So now that the hype machine has been filled with petrol and all fired up, running on all cylinders, what on earth is going to happen to Windows Mobile 6.5? The Next Best Thing has been announced and demoed extensively, the developer tools and emulator are out there, but devices aren’t expected to ship until after the summer, probably around the holiday season. This means that Microsoft must still get phone makers to buy Windows Mobile 6.5.
Despite all the deserved flak Windows Mobile gets for its rather outdated and horrid interface, it’s still a very versatile and flexible mobile operating system. There’s an application for just about anything, and I always found it remarkable how well the battery behaved even under heavy multitasking stress. There should be some way to still sell this thing, right?
Microsoft seems to think so, and it has committed to supporting and shipping Windows Mobile for the foreseeable future. “We will continue to support, ship and sell 6.5,” said Michael Chang, the senior product manager for Windows Phone 7, “Windows Phone 7 is a departure and a break at a code level. Doing so wasn’t an easy decision. It’s a tough decision to move away from a platform like Windows Mobile, but one we were willing to make.”
While the enterprise market is definitely one where Windows Mobile 6.5 still has its place, I’m also wondering if phone makers and Microsoft will continue to make WM 6.5 phones for the general public. Despite the hype generated by Windows Phone 7 Series, we’re looking at an operating system with (for the time being) no multitasking, no cut/copy/paste, and no native code. This means that many of the fancy tricks WM 6.5 (and earlier) was capable of won’t be possible.
Many WM fans – and trust me, there are WM fans – will want to stick to it for that reason, and I’m wondering if Microsoft will make that possible, or if WM 6.5 will become more of a built-to-order kind of thing, reserved for company roll-outs or whatever.
What do you all think? I’m sure we have some tried and true Windows Mobile fans in here, so speak up!
This will not be the last Windows Mobile 6.x version…it’s the one version that keeps compatibility with programs written for everything that it’s not winphone 7. winmo 6.x will have a long life…
Edited 2010-03-24 19:53 UTC
My guess is 8 years, and don’t expect anything beyond security/bug fixes. This is one of those things they will have to support for their enterprise customers even though they really don’t want to.
Should Microsoft take advantage of this wonderful opportunity and rebrand Windows Mobile 6.5 to Windows Mobile XP?
This might seem like I’m being facetious, but I’m actually being serious here. Microsoft has an opportunity to leverage the synergies between the Vista failure and the prolonged life support that will surely be demanded for Windows Mobile 6.5 considering how much breakage will be experienced between it and Windows Mobile 7, might as well get some play out of it… At least this way they can avoid the embarrassment of multiple point releases!
–bornagainpenguin
No. You can’t run XP programs on WM so re-branding ‘Windows Mobile 6.5’ to ‘Mobile XP’ will just confuse users.
I don’t really see how Vista has anything to do with Windows Mobile nor Windows Phone. But maybe I’m missing the point?
I don’t really see why there should be any embarrassment.
This is essentially a new platform and Microsoft has made this fact very very clear.
It even has a different branding (‘Windows Mobile’ vs ‘Windows Phone’)
In some ways, it’s not all that different to the way Apple moved from ‘Mac OS9’ to ‘OS X’.
Users managed there and it’s widely regarded one of the smartest decisions Apple has made in the last 15 years.
—
This last part is going to be unpopular, but I’ll post it anyway:
Hopefully (and I’m being hopeful to the point of nieve) this move by Microsoft will convince them that a simular move is possible on the desktop market. I’d love to see Microsoft switching to a new OS that’s better desined (from the ground up) for today’s computers rather than Windows++ with added tweaks and themes. Backwards compatability, while often being a strengh, is also one of Microsofts flaws. Sometimes you do just need to take a break from the code and start anew.
Edited 2010-03-25 09:56 UTC
Laurence rebuffed…
Well maybe not XP, if enough people get confused about it and start confusing it with XP Embedded it could lead to more problems. Still some form of rebranding would probably be beneficial so long as they avoid any terms that imply old or inferior in any way. I only picked XP because in the customer mind XP as a brand is still a good one, and one that is seen as being better than the newer edition (Vista, Seven) so by latching on to it some of that good feeling could be transferred to WinMo 6.5…
Laurence rebuffed…
You are I think. The point is Windows Mobile Seven is a gamble, a bet that many people see as a bad one, just like Vista was perceived as a bad bet. Just as with Vista I predict people will hold on to the older version of the product over the newer releases. I’m predicting that just as XP still comes with new computers and netbooks today, WinMo 6.5.xxx.xxx.x will still be selling when WinPhone 8 is being released.
