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OSNews: http://www.osnews.com/story/23376/FSF_Apple_s_iTunes_Store_Terms_of_Service_at_Odds_with_GPL Exploring the Future of Computing en-us Copyright 2001-2013, David Adams adam+nospam@osnews.com Wed, 19 Jun 2013 18:12:08 GMT http://www.osnews.com/images/osnews.gif OSNews.com http://www.osnews.com Wow. http://www.osnews.com/thread?427069 http://www.osnews.com/thread?427069 After reading some of the comments on the actual story, there appears to be a very strong disdain for the GPL.

I really wouldn't be surprised if Apple at some point bans any GPL-base coded software from the App-Store in the near future. Fri, 28 May 2010 23:37:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (ballmerlikesgoogle) Comments The questions should be... http://www.osnews.com/thread?427071 http://www.osnews.com/thread?427071 Do Apple's terms give them any more control over the CODE for the app?

Do Apple's terms restrict the developer from complying with the requirement that the CODE be made freely available?

These FOSS licences are supposed to be there to keep the CODE freely useable, modifiable and available. If the FSF is restricting distribution of an app for anything other than lack of compliance with those goals they are being more anal than Apple IMHO. Fri, 28 May 2010 23:43:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (mrhasbean) Comments Something Apple should do http://www.osnews.com/thread?427076 http://www.osnews.com/thread?427076 Is remove DRM from any free apps on the App Store so that you can just email a copy to friends or upload it to your own web site. By all means put the app through the approval process to make sure it's not going to smoke someone's phone and make it's initial download only through the app store, but then make it freely available for mass distribution through any media. IMO this would be a win-win and anyone wanting to redistribute it would have to then abide by the appropriate licences too. Fri, 28 May 2010 23:58:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (mrhasbean) Comments RE: Something Apple should do http://www.osnews.com/thread?427078 http://www.osnews.com/thread?427078 Agreed, and that would be an effective way out of this issue with the FSF too. As best I understand it, the FSF is upset that anyone who downloads a GPL-based app from the store cannot redistribute the according binary as the GPL says they should. The DRM does, in fact, violate that term of the GPL and so do Apple's terms of service. With a quick exception clause in those, and the removal of DRM for all free apps, the situation is close to neutralized. There may also be paid apps with GPL'd code in them too however, and the same would have to be done to those and I guarantee you Apple would never do such a thing. They'd probably never do it for free apps either, because if they did they wouldn't be able to do their oh-so-important download stat tracking on those distributed outside of the stor, plus the app store lock-in would be effectively removed. Apple would never do such a thing, from sheer stubbornness if for no other reason. They're too fond of their store lock-in to ever let it go and, while I suspect it will hurt them more than help them in the long run, they do not see things that way. Sat, 29 May 2010 00:08:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (darknexus) Comments RE: The questions should be... http://www.osnews.com/thread?427083 http://www.osnews.com/thread?427083 By violating the GPL, Apple is comitting a copyright violation (by violating the GPL, you lose the right to freely distribute the code and binary). I prefer MIT/BSD licenses and dislike the GPL, but Apple must abide by the GPL - if not, they'll have to face legal action.

And that's a case Apple will lose with 100% certainty. Every time the GPL ended up in court, it held up, no matter the jurisdiction.Edited 2010-05-29 00:34 UTC Sat, 29 May 2010 00:32:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Thom_Holwerda) Comments DRM isn't the root problem http://www.osnews.com/thread?427089 http://www.osnews.com/thread?427089 They aren't "up in arms" - the GPL was simply violated and they are pointing it out and doing so with less thunder than the RIAA or MPAA usually does. Or even Apple to someone like Pystar.

The GPL insists that you be able to run modified versions, that the source is available, etc.

Free as in Speech more than Free as in Beer.

If the DRM was such that you could run the UNMODIFIED version, it wouldn't clear up the problem.

For it to meet the GPLv2 or worse, v3 (which avoids TiVoization which would apply here), I need to have access to the source, be able to modify the code and be able to DISTRIBUTE and run that modified code on the device.

There are other subtleties, but Apple's agreement and the GPL (v2 or v3) are incompatible on several levels. Sat, 29 May 2010 00:55:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (tomz) Comments ... http://www.osnews.com/thread?427097 http://www.osnews.com/thread?427097 Oh FSF, where were you when IBM sued certaint open source company over their patents?

Oh, I forgot, IBM is your sponsor.

You oportunistic. Sat, 29 May 2010 02:51:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Hiev) Comments RE: ... http://www.osnews.com/thread?427099 http://www.osnews.com/thread?427099 IBM didn't sue any FLOSS project. (Yet)

I do not know what you are implying.

On topic: Apple Store policy is very clear: No Free Software. Just proprietary. They did not say with those words but that is what it means.

