OSNews: http://www.osnews.com/story/20386/Microsoft_Releases_Silverlight_2 Exploring the Future of Computing en-us Copyright 2001-2009, David Adams adam+nospam@osnews.com Mon, 09 Nov 2009 12:40:21 GMT http://www.osnews.com/images/osnews.gif OSNews.com http://www.osnews.com Linux support? Bullshit http://osnews.com/thread?333572 http://osnews.com/thread?333572 "Cross-platform and cross-browser support. This includes support for Mac, Windows and Linux in Firefox, Safari and Windows Internet Explorer."

Really? Why is it that the official silverlight website has no mention of Linux at all. Not like Moonlight is compatible with Silverlight yet and probably will never be completely, so can't count that...

In other words, Flash, with all its warts is still the best way to go. Microsoft needs to relinquish control of Silverlight and open-source it. Then they could probably take out Flash fairly quickly. Tue, 14 Oct 2008 04:27:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (leos) Comments The enemy of your enemy is your friend? http://osnews.com/thread?333573 http://osnews.com/thread?333573 I'm sorry, but I will not embrace Silverlight just because it is an alternative to Flash.

The web needs really open standards. Silverlight is very far from that. Microsoft didn't show the needed respect for open standards in the past as well.

Adobe is opening-up with Flash/Flex as well. Perhaps Silverlight's pressure into the market will lead it towards more open-ness. I don't believe that, though, because this was never in MS's interest, even if they play that card right now to get their foot into the door. Tue, 14 Oct 2008 04:30:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Ford Prefect) Comments RE: Linux support? Bullshit http://osnews.com/thread?333579 http://osnews.com/thread?333579 I wouldn't jump to conclusions too quickly. The mono team is pretty amazing. And Microsoft has already open sourced several parts of Silverlight to help their effort (such as the controls). From my understanding, Microsoft has also made available their entire test suite to the mono team to ensure 100% compatibility.

Now having said that, I still feel that Silverlight is way overkill for most web apps. For a company that has a C# client and wants to move it to the web, Silverlight is great. I think it is also unmatched for speed on a rich featured apps (such as games). So, I think this technology will do very well in the enterprise and certain web apps. But I think the "open web" will continue to be far more popular for most generally available websites. And chrome certainly proves how fast javascript can be if implemented well. Flash... well not sure why anyone on Linux would want a buggy closed source app over an well written open one, but Microsoft hate abounds so common sense may not matter. Tue, 14 Oct 2008 05:58:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (jimwmiller) Comments RE[2]: Linux support? Bullshit http://osnews.com/thread?333589 http://osnews.com/thread?333589
And Microsoft has already open sourced several parts of Silverlight to help their effort (such as the controls). From my understanding, Microsoft has also made available their entire test suite to the mono team to ensure 100% compatibility.


This is part of the very problem. It is actually at the heart of the issue.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moonlight_(runtime)#Microsoft_support
"Since shortly after the first demo at MIX 07 in Paris, Microsoft began cooperating with Novell to help the building of Moonlight. Support includes exclusive access given to Novell for the following Silverlight artifacts:

* Microsoft's Test suites for Silverlight,
* Silverlight specification details, beyond those available on the web,
* Binary codecs for Windows Media video and audio, only licensed for use with Moonlight when running in a web browser."


The words "exclusive access" are the heart of the problem. Those words mean "no open source coders beyond Novell". No downstream participants. No open standard, no open development ... indeed, binary codecs, supplied by Microsoft.

Hence, Microsoft control.

Hence, Microsoft can withdraw support, and their permission, on a whim.

Hence, Silverlight is a way for Microsoft to make it a "Microsoft Web", and for Microsoft to put any other party out of competition ... at their whim, whenver they want to.

Hence ... no Silverlight.

Independent thinkers wouldn't touch Silverlight with a ten-foot pole.

It really is pretty simple.Edited 2008-10-14 08:40 UTC Tue, 14 Oct 2008 08:29:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (lemur2) Comments RE[3]: Linux support? Bullshit http://osnews.com/thread?333590 http://osnews.com/thread?333590 Amen.
Well said.
End of story.
And Novel can choke on its Mono and whatever else they come up with. Tue, 14 Oct 2008 09:10:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (shapeshifter) Comments RE: Linux support? Bullshit http://osnews.com/thread?333592 http://osnews.com/thread?333592
Why is it that the official silverlight website has no mention of Linux at all.


