OSNews:

OSNews: http://www.osnews.com/story/19204/Haiku_Java_Port_Team_Gets_Seal_of_Approval_From_OpenJDK Exploring the Future of Computing en-us Copyright 2001-2013, David Adams adam+nospam@osnews.com Thu, 20 Jun 2013 04:52:42 GMT http://www.osnews.com/images/osnews.gif OSNews.com http://www.osnews.com Can't wait to have haiku on my desktop http://www.osnews.com/thread?297469 http://www.osnews.com/thread?297469 Haiku is the only OS that seems exciting to watch for me. And if they keep this kind of progress, I guess it will not take much time before I can use it primarily.

Good work (to OSNews too, for bringing us these stories)!Edited 2008-01-24 00:45 UTC Thu, 24 Jan 2008 00:45:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (sukru) Comments What's thisJava thing? http://www.osnews.com/thread?297488 http://www.osnews.com/thread?297488 /me looks at Windows box at work.> No Java installed.
/me looks at Windows box at home.> No Java installed.
/me looks at MacBookPro.> Java installed by default, but no applications on box.
/me looks at Zeta box.> No Java installed.
/me looks at Haiku box (http://www.users.on.net/zenja/haiku/haiku.png) while browsing with mozilla and listening to MP3 > No Java installed.

So, what's this Java thing? Anyone actually use it? Thu, 24 Jan 2008 02:03:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Zenja) Comments RE: What's thisJava thing? http://www.osnews.com/thread?297490 http://www.osnews.com/thread?297490 Perhaps the right question is: If you ran across a website that embedded some "rich" functionality beyond what can be done with a standard web browser with javascript - would you rather it was a Java applet, Flash, or maybe even something new such as Silverlight?

I know which answer I would choose.

Furthermore, given that Haiku (and BeOS) is still lacking in an abundance of good, modern software in all categories - Java has plenty of opportunity to fill gaps that will exist until application developers catch up with Haiku and write native apps.

Anyhow, I'm certainly no Java zealot - but come on... Thu, 24 Jan 2008 02:33:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (umccullough) Comments RE: What's thisJava thing? http://www.osnews.com/thread?297492 http://www.osnews.com/thread?297492 in your windows machine probably everything was written in C++. i bet you dont have any application using C# , php or python either. go to a server room for a change. or visit a developer. Thu, 24 Jan 2008 02:38:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (ahmetaa) Comments RE[2]: What's thisJava thing? http://www.osnews.com/thread?297497 http://www.osnews.com/thread?297497 I'm actually a principal software engineer. We write our own Operating System, graphics library, network subsystem, API framework etc. No .NET. No Java.

Do you guys think that prior to 1995, there was a dark ages in software? You know, people were playing games, watching movies, creating media content, doing office work, browsing the net, using client/server achtiectures etc, well before Java and .NET were released to the world. Thu, 24 Jan 2008 03:28:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Zenja) Comments RE[3]: What's thisJava thing? http://www.osnews.com/thread?297512 http://www.osnews.com/thread?297512

Do you guys think that prior to 1995, there was a dark ages in software?

Um... yes

You know, people were playing games, watching movies, creating media content, doing office work, browsing the net, using client/server achtiectures etc, well before Java and .NET were released to the world.

Well, a minority of computer users were even browsing the net prior to 1995 anyway...

In any case, you're arguing for the non-usefulness of Java - a difficult and bold position to uphold. Perhaps in *your* world it's not useful, but it's clearly not a dead technology. Thu, 24 Jan 2008 05:52:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (umccullough) Comments JDK 1.4? http://www.osnews.com/thread?297515 http://www.osnews.com/thread?297515 First of all I am excited about this mostly for what this will mean for Java than Haiku itself. Every subsequent port should get easier and easier. One day I hope for a port optimized for the PS3!

But first two questions:

1) Why port a JDK and not just focus on the JRE first? It seems like an unecessary distraction. It's better for end-users to get applications running then to be able to code them.

