OSNews: http://www.osnews.com/story/19722/Limp Exploring the Future of Computing en-us Copyright 2001-2009, David Adams adam+nospam@osnews.com Tue, 24 Nov 2009 14:55:31 GMT http://www.osnews.com/images/osnews.gif OSNews.com http://www.osnews.com Pants treated as plural http://osnews.com/thread?313381 http://osnews.com/thread?313381 It is a bit of an oddity. But the term "pants", short for "pantaloons" is, in English, regarded as being plural. Wed, 07 May 2008 23:14:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (sbergman27) Comments RE: Pants treated as plural http://osnews.com/thread?313413 http://osnews.com/thread?313413
It is a bit of an oddity. But the term "pants", short for "pantaloons" is, in English, regarded as being plural.


I think you is taking it way too seriously. Thu, 08 May 2008 02:45:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (umccullough) Comments RE[2]: Pants treated as plural http://osnews.com/thread?313414 http://osnews.com/thread?313414 No. Not at all. My post was not intended as a complaint or nitpick, but to convey information which I thought might be interesting and helpful to a nonnative English speaker interested in languages.

However, this is one comic that I didn't laugh at. Not because I think it is bad, but because the topic of SCO is so old and worn out. I think someone compared it to the monster in the horror B movie that just wont die, and I have to agree with the sentiment.

Edit: How about "Darl McBride vs The Eveready Bunny" for a B movie title? ;-)Edited 2008-05-08 02:57 UTC Thu, 08 May 2008 02:55:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (sbergman27) Comments RE[3]: Pants treated as plural http://osnews.com/thread?313461 http://osnews.com/thread?313461 No. Not at all. My post was not intended as a complaint or nitpick, but to convey information which I thought might be interesting and helpful to a nonnative English speaker interested in languages.

Atleast I do appreciate all these insights and I find them very interesting. I have always been interested in learning languages and I just have some natural talent for it. Actually, everyone in my family has been fast at picking up new languages. Anyways, I do say "pants are" but I too have noticed some US-originated citizens tend to say it as "pants is". Thu, 08 May 2008 11:30:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (WereCatf) Comments RE[4]: Pants treated as plural http://osnews.com/thread?313462 http://osnews.com/thread?313462 I suppose it has something to do with pants having two "pant legs". Then a again, a shirt has two arms, and a brassiere usually[1] has two cups. But still, as a whole, it does not really make sense to to me to treat "pants" as plural... unless you cut them in half with scissors. But then you have another problem, because "scissors" is also treated as plural.

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minor_characters_from_The_Hitchhiker~*... Edited 2008-05-08 11:50 UTC Thu, 08 May 2008 11:48:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (sbergman27) Comments pants / trousers http://osnews.com/thread?313463 http://osnews.com/thread?313463 Also worth bearing in mind: 'pants' means 'underwear' to Commonwealth English speakers (but is still plural). We exclusively use the word 'trousers' for the visible full-leg article of clothing.

Another note to US-English speakers: *please* avoid use of the word 'fanny' to anyone outside North America! Thu, 08 May 2008 12:02:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (giddie) Comments RE: pants / trousers http://osnews.com/thread?313465 http://osnews.com/thread?313465 Also worth bearing in mind: 'pants' means 'underwear' to Commonwealth English speakers (but is still plural). We exclusively use the word 'trousers' for the visible full-leg article of clothing.

That is a distinction I wasn't aware. I have always used 'pants' when I have been talking about 'trousers'. So, thank you for the note, I shall try to remember it ;) (I am still trying to hone my english language skills. There are so many subtle little things everywhere to remember ;) But, care to explain what does 'fanny' mean? ;) Thu, 08 May 2008 12:11:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (WereCatf) Comments RE[2]: pants / trousers http://osnews.com/thread?313473 http://osnews.com/thread?313473 In the UK at least it's slang for vagina I believe. Thu, 08 May 2008 12:57:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (anevilyak) Comments RE[4]: Pants treated as plural http://osnews.com/thread?313492 http://osnews.com/thread?313492
No. Not at all. My post was not intended as a complaint or nitpick, but to convey information which I thought might be interesting and helpful to a nonnative English speaker interested in languages.


