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		<link>http://www.osnews.com/story/25518/Windows_8_Server_Gets_New_File_System_ReFS</link>
		<description>Exploring the Future of Computing</description>
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		<copyright>Copyright 2001-2013, David Adams</copyright>
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			<title>Looks good</title>
			<link>http://www.osnews.com/thread?503743</link>
			<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.osnews.com/thread?503743</guid>
			<description>Although some nice features of NTFS will be missing it uses some current FS &quot;best practices&quot; like B-trees, Copy on write, integrity checks and extends (like ZFS and BtrFS)<br />
<br />
MS has gone for complexity reduction (reduced feature set and NTFS code sharing) because otherwise you cannot ship a new production ready file system.<br />
<br />
That it shares a lot of code with NTFS could be nice for a reimplementation in alternative operating systems.</description>
			<pubDate>Tue, 17 Jan 2012 14:05:00 GMT</pubDate>
			<author>donotreply@osnews.com (kragil)</author>
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		<item>
			<title>Don't worry</title>
			<link>http://www.osnews.com/thread?503751</link>
			<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.osnews.com/thread?503751</guid>
			<description>Don't worry, ReFS is most likely to be scrapped before the Windows 8 Server release. Don't mod me down, you know it's true.</description>
			<pubDate>Tue, 17 Jan 2012 14:51:00 GMT</pubDate>
			<author>donotreply@osnews.com (Sodki)</author>
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		<item>
			<title>RE: Don't worry</title>
			<link>http://www.osnews.com/thread?503752</link>
			<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.osnews.com/thread?503752</guid>
			<description>Actually I know they're going with it. Linux will have btrfs (Oracle will make sure of it), Solaris and FreeBSD have ZFS so Windows Server is left waaaaaay behind and MS does not want that.<br />
<br />
Aint competition a great thing ?</description>
			<pubDate>Tue, 17 Jan 2012 14:57:00 GMT</pubDate>
			<author>donotreply@osnews.com (silviucc)</author>
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		<item>
			<title>What Will Be Removed</title>
			<link>http://www.osnews.com/thread?503759</link>
			<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.osnews.com/thread?503759</guid>
			<description>FTA:<br />
<br />
<div class="cquote">Q) What semantics or features of NTFS are no longer supported on ReFS?<br />
<br />
The NTFS features we have chosen to not support in ReFS are: named streams, object IDs, short names, compression, file level encryption (EFS), user data transactions, sparse, hard-links, extended attributes, and quotas. </div><br />
<br />
Some of those are useful features, even if they are underused.</description>
			<pubDate>Tue, 17 Jan 2012 15:33:00 GMT</pubDate>
			<author>donotreply@osnews.com (Pro-Competition)</author>
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		<item>
			<title>RE: Don't worry</title>
			<link>http://www.osnews.com/thread?503761</link>
			<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.osnews.com/thread?503761</guid>
			<description>After Vista launched with lots of features removed, Microsoft brought the Office team to work on Windows. Ever since then, whenever they announce and demo a feature, you can bet it's going to pop up in the operating system. So, yes, it is going to be in Server.Edited 2012-01-17 15:42 UTC</description>
			<pubDate>Tue, 17 Jan 2012 15:42:00 GMT</pubDate>
			<author>donotreply@osnews.com (dragossh)</author>
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		<item>
			<title>RE: What Will Be Removed</title>
			<link>http://www.osnews.com/thread?503762</link>
			<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.osnews.com/thread?503762</guid>
			<description><div class="cquote">Some of those are useful features, even if they are underused. </div><br />
<br />
True. But didn't NTFS go through several iterations?  Wikipedia says five versions:<br />
<br />
<div class="cquote">The NTFS on-disk format has five released versions:<br />
<br />
[ . . . ]<br />
<br />
V1.0 and V1.1 (and newer) are incompatible: that is, volumes written by NT 3.5x cannot be read by NT 3.1 until an update on the NT 3.5x CD is applied to NT 3.1, which also adds FAT long file name support.[9] V1.2 supports compressed files, named streams, ACL-based security, etc.[2] V3.0 added disk quotas, encryption, sparse files, reparse points, update sequence number (USN) journaling, the $Extend folder and its files, and reorganized security descriptors so that multiple files which use the same security setting can share the same descriptor.[2] V3.1 expanded the Master File Table (MFT) entries with redundant MFT record number (useful for recovering damaged MFT files). </div><br />
<br />
Nothing's stopping Microsoft from doing something similar again.</description>
			<pubDate>Tue, 17 Jan 2012 16:01:00 GMT</pubDate>
			<author>donotreply@osnews.com (cmchittom)</author>
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			<title>RE[2]: What Will Be Removed</title>
