OSNews: http://www.osnews.com/story/26060/Magenta_implements_Darwin_BSD_on_top_of_the_Linux_kernel Exploring the Future of Computing en-us Copyright 2001-2013, David Adams adam+nospam@osnews.com Wed, 19 Jun 2013 11:00:59 GMT http://www.osnews.com/images/osnews.gif OSNews.com http://www.osnews.com Darwin kernel anyone? http://www.osnews.com/thread?521584 http://www.osnews.com/thread?521584 Where is Puredarwin? Mon, 11 Jun 2012 18:46:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (fithisux) Comments not that i fully understand the amount of work http://www.osnews.com/thread?521591 http://www.osnews.com/thread?521591 now this is news for osnews Mon, 11 Jun 2012 20:05:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (lazar) Comments What for? http://www.osnews.com/thread?521592 http://www.osnews.com/thread?521592 The article mentions (repeated) what the project isn't designed to do, but I was curious as to what the goal of the project was. I mean, why create a software stack compatible with iPhone 1.0? The project page has this to say:

"This is a very weird project. You may ask, why am I doing this? The answer is: no f*cking idea ;) "

I think coding for coding's sake is awesome. That's great. But I guess I'm surprised someone went to all this trouble without a goal in mind. Mon, 11 Jun 2012 20:19:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (jessesmith) Comments Confused. Help!! http://www.osnews.com/thread?521593 http://www.osnews.com/thread?521593 It's all a bit beyond my level of understanding. Doesn't Darwin already have a kernel (XNU/Mach + BSD bits & bobs)? So here we're having a kernel on top of another kernel? Or is it just a BSD userland on top of a Linux kernel? Or are we talking about multiple userlands here? O_o?

Can someone explain this to me, preferably in grandma-friendly lingo? Mon, 11 Jun 2012 20:20:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (gan17) Comments Comment by foregam http://www.osnews.com/thread?521594 http://www.osnews.com/thread?521594 Binary compatible ≠ using the same binary format. You need ABI compliance too. Mon, 11 Jun 2012 20:26:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (foregam) Comments RE: Confused. Help!! http://www.osnews.com/thread?521595 http://www.osnews.com/thread?521595 I thought Drawing is a kernel (based on March+BSD). Mon, 11 Jun 2012 20:27:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (panzi) Comments RE[2]: Confused. Help!! http://www.osnews.com/thread?521596 http://www.osnews.com/thread?521596 That's what I thought as well. I mean, that's what uname says I have on my Mac.

But then I wanted to make sure before I posted, so I checked: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darwin_%28operating_system%29#...

...and Now I'm even more confuzed, obviously. Mon, 11 Jun 2012 20:34:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (gan17) Comments Comment by Nicholas Blachford http://www.osnews.com/thread?521597 http://www.osnews.com/thread?521597 Who needs BSD when you can have LSD! Mon, 11 Jun 2012 20:36:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Nicholas Blachford) Comments Almost the reverse of Debian/kFreeBSD http://www.osnews.com/thread?521609 http://www.osnews.com/thread?521609 This seems to be like the reverse of Debian/kFreeBSD, which is the Debian userland on top of the FreeBSD kernel. Mon, 11 Jun 2012 22:29:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (obsidian) Comments RE: Confused. Help!! http://www.osnews.com/thread?521617 http://www.osnews.com/thread?521617
It's all a bit beyond my level of understanding. Doesn't Darwin already have a kernel (XNU/Mach + BSD bits & bobs)? So here we're having a kernel on top of another kernel? Or is it just a BSD userland on top of a Linux kernel?


From my understanding, what she's doing is implementing some of Darwin's interfaces and capabilities on Linux. With that you have the kernel. The userland comes from Darwin/BSD.

I wonder if GNUstep's libraries can be used to fill some gaps... Mon, 11 Jun 2012 23:22:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Sodki) Comments RE: Almost the reverse of Debian/kFreeBSD http://www.osnews.com/thread?521619 http://www.osnews.com/thread?521619
This seems to be like the reverse of Debian/kFreeBSD, which is the Debian userland on top of the FreeBSD kernel.


This seems to be more than that. Debian/kFreeBSD is "just" Debian on top of kFreeBSD, without significant changes. For example, systemd cannot be used on Debian/kFreeBSD right now because kFreeBSD is missing some stuff that Linux has. A good analogy would be to port those things to kFreeBSD in order for systemd to work, for example. That's why Magenta (at least for me) looks much harder to accomplish.Edited 2012-06-11 23:30 UTC Mon, 11 Jun 2012 23:29:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Sodki) Comments Comment by Stephen! http://www.osnews.com/thread?521621 http://www.osnews.com/thread?521621 It's not her intention to allow iOS applications to run, but could it anyway? Mon, 11 Jun 2012 23:41:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Stephen!) Comments RE: What for? http://www.osnews.com/thread?521635 http://www.osnews.com/thread?521635 Ok, that's probably the worlds' best reason why to do anything. As such, I'll cut her some slack. I personally dislike darwin/bsd userland, but admire the kernel. Tue, 12 Jun 2012 01:50:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Bill Shooter of Bul) Comments RE[3]: Confused. Help!! http://www.osnews.com/thread?521647 http://www.osnews.com/thread?521647 Why are you confused?

