OSNews: http://www.osnews.com/story/25430/Microsoft_To_Start_To_Automatically_Update_Internet_Explorer Exploring the Future of Computing en-us Copyright 2001-2013, David Adams adam+nospam@osnews.com Fri, 24 May 2013 16:31:37 GMT http://www.osnews.com/images/osnews.gif OSNews.com http://www.osnews.com Not too excited by these news http://www.osnews.com/thread?500182 http://www.osnews.com/thread?500182 The reason I do not use Chrome is that its EULA requires that you use only the latest version. It will download and install new version whenever it wants and you can do nothing about it (except say goodbye to Chrome).

Firefox is testing my patience with a new (n+1).0 version every month, that breaks all the Add-ons (and Add-ons was one of the reasons for using Firefox).

I want the freedom to decide if and when I will upgrade. I also expect good backwards compatibility and a sensible version numbering scheme.Edited 2011-12-15 17:22 UTC Thu, 15 Dec 2011 17:21:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (dquadros) Comments RE: Not too excited by these news http://www.osnews.com/thread?500183 http://www.osnews.com/thread?500183 Microsoft are providing a tool to do that.

My main concern is that I particularly hate churn change, security updates in version is fine ... but behavioural changes would be a problem IMO. Thu, 15 Dec 2011 17:26:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (lucas_maximus) Comments Comment by joekiser http://www.osnews.com/thread?500184 http://www.osnews.com/thread?500184 So does that mean that we'll finally get an update to IE8 on Windows XP?

I know, I know, XP is 10 years old, but my workplace is still rolling out new installs (Dell 790's) with XP on them. Thu, 15 Dec 2011 17:27:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (joekiser) Comments Opera already does auto-update, but not silently http://www.osnews.com/thread?500185 http://www.osnews.com/thread?500185 Opera does it semi-automatically - it automatically downloads the update in the background, but does prompt you that it's ready to go when you are.

Although I think there is a setting to make it fully-silent if you specifically want that. Thu, 15 Dec 2011 17:29:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (johnnysaucepn) Comments Hmm...and it's about time! http://www.osnews.com/thread?500187 http://www.osnews.com/thread?500187 Maybe now IE can stop being the poster child of not supporting newer or updated technologies.

I, myself, am not a fan of IE for the simple reason that what works on other browsers just simply breaks on IE without applying some kind of craptacular hack that will HOPEFULLY make what I'm trying to do work.

I just pray to whatever god or deity is listening that they don't hose the versions of Windows that still have IE tied to the OS because of some bad module that got overlooked in QA. Thu, 15 Dec 2011 17:31:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (WarpKat) Comments RE: Not too excited by these news http://www.osnews.com/thread?500188 http://www.osnews.com/thread?500188
Firefox is testing my patience with a new (n+1).0 version every month, that breaks all the Add-ons (and Add-ons was one of the reasons for using Firefox).


I use around 30 plugins and none of them have broken because of the new Firefox versioning. Guess you just have bad luck. *shrug* Thu, 15 Dec 2011 17:36:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (ilovebeer) Comments Firefox updates automatically too http://www.osnews.com/thread?500189 http://www.osnews.com/thread?500189 I don't know about you guys but Firefox already updates automatically. Firefox downloads new versions in the background and the next time you launch the browser... boom "User Account Control. Do you want to allow this program to make changes to your computer?..." Answer YES (or CONTINUE in Vista) and the update is installed. They just don't do it behind your back. Thu, 15 Dec 2011 17:48:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (AnythingButVista) Comments Woah! http://www.osnews.com/thread?500194 http://www.osnews.com/thread?500194 Finally some common sense coming out of M$! Woohoo, I'm so happy for all the web developers out there. This is a great day for all of us! Thu, 15 Dec 2011 18:26:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (1c3d0g) Comments RE: Woah! http://www.osnews.com/thread?500200 http://www.osnews.com/thread?500200 You obviously don't work for a company whose entire business process works through an online app written for IE 6. I am a Linux user myself, so I don't care personally. But this is just stupid. Microsoft is going to break a lot of peoples system doing this. And they were the ones who insisted on doing things their own way back then. Its their fault that there is all the fragmentation. Now you are just going to have to turn off updates altogether which isn't good for anyone. Thu, 15 Dec 2011 18:49:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (TechGeek) Comments RE[2]: Woah! http://www.osnews.com/thread?500202 http://www.osnews.com/thread?500202 Did you read the article? Thu, 15 Dec 2011 18:52:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (lucas_maximus) Comments RE: Not too excited by - plugins http://www.osnews.com/thread?500204 http://www.osnews.com/thread?500204 NoScript
Convergence
Pentadactyle
Ghostery

When Chrome has those plugins available then I'll have a hard time not changing primary browsers. I'm not sure that NotScript is the same as NoScript. Pentadactyle is there I think but haven't checked the latest. Ghostery I haven't looked for at all. Convergence is going to be a while before it shows up.

