OSNews: http://www.osnews.com/story/19030/Red_Hat_s_Open_Source_IDE Exploring the Future of Computing en-us Copyright 2001-2009, David Adams adam+nospam@osnews.com Tue, 24 Nov 2009 18:32:24 GMT http://www.osnews.com/images/osnews.gif OSNews.com http://www.osnews.com spoilt! http://osnews.com/thread?290013 http://osnews.com/thread?290013 Eclipse, netbeans and now this? I think im getting spolied for choice!

Certainly worth a go, if its good I will use it, if not..

Shows the power of the Jboss brand that they release someone elses product under the name though Tue, 11 Dec 2007 16:57:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Adurbe) Comments RE: spoilt! http://osnews.com/thread?290014 http://osnews.com/thread?290014 This IS Eclipse, actually. Tue, 11 Dec 2007 17:18:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (d_Yn) Comments The real link http://osnews.com/thread?290015 http://osnews.com/thread?290015 .. is: http://www.jboss.com/products/devstudio
or: http://www.redhat.com/developer_studio/?intcmp=70160000000HETe
or: http://www.press.redhat.com/2007/12/10/introducing-jboss-developer-...

not some ad-ridden site that doesn't link back to the source material [/rant] ;) Edited 2007-12-11 17:31 UTC Tue, 11 Dec 2007 17:29:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (stestagg) Comments $99? http://osnews.com/thread?290017 http://osnews.com/thread?290017 When will they learn? While certainly not expensive, I can't imagine that many prospective users will shell out $99 to download and kick the tires on this package. Most enterprise users can't just plunk down $99! You think they're going to go thru the IT purchasing process to try JBoss Studio!?

RH, you're letting your grip on the enterprise slowly but surely slip thru your fingers with this nonsense. Get your products into the hands of users! Your enterprise client-base will come through with the subscriptions.Edited 2007-12-11 17:44 Tue, 11 Dec 2007 17:42:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (explosiv0SX) Comments RE: $99? http://osnews.com/thread?290020 http://osnews.com/thread?290020 Well, it's quite typical for the commercial C++ IDE's to be over $1000. I'm not saying that it's necessarily worth shelling out $99 just to try out Red Hat's IDE, but as far as IDE's go, if there's a price tag attached to it, $99 is cheap. Tue, 11 Dec 2007 18:01:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Kalessin) Comments RE: spoilt! http://osnews.com/thread?290021 http://osnews.com/thread?290021 Exadel == Eclipse+plugins

I've used Exadel for quite some time and was hard to let it go after moving away from the project that had it.

But now with NetBeans 6 ;)
Things are different pal... Tue, 11 Dec 2007 18:03:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (HangLoose) Comments Sigh http://osnews.com/thread?290024 http://osnews.com/thread?290024 Yippy.. More Java crap.. boring. Tue, 11 Dec 2007 18:18:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (BSDfan) Comments RE: $99? http://osnews.com/thread?290025 http://osnews.com/thread?290025 In many enterprises there are a set of approved software, and you don't download things that are not approved if you like your job. So going through the IT department would have been necessary even if it was free of charge. I wouldn't call $99 expensive. The process of getting it approved for use, probably costs more in many companies.

So, the $99 price is most likely a bigger problems to amateur users, that program for fun and don't make money from their software, than it is to enterprises. Tue, 11 Dec 2007 18:18:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (unoengborg) Comments RE: spoilt! http://osnews.com/thread?290026 http://osnews.com/thread?290026 Eclipse-based IDE? It's based on Java. No thanks, I won't give it 120MB of RAM just to display the IDE's GUI. I'll be fine with a 100% native application like Code:Blocks, KDevelop, Komodo or Dev C++.

I tend to avoid Java applications at all price. RAM is still expensive. I ditched Zend Studio, Aptana and Eclipse for this reason. You see right away when it's a Java application. Long live C++. Tue, 11 Dec 2007 18:45:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (YouGenia) Comments RE: $99? http://osnews.com/thread?290027 http://osnews.com/thread?290027 It's GPLv2, you can compile it. Like Centos compile RHEL.
Please do it for Fedora, Ubuntu, Centos, Debian... Tue, 11 Dec 2007 18:47:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (superman) Comments RE[2]: spoilt! http://osnews.com/thread?290028 http://osnews.com/thread?290028 "It's based in Java. Long Live C++."