			<link>http://www.osnews.com/thread?503768</link>
			<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.osnews.com/thread?503768</guid>
			<description>That's my thought as well. As they implement ReFS onto the client (perhaps with Windows 9, perhaps with a service pack to Windows 8) they'll have to add important features that clients use.<br />
 <br />
 For the server environment, the features they removed won't be missed considering Storage Pools and ReFS (with copy on write semantics) supersede them. Server 8 will have deduplication, which takes care of the need for Sparse files, hard links, and compression. It's probably needlessly complex to support all the dropped features considering the new file system and storage pool.<br />
 <br />
 But for the client, Sparse files are critical because large files would take forever to allocate on typical HDDs. Hard links I'm not so sure about, because they are rarely used in Windows, but they are still nice to have for the client without dedup.<br />
 <br />
 Finally, removing those other features is actually a good thing considering malware. Often all those obscure NTFS features are used to hide malware so deep in NTFS only specialized tools can find them.Edited 2012-01-17 16:54 UTC</description>
			<pubDate>Tue, 17 Jan 2012 16:53:00 GMT</pubDate>
			<author>donotreply@osnews.com (hechacker1)</author>
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		<item>
			<title>RE[3]: What Will Be Removed</title>
			<link>http://www.osnews.com/thread?503770</link>
			<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.osnews.com/thread?503770</guid>
			<description><div class="cquote">Server 8 will have deduplication </div><br />
  Citation needed. I've just read exactly the opposite for ReFS(at least out of the box, it seems to be avail via third party addons)Edited 2012-01-17 17:06 UTC</description>
			<pubDate>Tue, 17 Jan 2012 17:02:00 GMT</pubDate>
			<author>donotreply@osnews.com (kragil)</author>
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		<item>
			<title>RE[4]: What Will Be Removed</title>
			<link>http://www.osnews.com/thread?503772</link>
			<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.osnews.com/thread?503772</guid>
			<description><a href="http://social.msdn.microsoft.com/Forums/zh/windowsdeveloperpreviewgeneral/thread/3f601771-1400-47c4-9aec-bb9bc45b2d85" rel="nofollow">http://social.msdn.microsoft.com/Forums/zh/windowsdeveloperpreviewg...</a>   <br />
   <br />
   It's implemented as a scrub job that runs in the background to deduplicate data after the fact.Edited 2012-01-17 17:19 UTC</description>
			<pubDate>Tue, 17 Jan 2012 17:05:00 GMT</pubDate>
			<author>donotreply@osnews.com (hechacker1)</author>
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		<item>
			<title>RE[5]: What Will Be Removed</title>
			<link>http://www.osnews.com/thread?503773</link>
			<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.osnews.com/thread?503773</guid>
			<description>RTFA: <br />
<br />
<div class="cquote">Q) How come ReFS does not have deduplication, second level caching between DRAM &amp; storage, and writable snapshots?<br />
<br />
ReFS does not itself offer deduplication. One side effect of its familiar, pluggable, file system architecture is that other deduplication products will be able to plug into ReFS the same way they do with NTFS.<br />
 </div></description>
			<pubDate>Tue, 17 Jan 2012 17:16:00 GMT</pubDate>
			<author>donotreply@osnews.com (kragil)</author>
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		<item>
			<title>RE[6]: What Will Be Removed</title>
			<link>http://www.osnews.com/thread?503775</link>
			<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.osnews.com/thread?503775</guid>
			<description>Hmm, a tradeoff I suppose. <br />
  <br />
  NTFS supports deduplicatation in server 8.<br />
 <br />
 I take back what I said about ReFS then. It doesn't supercede all the needed features.<br />
<br />
EDIT:<br />
<br />
Thinking about it for a minute, it does seem kind of a weird omission considering the support is already there for NTFS for dedup.<br />
<br />
But I guess the reason they decided to not support it is because it goes against having redundancy in the system. They specifically mention you only get checksum repairing when using mirrored storage pools, not parity. Though with parity errors are still logged with checksums.<br />
<br />
Still, it leaves an interesting opening for dedup while using ReFS. I know there is software that allows you to layer one file system on top of another. Presumably, you could layer an NTFS volume on top of ReFS to get advantages of both, but probably suffer a performance hit.<br />
<br />
Or just wait for Microsoft to implement it in future versions.Edited 2012-01-17 17:40 UTC</description>
			<pubDate>Tue, 17 Jan 2012 17:20:00 GMT</pubDate>
			<author>donotreply@osnews.com (hechacker1)</author>
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			<title>Comment by Luminair</title>
			<link>http://www.osnews.com/thread?503783</link>
			<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.osnews.com/thread?503783</guid>
			<description>more reason to predict the enthusiasts will be using windows 8 server!</description>
