OSNews: http://www.osnews.com/story/24635/Internet_Filtering_Possibly_Outlawed_in_Europe Exploring the Future of Computing en-us Copyright 2001-2013, David Adams adam+nospam@osnews.com Tue, 21 May 2013 20:18:45 GMT http://www.osnews.com/images/osnews.gif OSNews.com http://www.osnews.com "imposed upon ISPs by courts" http://www.osnews.com/thread?470146 http://www.osnews.com/thread?470146 What about ones imposed by governments? That's the one that needs addressing 'cause it's already happening in many so-called democratic countries outside of Europe. Thu, 14 Apr 2011 22:05:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (mrhasbean) Comments RE: "imposed upon ISPs by courts" http://www.osnews.com/thread?470150 http://www.osnews.com/thread?470150
so-called democratic countries outside of Europe.


Since those would be outside of Europe the European Court of Justice have no jurisdiction there. Thu, 14 Apr 2011 22:36:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Soulbender) Comments RE[2]: "imposed upon ISPs by courts" http://www.osnews.com/thread?470156 http://www.osnews.com/thread?470156
Since those would be outside of Europe the European Court of Justice have no jurisdiction there.


Wow, who'd have thought What it would do is add credence to the arguments by those opposing the filters / have them dismantled in countries where they've been legislated. And if they don't outlaw them in Europe you can bet it won't be long before they're imposed. Thu, 14 Apr 2011 23:24:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (mrhasbean) Comments Possibly outlawed? http://www.osnews.com/thread?470158 http://www.osnews.com/thread?470158 It doesn't mean Internet filtering is outlawed, it only means that ISPs cannot be forced to do it. They are free to do filtering if they themselves wish to, like e.g. if they get enough money from MAFIAA-like entities to do it.

It is still an important decision given the fact that those aforementioned entities have been trying to force ISPs to do filtering, even when the ISPs themselves do not wish to do it. This releases those ISPs unconditionally from such. Also, it could possibly pave the way for actual outlawing of most Internet traffic, though I highly doubt it would mean all of it.

Expect some ISPs now to actually start advertising that they offer unfiltered Internet access if some of the other ISPs in the same country/area make a deal with MAFIAA et. al. and start filtering. It will become a selling point now that there is no worry about MAFIAA coming after them. Fri, 15 Apr 2011 00:31:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (WereCatf) Comments RE: "imposed upon ISPs by courts" http://www.osnews.com/thread?470159 http://www.osnews.com/thread?470159
What about ones imposed by governments?


As far as I understand (I am not a lawyer or even an experienced person in legal matters) this already covers that, too, unless the filtering has to do with criminal activities or criminal investigation. Fri, 15 Apr 2011 00:33:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (WereCatf) Comments RE[3]: "imposed upon ISPs by courts" http://www.osnews.com/thread?470164 http://www.osnews.com/thread?470164 Europe can't outlaw filtering in countries outside europe, obviously, so what would be the point? We cant make laws for other countries and saying "we have decided that doing what you're doing in your country is unlawful". It's like, say, Sweden would decide to outlaw filtering in the U.S. It's pointless and arrogant.
As I understand it this new "directive" (or whatever) would also apply to government forced filtering.
Now, officially condemning something that is happening somewhere else is an entirely different matter. Fri, 15 Apr 2011 04:29:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Soulbender) Comments RE[4]: "imposed upon ISPs by courts" http://www.osnews.com/thread?470166 http://www.osnews.com/thread?470166
As I understand it this new "directive" (or whatever) would also apply to government forced filtering.

If the government merely instructed ISPs to do this, I think it would, but the ruling clearly states that legislators can enact laws forcing censorship. It just says that currently those laws don't exist and the copyright industry can't sue ISPs unless they do.

Essentially, they've moved the fight out of the lawyers hands and into the legislature. Money talks there as well, but they'll have to bribe a lot of people to enact these laws with no guarantee of success. As opposed to the current tactic which is to pay lawyers a bunch of money and threaten to sue everyone. So it is a big win.Edited 2011-04-15 05:07 UTC Fri, 15 Apr 2011 05:05:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (smitty) Comments Thank you Belgium! http://www.osnews.com/thread?470168 http://www.osnews.com/thread?470168 You can all thank Belgium for this btw! ;) We've finally done something those pesky Dutch can be jealous of! (I'm looking at you Thom...) ;) Fri, 15 Apr 2011 06:59:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (tunkaflux) Comments RE[4]: "imposed upon ISPs by courts" http://www.osnews.com/thread?470169 http://www.osnews.com/thread?470169
Europe can't outlaw filtering in countries outside europe, obviously, so what would be the point?.


(1) For ourselves!!

(2) It makes it a lot harder for other countries(i.e. the U.S.) to 'fool' their own electorate into accepting practices that would be or going in the direction of being - a lot more draconian, less free in several ways, and more 'nanny state'{that's being polite} than what would be the new norm over the pond in Europe! Fri, 15 Apr 2011 07:40:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (mistersoft) Comments RE: Thank you Belgium! http://www.osnews.com/thread?470170 http://www.osnews.com/thread?470170 At least Thom wrote a great article on this important subject ;-)

cheers from another "Hollander" Fri, 15 Apr 2011 08:29:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (evert) Comments RE: "imposed upon ISPs by courts" http://www.osnews.com/thread?470171 http://www.osnews.com/thread?470171
What about ones imposed by governments? That's the one that needs addressing 'cause it's already happening in many so-called democratic countries outside of Europe.