2) Why 1.4? 1.5 is such a large leap ahead that it seems like they will be missing a lot by not aiming for that. I wouldn't support a Java 1.4 app w/o a large $$$ incentive just for the loss of Generics alone. It seems like the most sensible think would be to port Java 7 so that when the port is done it's update and that they can contribute towards the development of Java 7 itself. Thu, 24 Jan 2008 06:20:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (CaptainPinko) Comments RE[4]: What's thisJava thing? http://www.osnews.com/thread?297516 http://www.osnews.com/thread?297516

Do you guys think that prior to 1995, there was a dark ages in software?

I got 2 words for you my friend
Trumpet Winsock!

Believe me, it was dark ages Thu, 24 Jan 2008 06:24:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Haicube) Comments RE: JDK 1.4? http://www.osnews.com/thread?297519 http://www.osnews.com/thread?297519 I guess you are referring to
"I'm having some great flash-back style memories of working on the JDK 1.4 port."?

In that sentence he is talking about the Java port for BeOS, which was 1.4. There was also a video of it running on Haiku one or two years ago.

OpenJDK, and therefore the current port are, of course, Java 7.Edited 2008-01-24 06:55 UTC Thu, 24 Jan 2008 06:54:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Savior) Comments Eclipse http://www.osnews.com/thread?297525 http://www.osnews.com/thread?297525 It would be fantastic if we could run Eclipse on Haiku!! For Java development, but also for C++ development as a replacement for BeIDE.

Great! Thu, 24 Jan 2008 09:21:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (testadura) Comments RE[2]: JDK 1.4? http://www.osnews.com/thread?297532 http://www.osnews.com/thread?297532

OpenJDK, and therefore the current port are, of course, Java 7.

Am I the only one who find the Java versioning confusing? Thu, 24 Jan 2008 10:09:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Soulbender) Comments RE[3]: JDK 1.4? http://www.osnews.com/thread?297533 http://www.osnews.com/thread?297533 No, and that's exactly why Sun changed to a simpler naming convention for Java 5, Java 6, and the upcoming Java 7. Thu, 24 Jan 2008 10:14:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (gjames) Comments RE: What's thisJava thing? http://www.osnews.com/thread?297534 http://www.osnews.com/thread?297534 Well. 85% of programmers here I know are Java-programmers.. And looking at open job position I suspect that it is situation for whole programming industry here. In web-centric era lot of things is happening behind your look/scene at servers.

So, it is matter of platform-popularity around programmers, not end-users. My son was active BeOS-user, until he got programmer education and job - and for long time he had hope for BeOS Java port - as it don't matter for Java, as you can guess, which platform to use for development. But then he dropped BeOS fully - not due lack of "end-user" apps. But just because lack of Java. Thu, 24 Jan 2008 10:49:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (fyysik) Comments RE[3]: JDK 1.4? http://www.osnews.com/thread?297536 http://www.osnews.com/thread?297536 Java2 1.4
Java 5.0
Java 6

Confusing? What?

I really don't know who came up with this, but thankfully from Java 6, it's become really simple. Thu, 24 Jan 2008 10:57:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Savior) Comments RE[2]: What's thisJava thing? http://www.osnews.com/thread?297550 http://www.osnews.com/thread?297550 I'm one too. Java rocks.

Unfortunatly Swing's threading forces everyone to learn threading to write a good app, but most don't. So what users percieve as slow Java is just a messed up GUI where everything is waiting for the GUI-thread.

Luckily the Be API choose a better solution where they actually for most cases implemented this threading for you. This is done by using messaging and a worker thread for each window, in comparison to one worker-thread and incoherent calling/messaging in Swing.

Firefox/Mozilla unfortunatly uses the Swing approach which will guarantee that the GUI will never be as good as it could be.