Laurence rebuffed…
If WinMo 6.5.xx.xx.xxx.x gets long in the tooth it would simplify things now by rebranding it rather than having to keep adding version numbers.
Laurence rebuffed…
Microsoft is not Apple, is not Apple, is not Apple. There are a lot of things Apple gets away with that people would never stand for coming from Microsoft.
There was also a strong perception that people were getting something better by moving from OS 9 to OS X. (Note the branding there too, Apple sells OS X “name of cat here” not OS 10.6.xx–branding is important!) Are you getting the vibe from programmers and users that they see WinPhone 7 as an improvement over WinMo 6.5?
–bornagainpenguin
OK, fair enough
Right. I see what you’re saying now.
I think re-branding WM to distance itself from WP for the reasons you specify would be sending out the wrong messages.
Plus you seem to be basing all this on an assumption that WP7 will flop.
That’s assuming Microsoft keep updating the WM line.
It would make more sense for them to push WP7 for the mobile market and CE for other embedded devices
As I’ve already stated, Microsoft is re-branding: Windows Mobile -> Windows Phone.
You may argue that it’s not significant enough, but it’s not really that different from the example you gave:
OS 9 -> OS X (bare in mind that ‘X’ is a Roman numeral for ’10’)
Erm, well yes.
Maybe it’s just the people I’ve spoken to, but those that I have are mostly looking forward to WP.
Personally I’m sceptical, but then I disliked WM6 so my perhaps personal opinion is somewhat irrelevant….
I think, that regardless of what Microsoft eventually end up doing with WM6.x, the FUD over WP7 will have caused a dent in their popularity. Steve Balmer virtually admitted on a TV interview, that all Microsoft is doing with WP7 is copying the competition. Well, if that’s what Microsoft thinks the market wants, then it doesn’t bode well for the WM6 line.
Edited 2010-03-24 22:20 UTC
Hasn’t that pretty much been their business plan since BASIC?
same with apple or most any other big company for the most part.
prove me wrong. :p
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CW0DUg63lqU
Apple takes a good idea someone has, makes it great, and turns it into a huge market. MS waits for a huge market around a proven idea, and then does their implementation.
Which is typically, though not always, bloated and buggy beyond all reasoning for the first couple of years.
In the MS dev world, people always say microsoft products only get really good after the third rewrite.
They definitely need to keep supporting this for their enterprise and industrial markets. The barcode scanning devices and card swipers from Motorola Symbol, Denso, Datalogic, Intermec are in heavy use and Windows Mobile 7 most certainly will not be a solution here.
Windows CE still exists, and it is a separate product from Windows Mobile. Presumably those devices use CE and not the Mobile incarnation of it.
Usually when you buy one of the enterprise PDAs you are offered a choice of either Windows Mobile or Windows CE.
I write enterprise PDA software for a living, and at work we target Windows Mobile. The reason for that is so that customers have a choice in buying the PDA that suits them, from a $300 consumer level device, to a $6000 industrial level device. If we targeted Windows CE, then we couldn’t offer the use of the really cheap devices.
Both CE and Windows Mobile share a common base. Basically Windows Mobile is a modified version of CE with a different GUI. If your app is written to run on Windows Mobile, then you could re-use the back-end code, but you would need to severely modify the GUI for it to work well on CE.
Edited 2010-03-25 10:05 UTC
That’s really kind of ironic. Windows CE is as I understand it a barebones version of Windows Mobile, and yet devices that come with it are *more* expensive than Windows Mobile devices…. tis a strange world we live in.
Several monthe ago I upgraded to an AT&T Tilt 2 and love WinMo 6.5 and appreciate the work that went into it.
This is one in a long line of WinMo devices I’ve owned. As a sample, here are some: IBM WorkPad Z50, Cingular 8125, AT&T 8525, AT&T Tilt and now the Tilt 2.
I could have gotten either an iPhone or a Blackberry and a much better price but decided to stay with WinMo for several reasons:
1. Apple’s iPhone Data Plan: Apple uses AT&T as an access point for the iPhone to get to the ‘Net. Pointless and I don’t appreciate that level of layering.
2. RIM’s Data Plan: RIM uses AT&T as an access pont as well. Same reason for keeping away from layering to ‘Net access.
3. If I want to go to the ‘Net, I go. Straight ahead. No layered access issues.
4. Plenty of forums & tweaks out there for customization. XDA-Developers is a site I go to.
5. Great Third-Party apps out there. I’m not locked into Apple’s App Store, etc. A great site for WinMo apps that have fantastic trials & demos is Spb Software. I have a few Spb S/W progs/apps on my Tilt 2 and they’re great apps – never any problems. (Can’t speak for RIM/Blackberry apps – no experience with them).