There are a number of other more interesting plugins I keep handy but for those types of special needs I can always keep a use dedicated FF install handy. Thu, 15 Dec 2011 19:14:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (jabbotts) Comments RE: Comment by joekiser http://www.osnews.com/thread?500205 http://www.osnews.com/thread?500205 joking aside, IE8 is the "latest version supported by the OS" so it's unlikely to see an IE9 update. Let's just hope the IE8 patches keep flowing until XP support ends. Thu, 15 Dec 2011 19:15:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (jabbotts) Comments RE[2]: Not too excited by - plugins http://www.osnews.com/thread?500206 http://www.osnews.com/thread?500206 Ghostery is already in the Chrome store btw Thu, 15 Dec 2011 19:19:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (lucas_maximus) Comments RE[2]: Woah! - updateds already off http://www.osnews.com/thread?500207 http://www.osnews.com/thread?500207 Places that rely on an IE6 only webapp probably already have system updates turned off. They'll likely be feeding updates in from a WSUS or similar appliance after vetting the patches.

It also depends on how the update is fed in too though. Will IE have it's own internal update mechanism or will it actually become a required update through the monthly Windows Update site.

Given Windows update history; it shouldn't have automatically installed updates in the first place really. Notification of available updates; sure. Maybe even download updates and let the user decide when to install. Fully automatic updates lead to things like the programming abortion known as Microsoft Office File-Validation plugin not to mention the PowerPoint update which broke PowerPoint's ability to open saved files. Thu, 15 Dec 2011 19:21:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (jabbotts) Comments RE: Comment by joekiser http://www.osnews.com/thread?500208 http://www.osnews.com/thread?500208
So does that mean that we'll finally get an update to IE8 on Windows XP?


I hope it meant that we'll finally get IE removed on Windows XP Thu, 15 Dec 2011 19:34:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (fithisux) Comments RE[3]: Not too excited by - plugins http://www.osnews.com/thread?500209 http://www.osnews.com/thread?500209 cheers.

I believe Pentadactyle is also if I remember stumbling on it there first when looking for a vimperator equivalent. now if they could only adjust the API to support Convergence. Thu, 15 Dec 2011 19:34:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (jabbotts) Comments RE[4]: Not too excited by - plugins http://www.osnews.com/thread?500212 http://www.osnews.com/thread?500212 I only spotted ghostery today by chance ... tbh I don't really run any plugins except for JSONView, Gmail, Adblock and YSLOW Thu, 15 Dec 2011 19:39:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (lucas_maximus) Comments ahh this is totally nice :p http://www.osnews.com/thread?500214 http://www.osnews.com/thread?500214 @work we use a couple of programs that work only on IE8... (recently went from IE7 only to 8 lol)

So if they do this, those programs will AUTOMATICLY FAIL HORRIBLY!!

I recoice!

As this will put an end to users depending on this junk browser and to the junk programs that depends on this junk!

Thank you God for MS's stupidity Thu, 15 Dec 2011 19:42:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (andih) Comments RE[4]: Not too excited by - plugins http://www.osnews.com/thread?500215 http://www.osnews.com/thread?500215 Pentadactyle Thu, 15 Dec 2011 19:44:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (andih) Comments If Opera can refrain from... http://www.osnews.com/thread?500217 http://www.osnews.com/thread?500217 ...pushing into user's throat some heavily modified UI and/or function (eg. the mouse gesture in 11.50) that would be nice. Keeeping a consistent and minimalist UI, yet without changing everything "just to see if that please some peers over the mountains"

Right now using 11.52 and don't plan to change anything with that : stable, plugins updates without annoyance, smooth, a good release. My father told me he upgraded Opera and had all of its UI messed up.

