OSNews: http://www.osnews.com/story/19384/Wubi_Arrives_a_Look_at_Ubuntu_8_04_Alpha_5 Exploring the Future of Computing en-us Copyright 2001-2009, David Adams adam+nospam@osnews.com Tue, 24 Nov 2009 19:00:44 GMT http://www.osnews.com/images/osnews.gif OSNews.com http://www.osnews.com Upgrade Path http://osnews.com/thread?302188 http://osnews.com/thread?302188 While Dapper has been running great as my File/Media/Storage server at home since release, I must say I'm looking forward to having something fresher installed.

While I haven't come across an issue where something I needed on my server wasn't available on Dapper, I'm looking forward to utilizing the latest LTS on my hardware.

and the wubi integration looks spiffy enough, how bad is the performance hit? is anything else crippled/reduced? Sun, 24 Feb 2008 22:41:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Devilotx) Comments Ubuntu 8.04 Hardy Heron Alpha 5 Screenshots http://osnews.com/thread?302194 http://osnews.com/thread?302194 http://www.thecodingstudio.com/opensource/linux/screenshots/index.p... Sun, 24 Feb 2008 23:07:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (lqsh) Comments wubi http://osnews.com/thread?302195 http://osnews.com/thread?302195 for testing a distro it's a very nice way to try with wuby.
I understand the purpose for newcomers from windows, but it could be extended to linux as well, by exemple in a /home/folder ? Sun, 24 Feb 2008 23:34:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (flojlg) Comments Playing catch-up to BeOS? Grow up! http://osnews.com/thread?302196 http://osnews.com/thread?302196 NPEdited 2008-02-24 23:38 UTC Sun, 24 Feb 2008 23:35:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (boots) Comments RE: Playing catch-up to BeOS? Grow up! http://osnews.com/thread?302197 http://osnews.com/thread?302197 Humour. A difficult concept to grasp. Sun, 24 Feb 2008 23:39:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Thom_Holwerda) Comments This isn't catch-up... http://osnews.com/thread?302199 http://osnews.com/thread?302199 ...this is the Doctor's 3rd incarnation! ;)

You might want to look up the old UMSDOS filesystem for Linux, there was a time when you could install Linux onto any DOS or Windows disk quite happily. I actually thought -- and hoped -- that it would get really popular, but it seems to have died out until now. I guess the difficulty of making a safe, full-featured NTFS driver put the idea on ice until now. Sun, 24 Feb 2008 23:51:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (eekee) Comments RE[2]: Playing catch-up to BeOS? Grow up! http://osnews.com/thread?302201 http://osnews.com/thread?302201 I thought humor was supposed to be funny? Shows how much I know. Mon, 25 Feb 2008 00:00:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Lunitik) Comments RE: Ubuntu 8.04 Hardy Heron Alpha 5 Screenshots http://osnews.com/thread?302214 http://osnews.com/thread?302214 WTF is תירבע? Someone is having problems with RTL languages. Mon, 25 Feb 2008 02:48:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (noamsml) Comments RE: This isn't catch-up... http://osnews.com/thread?302216 http://osnews.com/thread?302216 I'm glad you stated this. I remember being able to do this with Mandrake (around 6.0 or 6.1, I believe). Mon, 25 Feb 2008 03:45:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (jaypee) Comments RE[2]: This isn't catch-up... http://osnews.com/thread?302220 http://osnews.com/thread?302220 You could even do that a lot earlier than that Mandrake version. The very first versions of Slackware (at least 2.0) included support for installing on FAT filesystems per UMSDOS. The loadlin bootloader allowed users to boot Linux from DOS.

So, in reality BeOS caught up with what Linux could do for years. Mon, 25 Feb 2008 05:17:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (danieldk) Comments nothing catch up at all indeed.. http://osnews.com/thread?302223 http://osnews.com/thread?302223 as stated -- slackware has had this for long time. also other distro's have the ability to install itself even if you cannot boot from a cd/dvd if your setup has been altered by system admins.... (openSUSE for instance does this)

nothing new here under the sun.... Mon, 25 Feb 2008 06:37:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (sgibofh) Comments Installation under Windows http://osnews.com/thread?302234 http://osnews.com/thread?302234 Sure, as many have stated, Linux has been possible to be installed on a Windows partition for God knows how long time. But still, Wubi makes it really easy and straight-forward to install and try Ubuntu without having to do any disk partitioning, formatting or resizing existing partitions or messing around with any virtual machines. And as much as I personally dislike Ubuntu I can't really see this as a bad thing. The truth is that Ubuntu is the distro any newcomer is most likely to try out. This could quite potentially attract some more users to the Linux side of the world :3 Mon, 25 Feb 2008 09:18:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (WereCatf) Comments RE[3]: This isn't catch-up... http://osnews.com/thread?302236 http://osnews.com/thread?302236 In the late '90s there was actually a special distro built around Slackware's ability to run on FAT - it was called WinLinux 2000. Aside from using InstallShield as the installer, WinLinux was special because it did its hardware detection by matching the Linux drivers up to the ones installed inside Windows.

It was my first Linux distro, so I remember it with some fondness.

