OSNews: http://www.osnews.com/story/19849/SkyOS_Adds_Native_Mail_Client Exploring the Future of Computing en-us Copyright 2001-2009, David Adams adam+nospam@osnews.com Tue, 10 Nov 2009 10:35:05 GMT http://www.osnews.com/images/osnews.gif OSNews.com http://www.osnews.com helf http://osnews.com/thread?318165 http://osnews.com/thread?318165 Sounds a lot like using email in BeOS ;) Wed, 11 Jun 2008 14:06:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (helf) Comments Release it http://osnews.com/thread?318173 http://osnews.com/thread?318173 Release the damn thing once and for all.

Indeed is amazing the product but for God Sake release a final version and later if you (Robert) would like with yet another beta cycle it will be just fine, but are less a real version and non-beta version.

Just Gmail has remained beta as SkyOS.

:-) Wed, 11 Jun 2008 15:12:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Nehemoth) Comments maildir http://osnews.com/thread?318178 http://osnews.com/thread?318178 For instance, all mails are stored as separate files with various attributes attach to it.

So... they reinvented maildir? Wed, 11 Jun 2008 15:36:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Sodki) Comments RE: maildir http://osnews.com/thread?318181 http://osnews.com/thread?318181 No they reinvented the BeOS way.
Maildir is just an edulcorated copy of what BeOS has been using for a decade, without the indexed xattrs. Wed, 11 Jun 2008 16:00:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (mmu_man) Comments RE[2]: maildir http://osnews.com/thread?318183 http://osnews.com/thread?318183 Yeah, the storage is very similar to what BeOS does, as well as the way attributes and indexes are used.

From the API point of view I'm not sure if the BeOS API had/has all the Mail related classes right in the API too. (which makes writing new apps with support for sending/receiving/managing mails and the user created mailboxes quite easy).

Anyway, BeOS stores and handles mails in a very efficient way (from the user point of view), it would be a shame not to "reinvent" it for other systems.Edited 2008-06-11 16:43 UTC Wed, 11 Jun 2008 16:25:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Robert) Comments RE[3]: maildir http://osnews.com/thread?318187 http://osnews.com/thread?318187 I've always like the BeOS way. Glad to see something mostly the same in SkyOS ;)

I really should fork out the cash for the beta... ;) Wed, 11 Jun 2008 16:43:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (helf) Comments RE[2]: maildir http://osnews.com/thread?318193 http://osnews.com/thread?318193 Unless the SkyOS filesystem mimics BFS, it is not really the BeOS way. BFS worked in parallel with a database, which gave the filesystem the flexibility to do things like sort mail. Can anyone with a greater knowledge of SkyOS['s filesystem] enlighten me? Wed, 11 Jun 2008 17:37:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Worloch) Comments RE[3]: maildir http://osnews.com/thread?318196 http://osnews.com/thread?318196 it doesn't only mimic BeFS, it's using a derivative of openBeFS

and I hope that robert coordinates his efforts with the haiku-team.
would be great if both stored mails the same wayEdited 2008-06-11 17:57 UTC Wed, 11 Jun 2008 17:55:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (smashIt) Comments RE[3]: maildir http://osnews.com/thread?318199 http://osnews.com/thread?318199 Well, BFS didn't work in parallel with a database, but BFS is more or less "the database" itself. But you a right if you talked about SkyOS which in addition to the filesystem "database" also uses a SQL based database to fully index file content too. Wed, 11 Jun 2008 18:08:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Robert) Comments RE[4]: maildir http://osnews.com/thread?318201 http://osnews.com/thread?318201
Well, BFS didn't work in parallel with a database, but BFS is more or less "the database" itself.


I believe the initial filesystem of BeOS was more or less like that, but it probably wasn't called BFS then either I don't think.

I believe it was eventually dubbed something like "OFS" (and included as a filesystem add-on for later versions of BeOS to be able to read still).

