OSNews:

OSNews: http://www.osnews.com/story/20339/Hockenberry_App_Store_Policies_Killing_Our_Enthusiasm_ Exploring the Future of Computing en-us Copyright 2001-2009, David Adams adam+nospam@osnews.com Wed, 25 Nov 2009 11:47:36 GMT http://www.osnews.com/images/osnews.gif OSNews.com http://www.osnews.com about damn time... http://osnews.com/thread?331835 http://osnews.com/thread?331835 that people start to see what apple is all about these days...

long gone are the generic expansion ports of appleII... Mon, 29 Sep 2008 13:25:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (hobgoblin) Comments seems familiar.... http://osnews.com/thread?331837 http://osnews.com/thread?331837 All your phones belong to Steve. Your just paying for a license for the experience of owning one. Mon, 29 Sep 2008 13:51:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (TechGeek) Comments RE: seems familiar.... http://osnews.com/thread?331840 http://osnews.com/thread?331840 i suspect they would love to pull something similar on osx, at least on the consumer directed ones... Mon, 29 Sep 2008 14:19:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (hobgoblin) Comments Apple's same old problem http://osnews.com/thread?331841 http://osnews.com/thread?331841 Apple has always been too demanding and restrictive. The iPhone killer maybe its own app store if this keeps up.

I actually grabbed the development kit. Never really worked with it, reading the documentation and general feel of the SDK always gave me a "hacker's not welcome" feeling. And I don't mean the viruses and rootkits type hackers, I mean the, "invent the next generation of cool stuff" type hackers. The rejection notes and NDAs only shores up this feeling.Edited 2008-09-29 14:29 UTC Mon, 29 Sep 2008 14:22:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (ShadesFox) Comments What is there to Understand? http://osnews.com/thread?331843 http://osnews.com/thread?331843 Apple doesn't like developers. I've said that before around here, and it has long been a part of Apple's make-up. From their lack of effort in development tools for external developers to their policies, they simply don't want you.

If you create an application that infringes on what the big Apple applications are doing, especially stuff like iTunes, they are going to get you shut down by any means. Stop trying to make money for Apple by expanding their market by developing applications for their platform. Apple do not get this. It's a big reason why Mac OS usage remained small, and why when Apple gets first to market with something they are always on to a loser in the long-term because they cannot maintain their market share. Mon, 29 Sep 2008 14:50:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (segedunum) Comments Comment by Buck http://osnews.com/thread?331847 http://osnews.com/thread?331847 I trust it will all end when all those whiny developers whose ideas are not compatible with appstore policies quit. People want it to be the next Jesus Mobile Christ when in reality it's not. The time whining and banging against the wall could be better spent developing for many other fine mobile platforms. Mon, 29 Sep 2008 15:14:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Buck) Comments also http://osnews.com/thread?331851 http://osnews.com/thread?331851 what's wrong with folks constantly using Woz as an example? He's old, he's stale, the eighties are so over! Yet people still try to live in that utopia. Mon, 29 Sep 2008 15:39:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Buck) Comments App Store Policies 'Killing Our Enthusiasm' http://osnews.com/thread?331857 http://osnews.com/thread?331857 App Store Policies 'Killing Our Enthusiasm'

It isn't killing mine. But then I'm not an idiot that doesn't read the licensing agreement as to what Apple will and will not accept. It is CLEARLY stated in Apple's licensing agreement. If you are an idiot and spend lots of time creating an app that Apple clearly will not accept. Then you are an idiot. Mon, 29 Sep 2008 16:29:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Sabon) Comments RE: App Store Policies 'Killing Our Enthusiasm' http://osnews.com/thread?331859 http://osnews.com/thread?331859 Dude, you just used up all the kool-aid in the world right there. Mon, 29 Sep 2008 16:40:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Thom_Holwerda) Comments RE: also http://osnews.com/thread?331861 http://osnews.com/thread?331861 people will always grasp for the utopia.

and woz is more then a person, he is a idea. the idea that anyone can build their own system if they put their mind to it, and allow it to be open for anyone to improve on. Mon, 29 Sep 2008 16:48:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (hobgoblin) Comments RE[2]: App Store Policies 'Killing Our Enthusiasm' http://osnews.com/thread?331865 http://osnews.com/thread?331865 I don't think it's unreasonable to point out that if Apple specifically states that it won't support certain kinds of apps, then it's foolish to get outraged when they won't support your app.