[1] democracy != freedom (this mistake is often made. sometimes, you might have more freedom under a dictatorship than in a democracy)

[2] we'll install a few proxies in europe :-) Fri, 15 Apr 2011 08:30:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (evert) Comments RE: "imposed upon ISPs by courts" http://www.osnews.com/thread?470172 http://www.osnews.com/thread?470172 Government imposed blocking is still allowed - in theory. It has to consistant, predicatable and non-discriminatory. Randomly deciding to block pirate bay specifically would probably not fly, by being specific.

In fact in Denmark where ISPs are currently blocking the pirate bay on court order, will also have a consitition forbidding legislation that targets individuals and individual organizations, so it would be impossible to through legislation.

Now, the problem is what they will do when someone draw the child porn card, because will the legislation is technically invalid, we do have a law blocking specific child porn sites, there just no one who wants to sue the government for the right to watch child pornography. Fri, 15 Apr 2011 08:32:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Carewolf) Comments RE: Thank you Belgium! http://www.osnews.com/thread?470173 http://www.osnews.com/thread?470173 Now chop chop, get back to not forming a government! Us Dutch should annex Flanders anyway, if only for those cute girls with the soft 'g' ;) . Fri, 15 Apr 2011 08:33:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Thom_Holwerda) Comments RE: Possibly outlawed? http://www.osnews.com/thread?470175 http://www.osnews.com/thread?470175 To be fair, ISPs don't do it at their own will. Because filtering leads to loss of customers and costs money. And I doubt that the copyright enforcement monopolistic unions will be compensating these ISPs for filtering and loss of customers. In fact, there has not been a single instance where an ISP was payed for the filtering expenses. Fri, 15 Apr 2011 09:08:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (JAlexoid) Comments RE[2]: Possibly outlawed? http://www.osnews.com/thread?470177 http://www.osnews.com/thread?470177
In fact, there has not been a single instance where an ISP was payed for the filtering expenses.


Of course not as up until not MAFIAA-like entities have just threatened with court. Now that it's not possible anymore they'll have to pay ISPs in order for them to start/continue filtering. Some ISPs will most likely take the deal if those aforementioned entities are willing to pay enough, greed is just such a powerful force. Fri, 15 Apr 2011 09:36:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (WereCatf) Comments RE[2]: Thank you Belgium! http://www.osnews.com/thread?470179 http://www.osnews.com/thread?470179
Now chop chop, get back to not forming a government! Us Dutch should annex Flanders anyway, if only for those cute girls with the soft 'g' ;) .

Belgium is the world's first anarchist state ;)

Pretty interesting experiment when you think of it. Fri, 15 Apr 2011 10:39:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Neolander) Comments RE[3]: Thank you Belgium! http://www.osnews.com/thread?470180 http://www.osnews.com/thread?470180
"Now chop chop, get back to not forming a government! Us Dutch should annex Flanders anyway, if only for those cute girls with the soft 'g' ;) .

Belgium is the world's first anarchist state ;) "

Make that "world's first sort of working anarchist state" ;) Fri, 15 Apr 2011 10:42:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (tunkaflux) Comments RE[2]: Possibly outlawed? http://www.osnews.com/thread?470192 http://www.osnews.com/thread?470192 Not exactly, some ISP's actually market that they do filtering.

But they filter porn and other things which certain people of a certain relgious prefer not to see and I guess also their kids.

Also pretty much every ISP does do filtering from time to time, but for technical reasons. To prevent DOS-attacks, prevent spam from getting out their networks and so on. Fri, 15 Apr 2011 13:02:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Lennie) Comments Woooooohooooo http://www.osnews.com/thread?470204 http://www.osnews.com/thread?470204 I know it is too early for celebration, but:

Wooooooooohoooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!

Living in Denmark and all, you see ;) Fri, 15 Apr 2011 15:30:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (dylansmrjones) Comments RE: Possibly outlawed? http://www.osnews.com/thread?470205 http://www.osnews.com/thread?470205 Considering the Danish ISP's have fought in court for years against filtering I don't think they will apply filtering on their own. That's effectively prohibited anyway - in Denmark (though the politicians are trying to extend the filtering).

If this ends with a court ruling banning forced filtering it will be in the 11th hour for Denmark, considering the new political course from the "liberal"-conservative government. Fri, 15 Apr 2011 15:33:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (dylansmrjones) Comments Freedom reigns in ******** http://www.osnews.com/thread?470210 http://www.osnews.com/thread?470210 I'm just glad that the ******** here don't do any filtering. I am free to talk about ********** or ******** without fear of ************.

V is for V******* Fri, 15 Apr 2011 16:53:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (fretinator) Comments RE[5]: "imposed upon ISPs by courts" http://www.osnews.com/thread?470220 http://www.osnews.com/thread?470220 Well, the Danish legislators cannot legally enact laws forcing censorship, since the Danish constitution strictly prohibits any kind of censurship and other preventive measures in regard to information exchange. Fri, 15 Apr 2011 18:43:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (dylansmrjones) Comments RE: Woooooohooooo http://www.osnews.com/thread?470309 http://www.osnews.com/thread?470309 I know exactly what you mean. Live in Denmark too. This is going straight on my facebook wall. Hopefully setting up a different DNS server will be a thing of the past.

/UniEdited 2011-04-16 20:30 UTC Sat, 16 Apr 2011 20:29:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (MyNameIsNot4Letter) Comments RE[2]: Woooooohooooo http://www.osnews.com/thread?470360 http://www.osnews.com/thread?470360 I posted it immediately on my FB-wall. I couldn't stop myself. I'm looking forward to the day where I won't need an alternative DNS-server setup to access piratebay ;) Sun, 17 Apr 2011 09:10:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (dylansmrjones) Comments