I really appreciate that. I am always happy when someone corrects my "four-year old boy" English ;) Thu, 08 May 2008 14:36:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (ebasconp) Comments RE[2]: pants / trousers http://osnews.com/thread?313496 http://osnews.com/thread?313496 In the US, the word 'fanny' refers to the 'rear end'.

Oh, and I've always figured that pants was considered plural because it ends in 's'. I know that's not a very good rule, though, because there are plenty of exceptions (There's a good English rule!). I just haven't been able to think of a better reason!Edited 2008-05-08 15:44 UTC Thu, 08 May 2008 15:41:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (rft183) Comments RE[4]: Pants treated as plural http://osnews.com/thread?313497 http://osnews.com/thread?313497
No. Not at all. My post was not intended as a complaint or nitpick, but to convey information which I thought might be interesting and helpful to a nonnative English speaker interested in languages.

Atleast I do appreciate all these insights and I find them very interesting. I have always been interested in learning languages and I just have some natural talent for it. Actually, everyone in my family has been fast at picking up new languages. Anyways, I do say "pants are" but I too have noticed some US-originated citizens tend to say it as "pants is".


I guess it falls under the same sort of reason why those of the 'commonwealth' (NZ, Aussie, UK and possibly Canada) tend to refer to a organisation and use are, "Microsoft are a large organisation" - are being used in terms of plurality, meaning, the plurality of the components which make it up. In the case of pants - "your pants are on fire", and when referring to pants its quite normal to say, "I own a pair of black pants".

Then again, it is like the use of an before a word beginning with a vowel "an apple" whilst at the same time using an even though the word doesn't start with a vowel but sounds strange if 'a' is used. When is is used instead of are, in respects to pants, it just doesn't sound right and the sentence doesn't flow - it sounds disjointed.Edited 2008-05-08 15:44 UTC Thu, 08 May 2008 15:43:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (kaiwai) Comments RE[5]: Pants treated as plural http://osnews.com/thread?313502 http://osnews.com/thread?313502 It comes from the French aswell [as in the plurality of "pants"], les pantalons but I'm afraid my German is somewhat lacking.

Another interesting one is data which can, of course, be singular and plural (especially when used in physics).Edited 2008-05-08 17:31 UTC Thu, 08 May 2008 17:31:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (AndyM103) Comments RE[3]: pants / trousers http://osnews.com/thread?313505 http://osnews.com/thread?313505 Not only does "fanny" mean "rear end" in the US, but it's considered a very innocuous, and even childish word. It's also antiquated, and not in wide use anymore, which should come as a relief to horrified Brits. Thu, 08 May 2008 18:09:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (David) Comments RE[4]: pants / trousers http://osnews.com/thread?313509 http://osnews.com/thread?313509 This is why it is all the more important for us in the US to bring about the demise of the fanny pack! Thu, 08 May 2008 18:35:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (atriq) Comments RE[5]: Pants treated as plural http://osnews.com/thread?313510 http://osnews.com/thread?313510
I guess it falls under the same sort of reason why those of the 'commonwealth' (NZ, Aussie, UK and possibly Canada) tend to refer to a organisation and use are, "Microsoft are a large organisation" - are being used in terms of plurality, meaning, the plurality of the components which make it up.


It differs per language. You can either determine plurality by looking at the meaning of the word in question, or by looking at the grammatical structure of the word. For instance, it's "a number of people ARE" in English, even though the subject ("a number of people") is grammatically singular. In Dutch, you get "een aantal mensen IS" (is = is), exactly because the subject is grammatically singular.

Another fun case is the notation of percentages. In English, you say "50% of people are", while in Dutch, you say "50% van de mensen is", simply because a percentage might be plural in meaning, it's still singular grammatically. This is actually something even native Dutch speaker struggle with. Thu, 08 May 2008 18:41:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Thom_Holwerda) Comments RE[5]: pants / trousers http://osnews.com/thread?313511 http://osnews.com/thread?313511 So true. That's about the only remaining common usage of the term, and it's truly very unfortunate, and a very unfortunate fashion statement as well. I just with people would call them "belt packs." Thu, 08 May 2008 18:53:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (David) Comments RE[5]: pants / trousers http://osnews.com/thread?313518 http://osnews.com/thread?313518 Here in the US a pussy is usually not a cat. A biscuit is a cookie, and a scone is a biscuit.