The typical Opera annoyance :/

Kochise Thu, 15 Dec 2011 19:45:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Kochise) Comments Thank You!! http://www.osnews.com/thread?500223 http://www.osnews.com/thread?500223 That would be useful, if they lowered the os requirement for ie9+! Thu, 15 Dec 2011 20:39:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Brunis) Comments Comment by graudeejs http://www.osnews.com/thread?500225 http://www.osnews.com/thread?500225 Now after silent update of IE, it will "silently" reboot windows, as usual practice of installing/reinstalling/updating software on Windows ;) Thu, 15 Dec 2011 21:29:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (graudeejs) Comments RE[2]: Woah! http://www.osnews.com/thread?500226 http://www.osnews.com/thread?500226 No, you don't know what I do. And if the company is too lazy, ignorant or stupid to update their application, then they deserve to go bankrupt. It's their own fucking fault.

Microsoft has done an excellent move here. The Internet continues to evolve, if you can't handle it, DON'T be a web developer. Better yet, unplug from the Internet and go fishing or something, where you can use the same old tools as the Vikings. Thu, 15 Dec 2011 21:30:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (1c3d0g) Comments RE: Not too excited by these news http://www.osnews.com/thread?500228 http://www.osnews.com/thread?500228
Firefox is testing my patience with a new (n+1).0 version every month, that breaks all the Add-ons (and Add-ons was one of the reasons for using Firefox).


Have you installed Add-ons compatibility reporter?
https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/add-on-compatibility-...

That addons will do a great service to report Mozilla about broken addons. Thu, 15 Dec 2011 21:54:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Finalzone) Comments Lets wait for the forth of July http://www.osnews.com/thread?500232 http://www.osnews.com/thread?500232 All those business internal web apps that cannot get past IE 6 that now will not work will be fun. Thu, 15 Dec 2011 22:27:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (oiaohm) Comments RE: If Opera can refrain from... http://www.osnews.com/thread?500233 http://www.osnews.com/thread?500233 The UI wasn't messed up, just the outlying DEFAULT skin. If you want to same look as you have now you can just change the skin and maybe change a .few other UI options depending on how you had it set up Thu, 15 Dec 2011 22:32:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Spiron) Comments RE: Not too excited by these news http://www.osnews.com/thread?500234 http://www.osnews.com/thread?500234
The reason I do not use Chrome is that its EULA requires that you use only the latest version. It will download and install new version whenever it wants and you can do nothing about it (except say goodbye to Chrome).


Use Chromium instead.

I want the freedom to decide if and when I will upgrade.


Man, use a package manager! Thu, 15 Dec 2011 22:34:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Damnshock) Comments RE: Not too excited by these news http://www.osnews.com/thread?500235 http://www.osnews.com/thread?500235
The reason I do not use Chrome is that its EULA requires that you use only the latest version. It will download and install new version whenever it wants and you can do nothing about it (except say goodbye to Chrome).

Firefox is testing my patience with a new (n+1).0 version every month, that breaks all the Add-ons (and Add-ons was one of the reasons for using Firefox).

I want the freedom to decide if and when I will upgrade. I also expect good backwards compatibility and a sensible version numbering scheme.


Firefox doesn't break add-ons ... although some addons (hosted external to addons.mozilla.org) do break themselves.

By this I mean that addons themselves check the browser version that they are running under. If the browser versions says it is higher than expected by the addon, the addon simply declares ITSELF incompatible, whether it actually is, or not.

In truth, well over 99% of addons will still work fine under a new version number, even if the addons themselves think they won't. You can download a tool from the addons.mozilla.org site, called the Addon compatibility Reporter, that will force a recalcitrant addon to run even if the addon has declared itself incompatible. This tool will let you re-instate the majority of addons that have refused to run under a new browser version. Thu, 15 Dec 2011 23:17:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (lemur2) Comments RE[3]: Woah! http://www.osnews.com/thread?500236 http://www.osnews.com/thread?500236 I think he was referring to the companies using the product which relies on IE6, rather than the developer of said product.

For a small business using say, an IE6 only CMS... that still represents a big deal in terms of investment for them and maybe they don't see value in replacing it.