Where there's a problem is when Apple isn't explicit about it, and gives you a surprise.

And of course, there's nothing wrong with having a general feeling of outrage about this whole business. I spend a few minutes every day being outraged and disappointed about Apple's iPhone strategy. Mon, 29 Sep 2008 17:20:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (David) Comments RE: App Store Policies 'Killing Our Enthusiasm' http://osnews.com/thread?331867 http://osnews.com/thread?331867 It never fails; there's always someone that will defend absurdity. Mon, 29 Sep 2008 17:29:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (rajj) Comments Idiot? http://osnews.com/thread?331868 http://osnews.com/thread?331868 "Then you are an idiot."

...really? For not conforming to specs which are not made clear? Oh yes, these MUST surely be idiots...

...after all, they're developing Apple software.

A Haiku for Apple:

It cost me so much,
this big fruit-named computer;
Man, I'm a sucker! Mon, 29 Sep 2008 17:53:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (JacobMunoz) Comments Lack of effort on development tools? http://osnews.com/thread?331879 http://osnews.com/thread?331879 Xcode is pretty good; whats not to like about the interface builder; and objective C is quite nice; so are the huge and varied frameworks installed for you.
Some lack of effort on development tools.
They just about write the code for you.
One thing you can say about Apple is they give developers excellent tools for free.
Remember when your program had to animate the close box itself? Mon, 29 Sep 2008 20:00:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (alban) Comments RE[3]: App Store Policies 'Killing Our Enthusiasm' http://osnews.com/thread?331880 http://osnews.com/thread?331880

I spend a few minutes every day being outraged and disappointed about Apple's iPhone strategy.

Exactly! Mon, 29 Sep 2008 20:01:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Buck) Comments RE: App Store Policies 'Killing Our Enthusiasm' http://osnews.com/thread?331881 http://osnews.com/thread?331881

If you are an idiot and spend lots of time creating an app that Apple clearly will not accept. Then you are an idiot.

So true!:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tautology_(logic)
Section: tautological implication

Sorry, I couldn't resist ;D Mon, 29 Sep 2008 20:12:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (wannabe geek) Comments RE: What is there to Understand? http://osnews.com/thread?331885 http://osnews.com/thread?331885

Apple doesn't like developers. I've said that before around here, and it has long been a part of Apple's make-up. From their lack of effort in development tools for external developers to their policies, they simply don't want you.

You nailed it, and it's this attitude that will further cement them as such a niche product. Microsoft (love them or hate them) is very developer friendly, and it's because of them openly embracing developers that Windows (as a platform) has flourished so much over the years.

The fact that a developer has to PAY APPLE to release their apps in the iStore is beyond ludicrous. It almost makes me ashamed that I even own an iPod touch. It's such an arrogant mindset to have. If enough would-be developers jump ship, perhaps they'll get the message. One of them just might be the one who would've written the next killer iApp that would make the iPhone a must-own device. Mon, 29 Sep 2008 22:17:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (jayson.knight) Comments RE[2]: What is there to Understand? http://osnews.com/thread?331887 http://osnews.com/thread?331887 Agreed. As much of a Mac person as I am--and I must say that the Mac platform is very developer friendly--this whole iPhone ridiculousness leaves me shaking my head. It would be one thing if Apple was specific about what apps will or won't be accepted and held to those policies. I'm not sure what they think they'll accomplish with this current state of affairs except to piss people off, though. I do think that developers having to pay a bit to release their apps via the app store makes sense, as Apple has to keep the app store up and running and the funds for that have to come from somewhere. What is ridiculous is that, short of jailbreaking, the app store is the *only* way to get apps on the iPhone and that's what get me. It would be different if you could just download any app like you can on a computer, or just about every other mobile platform out there. This latest episode with having rejections covered under NDA is just beyond insane. I just hope they learn their lesson from it all--the hard way, if that's how it ends up turning out. Sometimes I think that Apple is a bipolar company, having rapid swings from brilliance to insanity and back again faster than you can blink an eye. On one hand we have OS X, on the other we have the iPhone app store. It's certainly entertaining and maddening at the same time. Mon, 29 Sep 2008 22:42:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (darknexus) Comments RE[2]: also http://osnews.com/thread?331890 http://osnews.com/thread?331890 and Woz is bullet proof. Mon, 29 Sep 2008 23:10:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (helf) Comments RE[3]: What is there to Understand? http://osnews.com/thread?331892 http://osnews.com/thread?331892

