OSNews: http://www.osnews.com/story/26110/ Exploring the Future of Computing en-us Copyright 2001-2013, David Adams adam+nospam@osnews.com Sat, 25 May 2013 08:40:14 GMT http://www.osnews.com/images/osnews.gif OSNews.com http://www.osnews.com Comment by Nico57 http://www.osnews.com/thread?523601 http://www.osnews.com/thread?523601 Oh well, that's ugly.

The problem with art is that it's an highly subjective and personal matter.
And, of course, these "works" are totally out of topic here.

I'm sorry to say this, but I wish your rare apparitions would pay more respect to the work you've done here. Sun, 24 Jun 2012 14:15:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Nico57) Comments Do you like Magritte paintings ? http://www.osnews.com/thread?523604 http://www.osnews.com/thread?523604 It reminds me this painting, among others :
http://www.essentialart.com/acatalog/Rene_Magritte_L_Empire_des_Lum... Sun, 24 Jun 2012 15:25:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Treza) Comments RE: Comment by Nico57 http://www.osnews.com/thread?523623 http://www.osnews.com/thread?523623 I did respect the audience here, by choosing sci-fi works and not generic ones. Most osnews readers are surely geeks. Subjective or not, the included works are true art, not this cheesy kind: http://cgarchive.tumblr.com/post/25778700519/pepper-robot-ii-by-sta... . If you don\'t care about art, simply ignore the article. Discussing the Gimp or copyright or Creative Commons all the time around here, but not what it can be created with or around these, is a very narrow view of one\'s interests IMHO.

EDIT: I guess a lot of people took offense on my comment above, sorry about that. I was just trying to make better known this new type of art which I personally find very exciting and refreshing. Sun, 24 Jun 2012 18:11:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Eugenia) Comments RE: Do you like Magritte paintings ? http://www.osnews.com/thread?523624 http://www.osnews.com/thread?523624 I love Magritte, I even made a homage collage about him, a piece inspired from his. ;) Sun, 24 Jun 2012 18:12:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Eugenia) Comments Tree of Dreams http://www.osnews.com/thread?523632 http://www.osnews.com/thread?523632
I did respect the audience here, by choosing sci-fi works and not generic ones.


Given this context, allow me to point you to a hardly known (but quite cool) sci-fi childrens programme: "Expedition Adam '84 - The Visitors" (original title: "Navstevnici", created in the early 1980's in the CSSR with cooperation of Switzerland, France and the FRG.

The "Tree of Dreams", by Anderle, an artist of the first generation of the telekineticians of the 23th century (original painting located at the Museum of Fine Arts on the moon):

http://adam2007.awardspace.com/galerie/01/e01b07.jpg

The Amarons don't belong there! - But I could've bet it was the Citropom... - episode 1 "quick quote". :-)

I really like this art as a nice "intermission" of the "standard" topics like copyright violations, developer problems or GUI design fails. Thanks for that! =^_^= Sun, 24 Jun 2012 20:13:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Doc Pain) Comments RE[2]: Comment by Nico57 http://www.osnews.com/thread?523634 http://www.osnews.com/thread?523634
the included works are true art, not this cheesy kind: http://cgarchive.tumblr.com/post/25778700519/pepper-robot-ii-by-sta...


What makes the works in the article art and not that one? The fact that you don't like it?

If you don't care about art, simply ignore the article. Discussing the Gimp or copyright or Creative Commons all the time around here, but not what it can be created with or around these, is a very narrow view of one's interests IMHO.


Not everyone cares about the same kind of "art" as you, that alone does not make their interests or view narrower than yours and to claim otherwise just shows quite a lot of arrogance on your part.

