Bespin is an experimental in-browser text/source-editor created by Mozilla Labs. Using any modern web browser (that means no IE, obviously), you can edit your projects from any computer, or with the added flexibility of the web – such as online collaboration, decentralisation, and extensibility. Read more for Kroc’s review.
Bespin is without question one of those “Wouldn’t it be great” ideas. Wouldn’t it be great to be able to edit code, in a decent editor, from anywhere, just using a browser? Yes it would; but I have to say, most “wouldn’t it be great” ideas are spur-of-the-moment things, and the finer details have to be worked out over time. I certainly have reservations which I will proceed to address.
However, on a more positive note – webmail was a previously successful “wouldn’t it be great” idea. Wouldn’t it be great to–instead of being tied to a local client–be able to get your email from anywhere, using a browser? And lo, it was a great idea. But there was one flaw, that still persists to today — email links on webpages still open in the local client, instead of the webmail site. It’s possible to fix this, but it’s not a given, and this problem plagues regular users constantly.
You, our astute readers do not need to be told what Bespin is, or for me to regurgitate the linked article (which no doubt was already in it’s own tab before you read up to here). I therefore am going to moan. Well, not so much moan but more so raise points of discussion that try go beyond the obvious. Reiterating how great something is doesn’t solve problems, just as much as the person who came up with the idea of “webmail” got so far, before realising – ‘oh, I hadn’t thought of that’.
And that forms the basis of my reservations about Bespin. It’s a great idea, but it will, for always, lack the deep system integration of a local client. How do you open-with a website? The upload barrier exists.
Maybe this will not matter so much as we move toward storing everything in the cloud – and therefore do not need an ‘open with’ on our local filesystem when, for portability’s sake, our projects are in the cloud.
But a project is more than just a bit of HTML, isn’t it. A project is images–lots of them. A project is build scripts, build systems even. How are you going to juggle remote accessing text files, but needing to execute them too? No, it would be naive to think that Bespin will ever mean you can ditch TextMate or BBedit. However, it’s idiotic for me to think that Bespin is even supposed to be a replacement for a text editor —
Bespin may edit text, but it is not in competition with text editors,
Bespin is about flexibility extending beyond capability.
Would it not be lovely to get rid of a lot of the FTP cycling for the sake of modifying a few lines of code? What also, the benefits of simplifying your toolchain and the environment you have to manage locally if the editing can be done via the same server the code is running on?
An API sitting on top of an API, sitting on top of an API is painful; and browsers are notorious for requiring very unpleasant hacks and more effort than is necessary for sometime simple things.
The developers have had to resort to reimplementing a text-box, blinking cursor and all, in Canvas in order to achieve the speed and flexibility needed. Even the scrollbars are Canvas. The DOM is simply too slow, and too broken, to even consider.
Now does this level of hackery mean that Bespin is somehow more complicated, more unmanageable a piece of software than a native application? Let’s remind ourselves that TextMate’s editor is entirely custom, sub-classed right down to the metal because nothing in OS X was capable enough.
The main difference though is that the web browser is already one application you have to deal with before coming to the web app. The web browser presents a slew of horrendous problems for text editors:
- Many shortcuts already used, unavailable or integrate poorly. (For example Close tab / window / app)
- Backspacepwn / tabpwn / enterpwn &c.
- Memory usage
- Screen real-estate
- Stability (TextMate never crashes)
I have to ask myself – it’s a great idea, but do I really want to edit text in a browser — probably the most inappropriate host for a serious app?
It’s only inappropriate if you don’t treat the web browser, like a web browser. This is where I think I can trust Mozilla. When a web app tries to be an OS, it invariably fails.
A good web app must embrace the browser and live in symbiosis with it. What Mozilla have done thus far, for an 0.1, is therefore very impressive, and very excitement-inducing. It’s not like this idea hasn’t been invented before, that’s not it, but it’s more that this idea is being tackled now, instead of remaining one big what if.
I look forward to the creativity everybody other than Mozilla contributes to Bespin, and the direction and oversight Mozilla gives that.
- Pros
-
- New paradigm, new things to explore
- Simplifies/removes the painful FTP bridge with many projects
- Portability!