Someone trowed a jab at GPL, but no other FLOSS license is allowed either. Their policy is in conflict with Open Source Definition and Free Software definition. For BSD licensed code to be included in their store, it needs to be striped of BSD license and made proprietary, becase BSD license is also incompatible with 5 users limit. Only difference is that BSD license can be removed easily and users can be shafted even without original developers' knowledge. With GPL, you have to seek permission of copyright holder to do that, and in this case that is FSF; they not do such kind of deals. Sat, 29 May 2010 03:27:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (gnufreex) Comments RE[2]: ... http://www.osnews.com/thread?427100 http://www.osnews.com/thread?427100 http://www.osnews.com/story/23115/IBM_Breaks_Open_Source_Patent_Ple... Sat, 29 May 2010 03:30:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Hiev) Comments RE[3]: ... http://www.osnews.com/thread?427117 http://www.osnews.com/thread?427117 Oh, that. IBM did not sued. They have proved to be enormous dickwads, but they did not sued and it is arguable if they even threatened. Read the letters. TH is the one who launched complaint to European Commission against IBM.

I would not say that IBM's stupidity was attack on open source. Even PJ of Groklaw (who is always on FLOSS side) said that TH guys are bunch of bozos.

Anyway, FSF have spoken against IBM number of times. This was non-issue. Sat, 29 May 2010 09:56:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (gnufreex) Comments RE[2]: The questions should be... http://www.osnews.com/thread?427119 http://www.osnews.com/thread?427119

By violating the GPL, Apple is comitting a copyright violation (by violating the GPL, you lose the right to freely distribute the code and binary). I prefer MIT/BSD licenses and dislike the GPL, but Apple must abide by the GPL - if not, they'll have to face legal action.

It's interesting you're not a developer so you're not interested in taking a open source product and making it into a closed source product, yet you prefer the license which ensures that you as a user will have more rights. So from what I can tell when prefer BSD over GPL it's purely political, but it's the proponents of the GPL who are always accused of politicising.

Frankly I can't understand why some people have this strong fundamental opposition to the GPL (I'm not saying that you do). If somebody donates something they ask for something in return, i.e. that the money(...) is spend to "do good" (whatever that means to the donor). That is considered perfectly ok, I'd argue very few people would donate money to profit organisations just so they can increase their profit. However if someone creates a software and asks in return that the software (that persons work) remains free (as in speech) then suddenly a lot of people find that offensive. Sat, 29 May 2010 10:00:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (cycoj) Comments RE[3]: The questions should be... http://www.osnews.com/thread?427129 http://www.osnews.com/thread?427129 I do not find the GPL offensive at all - I didn't say anything like that. All I'm saying is that I prefer BSD-style licenses because they cause the minimum amount of fuss. I also happen to believe in choice, and part of that belief is tat closed source companies can use your code too.

However, that is entirely a personal choice. Sat, 29 May 2010 11:21:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Thom_Holwerda) Comments RE[4]: The questions should be... http://www.osnews.com/thread?427134 http://www.osnews.com/thread?427134

I do not find the GPL offensive at all - I didn't say anything like that.

Sorry if I wasn't clear I actually didn't mean you with that.

All I'm saying is that I prefer BSD-style licenses because they cause the minimum amount of fuss. I also happen to believe in choice, and part of that belief is that closed source companies can use your code too.

I understand the minimum amount of fuss argument, however I don't get the choice argument. The closed source companies don't give you the choice to use their code.

However, that is entirely a personal choice.

I agree license is a personal choice (of the developer). And I do believe that both BSD and GPL licenses have their uses. Sat, 29 May 2010 12:26:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (cycoj) Comments RE[4]: The questions should be... http://www.osnews.com/thread?427137 http://www.osnews.com/thread?427137 Well, you wrote that you disliked it, which may or may not imply that you find offense with it. Anyways, I don't see the point of being hostile towards a licence since they're just that, licences. If you are angry that code X is licenced under Y, then your beef is really with the code author who chose to licence it as such, and not with the licence itself which is just an agreement. Sat, 29 May 2010 12:58:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Valhalla) Comments RE[4]: ... http://www.osnews.com/thread?427139 http://www.osnews.com/thread?427139 Well, the FSF didn't appear to botter since they stayed in silence. Sat, 29 May 2010 13:25:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Hiev) Comments RE: DRM isn't the root problem http://www.osnews.com/thread?427143 http://www.osnews.com/thread?427143

For it to meet the GPLv2 or worse, v3 (which avoids TiVoization which would apply here), I need to have access to the source, be able to modify the code and be able to DISTRIBUTE and run that modified code on the device.

Assuming Robota Software, the app 'Authors', distributed the source you can do all of the above. Yes if you want to run it on the actual device you'd need to be in the iphone developers program and pay your $99 a year to Apple, but it is still compliant with the terms of the GPL if not the spirit. Certainly less of an issue than TiVoization.