I'm sure you enjoy being on the cutting edge but not everyone is set up to be so flexable; The people this might affect probably wouldn't even know it's coming until it's pushed out and they can't do their job

I'm guessing that Microsoft will allow those using WSUS (or perhaps group policy) to opt out as they created this compatibility mess in the first place *shakes fist*. Thu, 15 Dec 2011 23:32:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (BushLin) Comments RE[4]: Woah! http://www.osnews.com/thread?500238 http://www.osnews.com/thread?500238 Exactly. Its easy to say that they should just update their software. But there are probably companies who have many millions of dollars tied up in their business process that hinges on IE 6. And while hopefully all of them are in the process of upgrading, its not an overnight process. For Microsoft to just announce something so drastic like this out of the blue, is just asinine on their part. Thats assuming that this really will be a "no choice update whether you like it or not thing", and not a "no, really, update IE, please?" thing.Edited 2011-12-16 00:07 UTC Fri, 16 Dec 2011 00:06:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (TechGeek) Comments Automatic, Forced Updates http://www.osnews.com/thread?500240 http://www.osnews.com/thread?500240 They are a Godsend for the clueless. Personally, I like having my Linux package manager handle things for me by notifying me when updates are available. Firefox is a part of that system. For the clueless, however, that isn't enough. They may get the notification, but they will never actually do the update. There is merit to forced updates. Fri, 16 Dec 2011 00:47:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Peter Besenbruch) Comments RE[2]: Not too excited by these news http://www.osnews.com/thread?500241 http://www.osnews.com/thread?500241 LMFAO... you know the situation has gotten out of hand when there's a damn add-on to tell you how many others of your add-ons will not work with the latest Mozilla seemingly monthly, minimal-change, high version inflation release. This just goes to show how pathetic the situation really is.Edited 2011-12-16 01:03 UTC Fri, 16 Dec 2011 01:03:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (UltraZelda64) Comments RE: Comment by graudeejs http://www.osnews.com/thread?500243 http://www.osnews.com/thread?500243 Note that safari also have the same issue of requiring a reboot on MacOSX Fri, 16 Dec 2011 02:09:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (dvhh) Comments RE[3]: Not too excited by these news http://www.osnews.com/thread?500244 http://www.osnews.com/thread?500244
LMFAO... you know the situation has gotten out of hand when there's a damn add-on to tell you how many others of your add-ons will not work with the latest Mozilla seemingly monthly, minimal-change, high version inflation release. This just goes to show how pathetic the situation really is.


The addons hosted by Mozilla at it addon site addons.mozilla.org are all checked automatically.

This tool allows people to check and report on addons which they are using which have nothing to do with Mozilla.

It isn't Mozilla's fault in any way if the user wants to install external software that reports itself as incompatible even when it isn't. If you want to laugh at anybody, laugh at the external-to-Mozilla addon authors who haven't followed guidelines, test only for the browser version like they are NOT supposed to, and yet they also haven't kept their addons up to date with the browser versions.

Sheesh! At least try to get the story even half right.Edited 2011-12-16 02:54 UTC Fri, 16 Dec 2011 02:51:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (lemur2) Comments RE: Comment by joekiser http://www.osnews.com/thread?500255 http://www.osnews.com/thread?500255 Your workplace is seriously behind the times. It's also opening itself up to significant security risks. Fri, 16 Dec 2011 05:33:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (cmost) Comments automatically update? - NO http://www.osnews.com/thread?500260 http://www.osnews.com/thread?500260
who have turned on automatic updating via Windows Update


So that's that. If someone has automatic updates enabled, shouldn't be surprised when an automatic update actually happens.

In other news, I set the alarm for 6 o'clock and at 6 the alarm went off. Fri, 16 Dec 2011 06:42:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (l3v1) Comments Good deal but... http://www.osnews.com/thread?500263 http://www.osnews.com/thread?500263 does this mean that IE9 is coming to XP?