I wasn't planning to say anything about those works you linked to, but for the sake of argument I can honestly confess that I didn't really like a single one of them while still admitting that they can be viewed as works of art. To be honest, trying to claim that what someone else likes cannot be art simply because you cannot see what they see in it is a narrow view on the world of art and thus I get the feeling it is you who needs to widen your view. The work you linked to may indeed be cheesy, but I've never seen the word "art" defined as "not-cheesy creations." True art is just as much about their creators as they are about their audience which obviously means endless possible combinations, be that disturbing, pleasing or just plain irrelevant ones. Or "cheesy" ones, as you put it. Sun, 24 Jun 2012 20:21:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (WereCatf) Comments RE: Tree of Dreams http://www.osnews.com/thread?523635 http://www.osnews.com/thread?523635
I really like this art as a nice "intermission" of the "standard" topics like copyright violations, developer problems or GUI design fails.


A break every now and then from the usual stuff is nice, that I agree with. I quite liked the recent one about Thom's grandmother's old encyclopedia. Not that there is anything wrong with discussing computing-related art, either. Sun, 24 Jun 2012 20:26:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (WereCatf) Comments RE[3]: Comment by Nico57 http://www.osnews.com/thread?523636 http://www.osnews.com/thread?523636 It would be nice if you are more appreciative of the work and excitement I put on this for all of you, rather than calling me names and try to pick a fight. If I wasn't provoked in the first comment, I wouldn't have replied at all either.

IMO, people who don't care about art at all, are usually narrow-minded in general, in my personal experience. You called me arrogant for saying this, but it's how I have experienced it first hand.

As for the linked "cheesy" work, it's technically-speaking a masterpiece, but it evokes no emotion to me, it doesn't surprise me in any way, it's just a sexual tease in a sci-fi bubble-gum wrapper. Sure, art is subjective, but there's something to be said for appreciating better art by seeing/hearing more art. When I first started doing collages I liked Pacaud's work (two of his pieces are shown in the article), but as time went by I appreciated the more chaotic ones, the less pristine ones. Same with music, for years I liked standard pop/rock, then in 2009 I moved to indie music, and in 2012 I don't enjoy anything than what others don't usually deem "experimental". My point is, that yes, art is subjective, but up to a point. If you give art a chance, you will eventually enjoy more of the less pristine styles. And you will be **rewarded for this effort** because it will expand your enjoyment and experience to ways that you never thought possible in your mind.

The "cheesy" piece linked above is the kind of style that is usually enjoyed by someone who only cursory looks at art, it's the commercial, easy part of art (not technically easy to create, but easy to understand with a single look). But it has no additional depth, and that's an objective look at the work.

Then, please go back to the article and look at the first piece: "Visiting Hour". Look how bleak and unsettling it looks, how it radiates the shivering event with its textures and colors. Look how the pose of the person is startling, how we already know that what is going to ensue is some painful alien experiment. There's a whole world and a whole story immediately created in our minds when looking at that work.

The cheesy one creates no stories in my mind (I'd be surprised if it did for you). It's a sexy chick on some pod or something, we get no information about the world she's in, there's no further imagination being sprouted in our minds by this work. What you see, is what you get (soft-porn in disguise in this case -- not that anything is wrong with porn). True art, must be more than just a dry look at some random moment.

Of course, we can debate "what's art and what's not art" all day long. This is a philosophical debate that exists for 2,500 years now and it's not going to end any time soon, so arguing about all this is probably a moot point and a waste of our time.Edited 2012-06-24 21:16 UTC Sun, 24 Jun 2012 21:06:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Eugenia) Comments RE[4]: Comment by Nico57 http://www.osnews.com/thread?523639 http://www.osnews.com/thread?523639
It would be nice if you are more appreciative of the work and excitement I put on this for all of you


I never complained about the article, so you're barking up the wrong tree there. I merely commented on your attitude.

rather than calling me names and try to pick a fight.


I cannot find a single sentence where I called you names. I did say your attitude seems quite arrogant and it looks to me like you're the one who still needs work on her view. That's not calling someone names.

IMO, people who don't care about art at all, are usually narrow-minded in general, in my personal experience. You called me arrogant for saying this, but it's how I have experienced it first hand.


No, you're implying that people who don't care about the style of art you presented here are narrow-minded, and that's what I take offense with. You simply cannot just assume that anyone who doesn't enjoy your kind of art doesn't care about art at all.

My point is, that yes, art is subjective, but up to a point. If you give art a chance, you will eventually enjoy more of the less pristine styles.