Because Microsoft does their Mac and Windows development in-house, but licenses out whatever *nix development they need to third parties? Tue, 14 Oct 2008 09:36:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Almafeta) Comments Now I just wait... http://osnews.com/thread?333593 http://osnews.com/thread?333593 Now I just wait for Silverlight 2 to be released for Visual Studio Express; we were told that the release for VSE was waiting on the final RTM version of Silverlight 2. Tue, 14 Oct 2008 09:38:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Almafeta) Comments RE[3]: Linux support? Bullshit http://osnews.com/thread?333595 http://osnews.com/thread?333595
Independent thinkers wouldn't touch Silverlight with a ten-foot pole.

Yup, independent thinkers will all act as one and follow the dogmatic line, as opposed to deciding for themselves whether or not a product fulfills their need. Tue, 14 Oct 2008 10:03:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (dagw) Comments RE[4]: Linux support? Bullshit http://osnews.com/thread?333597 http://osnews.com/thread?333597 Need goes beyond technical aspects alone... At least in thinking individuals. Tue, 14 Oct 2008 10:27:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (r_a_trip) Comments RE: The enemy of your enemy is your friend? http://osnews.com/thread?333600 http://osnews.com/thread?333600
I'm sorry, but I will not embrace Silverlight just because it is an alternative to Flash.


For the moment it doesn't really matter. Flash is essential for sites such as Youtube. But It remains to be seen whether Silverlight will gain significant market share. Tue, 14 Oct 2008 10:35:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Stephen!) Comments RE[5]: Linux support? Bullshit http://osnews.com/thread?333602 http://osnews.com/thread?333602
Need goes beyond technical aspects alone

Well obviously. But one of the defining qualities of an independent thinker is the ability to come to independent conclusions. Saying all independent thinkers must come to this conclusion to be considered independent seems somewhat silly. I can't believe I actually have to explain this. Tue, 14 Oct 2008 10:59:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (dagw) Comments RE[4]: Linux support? Bullshit http://osnews.com/thread?333604 http://osnews.com/thread?333604
"Independent thinkers wouldn't touch Silverlight with a ten-foot pole.

Yup, independent thinkers will all act as one and follow the dogmatic line, as opposed to deciding for themselves whether or not a product fulfills their need. "

It has precisely nothing to do with "whether or not a product fulfills a need".

It has everything to do with "independence".

If Microsoft gains control over who may and who may not produce some important piece of software ... then Microsoft invariably use that control to eliminate competition.

Therefore, Microsoft must not be allowed to be in a position of control ... especially over something as pervasive as delivery of web content.

Giving Microsoft such control would be roughly akin to the FCC awarding the entire electromagnetic spectrum to just one company to profit from. It is absolutely outrageous to think that any party could be so corrupt as that when it comes to the electromagnetic spectrum ... so why should we even contemplate the rough equivalent when it comes to delivery of digital content via the web? Tue, 14 Oct 2008 11:22:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (lemur2) Comments RE: The enemy of your enemy is your friend? http://osnews.com/thread?333607 http://osnews.com/thread?333607 ++

OTOH, I wonder when google will release its own would-be ubiquitous web multimedia codec just so there can be a proper dick waving contest. At least they control a very large portion of the flash based web time-sink properties so they could add a little carrot to the stick. Tue, 14 Oct 2008 12:38:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (zombie process) Comments RE[3]: Linux support? Bullshit http://osnews.com/thread?333617 http://osnews.com/thread?333617 Can't add anything more to that. That's about the size of it. Open source and non-Windows platform support will continue only as long as Microsoft wants, and you can bet that if Silverlight reaches what they feel is a critical mass of usage you will see non-Microsoft platform support dropped faster than a diarretic camel.

Like a Microsoft manager let slip once, as developers you're being wooed as a one-night stand until they get their wicked way with you ;-).