Take a trip back in time at http://web.archive.org/web/20010524085309rn_1/www.winlinux.net/usa-.... Be sure to check out the screenshots -- talk about way back!Edited 2008-02-25 09:24 UTC Mon, 25 Feb 2008 09:21:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (davidiwharper) Comments RE[3]: Playing catch-up to BeOS? Grow up! http://osnews.com/thread?302243 http://osnews.com/thread?302243 Agreed. It's neither funny nor necessary. Just post the news please Thom. Mon, 25 Feb 2008 10:55:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (PJBonoVox) Comments Puppy Linux http://osnews.com/thread?302245 http://osnews.com/thread?302245 Puppy Linux has had this capability for a long time, and it is brain dead simple to implement. Mon, 25 Feb 2008 11:23:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (bolomkxxviii) Comments RE: Puppy Linux http://osnews.com/thread?302247 http://osnews.com/thread?302247 How do you do raw block access from Windows -- you probably need to write to the partition's boot block. Also, I place the block number of the stage two loader into my stage one, boot block loader. I don't know how to get raw block numbers under Windows. In a boot block, you don't have the space to write support for reading directories to find the stage two file. Raw block access is probably documented somewhere... maybe on the net... You have to get past the damn security stuff the Window's operating system puts in your way to protect things. How do you access raw blocks in Linux?

LoseThos doesn't have this, but it's had live Cd's almost from day one many years ago, ahead of everybody else.Edited 2008-02-25 12:01 UTC Mon, 25 Feb 2008 12:00:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (losethos8) Comments RE[4]: This isn't catch-up... http://osnews.com/thread?302253 http://osnews.com/thread?302253 That was my first linux distro as well. Mon, 25 Feb 2008 14:02:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (javaman83) Comments Linux ntfs http://osnews.com/thread?302256 http://osnews.com/thread?302256 Anyone have a problem with this?, I see the need to make Linux more smoother for Windows users but use and install Linux on a proprietary NTFS just dont seem right.

Using NTFS from your Windows install is all fine and good but, what does the GPL and even Microsoft's licenses say about this?. What about the security like SELinux and appamour, I do wonder what the long term ramifications for this sort of install system are, running linux on a proprietary filesystem. Mon, 25 Feb 2008 14:53:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (SlackerJack) Comments RE: Installation under Windows http://osnews.com/thread?302260 http://osnews.com/thread?302260 When I mentioned being able to install Mandrake like this, I remember not having to resize partitions. It was done much the same as installing any other application under Windows. So, I don't think Wuby is breaking any new ground here. Mon, 25 Feb 2008 16:12:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (jaypee) Comments RE: Linux ntfs http://osnews.com/thread?302269 http://osnews.com/thread?302269 I wrote a detailed reply, previewed, and clicked "Submit" - and OSNews tossed my comment with an "Anonymous Posting Disabled!" error. How incredibly hostile!

The short version (can't bear to write it all again) is - no GPL violation at'all, no MS source code or trademarks used so no licenses needed there, if Microsoft attacks with patents the EU will sue (again), and it's just a short-term solution for a narrow demographic so stick with native file systems for pre-installed, production and/or secure systems.

The original was a lot more useful, but hope this helps anyway. Mon, 25 Feb 2008 17:55:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (ricegf) Comments RE: Upgrade Path http://osnews.com/thread?302271 http://osnews.com/thread?302271 I have been using Wubi for some time. The only problem I had was that the power management doesn't work. If you try to suspend, it gets stuck. This is a known bug, anyway. Otherwise I haven't had any problems, not even when upgrading from 7.04 to 7.10 until...
...until a few days ago, when a kernel update (an automatic one) crippled it and I could not boot anymore. I tried to reinstall, but it resulted in a complete uninstall. My understanding was that the data (virtual) partition would be preserved, but that didn't happen.
Luckily I keep my data on a different partition altogether, so I haven't lost it. Mon, 25 Feb 2008 18:01:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (MaxKlokan) Comments RE[4]: This isn't catch-up... http://osnews.com/thread?302272 http://osnews.com/thread?302272 Even earlier that that. Sweet memories... Minilinux: four floppies to install it on a MSDOS partition.

http://www.ibiblio.org/pub/historic-linux/distributions/mini-linux/... Mon, 25 Feb 2008 18:07:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (MaxKlokan) Comments It should offer to delete windows on the reboot ;) http://osnews.com/thread?302273 http://osnews.com/thread?302273 WARNING! MS Windows is a known security risk and may interfere with the operation of Ubuntu.

[X] Delete now (reclaim 5.4 GB of wasted space)
[ ] Ask me again later. Mon, 25 Feb 2008 19:47:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (daddio) Comments It's too bad http://osnews.com/thread?302276 http://osnews.com/thread?302276 this guy took the time to test Wubi, but didn't do any performance testing. It'll be nice to see what the performance hit is on this. we've got a lot of users at my work who use Linux just for one app; it'd be nice to use Wubi to accomplish this task, as opposed to dual booting, which they generally hate. Mon, 25 Feb 2008 19:56:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (polaris20) Comments RE: It's too bad http://osnews.com/thread?302278 http://osnews.com/thread?302278 it's still dual booting. Mon, 25 Feb 2008 20:02:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (berzerko) Comments RE: It's too bad http://osnews.com/thread?302289 http://osnews.com/thread?302289
this guy took the time to test Wubi, but didn't do any performance testing. It'll be nice to see what the performance hit is on this. we've got a lot of users at my work who use Linux just for one app; it'd be nice to use Wubi to accomplish this task, as opposed to dual booting, which they generally hate.