But that's pretty much before my time using BeOS, so I'm just regurgitating what I've heard/read. Wed, 11 Jun 2008 18:22:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (umccullough) Comments RE[5]: maildir http://osnews.com/thread?318211 http://osnews.com/thread?318211 this article talks a bit about BeOSs first "fs"

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2002/03/29/windows_on_a_database_slice... Wed, 11 Jun 2008 19:54:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (helf) Comments RE[4]: maildir http://osnews.com/thread?318221 http://osnews.com/thread?318221 So SkyOS does use a database in a similar way to BeOS? Perhaps it's time I give SkyOS a try, I've been meaning to for while. Wed, 11 Jun 2008 21:08:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Worloch) Comments RE[5]: maildir http://osnews.com/thread?318233 http://osnews.com/thread?318233 the filesystem in BeOS is capable of keeping metadata and indexing files.

The database in skyos adds indexing of file content (for some specific file types) to that. Wed, 11 Jun 2008 22:14:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Darkness) Comments RE[2]: maildir http://osnews.com/thread?318257 http://osnews.com/thread?318257 Considering Maildir has been around as long as BeOS has, I highly doubt DJB copied from BeOS' method. If anything it's coincidental timing. Thu, 12 Jun 2008 03:40:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (spinjax) Comments clone http://osnews.com/thread?318314 http://osnews.com/thread?318314 The filesystem in SkyOS IS the OpenBeOS file system adapted to SkyOS. It should look a lot like the old BeOS way!

I just hope RS willingly works with the Haiku devs as he earlier said he would.Edited 2008-06-12 15:19 UTC Thu, 12 Jun 2008 15:18:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (DLazlo) Comments RE: helf http://osnews.com/thread?318331 http://osnews.com/thread?318331 As far as I can see from the screenshots presented, the Mail application seems to contain a HTML renderer, too:

http://www.skyos.org/images/temp/2.png

So it's much more than a mail client, cool! :-) (Okay, HTML and mails... well, this is... I won't go into detail, you can imagine what I would say.)

The storage representation of the mails - separate files - reminds me to the MH format mailboxes (in opposite to the mbox format) which is for example used by the Sylpheed mail client. You can of course see advantages and disadvantages in this MH like format, but personally, I prefer single files over fat message conglomerates.

Sorry, I don't know about BeOS and SkyOS to make a statement of higher inner values... :-) Thu, 12 Jun 2008 19:07:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Doc Pain) Comments *YAWN* http://osnews.com/thread?318340 http://osnews.com/thread?318340 SkyOS still not available for general release, film at eleven....

--bornagainpenguin Thu, 12 Jun 2008 22:35:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (bornagainenguin) Comments RE[6]: maildir http://osnews.com/thread?318343 http://osnews.com/thread?318343 That is a great read - thanks for posting it! A post-Be interview with Dominic and Benoit, can't believe I managed to miss that. Thu, 12 Jun 2008 22:50:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (StephenBeDoper) Comments RE[2]: helf http://osnews.com/thread?318393 http://osnews.com/thread?318393 the html renderer is an integrated GUI component that uses the gecko engine. Any skyos application can embed this component just like if it was a textfield or listbox. Fri, 13 Jun 2008 13:54:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Darkness) Comments RE[3]: maildir http://osnews.com/thread?318408 http://osnews.com/thread?318408
Considering Maildir has been around as long as BeOS has, I highly doubt DJB copied from BeOS' method. If anything it's coincidental timing.


Maildir and BeOS/Haiku and now SkyOS all use the same one mail, one file design, true. Dunno who did it first for sure, though.

But where Maildir moves email/file from tmp to new to cur sub-folder, BeOS/Haiku/SkyOS simply takes advantage of BFS built-in attributes and indexes features: they changes attribute value and that all. That way, no emails/files moves behind your back *ever*. Fri, 13 Jun 2008 16:27:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (phoudoin) Comments RE[3]: maildir http://osnews.com/thread?318409 http://osnews.com/thread?318409
From the API point of view I'm not sure if the BeOS API had/has all the Mail related classes right in the API too. (which makes writing new apps with support for sending/receiving/managing mails and the user created mailboxes quite easy).


Yes, it does. The Mail Kit exposes BMailMessage & co API so developers could use the mail system in a system-wide consistent (and easy) way. Fri, 13 Jun 2008 16:30:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (phoudoin) Comments