- Cons
-
- System integration is never going to happen. Twice the pain of Eclipse
- The browser gets in the way of the web app
- Lack of Unix-level integration / executability [yet] – I like my TextMate
I agree with the problems of using a text editor that is inside the browser, but some of the problems can be easily overcome with minor tweaks.
Many shortcuts already used:
I am sure the webpage can override some of the shortcuts used by the browser. For eg: Gmail overrides the ‘/’ with its mail search instead of Firefox’s browser search.
Memory usage:
This will be a real problem and I don’t see a way around it.
Screen real-estate:
Full-screen mode in the browser will get rid all the browser elements and leave you will a full-screen Bespin.
Stability (TextMate never crashes)
TextMate never crashes ANYMORE…. I am sure we can overcome the stability problem in time.
I had always wanted an online code editor with syntax highlighting and some rudimentary form of project management. The most important feature that I am looking forward to is their collaboration feature which is planned for their future release.
If all else fails and you really want to run it from your desktop instead of a browser there is always Mozilla labs’ prism http://labs.mozilla.com/projects/prism/
Edited 2009-02-13 23:46 UTC
I really like the idea of Bespin, I’ve had similair thoughts and even started creating a login-screen for it, but never found a good starting point for the editor (and time).
Any issues people have with this, as the parent poster already mentioned, are mostly solved by the other Mozillla project Prism.
It solves most of the issues keyboard-shortcuts, browser-stability, access to local files, etc.
They are all options that can be enabled/disabled in Prism on a per application/website basis.
The only problems I see is, that they are not ready yet. 😉 Bespin is Alpha en Prism is beta if I’m not mistaken.
I think this is what our customers have already had for years (a webbased CMS), but this time for webdevelopers (and they don’t use IE, so that solves that problem if anyone should complain about that).
Is the following what you meant?
browser -url=”http://editor.example.com/?localfile=%22myfile.txt%22“
Obviously then the browser needs to ask for permission for the website’s JavaScript to read the contents of the file.
Much the same sort of thing should work with opening email links in webmail but, as you say, it hasn’t happened much. Goodness only knows why. Enough extension writers manage to get it working.
I can’t login and I don’t know why. It says maybe caps lock is on when I copy and pasted the password.
I created an accnt this morning and I was able to login just fine. I created a new login just now to check and I am not able to login as well, I see the same error that you are seeing. It could be a temporary thing.. they might be working on it. I’ve sent an email to their google groups to notify them, lets see if it gets fixed soon.
I don’t have any problem with FTP in Emacs. I can open files transparently over several protocols. I imagine TextMate is the same. “Open with” doesn’t sound impossible either. I think the author is looking for problems.
Yes! I am looking for problems. That’s how things improve. We can’t all be leaping on the latest great idea that appears before we know what’s wrong with it
I guess these particular things don’t sound like problems, because they ‘just work’ for me. True, an in-browser editor *will* have problems. Browsers are slowly evolving to better support web apps, but they still have a long way to go.
Of course, there’s always Java Web Start, but it doesn’t get any love.
I think that’s one of the (many) reasons why contact forms have largely superseded mailto: links. Of course, that doesn’t fix the problem if you get a mailto link inside an EMail message.
That’s what SSH and command-line text editors are for
I’ve noticed not all web-developers are great with the commandline, so are very good with Photoshop though.
I love command line … (work on linux every day and so…)
and …
I can use Photoshop fluently … (with virtualbox)
my non-static “web apps” are xhtml strict compliant,
i work with agencies every day, and i care about semantic, and because you noticed English is not my native language ( Frenchy 😉 ), i can assure you that with a brain, a lot is possible…
Utterly impractical… Interesting solely as an exploration of what is possible.
Though the ugly colors that seem to have been intentionally chosen to make cleartype look bad is kind of strange.
Also find it odd there’s zero support for Opera… but of course it’s a HTML 5 demo – Go gecko implementing new crap when they still have decade old CSS2 and HTML4 errors listed in bugzilla!
Very nice!
It’s *really good* to see the Mozilla devs “pushing things along” and coming up with stuff like this (as well as Prism and Ubiquity).