I do think that developers having to pay a bit to release their apps via the app store makes sense, as Apple has to keep the app store up and running and the funds for that have to come from somewhere.

Let's see... Where could Apple possibly come up with a revenue stream to maintain the iPhone App Store functioning well enough to effectively provide iPhone apps for the iPhone to owners of iPhones? An iBake Sale, maybe?Edited 2008-09-29 23:32 UTC Mon, 29 Sep 2008 23:27:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (sbergman27) Comments RE[3]: also http://osnews.com/thread?331895 http://osnews.com/thread?331895 nah, just insanely lucky. see plane crash

Mon, 29 Sep 2008 23:36:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (hobgoblin) Comments RE[3]: App Store Policies 'Killing Our Enthusiasm' http://osnews.com/thread?331897 http://osnews.com/thread?331897 did apple ever specify what kinds of apps, or did they just reserve the right to deny any app access to the store on a whim? Mon, 29 Sep 2008 23:39:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (hobgoblin) Comments Apple Lost My Good Will http://osnews.com/thread?331899 http://osnews.com/thread?331899 I got my first Apple product in March 2007 - a Macbook. The price was competitive and I was curious. Due to my positive experience, Apple could have gained a long-term customer. However, in the span of several months, they managed to push me farther than when I had not purchased any Apple products.

Coming from Linux, Apple's authoritarian and controlling behavior is appalling. Having a gag order on the free SDK was the first slap in the face but it did not push me over the edge. Rejecting programs simply because they compete with Apple's is a step too far. Putting an NDA even on rejection letters is an indication of madness and totally against the purpose of NDAs (to protect trade secrets). It reminds me of China's conclusion that journalists are the problem, not human rights violations. Apple knows it's abusing its power and not doing any services for its customers. It just doesn't want the negative press. It will backfire. Tue, 30 Sep 2008 01:44:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (exigentsky) Comments RE[2]: What is there to Understand? http://osnews.com/thread?331900 http://osnews.com/thread?331900 Sorry, but that is Bullshit.
Appstore is the least expensive (for the developer) store to sell mobile apps. On other Mobile app portals you normally get around 30% or less of sales price. I can't manage to see how getting 70% is a ripoff in comparison. You don't really want to compare to Desktop markets, right? Only a tiny fraction of mobile phone apps are not bought through portals. Tue, 30 Sep 2008 01:49:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Alleister) Comments RE[4]: What is there to Understand? http://osnews.com/thread?331901 http://osnews.com/thread?331901 "Let's see... Where could Apple possibly come up with a revenue stream to maintain the iPhone App Store functioning well enough to effectively provide iPhone apps for the iPhone to owners of iPhones? An iBake Sale, maybe?"

Good idea! Maybe they will have iCookies for the iPhone... Tue, 30 Sep 2008 02:18:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (DrillSgt) Comments RE[3]: What is there to Understand? http://osnews.com/thread?331903 http://osnews.com/thread?331903

This needs to be a cost that is absorbed by them, plain and simple. This is a textbook definition of bilking: Apple says "you can only use our platform to distribute your apps, and on top of that, you have to pay for it." That would be like Adobe having to pay Microsoft to use a Microsoft sanctioned distribution channel so that they can sell Photoshop.