One of the things I’ve done is tried some of the home-grown ROMS for my various WinMo devices that I got at XDA-Developers. Even trying to do crazy things, I’ve never, ‘bricked,’ any of my WinMo devices. There always seems to be a way to recover a WinMo-based device if a ROM-Burn goes south. You may have to hunt for the right fix-it action, but it’s been there for the times I got myself in trouble. Quite comforting.
My hopes are that MS supports WinMo 6.5 for quite some time. It’s a well written OS and allows the user to customize the device beyond what’s available through Mobile Marketplace, etc.
I do have some reservations about a future upgrade to WinMo 7. If the stories & articles are true about the lock-downs that may be in WinMo 7, I’ll be staying with WinMo 6.5 for as long as I can.
I agree.
Windows Mobile followed path of Windows desktop and was designed with that path on mind. That would mean:
* do their best to support basically any kind of device which could be produced by phone makers;
* let user be free. No AppsStore: use what you want, from commercial software to home-grown one;
* let developers be free to do what they want: users will judge their job.
* only provide a basic OS: phone makers and even users will provide an extra layer for extra functionalities. Sbp software is a great example about that (I also run SBPShell on my Omnia phone upgraded to WM6.5 😉 Xda-developers and Modaco forums are great!)
They now found out that business model is great for business market but, incredibly, it was TOO MUCH for consumers. Yeah, I really mean it.
If you look, Windows Phone is four steps behind “old” WM concept, that is :
* locked environment: Apps from AppStore only, no SD card, no native code, no m/t;
* fewer designs: competition only runs a few design (like Apple, for example) which should they be able to run ANY phone design ? That’s a step behind, not forward.
* tighter control over platform: they claim it was for performance reasons but actually it was for money reasons.
* they won’t rely on 3rd parties to provide enhancements to platform anymore: they will evolve the platform and 3rd parties will be able to “hook” into it.
They simple got aware they could switch to a different business model which meant less for users but more money for them. If competition does that and they make money, why should they provide a better design and be accused to live in the past ?
I repeat what I said: I’m with WM since 2003 but there won’t be a Windows Phone in my future, the same way there won’t be an iPhone.
WM is an awful pile of crap. I’ve owned plenty of WM devices right back to when they were called PocketPC, and even … WinCE.
They all had one thing in common: They were hilariously bad. They would crash every time there was a day in the month. Or, sometimes, they would just do whatever they liked.
Example: Sending an SMS on a WM phone device was always different. Sometimes it would:
* Send the message, but not notify you. So you’d send it again unnecessarily.
* Notify you that it was sent, but not actually send it until much, much later when the recipient had fogotten the conversation altogether.
* Send the message 5 or 6 times. Always made your phone bill something to look forward to.
Another innovative feature was the legendary “Unable to answer call” error message. No reason why. It’s just unable to answer the call OK?
Oh well, at least they weren’t boring 😉
Windows *CE* is still a product. I love how people think it was just an earlier version.
I own and use a Treo 800w phone with Windows Mobile 6.1 and I have never had any of the issues you have had. I’m also one of the apparently few people that loves windows mobile 6.1
I’ve had very very few problems with it, most of the ones I have had were my own fault.
I’ve also owned Windows CE powered devices for the past decade or so and most of them have been rock solid. From my jornada 720, sharp mobilon 4600, NEC mobilepro 780, phenom h/pc, to my favorite the casio e125. About the only complaint I could give is that on the earlier units, the OS could be a bit sluggish, but that is about it.
Actually, it was an earlier version. It forked when PocketPC became an OS in it’s own right.
WinCE carried on, but it was an earlier version of WM.
I guess that Microsoft has not learned from Osborne effect, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osborne_effect.
Why should a phone maker make winphone7 devices?
Enterprise customers, i.e. the ones with money and real use for a smartphone will want 6.5, so you better make such devices.
Both iPhone and Android offers better usability, functionality and more applications than winphone7. So the average Joe will likely go for iPhone or Android or even the new version of Symbian. I.e. if you make winphone7 devices they are likely to stay on the shelf.
In turn this means few winphone7 devices on the market, and that is likely to result in little interest in making software for the new platform, and with few software titles the platform becomes less interesting to customers
As I see it, winphone7 will go the same way as WebOS, followed later by winmo6.5, as customers will realize that Microsoft will not support it forever, and switch to something else. That something else, is likely something with lots of available applications, i.e iPhone or Android
This is the aspect that interests me. In some departments Microsoft seem to be more interested in courting the hip consumer market at the expense of ignoring their massive long-standard corporate and enterprise markets.