At this juncture, you will usually get some smart Alec talking about Flash and Adobe. Yep, the situation with Flash is certainly not ideal, but it's a case of who your worst enemy is. At least with Adobe they don't have their own OS and platform to protect, so they're at least going to be committed to keeping Mac and Linux ports of Flash going because they need to keep maximum usage. Tue, 14 Oct 2008 13:26:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (segedunum) Comments RE[6]: Linux support? Bullshit http://osnews.com/thread?333618 http://osnews.com/thread?333618 Well, that is because their are a lot of unstated premises with all of the made statements (mine included). The danger lies in the assumption that others will just pick up on those premises. Tue, 14 Oct 2008 13:30:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (r_a_trip) Comments RE[2]: The enemy of your enemy is your friend? http://osnews.com/thread?333661 http://osnews.com/thread?333661 Google's bet is on the browsers (Ajax or whatever the kids are calling it these days). As for video/audio codecs, I'd hope they'd put their support behind something that can be utilized by the video tag (ogg or matroska container with theora/vorbis/dirac) - for now though they seem content to use Flash Video or whatever else is available on the various platforms (including the patented standard h.264 on iphones from youtube). Tue, 14 Oct 2008 17:35:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (CaptainN-) Comments RE[3]: The enemy of your enemy is your friend? http://osnews.com/thread?333667 http://osnews.com/thread?333667 I think the main reason for Flash usage is that they don't want you to make a copy. Sure it is possible to extract the video stream, but most people don't know how to do it or lack the tools (I heard there is a FF extension). It would be quite trivial to download a raw embedded video though.. Tue, 14 Oct 2008 18:07:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Ford Prefect) Comments RE[6]: Linux support? Bullshit http://osnews.com/thread?333678 http://osnews.com/thread?333678
"Need goes beyond technical aspects alone

Well obviously. But one of the defining qualities of an independent thinker is the ability to come to independent conclusions. Saying all independent thinkers must come to this conclusion to be considered independent seems somewhat silly. I can't believe I actually have to explain this. "

What are you talking about?
Microsoft is evil,
End of story.
What are reasons, independent thinking, logical processess etc. do you need?
1+1=2
Microsft+Evil= Stay away from Silverlight
Gotit? Tue, 14 Oct 2008 19:16:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (shapeshifter) Comments RE: Now I just wait... http://osnews.com/thread?333713 http://osnews.com/thread?333713 will they be shipping interface tools for it? It would be very nice If I could create a silverlight form in a free tool to use with the other free tools MS provides rather than having to buy expression stuff. Tue, 14 Oct 2008 20:48:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (modmans2ndcoming) Comments RE[2]: Now I just wait... http://osnews.com/thread?333784 http://osnews.com/thread?333784 Silverlight for Visual Studio Express has been released earlier yesterday (it's in the "Get Started" part of the Silverlight.net site), and of course it has an interface designer (similar to other VSE GUI designers).

Expression looks like just a more fleshed out tool (the Photoshop to VSE's MSPaint, though maybe closer to Macromedia Flash in interface).

Now the interesting question is whether Moonlight kept up with Silverlight... it'll be fairly easy to test either way.Edited 2008-10-15 05:43 UTC Wed, 15 Oct 2008 05:40:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Almafeta) Comments RE[2]: Linux support? Bullshit http://osnews.com/thread?333854 http://osnews.com/thread?333854
"Why is it that the official silverlight website has no mention of Linux at all.


Because Microsoft does their Mac and Windows development in-house, but licenses out whatever *nix development they need to third parties? "

That's fine, but if they were serious about supporting Linux they would point to the moonlight site and tell people to get that. The fact that they don't shows that they like to have Moonlight to point to if anyone questions their cross-platformness, but don't have any intention of encouraging people to actually use it or making sure it is actually on par with the other platforms.

Flash is buggy and closed source, but Adobe has no interest in competing with Linux, so it is still infinitely better than Silverlight. Wed, 15 Oct 2008 15:53:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (leos) Comments RE[4]: Linux support? Bullshit http://osnews.com/thread?334101 http://osnews.com/thread?334101 Best. Comment. Ever. Fri, 17 Oct 2008 19:27:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (helf) Comments Why is it... http://osnews.com/thread?334103 http://osnews.com/thread?334103 wrong article it seems...Edited 2008-10-17 19:43 UTC Fri, 17 Oct 2008 19:38:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (helf) Comments