Mere speculation.

The "cheesy" piece linked above is the kind of style that is usually enjoyed by someone who only cursory looks at art, it's the commercial, easy part of art (not technically easy to create, but easy to understand with a single look). But it has no additional depth, and that's an objective look at the work.


The definition of art does not hold in it that the work should have "additional depth" to it. Mere technical skill is already enough to create art, just as lack of technical skill but lots of creationary, imaginative skill can be. They different styles of art, but art nevertheless.

Then, please go back to the article and look at the first piece: "Visiting Hour". Look how bleak and unsettling it looks, how it radiates the shivering event with its textures and colors. Look how the pose of the person is startling, how we already know that what is going to ensue is some painful alien experiment. There's a whole world and a whole story immediately created in our minds when looking at that work.


Again, you're trying to make the equation of you == majority of people. I atleast do not get anything such out of it, yet I'm still not claiming it cannot be art.

True art, must be more than just a dry look at some random moment. And that's as objective of an opinion as it goes.


This is exactly what I was saying all along. You're claiming that something cannot be true art unless it evokes the kinds of feelings you seek. Sun, 24 Jun 2012 21:24:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (WereCatf) Comments RE[5]: Comment by Nico57 http://www.osnews.com/thread?523640 http://www.osnews.com/thread?523640 >Mere speculation.

Try it yourself for a while and you will find it to be true. I have more than n=1 examples to claim that geting involved with more art brings you closer to more "difficult" pieces.

>You're claiming that something cannot be true art unless it evokes the kinds of feelings you seek.

Not what *I* seek, but emotions nevertheless.

I spoke with examples, you didn't provide any, you just claimed "everything is art" (and it could very well be). But please, link for me a piece of sci-fi art you enjoy, and please describe the thoughts and feelings it creates for you. I'm honestly curious about it. It's the best way to settle this: examples! I provided a lot of mine, please show me yours! Sun, 24 Jun 2012 21:33:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Eugenia) Comments RE[5]: Comment by Nico57 http://www.osnews.com/thread?523641 http://www.osnews.com/thread?523641 And another thing: I don't agree that creating something that's technically-perfect makes it art automatically, as you claimed. Sorry, but that's one point that I disagree 100%. It's always art with the definition of the word as "skill", but it's not always art with the definition of "artistic". There's a separation between these two words: some woman I know can mop the floor better than anyone else I know of, that doesn't make her an artist. It makes her a skilled janitor. You can appreciate the work, but that doesn't mean that it teases your brain intellectually in any way. We do art exactly because we're intellectual animals.Edited 2012-06-24 21:43 UTC Sun, 24 Jun 2012 21:38:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Eugenia) Comments RE[6]: Comment by Nico57 http://www.osnews.com/thread?523646 http://www.osnews.com/thread?523646
Try it yourself for a while and you will find it to be true.


You are assuming I don't do that already.

I spoke with examples, you didn't provide any


No, I deliberately chose not to provide any examples because that would've just derailed the discussion, not added to it.

But please, link for me a piece of sci-fi art you enjoy, and please describe the thoughts and feelings it creates for you.


I do not see the point, but very well. Below are 4 links to works that I personally enjoy, but I do want to remind that they are merely examples of what I enjoy, absolutely nothing more.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/11811685/wallpaper-861768.jpg
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/11811685/wallpaper-1202376.jpg
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/11811685/wallpaper-1540872.jpg
http://letofan07-luisroyo.buzznet.com/user/photos/mechanical-angel/... Edited 2012-06-24 22:54 UTC Sun, 24 Jun 2012 22:45:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (WereCatf) Comments RE[6]: Comment by Nico57 http://www.osnews.com/thread?523647 http://www.osnews.com/thread?523647
And another thing: I don't agree that creating something that's technically-perfect makes it art automatically, as you claimed. Sorry, but that's one point that I disagree 100%.


Art, as defined by http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/art says this about art, among others:
the quality, production, expression, or realm, according to aesthetic principles, of what is beautiful, appealing, or of more than ordinary significance.