This would be a Good Thing for organizations. IE has a longer update cycle with incremental updates making it easier to manage in corporate environments. Fri, 16 Dec 2011 07:36:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (frderi) Comments Why .au and .br? Slashdot has the answer: http://www.osnews.com/thread?500265 http://www.osnews.com/thread?500265 They decided to do it alphabetically. So they spent $13 million conducting market research in which they asked focus groups to name a country that starts with A and another that starts with B. After spending another $4 million running statistical analysis on the results (plus an additional $87 million trying to keep the analysis computers running, since after all they were Windows machines), they came to the conclusion that the ideal A country is Australia and the ideal B country is Brazil. Shortly they will be running a $150 million ad campaign depicting Kermit the Frog and Al Gore traveling from Australia to Brazil. Fri, 16 Dec 2011 07:45:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (kragil) Comments RE[4]: Not too excited by these news http://www.osnews.com/thread?500268 http://www.osnews.com/thread?500268 Which translate to "blame the add-on developers for not spending a week testing their code on a dozen of versions". Much better than blaming Mozilla for not being able to offer a stable API, which is the part they should have copied from Chrome before copying the version scheme. Fri, 16 Dec 2011 07:50:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (cyrilleberger) Comments RE: Why .au and .br? Slashdot has the answer: http://www.osnews.com/thread?500277 http://www.osnews.com/thread?500277 Newsflash Andorra and Belize launch a protest at the United Nations ... Fri, 16 Dec 2011 08:56:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (clasqm) Comments RE[2]: Comment by joekiser http://www.osnews.com/thread?500284 http://www.osnews.com/thread?500284 Actually the numbers say something else. Exploits on Windows XP is going down and exploits on Windows Vista/7 is going up.

Obviously it will take time for Windows 7 to be as bad as Windows XP. Fri, 16 Dec 2011 10:29:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Lennie) Comments RE[2]: Not too excited by these news http://www.osnews.com/thread?500285 http://www.osnews.com/thread?500285 I don't like how Chrome works and I can't trust Chromium either.

Ever since they made a mistake where cookies/ids got send to Google and could be correlated even in Chromium not just Chrome.

I feel I just can't trust Chromium, it is better than the situation with Microsoft obviously because the source isn't even available. Fri, 16 Dec 2011 10:36:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Lennie) Comments RE[2]: Woah! http://www.osnews.com/thread?500286 http://www.osnews.com/thread?500286 I don't believe this is to get people to move of of IE6.

Microsoft wants a new IE release every year, this system is to prevent people still running IE10, IE11, IE12, IE13 in a few years from now. Fri, 16 Dec 2011 10:40:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Lennie) Comments RE[5]: Not too excited by these news http://www.osnews.com/thread?500289 http://www.osnews.com/thread?500289 It the open source mentality ... churn is okay. Fri, 16 Dec 2011 11:30:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (lucas_maximus) Comments RE[3]: Woah! - updateds already off http://www.osnews.com/thread?500296 http://www.osnews.com/thread?500296 We have (tens, hundreds of?) thousands of web developer who have spend millions of hours working around "bugs" in IE. And it's probably the least pleasant part of our job (well... maybe trying to sell our services is worse).

And why? I strongly believe that all these "bugs" are a result of a conscious decision to make IE render pages differently than all other browsers. It pays off to disobey standards when you have a 90% monopoly (like they used to) - a large number of "web developers" didn't even check their sites in other browsers. And it's the other browsers that looked bad, not IE. Just like Open/Libre Office pays for MS fscking up efforts to establish a common document format. How many times have you heard that OpenOffice sucks because it messes up MS Office documents?

So, to sum up - incompetent managers rely on technology from an evil company and hire incompetent developers. Why the hell am I to pay for it??? Fri, 16 Dec 2011 12:27:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (muszek) Comments RE: ahh this is totally nice :p http://www.osnews.com/thread?500307 http://www.osnews.com/thread?500307 You aren't aware then that IE9 (and 10) have a IE8 rendering mode ... and the only thing you need to do to force it into IE8 mode is a meta tag in the head.Edited 2011-12-16 13:41 UTC Fri, 16 Dec 2011 13:41:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (lucas_maximus) Comments RE[4]: Woah! - updateds already off http://www.osnews.com/thread?500309 http://www.osnews.com/thread?500309 Most problems with IE (especially past 7) is a result of sloppy web developers, some who don't understand why the browser has problems rendering pages when they put block elements within a inline element.

IE7 can be a PITA with absolute and relative positioning if you aren't careful, but static positioning it is largely fine. Fri, 16 Dec 2011 13:43:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (lucas_maximus) Comments RE[4]: Woah! - updateds already off http://www.osnews.com/thread?500310 http://www.osnews.com/thread?500310 I agree that killing off the more incompatible IE versions is a good thing. IE6 is a horrible mess for any web dev to have to support.

http://www.ie6countdown.com/

Interesting that I got modded down for suggesting users review updates before isntalling. I can't really take the modding system seriously though. Meh.. can't please everyone.. even with solid recommendations for practicing safe hex. ;) Fri, 16 Dec 2011 13:43:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (jabbotts) Comments RE[5]: Woah! - updateds already off http://www.osnews.com/thread?500311 http://www.osnews.com/thread?500311 It's the web developer's fault that IE6/7 can't render standards compliant HTML that renders properly in every other browser? Wow.. just... wow. Fri, 16 Dec 2011 13:45:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (jabbotts) Comments RE[6]: Woah! - updateds already off http://www.osnews.com/thread?500314 http://www.osnews.com/thread?500314
It's the web developer's fault that IE6/7 can't render standards compliant HTML that renders properly in every other browser? Wow.. just... wow.