What a great set of original arguments... Tue, 11 Dec 2007 18:59:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (HangLoose) Comments RE: $99? http://osnews.com/thread?290031 http://osnews.com/thread?290031 Quit being a leech on society. Red Hat went out and bought this closed source software and then released it under the GPL. How many companies do stuff like that. Then they only charge $99, which includes a copy of RHEL and a RHN subscription to keep the box up to date using Red Hat's repo's. And you are complaining about $99. This would cost thousands of dollars from Microsoft. Plus, in a matter of weeks, it will be added to all the other distros anyway, so quit whining. While free is nice, the free is really about freedom. Not being a cheapskate. Tue, 11 Dec 2007 19:28:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (TechGeek) Comments RE[3]: spoilt! http://osnews.com/thread?290035 http://osnews.com/thread?290035 Not to mention incredibly lame...err.. i mean witty username. Tue, 11 Dec 2007 20:10:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Soulbender) Comments containers and frameworks http://osnews.com/thread?290037 http://osnews.com/thread?290037 So, the article leaves much to the imagination...

Okay, so it's got complete jboss integration, but what about other app/web containers like weblogic, geronimo, glassfish, etc?

what about other frameworks such as struts 2, axis 2, etc?

Anyway, great to hear there's even more choice in the IDE arena.

btw, right now I'm using MyEclipse IDE and it does the job. It's got it's problems, but nothing's perfect. Tue, 11 Dec 2007 20:32:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (centinall) Comments RE: containers and frameworks http://osnews.com/thread?290038 http://osnews.com/thread?290038 Redhat bought a closed source IDE to improve JBoss's offering. You know that Redhat owns JBoss, right? Since IBM, Sun, Oracle, and Bea all ship IDE's with their app server stacks, it makes sense for JBoss to follow suit.

This is a pretty good move for Redhat. Since it is based on Eclipse, any plugin for the other containers / app servers will work (no surprises there). Tue, 11 Dec 2007 20:37:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (SEJeff) Comments RE[2]: $99? http://osnews.com/thread?290039 http://osnews.com/thread?290039 Don't inhibit his freedom... He's free to be a cheapskate.
Freedom and all that. Tue, 11 Dec 2007 20:54:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (jakesdad) Comments RE[2]: $99? http://osnews.com/thread?290040 http://osnews.com/thread?290040
Quit being a leech on society. Red Hat went out and bought this closed source software and then released it under the GPL.


Well, as long as you're going to use the word leech, you might want to ask the Eclipse developers their opinion of RH's choice of GPL licensing, which effectively locks them out of this wonderful gift RH is "giving" the community. As with the GPL and obtaining RH for free, the license permits it, but as you point out, there is a question of reciprocity and fairness, right? ;) Edited 2007-12-11 21:07 UTC Tue, 11 Dec 2007 21:00:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (elsewhere) Comments RE[2]: spoilt! http://osnews.com/thread?290043 http://osnews.com/thread?290043 RAM is too expensive?

I guess the $69 US I paid (including shipping) for the extra 2 GB of RAM I stuffed in my desktop was just too expensive, huh? Tue, 11 Dec 2007 21:13:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (DoctorPepper) Comments Why? http://osnews.com/thread?290054 http://osnews.com/thread?290054 Why are all the good free IDE's meant for Java?

Alright there's good and free IDE's for other environments too, they're simply not corporate grade. Tue, 11 Dec 2007 22:07:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (phox) Comments RE: Why? http://osnews.com/thread?290060 http://osnews.com/thread?290060 When it comes to free java IDE, you are pretty much talking about netbeans or eclipse.

IMO the best Java IDE (or just best IDE.) is IDEa by jetbrains (http://www.jetbrains.com/idea/) Back in my j2ee days, I single handedly got the whole team using it, everyone liked it so much we managed to put enough pressure on management to buy us licenses, which they REALLY didn't want to do, as our contract with Oracle gave us a free JDeveloper site license. Tue, 11 Dec 2007 22:29:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (google_ninja) Comments The $99 question... http://osnews.com/thread?290074 http://osnews.com/thread?290074 The question I ask is why don't Red Hat offer this free of charge to existing enterprise subscription customers? basically, have a Enterprise subscription at a set rate, and keep cramming things through the 'enterprise download channel' to add more value. Tue, 11 Dec 2007 23:41:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (kaiwai) Comments RE: Why? http://osnews.com/thread?290083 http://osnews.com/thread?290083
Why are all the good free IDE's meant for Java?