Update:
And to put a band-aid on Java they actually added SwingWorker to the API. Personally I think they should rethink the threading completly.Edited 2008-01-24 12:44 UTC Thu, 24 Jan 2008 12:39:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (TQH !) Comments RE[4]: JDK 1.4? http://www.osnews.com/thread?297551 http://www.osnews.com/thread?297551 And here I am waiting for Java6 Update N. Confusing. Yes indeed! Thu, 24 Jan 2008 12:42:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (TQH !) Comments Congratulations Bryan http://www.osnews.com/thread?297567 http://www.osnews.com/thread?297567 Congratulations Bryan!! Been a long time since we worked on the original port. I'm glad to see work still progressing!!! Thu, 24 Jan 2008 13:54:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (arougthopher) Comments RE: JDK 1.4? http://www.osnews.com/thread?297570 http://www.osnews.com/thread?297570 1) Why port a JDK and not just focus on the JRE first? It seems like an unecessary distraction. It's better for end-users to get applications running then to be able to code them.

Despite what SUN tells you java is not really "write once, run anywere", it's more like "write once, broken everywhere". Most large java applications will still have to be ported to Haiku in some fashion. You need a JDK for this.

2) Why 1.4? 1.5 is such a large leap ahead that it seems like they will be missing a lot by not aiming for that. I wouldn't support a Java 1.4 app w/o a large $$$ incentive just for the loss of Generics alone. It seems like the most sensible think would be to port Java 7 so that when the port is done it's update and that they can contribute towards the development of Java 7 itself.

Can you point me to where it says they are aiming for Java 1.4. I don't see that anywhere. As far as I read they are porting OpenJDK which is Java 7. Thu, 24 Jan 2008 14:23:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (abraxas) Comments RE[5]: What's thisJava thing? http://www.osnews.com/thread?297578 http://www.osnews.com/thread?297578 Except the games were better. Thu, 24 Jan 2008 15:12:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Soulbender) Comments RE[2]: JDK 1.4? http://www.osnews.com/thread?297582 http://www.osnews.com/thread?297582

Despite what SUN tells you java is not really "write once, run anywere", it's more like "write once, broken everywhere".

This hasn't been true for quite some time now. So long as the programmer doesn't make any stupid assumptions there's no reason a Java application shouldn't run on any platform for which there exists a compatible JVM.

Most large java applications will still have to be ported to Haiku in some fashion. You need a JDK for this.

Yes, you do need a JDK, but that JDK can be on any platform. You don't need a Haiku JDK to write Java applications for Haiku.Edited 2008-01-24 15:29 UTC Thu, 24 Jan 2008 15:28:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (gjames) Comments RE[3]: JDK 1.4? http://www.osnews.com/thread?297592 http://www.osnews.com/thread?297592

So long as the programmer doesn't make any stupid assumptions there's no reason a Java application shouldn't run on any platform for which there exists a compatible JVM.

Well... I could make the same claim about <insert your favourite compiled language>. However, when people say "Java" they can mean one of the following:

1. Java the programming language.
2. Java the standard library.
3. Java the virtual machine.
4. Java the compiler (yes, I've met people who use this terminology).

Personally, Java the programming language could use a few constructs from Scheme, but that's beside the point. Let's assume we have programming language X that also had a huge, portable library with a GUI, supports network programming, text parsing, and the kitchen sink that assumed little about the target architecture (*ahem* http://cpan.org *ahem*). What are the portability issues left, if we look at the language itself?

- If it allows direct manipulation of bits, there's always the endianness to consider.
- Hmm... anything else?

The compiler, whether it is targeted to a virtual machine or the actual machine, takes care of the rest.

In order to port Java the virtual machine, you don't need to do that much. It's not a huge program. Why do you think it takes so long to port "Java", then? Because the standard library is not really portable: it doesn't compile as is on an arbitrary new target platform after you've ported the virtual machine and the compiler (which should be all that is needed).

Coming back to the point, what you say is partially true: the *language* is portable, in the sense that as long as you don't use the standard library, the built-in features should work on any compatible JVM. Well, almost... Ever heard of J2ME? Thu, 24 Jan 2008 16:49:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (w-ber) Comments RE: What's thisJava thing? http://www.osnews.com/thread?297604 http://www.osnews.com/thread?297604 Well, it has a lot of use if cross platform is important to a developer (without having to maintain several versions of the source/binary) and fast performance is not an issue (not saying that java is slow, but it will never be as fast as a native binary).