Notice the part about "of more than ordinary significance?" According to this definition something can be art simply due to materials used or skills involved if those properties quantify, along with the object itself, to form something that is, indeed, of more than ordinary significance.

If you still wish to disagree then I shall continue no further, bickering about something when it is clear that an agreement can never be made serves no one. Sun, 24 Jun 2012 23:05:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (WereCatf) Comments RE[7]: Comment by Nico57 http://www.osnews.com/thread?523650 http://www.osnews.com/thread?523650 Definitions change as society, language and what this expresses changes. In the past, skill was indeed the No1 ability an artist must have had in order to become successful. In that traditional definition, every skilled artist made artistic works. Today, this is not the case anymore, skill != art.

In our contemporary (modern, post-modern, meta-modern) world, skill is not always required. In fact, some of the old style art (e.g. 19th century "academic art") is seen as non-art by some today, or at least a form of a lesser art. Example: http://img3.ranker.com/list_img/1/340844/full/famous-history-painti... Consider that this needed *a lot* of skill to create, and yet, today is being poked fun by contemporary artists and critics.Edited 2012-06-24 23:31 UTC Sun, 24 Jun 2012 23:31:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Eugenia) Comments RE[8]: Comment by Nico57 http://www.osnews.com/thread?523657 http://www.osnews.com/thread?523657
Consider that this needed *a lot* of skill to create, and yet, today is being poked fun by contemporary artists and critics.


And? Indie music and movies are ridiculed and poked fun of all the time, yet you insist they are art. Seems quite contradictory. Sun, 24 Jun 2012 23:56:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (WereCatf) Comments RE[9]: Comment by Nico57 http://www.osnews.com/thread?523660 http://www.osnews.com/thread?523660 No contradictory at all. I personally don't know of any serious audiophile person who ridicules indie music, only clueless bubble-gum consumers do that. If anything, even pop-rock artists now follow and adapt, because it's that "hipster" indie music that shapes the future of our music trends now. E.g. Coldplay, despite being standard pop-rock, they had chillwave influences on some of their songs on their newest album. Obviously these influences sound more chewable and commercial than the real thing, but they're unmistakeably there. Indie music (especially electronic, a'la Animal Collective, Washed Out, John Maus etc) drives the way forward for a few years now and are influencing greatly the "commercial" artists. Mon, 25 Jun 2012 00:09:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Eugenia) Comments Thanks http://www.osnews.com/thread?523697 http://www.osnews.com/thread?523697 I appreciated and liked some of the works shown, to me art is very subjective and personal like music. For me i try to use two terms, appreciate and like, sometimes i don't really like the piece but appreciate the artistic style or work that has gone into creating it. Sometimes i appreciate and like the piece.

I like the little breaks in articles with ones like these, they mix it up and add new content which is interesting to read, like Thom's grandmother's encyclopaedia.

I work in London and get feel quite lucky to be able to browse around the many art galleries during lunch etc.. Sometimes im taken back by some of the great works that have been created.

Personally i like

http://www.pureevilclothing.com/indexgallery.html

Although one of the pieces in the article reminded my of the How to Destroy Angels EP Cover.

http://howtodestroyangels.com/img/preorder-cover.jpg

But ive always like the surreal scifi stuff as it's something beyond normal imagery a lot of the time. HR Giger is also good example of some truly incredible artistic work. Mon, 25 Jun 2012 08:43:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (REM2000) Comments Cut-n-paste http://www.osnews.com/thread?523699 http://www.osnews.com/thread?523699 Cheap cut-n-paste jobs, the new art.
Seriously though, some of these are pretty neat and clever while others...not so much.

As for if it's offtopic for the site or not, well, it probably is but at least it's not about Fiona Apple.Edited 2012-06-25 09:11 UTC Mon, 25 Jun 2012 09:11:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Soulbender) Comments RE[2]: Comment by Nico57 http://www.osnews.com/thread?523700 http://www.osnews.com/thread?523700
I did respect the audience here, by choosing sci-fi works and not generic ones. Most osnews readers are surely geeks.

I resent that stereotype.