I think you're looking for virtualization. I like Qemu, because it lets you run a whole other operating system as if it was an application. You make a virtual hard drive, give qemu access to your cd-rom drive (or an iso image) and install the OS exactly as if you were installing to brand-new physical hardware. It's quite low-hassle, and performance isn't too bad. VMWare and Xen are higher-performance solutions, but I dont' know anything about them. Mon, 25 Feb 2008 21:14:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (eekee) Comments RE[4]: Playing catch-up to BeOS? Grow up! http://osnews.com/thread?302304 http://osnews.com/thread?302304 To each there own. I thought it was funny. A nice little jab. Don't try so hard to be offended. Mon, 25 Feb 2008 23:40:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (vimh) Comments RE[2]: Linux ntfs http://osnews.com/thread?302310 http://osnews.com/thread?302310
and it's just a short-term solution for a narrow demographic


It's kinda funny how such things tend to turn out as permanent for a lot of people. Tue, 26 Feb 2008 01:38:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Axord) Comments RE[2]: Playing catch-up to BeOS? Grow up! http://osnews.com/thread?302312 http://osnews.com/thread?302312 "Humour. A difficult concept to grasp."

And maddeningly difficult to execute, it seems.Edited 2008-02-26 02:10 UTC Tue, 26 Feb 2008 02:07:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (diskinetic) Comments Installs into Windows? http://osnews.com/thread?302321 http://osnews.com/thread?302321 Will this install into Vista or is it only for pre-Vista OS's.

DougInKY Tue, 26 Feb 2008 04:01:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (DougInKY) Comments RE: Linux ntfs http://osnews.com/thread?302322 http://osnews.com/thread?302322
Using NTFS from your Windows install is all fine and good but, what does the GPL and even Microsoft's licenses say about this?. What about the security like SELinux and appamour, I do wonder what the long term ramifications for this sort of install system are, running linux on a proprietary filesystem.


The GPL has nothing to do with anything. You can't use patents or copyrights to protect an interface, even the US courts have agreed with that, so there's no IP concerns from accessing an ntfs partition. Trying to re-implement ntfs might be problematic in certain jurisdictions, but if it already exists under Windows, there are no licensing concerns from utilizing it.

As for SELinux or AppArmor, again, it has nothing to do with anything. They operate at a different level, the drive access is simply a driver.

If there's a concern about using ntfs in linux, it should mostly be related to the fact that the devs have no control over ntfs and have to rely on documentation and reverse-engineering, though that alone is reason enough to be concerned.

NTFS actually isn't bad, it's pretty good, it's one of the things MS did right with Windows. People will argue that it is subject to fragmentation, those claims tend to be as overstated as the claims that linux file systems aren't subject to fragmentation. The truth lies somewhere in the middle.

But having said all that, I still wouldn't use it as a primary filesystem in linux. Better to stick native, there. Tue, 26 Feb 2008 04:37:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (elsewhere) Comments A nice way to tryout linux. http://osnews.com/thread?302331 http://osnews.com/thread?302331 I tried wubi some times ago, before installing natively. I'm (was) a windows xp user so the concept was very appealing to me. While UMSDOS added needed features to the FAT, wubi install everything in a file which I find to be a better solution (it feels fast, I don't know if I dreaming it or what)
I'm now using Ubuntu on a native install (and don't hate me for my choice of linux distro, this one works and you don't have to fiddle with conf files for days) thx to my try with wubi, I think I'm not alone ;) Tue, 26 Feb 2008 06:51:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Ishan) Comments full house http://osnews.com/thread?302354 http://osnews.com/thread?302354 After all Microsoft gives you windows and linux gives you the whole house. Tue, 26 Feb 2008 10:40:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (netpython) Comments Solution in search of a problem http://osnews.com/thread?302441 http://osnews.com/thread?302441 To be clear here, this is not as good as doing a 'real' install. This appears to simply create a big image file on your existing file and use Windows' bootloader to chain load Linux off of it.

The article's excuse for this repeats the age-old "Linux is too hard to install" myth and goes on to claim that this will lower the barrier to switching. This is nonsense.

If people just want to "try out" Linux without fear of harm the live CD works quite well. If people are looking to really *use* Linux and give it a fair shot then this approach is not useful. Reduced performance will be experienced, dropping the Windows installation at a later time will not be possible and (importantly) *the installation procedure is not easier*!

Debian has something similar--but better--in the form of the unofficial debian.exe, which is basically a way to bootstrap a netinst from Windows without requiring a CD. That's useful and something to consider, but if you already have a disc burned (as you would here) then there is really *no gain* in this. Tue, 26 Feb 2008 17:55:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (sorpigal) Comments