			<pubDate>Tue, 17 Jan 2012 17:59:00 GMT</pubDate>
			<author>donotreply@osnews.com (Luminair)</author>
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		<item>
			<title>Windows N</title>
			<link>http://www.osnews.com/thread?503787</link>
			<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.osnews.com/thread?503787</guid>
			<description>I just have to:^)<br />
  <br />
  One year back..<br />
  <br />
  <a href="http://www.osnews.com/permalink?456042" rel="nofollow">http://www.osnews.com/permalink?456042</a><br />
  <br />
  <a href="http://www.osnews.com/thread?456047" rel="nofollow">http://www.osnews.com/thread?456047</a><br />
<br />
Excuse the assinine attitude in the second comment.Edited 2012-01-17 18:34 UTC</description>
			<pubDate>Tue, 17 Jan 2012 18:30:00 GMT</pubDate>
			<author>donotreply@osnews.com (fran)</author>
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		<item>
			<title>RE[7]: What Will Be Removed</title>
			<link>http://www.osnews.com/thread?503796</link>
			<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.osnews.com/thread?503796</guid>
			<description>Dedupe is not built into NTFS on Windows 8.  It's a separate &quot;thing&quot; that runs on top of NTFS.<br />
<br />
<a href="http://blog.fosketts.net/2012/01/03/microsoft-adds-data-deduplication-ntfs-windows-8/?utm_source=feedburner&amp;utm_medium=feed&amp;utm_campaign=Feed%3A+StephenFoskettPackRat+%28Stephen+Foskett%2C+Pack+Rat%29" rel="nofollow">http://blog.fosketts.net/2012/01/03/microsoft-adds-data-deduplicati...</a> Edited 2012-01-17 19:52 UTC</description>
			<pubDate>Tue, 17 Jan 2012 19:49:00 GMT</pubDate>
			<author>donotreply@osnews.com (phoenix)</author>
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		<item>
			<title>RE: Windows N</title>
			<link>http://www.osnews.com/thread?503848</link>
			<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.osnews.com/thread?503848</guid>
			<description>Heh!</description>
			<pubDate>Thu, 19 Jan 2012 04:18:00 GMT</pubDate>
			<author>donotreply@osnews.com (Tuishimi)</author>
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		<item>
			<title>RE: Looks good</title>
			<link>http://www.osnews.com/thread?503870</link>
			<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.osnews.com/thread?503870</guid>
			<description><div class="cquote">Although some nice features of NTFS will be missing it uses some current FS &quot;best practices&quot; like B-trees, Copy on write, integrity checks and extends (like ZFS and BtrFS)<br />
 </div><br />
NTFS has all of these, but copy-on-write. SIS and VSC use something similiar, though. And unlike ZFS and BtrFS NTFS also has a working undelete function <img src="/images/emo/wink.gif" alt=";)" /> <br />
<br />
Other than that I agree, ReFS looks good. Let's wait and see where it is going.</description>
			<pubDate>Thu, 19 Jan 2012 09:45:00 GMT</pubDate>
			<author>donotreply@osnews.com (B. Janssen)</author>
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		<item>
			<title>liking the direction</title>
			<link>http://www.osnews.com/thread?503878</link>
			<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.osnews.com/thread?503878</guid>
			<description>I really like the work going into bit rot protection through checksums, this is the number one feature of ZFS for me. Yes de-dup and superior RAIDZ capability are really useful as well as snapshots. However bit rot has to be my number one worry as it's so easy to reproduce, through bad RAM, faulty controllers on the RAID Card, HDD controller etc.. so i think these checks are a minimum requirement of our information society.<br />
<br />
Slightly disappointed not to see de-dup, but this is a version 1 and ZFS went through quite a few versions to get where it is today.<br />
<br />
Ill have to reserve judgement on the storage spaces concept until i see how it works in the real world. <br />
<br />
My only worry is that each new feature added to ReFS will require a new version of Windows, i really hope that Microsoft can backport the features through updates and Service Packs, as i wouldn't want to keep going through each server to get fundamental file system features. Generally in today's Windows word you can work on the other principle, Windows 2003 skip 2008 2008R2, for some features it might compel me / us to go for 2012.<br />
<br />
Im also a little worried how this will work with Windows 7 / 2008R2, i personally think Microsoft could get a lot of good will by backporting this to Windows 7/2008R2.<br />
<br />
Obviously in an ideal world, the licence would be free and allow other OS's such as MacOSX and Linux to take advantage of it aswell, but i don't see it happening.</description>
			<pubDate>Thu, 19 Jan 2012 12:49:00 GMT</pubDate>
			<author>donotreply@osnews.com (REM2000)</author>
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		<item>
			<title>Patents is nowadays the name of the game</title>
			<link>http://www.osnews.com/thread?503897</link>
			<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.osnews.com/thread?503897</guid>
			<description>If you've read the news lately, you'll know that &quot;software patents&quot; are a main key there. <br />
<br />