Darwin is the OS with XNU as kernel.

OS X is Darwin + more. Tue, 12 Jun 2012 03:43:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (aliquis) Comments RE: Comment by Stephen! http://www.osnews.com/thread?521648 http://www.osnews.com/thread?521648 If you implement it all I guess so.

If you steal the parts needed maybe? =P Tue, 12 Jun 2012 03:44:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (aliquis) Comments RE: Comment by Stephen! http://www.osnews.com/thread?521649 http://www.osnews.com/thread?521649 Hmm. I was going to say "absolutely not" but it looks like that may be intended. Not sure.

I like this idea though! IMO one of the real problems with the GNU/Linux userland is lack of cohesiveness on the command line - it's just a bunch of stuff thrown together, and not everything works with everything else. Mounting as user on the CLI is a mess, power management is a kludge, managing WPA connections is hugely inconvenient and unintuitive... Having a better integrated CLI environment, as with the BSDs (especially OpenBSD), would be a massive improvement.

OTOH, I have to ask, why not just make a Darwin/XNU distribution? Tue, 12 Jun 2012 03:55:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Gullible Jones) Comments RE[2]: What for? http://www.osnews.com/thread?521659 http://www.osnews.com/thread?521659 Kernel of this project or of darwin/bsd? ;p Assuming the latter - isn't it some weird mix of Mach and BSD, despite hybridization still with not too stellar performance? (or maybe this bit, that I recall, was just something about the archaic Mac file system)Edited 2012-06-12 05:56 UTC Tue, 12 Jun 2012 05:56:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (zima) Comments RE[2]: Comment by Stephen! http://www.osnews.com/thread?521674 http://www.osnews.com/thread?521674
OTOH, I have to ask, why not just make a Darwin/XNU distribution?


My guess would be for hardware compatibility. Darwin's kernel is nice, but still has limited driver support. As far as I know, kexts designed for OS X (similar to loaded kernel modules on Linux but more powerful) can't be loaded on straight Darwin due to their integration with a lot of the OS X API stack. By using the Linux kernel, you'd get more hardware compatibility problems out of the way and free up time to concentrate specifically on the userland. Just my suspician. Tue, 12 Jun 2012 10:02:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (darknexus) Comments RE[3]: What for? http://www.osnews.com/thread?521696 http://www.osnews.com/thread?521696 I admire the FreeBSD kernel, always have. I never around to looking at the Darwin kernel. Linux isn't badly designed, IMHO, but it was the second one I really dug into. Tue, 12 Jun 2012 14:05:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Bill Shooter of Bul) Comments RE: What for? http://www.osnews.com/thread?521862 http://www.osnews.com/thread?521862 So what would you think about this guy: http://dabeaz.blogspot.com/2011/01/porting-py65-and-my-superboard-t... ? Emulator of 30 years old machine, "modem" for connecting sound card and Superboard, storing instances of Superboard (essentially MS Basic) on the net.

Sometimes people has useless ideas. But if they are porting several Python2 modules to Python3 in the process, let them have it. THEY ARE AWESOME. I'll bet that ios project will provide at least some patches for the Linux kernel. Wed, 13 Jun 2012 11:52:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (SeeM) Comments This just caught my attention http://www.osnews.com/thread?521885 http://www.osnews.com/thread?521885 Green logotype

Word 'Magenta'

... ;) Wed, 13 Jun 2012 15:01:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (aliquis) Comments RE[4]: What for? http://www.osnews.com/thread?521909 http://www.osnews.com/thread?521909 Unstable ABI!!

http://omgcheesecake.net/index.php?/topic/2550-linus-rants-about-gn... Wed, 13 Jun 2012 18:18:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (lucas_maximus) Comments RE: Confused. Help!! http://www.osnews.com/thread?521915 http://www.osnews.com/thread?521915 I think It's more like Haiku, which is binary compatible with BeOS on top of NewOS kernel. It's not the same, though Wed, 13 Jun 2012 20:26:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Speaktrap) Comments Interesting but http://www.osnews.com/thread?521942 http://www.osnews.com/thread?521942 Incredibly stupid.

Sorry, there is OS News, then there is OS News that has hokey news in it.

-Hack Thu, 14 Jun 2012 00:37:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (hackus) Comments