Subjective or not, the included works are true art, not this cheesy kind:


Uh wait. So a cut-n-paste job using *other peoples* foto's and original art is "true art" while an original "painting" (digital or otherwise) isn't based on the fact that...well.. you think it's "cheesy"?
Sorry, but that's bull. Mon, 25 Jun 2012 09:12:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Soulbender) Comments RE[4]: Comment by Nico57 http://www.osnews.com/thread?523702 http://www.osnews.com/thread?523702 Oh yes please, teach us lowly commoners about the finer things in life such as art and music.
I will immediately rid my music collection of the likes of Saxon, Enya and Buddy Guy to make place for real musicians like John Maus and Animal Collective. I can't wait to have my mind expanded and rise to the upper echelon's of society. Oh boy, this will be awesome.
Or not.
Seriously, wtf?
I liked your post but this is elitist nonsense. You're basically implying that you're better then us because you like indie music and collage pieces. Just because you can't see any depth in the "cheesy" piece doesn't mean there isn't any. Maybe it's your own preconceived notions that prevent you from seeing it. Mon, 25 Jun 2012 09:28:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Soulbender) Comments Comment by NuxRo http://www.osnews.com/thread?523710 http://www.osnews.com/thread?523710 "The other place" is absolutely fantastic! I want that on my wall. Mon, 25 Jun 2012 10:05:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (NuxRo) Comments RE[4]: Comment by Nico57 http://www.osnews.com/thread?523794 http://www.osnews.com/thread?523794 Neither the images you posted as part of the article, nor the "Cheesy" one you provided evoke any significant emotions from me or ask any important questions.

Its okay for people to have different tastes in art. It doesn't behoove anyone to think themselves any better due to their tastes in art.

Thank you for sharing them, though I think a place like deviantart is better suited for these kinds of posts, sci-fi or not. I'd post my own favorite pieces, but they're under copyright ;) Wouldn't want to run afoul of that... Mon, 25 Jun 2012 23:27:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Bill Shooter of Bul) Comments RE[10]: Comment by Nico57 http://www.osnews.com/thread?523859 http://www.osnews.com/thread?523859 Sorry to interupt ;-)

Eugenia, the article you posted was great, and I happen to like the collages you posted.

But you do come across as condescending, and you do have some limited views of what is and isn't art.

A single dot on a piece of paper is art. You may not like it, but it's art. There is no such thing as good art, or bad art.

I remember once being shocked at the winner of an arts festival, when it was revealed that the winning entry was an empty room in which the lights simply turned on and off on a timer.

But so what if it did? It was a clever idea that made people pay attention to something that we typically take for granted.

Art is whatever makes you happy. Sometimes that's just a splodge on a bit of canvas. Tue, 26 Jun 2012 13:11:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (HappyGod) Comments Will this comment also dissapear? http://www.osnews.com/thread?523870 http://www.osnews.com/thread?523870 I've just noticed that a previous comment by me, stating my opinion on the article got deleted. Way to go OSNews! Tue, 26 Jun 2012 15:06:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (BiPolar) Comments RE: Will this comment also dissapear? http://www.osnews.com/thread?523871 http://www.osnews.com/thread?523871 It cause a bit of a shit-storm apparently. I never read it, I don't care what it said, but you made Thom lose his cool with Eugenia. lol. Tue, 26 Jun 2012 15:20:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (henderson101) Comments RE[11]: Comment by Nico57 http://www.osnews.com/thread?523872 http://www.osnews.com/thread?523872 I wasn't going to say anything, because I didn't want to provoke further bad feeling - I think you and SoulBender hit the nail on the head. I like Eugenia's work. I enjoy her enthusiasm. I've got a big issue with the elitist attitude that comes with it though. Preaching to everyone after a short amount of time, well, humility never hurt anyone. Realising we're all flawed and that no one, no matter how skilled they believe they are, becomes an expert over night - this is a not hard lesson, but one sorely in need of being learnt. Tue, 26 Jun 2012 15:26:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (henderson101) Comments RE[2]: Will this comment also dissapear? http://www.osnews.com/thread?523882 http://www.osnews.com/thread?523882 Too bad I didn't got a chance to see that. Bummer.