The point? Just because you don't use it, does not mean that no-one uses it, and that its pointless. Thu, 24 Jan 2008 18:00:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (computrius) Comments RE: Can't wait to have haiku on my desktop http://www.osnews.com/thread?297606 http://www.osnews.com/thread?297606

Haiku is the only OS that seems exciting to watch for me.

Same for me (although I am also interested in following ReactOS's development).

Personally, I find it a breath of fresh air to see anything that is not another re-hash of a *nix based system.Edited 2008-01-24 18:08 UTC Thu, 24 Jan 2008 18:07:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (oomingmak) Comments RE[5]: What's thisJava thing? http://www.osnews.com/thread?297614 http://www.osnews.com/thread?297614 LOL! Thu, 24 Jan 2008 18:46:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Moochman) Comments RE[4]: JDK 1.4? http://www.osnews.com/thread?297615 http://www.osnews.com/thread?297615 Considering apps written for Haiku are written for Java *Standard Edition*, there really isn't much question about whether they will run. They will. And if you didn't check for endianness in your program, that's your fault, not Java's.

@abraxas: Stop spreading FUD.Edited 2008-01-24 18:56 UTC Thu, 24 Jan 2008 18:54:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Moochman) Comments RE[3]: What's thisJava thing? http://www.osnews.com/thread?297620 http://www.osnews.com/thread?297620 Then you're a very, very lucky person.

Since I went to school and got my degree, I have been inundated with Java. In school, nearly 40% of our CS classes used Java to teach with. This is a growing trend, like it or not.

Low-level coding skills are becoming more scare among graduates. Attracting developers to a platform requires the availability to use high-level languages with rich API's and burgeoning communities around them.

The successful Operating Systems that exist on your desktop, servers, and any other computer you come in contact with ship with manuals, marketing, and solid API's. The wildly successful OS's come with API's that are familiar, have a vocal support base, and are reasonably mature.

You can carve out a niche without mainstream high-level support. You'll attract developers who develop for the love of the code. But without major marketing horsepower, without incredibly compelling paradigms, you'll never attain the critical mass of developer interest required to catapult your little platform out of the shadows and into the mainstream.

Getting Java on Haiku isn't just about running Java programs. It's about making Haiku a viable alternative for thousands of CS students, professionals, and hobbyists. Weather you like it or not, there are millions of skilled Java developers. How many skilled C++ developers know the BeAPI? How many people can use C++ & the BeAPI to write code for their day-job? How people many could code in Java for their day-job? How many do? Thu, 24 Jan 2008 19:31:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (bryanv) Comments RE[3]: What's thisJava thing? http://www.osnews.com/thread?297624 http://www.osnews.com/thread?297624 The real problem is that they inherited this functionality from the AWT, which Swing uses for heavy-weight components, and the event dispatch model.

The AWT was written for the lowest common denominator of OS's, which as I'm sure you can imagine, delegates a single event pump for all Windows belonging to a process. I can only speculate as to What kIND Of WeirdoS thought that sort of messaging model was a good idea. :-DEdited 2008-01-24 20:11 UTC Thu, 24 Jan 2008 20:11:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (bryanv) Comments RE: JDK 1.4? http://www.osnews.com/thread?297626 http://www.osnews.com/thread?297626 This is not 1.4.

This is post J2SE 6, and the code that's forming the beginning of J2SE 7.

This is not just a JDK. The JRE is just a JDK without the developer tools. The Virtual Machine, class libraries, etc. are all the same. In fact, you can't get a JRE without the JDK. You need the java development tools to build a JRE or JDK. Funny thing is, those development tools for java are themselves written in java.

Chicken, meet Egg. Thu, 24 Jan 2008 20:19:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (bryanv) Comments RE[4]: What's thisJava thing? http://www.osnews.com/thread?297952 http://www.osnews.com/thread?297952 next, port mono and create a beWidget# library. Sat, 26 Jan 2008 17:28:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (modmans2ndcoming) Comments RE[3]: JDK 1.4? http://www.osnews.com/thread?297954 http://www.osnews.com/thread?297954 you need one to write java application ON Haiku Sat, 26 Jan 2008 17:31:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (modmans2ndcoming) Comments