They can render standard compliant markup absolutely fine in the vast majority of cases. Yes you need a valid DOCTYPE declaration ...

http://www.quirksmode.org/css/quirksmode.html

A lot of times, complaints are made by web developers that would know a inline element from a block element.

IE (including 8) is stricter than other browsers, most web browsers let you get away with all sorts of things that are wrong.

But it doesn't seems to matter what someone says ... people have been told to believe "IE does everything wrong, and Firefox does it right". Fri, 16 Dec 2011 14:13:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (lucas_maximus) Comments RE[5]: Woah! - updateds already off http://www.osnews.com/thread?500317 http://www.osnews.com/thread?500317 I have a car that only turns left. So if you only turn right, you will largely be fine.

IE Fri, 16 Dec 2011 14:37:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (muszek) Comments RE[7]: Woah! - updateds already off http://www.osnews.com/thread?500319 http://www.osnews.com/thread?500319

vast majority of cases


Yet there are still enough cases where the web developer has to use dirty hacks and hoops to get a page to display in IE when it displays fine in FF, Chrome and Safari. Granted, in other cases FF has caused grief and dirty hacks. It's not like it doesn't have room for improvement also but it's grief has been far less frequent. Fri, 16 Dec 2011 14:46:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (jabbotts) Comments RE[7]: Woah! - updateds already off http://www.osnews.com/thread?500320 http://www.osnews.com/thread?500320
They can render standard compliant markup absolutely fine in the vast majority of cases.


No they can't. Sure, if you write a really simple code. But if you want to implement more complex designs, you're almost always running into problems. And almost always it's problems with IE, not any other browser.

Yes you need a valid DOCTYPE declaration ...


... and you're doing it again. First you implied that positioning is the only problem, now we're supposed to think a proper doctype solves everything. We're not saying IE renderns faulty code wrong. We're saying we write a valid code, this piece of crap renders it wrong and we need to spend a lot of our time finding the problem and working around it. Fri, 16 Dec 2011 14:47:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (muszek) Comments RE: Not too excited by these news http://www.osnews.com/thread?500321 http://www.osnews.com/thread?500321
The reason I do not use Chrome is that its EULA requires that you use only the latest version. It will download and install new version whenever it wants and you can do nothing about it (except say goodbye to Chrome).


Although the EULA does say you have to stay up to date, Google released an Administrative template for group policies to disable the auto update, and there are also registry keys to disable it. We use the group policy at work so that we can test updates before they are pushed to make sure it doesn't break our Chrome Frame enabled software.

http://www.sitepoint.com/how-to-disable-google-chrome-updates/ Fri, 16 Dec 2011 14:48:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (pulse301) Comments RE[8]: Woah! - updateds already off http://www.osnews.com/thread?500322 http://www.osnews.com/thread?500322
No they can't. Sure, if you write a really simple code. But if you want to implement more complex designs, you're almost always running into problems. And almost always it's problems with IE, not any other browser.


Absolute crap, most of it is caused by sloppy CSS and other browsers letting you off.

I was trying to find a decent center plugin for jQuery ... ended up writing my own that worked in all browsers (including IE6 which jQuery supports).

now we're supposed to think a proper doctype solves everything. We're not saying IE renderns faulty code wrong. We're saying we write a valid code, this piece of crap renders it wrong and we need to spend a lot of our time finding the problem and working around it.


No it doesn't ... Also IE8 renders XHTML and CSS 2.1 99.9% the same as Firefox. IE7 has the odd problem ... and tbh I haven't supported IE6 for at least a year now.

As I said Absolute positioning is buggy in IE7, but static positioning is absolutely fine.

Also lets not pretend that every browser is wonderful. Chrome, Firefox, IE and Opera all render borders differently, yeah sure solid works fine ... but use Dashed, Inset etc and they all do everything differently.

