on DPMI. And there are other minor issues too. No, I don't know why it's so hard to keep everything that worked in XP functioning okay, but apparently, they broke it. And you can't even install VPC2007 on Vista Home (for whatever strange reason). No, Vista (although bloated) ain't complete crap, but it still needs a bit of work. Those of us who have it will just have to wait for SP1.Edited 2007-11-14 05:26 Wed, 14 Nov 2007 05:25:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Rugxulo) Comments GE-635 http://osnews.com/thread?284355 http://osnews.com/thread?284355 Apparently someone has worked on GE-635 emulator to run Multics, much before this source release.

http://orangesquid.net/projects/ge635/ Wed, 14 Nov 2007 05:27:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (saxiyn) Comments This could be good... http://osnews.com/thread?284690 http://osnews.com/thread?284690 ...if some more of the concepts from Multics end up being in Linux or other decent contemporary operating systems. Thu, 15 Nov 2007 21:46:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (twenex) Comments