Apple's control freakishness nature is outlandish. Their stock is through the roof lately. To basically haggle over what amounts to pennies to them is insanity at its best. Tue, 30 Sep 2008 03:42:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (jayson.knight) Comments RE[4]: What is there to Understand? http://osnews.com/thread?331910 http://osnews.com/thread?331910

In the current situation, I actually agree with you. I said that I believe it makes sense for developers to pay for distributing through the app store, but not if the app store is the _only_ method of getting apps to the platform. That is indeed insanity and I'd go so far as to describe it as blackmail (you do what we want, or you get nothing). That's why I believe that in regards to the iPhone Apple needs to learn a very valuable lesson. The fact is, though, that Apple wouldn't be able to do this if the vast majority of people didn't bend over and take it. Unfortunately they do.
These dictatorial policies leave me rolling my eyes. It just doesn't make sense from a business standpoint when every other mobile platform is open, but who knows what their motivations really are. I'd like to know, but I suppose that's about as likely as Linux becoming a unified platform--i.e. close to absolute zero. Tue, 30 Sep 2008 04:35:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (darknexus) Comments RE: Apple's same old problem - real hackers http://osnews.com/thread?331925 http://osnews.com/thread?331925 You mean real Hackers in the true and original sense of the title. Thank you for making that distinction. Tue, 30 Sep 2008 12:10:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (jabbotts) Comments RE: Lack of effort on development tools? http://osnews.com/thread?331926 http://osnews.com/thread?331926 Yer, Xcode is undeniably good, but the problem in everything they do from their practices to the focus they put on their development tools and what you're allowed to do with them is that if you develop something that competes with Apple they get paranoid. In reality they shouldn't, because no one will ever be able to get enough traction to compete with iTunes or the main Apple applications, although they might fill niches that expand Apple's userbase and help them sell more iPhones. Tue, 30 Sep 2008 12:14:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (segedunum) Comments RE: also - hey now.. be good to the Woz http://osnews.com/thread?331927 http://osnews.com/thread?331927 He is too hardware design what Steve is to marketing. I've no love of Apple but Woz has earned his place in Hacker history. That's an original member of the computer homebrew club your talking about. Tue, 30 Sep 2008 12:15:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (jabbotts) Comments RE[2]: What is there to Understand? http://osnews.com/thread?331979 http://osnews.com/thread?331979

Not only that. Microsoft is so developers friendly that they have an history of staying away from specific software markets not to affect its developers. That's why in many cases you need 3rdy-party tools to achieve specific functionalities. Couldn't Microsoft develop an A/V software or other tools? Why you have Paint and Notepad instead of better tools? Couldn't Microsoft develop a load of games? That's why.

To that, add that Microsoft is actively supporting popular Windows software instead of breaking compatibilities. Since Windows '95, MS is struggling to be sure that popular softwares will be compatible with newer Windows versions. If we dig into AppCompat sub-system we will find loads of surprises. Tue, 30 Sep 2008 22:04:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (TBPrince) Comments RE[2]: What is there to Understand? http://osnews.com/thread?332097 http://osnews.com/thread?332097 Not that I disagree with your basic statement, but I was a DOS/Windows developer for quite a few years, and this part of your statement:

"You nailed it, and it's this attitude that will further cement them as such a niche product. Microsoft (love them or hate them) is very developer friendly, and it's because of them openly embracing developers that Windows (as a platform) has flourished so much over the years."

Is not quite true. Microsoft is very developer friendly, until your product gets above a certain point on their radar, then they will either buy you out, create their own version of your product, or failing that, find some other way to put you out of business.

Sorry, don't mean to change the topic, but I've seen way too many good companies and independent developers get buried by Microsoft. Wed, 01 Oct 2008 20:18:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (DoctorPepper) Comments