As for Apple themselves needing to distribute the code, should I also be asking the DVD press company that Red Hat use for RHEL code or the store I bought if from ? Sat, 29 May 2010 13:46:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Vargol) Comments RE: Something Apple should do http://www.osnews.com/thread?427149 http://www.osnews.com/thread?427149 And open flood gates to piracy? Actually only people that FSF should blame is those that submit programs to Apple iTunes Store. They are ones who actually break GPL, and possibly Apple terms also, in this case since they agreed on both terms. Most likely Apple will just remove any GPL stuff to fix problem. Sat, 29 May 2010 15:03:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Karitku) Comments RE: ... http://www.osnews.com/thread?427152 http://www.osnews.com/thread?427152

Oh FSF, where were you when IBM sued certaint open source company over their patents?

Oh, I forgot, IBM is your sponsor.

You oportunistic.

The FSF *KNEW* just like most people with more than *1* fuctioning brain cell that claims of that certain open source company was full of shit.

Get over it. Sat, 29 May 2010 16:06:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (chris_l) Comments RE[2]: ... http://www.osnews.com/thread?427158 http://www.osnews.com/thread?427158 Yes, and still remains quiet and accept its sponsorship so its credibility gets affected badly.

Deal with it. Sat, 29 May 2010 18:06:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Hiev) Comments RE[3]: ... http://www.osnews.com/thread?427162 http://www.osnews.com/thread?427162 Re-read what you replied to, I think you got it the other way around. Sat, 29 May 2010 19:57:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (ichi) Comments RE[2]: Something Apple should do http://www.osnews.com/thread?427175 http://www.osnews.com/thread?427175

And open flood gates to piracy? Actually only people that FSF should blame is those that submit programs to Apple iTunes Store. They are ones who actually break GPL, and possibly Apple terms also, in this case since they agreed on both terms. Most likely Apple will just remove any GPL stuff to fix problem.

You should read the GPL text in full. Because it does cover the distribution process very thoroughly. And removing all GPL licensed software from the AppStore will be the easiest way of doing things. Sat, 29 May 2010 22:51:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (JAlexoid) Comments RE: DRM isn't the root problem http://www.osnews.com/thread?427195 http://www.osnews.com/thread?427195

They aren't "up in arms" - the GPL was simply violated and they are pointing it out and doing so with less thunder than the RIAA or MPAA usually does.

I wasn't aware the iPad's operating system and the network that distributes content to it were released under the GPL. Where can one find a copy? Sun, 30 May 2010 04:27:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Almafeta) Comments Would not be an issue if... http://www.osnews.com/thread?427232 http://www.osnews.com/thread?427232 This wouldn't be an issue if Apple would just allow the users to install whatever they want from outside the app store.

Even if they did come up with a halfway workable way to make the app store "compatible" with the GPL, it doesn't change the fact that the principles of the GPL and the FSF are pretty much the opposite of those of the app store. The FSF is all about the ability of everyone to share apps all they want, and to run whatever they feel like, and to mess around with system internals to your hearts content. Do that with an iPhone and you're technically breaking the law.

Apple really needs to pull their head out of their ass and realize that the world does not revolve around them. They should not be criminalizing the right of the consumer to do what they want with their device.Edited 2010-05-30 15:02 UTC Sun, 30 May 2010 14:57:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Moochman) Comments RE[2]: DRM isn't the root problem http://www.osnews.com/thread?427237 http://www.osnews.com/thread?427237

"They aren't "up in arms" - the GPL was simply violated and they are pointing it out and doing so with less thunder than the RIAA or MPAA usually does.

I wasn't aware the iPad's operating system and the network that distributes content to it were released under the GPL. Where can one find a copy? "

Apple's crap isn't released under the GPL. However Apple's claiming the right to impose restrictions upon things that doesn't fall under Apple's ownership without the obtaining permision of the actual owner does violate the GPL and a number other similar approaches. Sun, 30 May 2010 15:50:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (chris_l) Comments RE: Would not be an issue if... http://www.osnews.com/thread?427255 http://www.osnews.com/thread?427255 you do need to balance the open part with a working phone. The above policy if followed strictly would surely drive apple into bankruptcy over support costs.

I'm not sure what the best model is for these types of special purpose devices.Edited 2010-05-30 22:27 UTC Sun, 30 May 2010 22:25:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (bnolsen) Comments RE: Would not be an issue if... http://www.osnews.com/thread?427269 http://www.osnews.com/thread?427269

Apple really needs to pull their head out of their ass and realize that the world does not revolve around them. They should not be criminalizing the right of the consumer to do what they want with their device.

No you need to pull your head out of your own ass and realize that the vast majority of iphone users are satisfied with the iphone store. It has over 100k apps and almost all of them are under $5. Only a tiny minority cares about being able to install apps from a USB drive or web site.