Hey, getting free money from other people, like LG, even if LG invented what they are using. :-(<br />
 <br />
If you want to write a reader for that new filesystem, you know you'll have to...Edited 2012-01-19 18:17 UTC</description>
			<pubDate>Thu, 19 Jan 2012 18:07:00 GMT</pubDate>
			<author>donotreply@osnews.com (Nth_Man)</author>
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			<title>features dropped</title>
			<link>http://www.osnews.com/thread?503924</link>
			<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.osnews.com/thread?503924</guid>
			<description>they are dropping support for (among others) hardlinks, quota, encryption, compression, sparse files....<br />
<br />
I don't get it ?? rather very usefull features which all/most FS have... and MS drops them ?<br />
<br />
companies need quota<br />
efficient backups need hardlinks<br />
cheapos need compression<br />
government does not want encryption (ah..?)<br />
sparse files: very useful for databases<br />
<br />
nop... I don't and won't get it in this form :/</description>
			<pubDate>Thu, 19 Jan 2012 20:22:00 GMT</pubDate>
			<author>donotreply@osnews.com (TomF)</author>
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			<title>RE[2]: Looks good</title>
			<link>http://www.osnews.com/thread?504017</link>
			<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.osnews.com/thread?504017</guid>
			<description>BS. <br />
 NTFS is not B-tree based, has no file integrity checks and no extends and it misses a lot more features ZFS and BtrFS have. <br />
 Read the Wikipedia or something.Edited 2012-01-20 08:15 UTC</description>
			<pubDate>Fri, 20 Jan 2012 08:09:00 GMT</pubDate>
			<author>donotreply@osnews.com (kragil)</author>
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		<item>
			<title>RE: liking the direction</title>
			<link>http://www.osnews.com/thread?504032</link>
			<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.osnews.com/thread?504032</guid>
			<description><div class="cquote">I really like the work going into bit rot protection through checksums, this is the number one feature of ZFS for me. Yes de-dup and superior RAIDZ capability are really useful as well as snapshots. However bit rot has to be my number one worry as it's so easy to reproduce, through bad RAM, faulty controllers on the RAID Card, HDD controller etc.. so i think these checks are a minimum requirement of our information society. </div><br />
It seems that MS ReFS only has checksums for metadata, so the data itself might still be corrupted. ReFS exposes an API so a vendor can use checksums on data, but that is not default behavior.<br />
<br />
Thus, ReFS seems safer than NTFS, but will it be safe enough?</description>
			<pubDate>Fri, 20 Jan 2012 11:54:00 GMT</pubDate>
			<author>donotreply@osnews.com (Kebabbert)</author>
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		<item>
			<title>RE[2]: liking the direction</title>
			<link>http://www.osnews.com/thread?504058</link>
			<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.osnews.com/thread?504058</guid>
			<description><div class="cquote">It seems that MS ReFS only has checksums for metadata, so the data itself might still be corrupted. ReFS exposes an API so a vendor can use checksums on data, but that is not default behavior. </div><br />
<br />
From the article:<br />
<div class="cquote">In addition, we have added an option where the contents of a file are check-summed as well. When this option, known as âintegrity streams,â is enabled, ReFS always writes the file changes to a location different from the original one. This allocate-on-write technique ensures that pre-existing data is not lost due to the new write. The checksum update is done atomically with the data write, so that if power is lost during the write, we always have a consistently verifiable version of the file available whereby corruptions can be detected authoritatively...<br />
<br />
By default, when the /i switch is not specified, the behavior that the system chooses depends on whether the volume resides on a mirrored space. On a mirrored space, integrity is enabled because we expect the benefits to significantly outweigh the costs. Applications can always override this programmatically for individual files.<br />
 </div><br />
<br />
It's the default behavior when redundancy on spaces is present.  When that is true, we can use the data checksum to find a good copy if one exists and another is bad.  Without redundancy, all we can do with the checksum is prevent bad data going to applications - ie., start failing requests.  Since applications will not always deal with that gracefully, the benefit without redundancy is much more limited - where failure really is better than incorrect data.<br />
<br />
I realize many people might want to get religious on this point, but seriously, watch what happens when reads are failed under applications first.  Particularly consider what happens when a read for a block of code is failed, for example.  Then consider the fraction of that code that will actually be executed.<br />
<br />
- M // ReFS co-author</description>
			<pubDate>Fri, 20 Jan 2012 15:23:00 GMT</pubDate>
			<author>donotreply@osnews.com (malxau)</author>
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