Oh, and we don't use stones as a weight measurement. Thu, 08 May 2008 19:47:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (mikesum32) Comments RE[6]: pants / trousers http://osnews.com/thread?313519 http://osnews.com/thread?313519
This is why it is all the more important for us in the US to bring about the demise of the fanny pack!

That's about the only remaining common usage of the term, and it's truly very unfortunate, and a very unfortunate fashion statement as well.

This (my) post is so tasteless I can't believe I'm doing it. But this is Focus Shift, so what the hell! One down. How many to go? ;-)

http://tinyurl.com/332q8x


Edit: But on a more somber note... look at the name of that jpeg.Edited 2008-05-08 20:13 UTC Thu, 08 May 2008 20:04:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (sbergman27) Comments RE[5]: Pants treated as plural http://osnews.com/thread?313571 http://osnews.com/thread?313571

I guess it falls under the same sort of reason why those of the 'commonwealth' (NZ, Aussie, UK and possibly Canada) tend to refer to a organisation and use are, "Microsoft are a large organisation" - are being used in terms of plurality, meaning, the plurality of the components which make it up.


Actually, here in the UK, it is much more normal to say "Microsoft IS a large organisation", (although the "are" form is not unheard of) however, if we talk about the activities of said organisation, we might say "Microsoft ARE working on X, Y and Z". In addition these would be "their" activities.

Basically, when speaking about a collective in an abstract way, referring the the collective itself, it can be referred to as singular, since we are talking about one collective, however, when using the name of the collective as shorthand for it's members, plural is used, so "Microsoft is a large organisation", but "Microsoft are developing Windows 7".

IMHO, I am not a language expert. Fri, 09 May 2008 08:00:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (mallard) Comments RE[6]: Pants treated as plural http://osnews.com/thread?313601 http://osnews.com/thread?313601 Speaking of Dutch, can you guys get with the program regarding your g's and ch's? Also, your diphthongs digust me. as /2y/ or whatever it is; as /Ej/? Finish the damn vowel shift already! Fri, 09 May 2008 14:30:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (siride) Comments RE[6]: pants / trousers http://osnews.com/thread?313639 http://osnews.com/thread?313639
Here in the US a pussy is usually not a cat. A biscuit is a cookie, and a scone is a biscuit.

Oh, and we don't use stones as a weight measurement.


In the US a biscuit is a light and fluffy mini thing that are drenched in white gravy or used in breakfast sandwiches.

I've never heard an American refer to a cookie as a biscuit... Fri, 09 May 2008 18:42:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (aesiamun) Comments RE[6]: Pants treated as plural http://osnews.com/thread?313797 http://osnews.com/thread?313797 It comes from the French aswell [as in the plurality of "pants"], les pantalons

Although it may originaly be a plural word, we (french people) do say "un pantalon", so no plural here... Sun, 11 May 2008 14:44:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Kyuubu) Comments RE[5]: pants / trousers http://osnews.com/thread?313826 http://osnews.com/thread?313826 Another big one to change the name (and how it is used) is that if you wear it on the fanny, you set yourself up for a much greater chance of having it robbed blind by pickpockets (let's create a new term for specialized ones, "pickfannys") because they're so insecure, if you've not locked it somehow.

I've been known in the past to use one for carrying my wallet/keys/necessities to my reality while on runs, but not facing backwards. Thus, it'd more accurately be called ... well, let's not go there ;)

Never buy fish from a salesman wearing a codpiece! ;) Mon, 12 May 2008 07:06:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (JonathanBThompson) Comments huh http://osnews.com/thread?313832 http://osnews.com/thread?313832 these comics are universally not funny

why not link to some real comics? Mon, 12 May 2008 09:50:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (primelight@live.com) Comments