If you don't like it then buy an Android. Like Stallman you need to accept that most proprietary software transactions are mutually beneficial. People want functionality, not ideology. Mon, 31 May 2010 01:31:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (nt_jerkface) Comments RE[2]: Would not be an issue if... http://www.osnews.com/thread?427284 http://www.osnews.com/thread?427284 You need to get your head out of sand and look at the facts before posting pre-written anti-FSF propaganda.

Most sheeple liking iPhone store has nothing to do with this case. But all you want is to bash Stallman and FSF, so you probably did not even looked at what this is about. Mon, 31 May 2010 06:25:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (gnufreex) Comments RE[3]: Would not be an issue if... http://www.osnews.com/thread?427289 http://www.osnews.com/thread?427289 *Discussion going nowhere spotted* Mon, 31 May 2010 08:08:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Neolander) Comments RE: Wow. http://www.osnews.com/thread?427292 http://www.osnews.com/thread?427292 The usual defense of Apple business practices is, its their stuff, if you don't like it, don't buy it. The defense of their stance on Psystar was, its their stuff, if Psystar wants to resell it, it has to comply with their license and do as they say.

What is being said here is, its a GPL license, if you don't like it, don't sell it.

What is sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander. The way it works is not that Apple gets to enforce its licenses on everyone else, but no-one gets to enforce their licenses on Apple. No, it don't work like that. They want to distribute something, they comply with the distribution clauses in the licenses.

All GPL apps should be removed from the App Store, which at the moment means removing them from iPhones. And if Apple wants to allow GPL apps to run on iPhones and iPads, well, it can always allow people to install them outside of the App Store.

Oh, it can't do that, can it? It conflicts with its business model? What a pity. Mon, 31 May 2010 09:06:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (alcibiades) Comments RE: The questions should be... http://www.osnews.com/thread?427293 http://www.osnews.com/thread?427293 The problem is, they are not in compliance with the distribution clauses of the GPL. This is Apple, not the developer, that is out of compliance. That is why all GPL apps will have to be removed from the store in the end.

Look, they have a simple solution to this, if the problem is the lack of GPL applications on the iPad, all they have to do is let people install apps outside of the App Store. Maybe they could let them download them and then run an installer? I wonder if that ever occurred to them, we should point it out. Mon, 31 May 2010 09:09:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (alcibiades) Comments RE[2]: The questions should be... http://www.osnews.com/thread?427294 http://www.osnews.com/thread?427294 Apple bias showing again Thom.

The issue is not Apple's but the developers of the application. The FSF is essentially sending Apple a 'takedown notice'.

K Mon, 31 May 2010 09:15:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (kristoph) Comments So, Apple needs to inspect all source code also http://www.osnews.com/thread?427323 http://www.osnews.com/thread?427323 FSF is just looking for somewhere to grind the ax again. Publicity, thy name is Apple.

Shall Apple inspect each line of source code of each application submitted to the App Store? Shall they keep a cross reference of all open source code, line by line, version by version?

The easiest solution is to eject anything from the App Store that is mentioned by the FSF and take away the fun.

This is not the way for the FSF to promote open source software but it's certainly a way to give it a bad reputation, regardless of your stand on the licence. Mon, 31 May 2010 17:31:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (bousozoku) Comments RE[2]: Would not be an issue if... http://www.osnews.com/thread?427327 http://www.osnews.com/thread?427327 Nothing you say shows any kind of benefit for the customer being criminalized just for choosing to install apps from outside of the app store.

That is all.Edited 2010-05-31 18:04 UTC Mon, 31 May 2010 18:02:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Moochman) Comments Developer's Responsibility http://www.osnews.com/thread?427388 http://www.osnews.com/thread?427388 Since Apple cannot reasonably know what code a developer has or has not used in their application, it seems to me the responsibility for this misuse of GPL-licensed code should rest with the developers. In fact, Apple should pull the offending products from the store for not only being in violation of the GPL, but also for being in violation of Apple's developer contract, which in section 5.1 states:

"You represent and warrant that: ... (b) none of the Licensed Applications, or Appleâs or end-usersâ permitted uses of those Licensed Applications, violate or infringe any patent, copyright, trademark, trade secret or other intellectual property or contractual rights of any other person, firm, corporation or other entity; "

What that says, in part, is that Apple's permitted use (e.g. distribution via the App Store via their policies) must not infringe the intellectual property of others AND it is up to the developer to ensure this.

Developers using GPL code in their binary applications, which Apple distributes and does not allow customers to redistribute is a violation of the license on the DEVELOPERs' part. I'm an iPhone dev and have never used GPL-licensed code in my products as this has always been my understanding of the contact.Edited 2010-06-01 03:48 UTC Tue, 01 Jun 2010 03:43:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (yoursecretninja) Comments