Examples:
Windows XP, Vista and 7:
Windows 2000 was exactly what businesses want. Low hardware requirements, rock-stable and scalable.
Windows XP was designed to try and woo/wow consumers. Its Lego / Fischer-Price look, focus on multimedia (including DirectX) and advertising campaigns were all centered around the consumer and not what businesses wanted.
Windows Vista was 10x worse. The hardware requirements were insane compared to what was available in business desktops at the time.
It’s only with the recent Server releases that Microsoft have been giving companies what they want, but the desktop situation is still awkward with businesses having to run greatly over engineered version of Windows on overkill hardware for clients to do the most basic of computing tasks that could be done just as well on 10 year old hardware running Win2K or Linux.
Windows Mobile:
There’s a reason why with such an awful interface Windows Mobile is so common in the enterprise (with RIM being the biggest rivals). Enterprises have a lot of very specific requirements and they have a ton of custom systems to interface with. They need the absolute flexibility to install what they want, and to manage it with the tools they already have.
By courting the consumer market with WinPho7S (and all its restrictions) Microsoft are effectively saying that enterprise customers are second class, with no future. Microsoft _will_ lose out because of this reckless affair with the more alluring (but unstable) consumer market. Businesses will be much more willing to consider RIM and Apple for their phone needs in the future.
Microsoft are playing a dangerous game trying to win the hearts of fickle consumers over their solid enterprise market. Apple were totally taken by surprise by the demand for enterprise support on the iPhone. That’s why iPhone OS 2.0 focused mainly around enterprise support ~ LDAP / Remote Wipe / CalDav / Exchange and so forth. I highly suspect that Microsoft will be forced to add support for enterprise technologies to WinPho7S in a later update–if it catches on at all, that is.
On most enterprises I deal with, Java/.Net are now the kings of development, so I hardly see the no native code as a restriction as such.
It is a very different thing to run Java/.Net on the server and to run it on the client, running them on a mobile client, with more constraint son memmory and cpu, is even worse.
Naturally, you could run most of the apps on the serverside, but sometimes you need to run things locally.
Who spoke about running only on the server side?
The applications are also run on mobile platforms.
The enterprise PDA application that I have developed for Windows Mobile is written in C# (.NET). It was initially written about 6 years ago, and has had constant development ever since. (By constant, I mean code changes on a weekly basis).
The most important things with an enterprise application is flexibility and development speed.
If the application is slow to run you can throw money/hardware at the problem. If it takes you too long to make modifications to the software that your customer has requested, you will lose lots of money.
That’s why we chose to write the application in C#. We could just about accept the runtime speed penalty of a byte code language, but we absolutely needed the rapid development cycle.
As far as running a large application written in .NET on a Windows Mobile device, you have to design carefully. You have to take account of the hardware restraints, but you are dealing with memory, storage and CPU speed levels that were common on desktop machines little more than 10 years ago. As long as you treat the device like you would have a 10 year old desktop, then you won’t have too many problems.
heh, We still run windows 2000 sp4 and Windows XP SP3 at work. We have no plans to upgrade anytime soon. Just isn’t worth it yet.
Most of our current machines can handle 7 fine (p4s or core2 towers) but we will have to upgrade the ram in all of them before hand. They about all have 1gb of memory with maybe 30% of them at 512mb mark.
Win7 runs incredibly well in 1GB of RAM, assuming that you don’t have useless tray icons. I’ve been running Win7 on a 1.6 GHz Atom netbook with 1GB since launch and it’s been outstanding—and that’s _without_ a page file!
You forgot: Assuming you don’t have huge drivers. Some Windows hardware drivers are giant resource hogs. It’s not Microsoft’s fault, but the problem still exists if you have machines that need those drivers. nVidia graphics drivers, anyone?
Yeah, but you’re probably not a “user.” You know those people with animated java bald eagles flying arund their screen while they work. People that “can’t get their job done” if you don’t give them full admin rights. Those that have 7 different tool bars and shopping helpers. 2 different AV programs running (one you installed, the other they were tricked into buying/installing.) You know…. one of them.
It runs OK in 1gb. I have it on an older Acer laptop with a 1.6ghz dualcore core duo with 1gb pc2-5300 and its decent. But mix 7 with the software we run at work and there is *no* way it would run fine in 1gb. 1gb is the minimum for XP and our stuff as it is. The software is all java based and eats gobs of ram.
*sigh*