That is a very good question. Kdevelop is not too bad but doesn't seem to implement code completion yet. Also I want a free IDE for writing python with code completion. Where to look? Wed, 12 Dec 2007 00:00:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (RIchard James13) Comments RE: Why? http://osnews.com/thread?290100 http://osnews.com/thread?290100 - it is popular
- Because Java is fast and portable, Java IDE's are written in Java, it is proven that this is a much better choice than c++.
- it is much easier to write intelligent IDE's for strongly typed languages. dynamic nature of scripting languages makes many IDE tricks (smart code completion, refactoring, formatting etc) very difficult.Edited 2007-12-12 01:36 Wed, 12 Dec 2007 01:34:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (ahmetaa) Comments RE[3]: $99? http://osnews.com/thread?290103 http://osnews.com/thread?290103 Elsewhere:
What do Eclipse developers have against Red hat? Why can't they use this IDE? I don't know what you are inferring so please tell me. Wed, 12 Dec 2007 01:47:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (TechGeek) Comments RE[2]: Why? http://osnews.com/thread?290111 http://osnews.com/thread?290111 Also java as big corporate support ($$$) behind his shoulder.

As for strongly type languages, I don't think that's really a issues, pydev eclipse plugin for python provide all your tricks. There will probably other issues than this one. (no compile validation, runtime validation just discover bug at runtime, when it shouldn't happen) Wed, 12 Dec 2007 02:56:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (sanctus) Comments RE[4]: $99? http://osnews.com/thread?290124 http://osnews.com/thread?290124
Elsewhere:
What do Eclipse developers have against Red hat? Why can't they use this IDE? I don't know what you are inferring so please tell me.


The plugins are GPL, which is incompatible with the EPL licensing of Eclipse. It's like taking existing BSD code and modifying it with GPL code, which is permissable by the license but ensures that the original developers of the platform code aren't able to benefit from your modifications by incorporating it into the community base.

I don't want to detract from Red Hat's move here, it's admirable that they acquired a proprietary company and open the code up, but let's keep in mind that they are leveraging a different OSS community's platform to do so, and in effect proprietarizing their contribution by use of the GPL to the exclusive benefit of the RH/JBoss/GPL community.

There's nothing inherently wrong with what Red Hat did, and I'm not trying to turn this into a license war, I'm just trying to point out the irony of complaining about people insisting on using Red Hat code for free without reciprocation as being leechers, while Red Hat is somewhat doing the same thing with the Eclipse community. That's all. Wed, 12 Dec 2007 04:50:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (elsewhere) Comments RE[3]: Why? http://osnews.com/thread?290208 http://osnews.com/thread?290208 aparently you dont code in java, "all your tricks" is a bold statement. Wed, 12 Dec 2007 12:13:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (ahmetaa) Comments RE: Why? http://osnews.com/thread?290293 http://osnews.com/thread?290293 Why are all the good free IDE's meant for Java?

Probably because there's a lot of mileage in Java in lots of companies, particularly in application servers (JBoss). Wed, 12 Dec 2007 19:16:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (segedunum) Comments RE[2]: Why? http://osnews.com/thread?290415 http://osnews.com/thread?290415 I am sure there are Python plugins for eclipse. The perl one seemed pretty good, once you got it set up. (I Have to admit I haven't really used the Python ones). Thu, 13 Dec 2007 12:07:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (collywolly) Comments RE[5]: $99? http://osnews.com/thread?290559 http://osnews.com/thread?290559 ahh. I wasnt aware that they were incompatible. Thats kind of a pain. Thu, 13 Dec 2007 20:52:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (TechGeek) Comments RE[3]: $99? http://osnews.com/thread?290565 http://osnews.com/thread?290565 After reading the licenses and thinking about it, I have come to an opinion about the Eclipse devs. Its there own fault for getting screwed. They picked a license that allowed for companies to close up the stuff they built on top of Eclipse. It was fully their choice. They shouldnt have any beef against Red Hat who simply opened up what was once closed. The Eclipse devs didnt lose anything. They just dont get the chance to benefit from Red Hat like everyone else, because they chose a different license. If they GPL their stuff, they can add in the new code and everyone will be better off. I dont see how anyone can be ticked at Red Hat here. Thu, 13 Dec 2007 21:02:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (TechGeek) Comments RE[2]: Why? http://osnews.com/thread?290760 http://osnews.com/thread?290760 Try PIDA. VIM supports code completion for Python and PIDA is a full IDE with VIM embedded.

http://pida.co.uk/

http://pida.co.uk/trac/wiki/ConfiguringVimForPython Fri, 14 Dec 2007 14:43:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (abraxas) Comments