Mozilla does a few odd things with inline-block as well , sticking a 5px margin when there shouldn't be any (even after CSS reset, using YUI 2 variant). Fri, 16 Dec 2011 14:57:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (lucas_maximus) Comments RE[8]: Woah! - updateds already off http://www.osnews.com/thread?500323 http://www.osnews.com/thread?500323 It depends ... I have zero complaints with IE8.

TBH I can write cross browser CSS without hacks, you know how?

I actually try to understand what the browser is doing instead of throwing a fit and resorting to an alternative stylesheet. After a while you actually know what it is doing pretty quickly and how to fix it. Fri, 16 Dec 2011 15:00:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (lucas_maximus) Comments RE[3]: Not too excited by these news http://www.osnews.com/thread?500326 http://www.osnews.com/thread?500326 Try SRWare Iron, it is Chromium with the spyware removed:

http://www.srware.net/en/software_srware_iron.php Fri, 16 Dec 2011 15:17:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (BluenoseJake) Comments RE[9]: Woah! - updateds already off http://www.osnews.com/thread?500329 http://www.osnews.com/thread?500329 IE6 and IE7 where the topics of conversation. IE8 has been pretty good so far for us also. And no fits needed to fix things either. Fri, 16 Dec 2011 16:57:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (jabbotts) Comments RE[10]: Woah! - updateds already off http://www.osnews.com/thread?500397 http://www.osnews.com/thread?500397 And as I keep saying IE7 isn't as bad in anyway shape or form as IE6. There aren't major problems like Alpha Image Loader and HasLayout problems are rare.

But you guys just keep saying "It is really hard", yet I haven't actually seen any decent explanation of what you think the major stumbling blocks are, you can easily to HTML5 with boiler plate included. Sat, 17 Dec 2011 09:31:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (lucas_maximus) Comments RE[2]: Not too excited by these news http://www.osnews.com/thread?500427 http://www.osnews.com/thread?500427 I had a experience with a IE6 plugin that made me realise just how expensive and serious the problem can be.
The short version is it involved $6000 worth of MRI scans a surgeon could not read because the scan file only run on a IE6 plugin. Incidently he upgraded from IE6 long time ago.
I was not angry at Microsoft, but at companies that choose to run such files in a browsers based plugin and not updating their plugins. Sat, 17 Dec 2011 18:06:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (fran) Comments RE[6]: Woah! - updateds already off http://www.osnews.com/thread?500528 http://www.osnews.com/thread?500528 The car analogy ... really?

Most of the rendering bugs are pretty easy to code around and are well documented by now.

All browsers have bugs, IE7 is 5 or 6 years old now? If I compared it to Firefox 1.5 or 2, I know that both these browsers have problems with things like inline-block just as IE7 does.

I'd rather know what those bugs are, then have something like Firefox that has new and interesting problems every 6 weeks.Edited 2011-12-19 15:31 UTC Mon, 19 Dec 2011 15:28:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (lucas_maximus) Comments RE[3]: Not too excited by these news http://www.osnews.com/thread?501012 http://www.osnews.com/thread?501012 Well MS essentially encouraged such practices... when some open format* looms, that's what MS discourages (already forgot the circus around OpenDocument & Office "Open" XML?) / they were the ones who insisted on doing things their own way back then, in the times of IE6.

* the place of MRI data is in an open format, able to be reliably read by virtually anything
(anyway, I doubt the situation in question was really that much of a problem, there aren't that many MRI vendors, but there are many tools - also conversion tools - and often free ones, for example http://www.dclunie.com/medical-image-faq/html/
...with some quite ~standard formats (say, Analyze)) Thu, 22 Dec 2011 21:15:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (zima) Comments RE[4]: Not too excited by these news http://www.osnews.com/thread?501013 http://www.osnews.com/thread?501013 Also a visibly small effort with a bit unknown level of trustworthiness, one which would most likely replicate mistakes from Chromium (which doesn't have spyware... but has reliably trustworthy packagers in many distros), and lags behind it a bit. Thu, 22 Dec 2011 21:32:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (zima) Comments RE: Firefox updates automatically too http://www.osnews.com/thread?501016 http://www.osnews.com/thread?501016 Though TBH, exactly that the kind of "scary OS prompt" puts people off ...or, if they get used to it, opens the way for malware installers, etc. Thu, 22 Dec 2011 21:44:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (zima) Comments