OSNews: http://www.osnews.com/story/21821/Microsoft_Releases_Office_2010_Details_Test_Code Exploring the Future of Computing en-us Copyright 2001-2009, David Adams adam+nospam@osnews.com Mon, 07 Dec 2009 14:24:05 GMT http://www.osnews.com/images/osnews.gif OSNews.com http://www.osnews.com Got leaked to the torrent sites http://osnews.com/thread?373132 http://osnews.com/thread?373132 Not really worth keeping things under wraps any more, beta 1 hit the torrent sites last saturday Mon, 13 Jul 2009 20:00:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (google_ninja) Comments copied GMail http://osnews.com/thread?373138 http://osnews.com/thread?373138 I LOVE how Microsoft copied conversation view directly from GMail.

http://www.pcpro.co.uk/blogs/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/conversatio... Mon, 13 Jul 2009 20:40:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (lqsh) Comments Access continues to be destroyed http://osnews.com/thread?373141 http://osnews.com/thread?373141 It looks like Microsoft is continuing to strangle Access. In 2007, they emasculated it so badly that I told my clients upgrading from 2003 wasn't worth it, since the 2007 version actually took away key features. It was also plain awful to develop with.

I'm guessing they are trying to force people onto SQL Server and .NET, though .NET has awful db controls compared to Access (including .Net 4 now in beta).

And the Ribbon is still awful, tailor-made for our ADHD culture. Mon, 13 Jul 2009 21:12:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (arbour42) Comments RE: Access continues to be destroyed http://osnews.com/thread?373142 http://osnews.com/thread?373142
It looks like Microsoft is continuing to strangle Access. In 2007, they emasculated it so badly that I told my clients...

Please refrain from posting such sexist comments on OSNews. It's impolite, and there could be virgins here. Mon, 13 Jul 2009 21:18:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (sbergman27) Comments RE: Access continues to be destroyed http://osnews.com/thread?373145 http://osnews.com/thread?373145 Edited...Edited 2009-07-13 21:53 UTC Mon, 13 Jul 2009 21:37:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (OSGuy) Comments RE: Access continues to be destroyed http://osnews.com/thread?373148 http://osnews.com/thread?373148 This is the first time I have EVER heard anyone say something nice about access. BerkleyDB, SQLite, Firebird, hell, even FoxPro is better options then Access.

And name one thing about ribbon being worse then menus, outside of being slightly bigger. Mon, 13 Jul 2009 21:38:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (google_ninja) Comments RE[2]: Access continues to be destroyed http://osnews.com/thread?373151 http://osnews.com/thread?373151 For what it does, Access is very powerful for department-level solutions. It allows extremely fast UI and Report development, and gives the user an easy ability to build ad-hoc queries. I've used it since '94 and you cannot build similar front-ends using ANY web technologies today - javascript, flex, silverlight, javafx. A couple of JS libraries are getting there, but still have a good way to go.

The only db front-end builder that is better is Delphi. Nothing in the open-source world, or in Microsoft's .NET world, comes close to either of these.

Also, FoxPro was bought by Microsoft so that Access 2.0 could use Foxpro's query engine. I know fellows still using Foxpro today. I also greatly enjoyed Paradox. If Corel would only open-source it, I would use it immediately. Mon, 13 Jul 2009 22:05:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (arbour42) Comments RE[2]: Access continues to be destroyed http://osnews.com/thread?373168 http://osnews.com/thread?373168
Please refrain from posting such sexist comments on OSNews. It's impolite, and there could be virgins here.


+1 for you! ;) Tue, 14 Jul 2009 00:25:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (chekr) Comments RE[3]: Access continues to be destroyed http://osnews.com/thread?373188 http://osnews.com/thread?373188
For what it does, Access is very powerful for department-level solutions. It allows extremely fast UI and Report development, and gives the user an easy ability to build ad-hoc queries. I've used it since '94 and you cannot build similar front-ends using ANY web technologies today - javascript, flex, silverlight, javafx. A couple of JS libraries are getting there, but still have a good way to go.

The only db front-end builder that is better is Delphi. Nothing in the open-source world, or in Microsoft's .NET world, comes close to either of these.

Also, FoxPro was bought by Microsoft so that Access 2.0 could use Foxpro's query engine. I know fellows still using Foxpro today. I also greatly enjoyed Paradox. If Corel would only open-source it, I would use it immediately.


Unfortunately many people here get hung up about elegance when the reality, like you pointed out in your post, in organisations end users want to be able to put together quick and dirty solutions with minimum fuss and bother. Access is not the greatest thing but what it does do, it does pretty well - and importantly, it integrates into the rest of the Office ecosystem.

I'm stuck on the Mac and there is a tendency of people using filemaker but I guess I'm a bit of contrarian given that I prefer 4th Dimension ( http://www.4d.com/ ) instead which is also available on Window as well. Tue, 14 Jul 2009 03:52:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (kaiwai) Comments RE[2]: Access continues to be destroyed http://osnews.com/thread?373192 http://osnews.com/thread?373192
BerkleyDB, SQLite, Firebird, hell, even FoxPro is better options then Access.


On technical merit, yes. In practical use, no.
Access gets the job done for most people. Admittedly it gets the job done in a horrible way that's an affront to good design but nevertheless, it gets it done.
Or at least it used to. With these new versions that's not necessarily true anymore.Edited 2009-07-14 04:32 UTC Tue, 14 Jul 2009 04:31:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Soulbender) Comments RE[2]: Access continues to be destroyed http://osnews.com/thread?373235 http://osnews.com/thread?373235
This is the first time I have EVER heard anyone say something nice about access. BerkleyDB, SQLite, Firebird, hell, even FoxPro is better options then Access.


If by "Access" you mean the database engine, then I'd agree. It's slow, unreliable, has absolutely terrible performance with concurrent users, is nearly unusable over a network, and has a completely useless security model.

That said... BerkleyDB is fast and reliable, but isn't comparable with Access, since it's not a relational database. SQLite is, again, fast and reliable, but lacks referential integrity constraints, treats field types as nothing more than a guideline, and inherits the same problems inherent to any file-based database - poor concurrency, and no security model.

Other than the database engine, the only bad thing about Access (aside from being nearly unmaintained for 10 years) is much the same as the main problem with PHP. It's easy enough to use that people with no idea what they're doing can build something that works. It'll make a hell of a mess when it eventually breaks on them, of course - that's the point most IT professionals will first get to see the Access database that contains vital business data, but is now completely broken.

As a database front-end, if you know what you're doing with it, it's actually pretty decent.

For example, you can ignore the Access database engine entirely, and connect to any real database server you like using ODBC, including MySQL, PostgreSQL, Microsoft's SQL Server Express, and probably more.

Of course, someone who does know what they're doing could probably build a better UI on another platform, but it'd take them longer, and giving the users the ability to do ad-hoc queries and reports (which they will invariably want to do) would be a huge undertaking.Edited 2009-07-14 14:51 UTC Tue, 14 Jul 2009 14:49:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (ba1l) Comments