Anyway, I wasn't offensive in any way, so I can see no reason for the deletion (I could be modded down into Oblivion, and that would have been ok).

I guess this will be my last comment here then. Back to lurking mode I'm out of here, take care you all.Edited 2012-06-26 17:52 UTC Tue, 26 Jun 2012 17:50:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (BiPolar) Comments RE[11]: Comment by Nico57 http://www.osnews.com/thread?523907 http://www.osnews.com/thread?523907
Art is whatever makes you happy.


I don't think art even has to make you happy. Art can just as well make you furious with anger, or disgusted all the way down to your bones, or even frightened. As the dictionary so eloquently put it, it's enough to "be of more than ordinary significance." I've seen some works were very unsettling and definitely not something I'd want to hang on my wall, but at the same time I had to marvel at exceedingly well they were made or how utterly they could shatter my internal balance.

This reminds me of the Sedlec ossuary, in and of itself an enormours work of art. There is something deeply unsettling about wall decorations, walls themselves, benches, even chandeliers (http://photos.worldisround.com/photos/26/437/499_o.jpg ) being made out of human bones, yet I cannot help but be amazed at the sheer amount of talent and time being put to all that. Tue, 26 Jun 2012 22:50:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (WereCatf) Comments RE[12]: Comment by Nico57 http://www.osnews.com/thread?523911 http://www.osnews.com/thread?523911 You're dead right.

I guess what I actually should have said was that art is whatever moves you. Be it in a good or bad way.

There was one particular art piece called "Piss Christ", which I took particular offense at at the time (was religous back then. I was young!). Totally offended and infuriated me.

But it was art.Edited 2012-06-26 23:35 UTC Tue, 26 Jun 2012 23:34:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (HappyGod) Comments RE[2]: Will this comment also dissapear? http://www.osnews.com/thread?523913 http://www.osnews.com/thread?523913
It cause a bit of a shit-storm apparently. I never read it, I don't care what it said, but you made Thom lose his cool with Eugenia. lol.


I was planning to discuss this privately with Thom, but I suppose that since there is already some mention of this here in the comments I guess I could just as well voice my opinion out aloud:

Shortly after I made my last reply to Eugenia there was a comment with negative remarks about her and then Eugenia's own reply to this comment, after which the comments section was locked down completely. Then some time later both of those comments were deleted. I was just planning to reply to Eugenia right when the comments section was locked down, so that's how I know. I assume it was Eugenia who did both the locking down and deleting, I've seen it before, too, but I cannot be certain who did it now.

Now, there's this thing that OSNews is just as much about its editors as it is about its community; OSNews is known to have a vocal, opinionated, harsh but also insightful community that can take a story and drive some very serious discussion. OSNews wouldn't be what it is without this sort of response, and atleast I personally come here just as much for the articles themselves as I come here for the comments to them. As such it really feels like a total slap in the face when a story gets locked down and comments deleted, it feels like an insult! It only serves to create this "don't forget that we can excercise powers you do not have!" - kind of feeling, a feeling of distrust.

I don't presume to demand anything, but I would like to propose more editorial integrity on these things. I've seen e.g. Thom being bashed, called names, insulted and whatnot hundreds of times without him flying off the handle or locking things down and deleting comments. If he disagrees with what is said about him he either addresses the comment directly or ignores it, exactly as I would wish for him to do. I obviously am not an authority here, but could I still ask for the editors to ponder about a possible policy on how to handle these things, on what conditions it is ok to lock down/remove content and when it isn't, and then communicate your thoughts to us?

PS. Just saying this here to avoid any misunderstandings or anything: this is not about Eugenia's story at all, I have absolutely no issues with her posting such. In fact I think having an occasional break from the standard stuff is good and I actually would like to thank Eugenia for the surprise story. Tue, 26 Jun 2012 23:50:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (WereCatf) Comments RE[2]: Will this comment also dissapear? http://www.osnews.com/thread?523923 http://www.osnews.com/thread?523923 BiPolar's comment just agreed with the OP (Nico57) and wasn't worse than any other comment. I was very surprised it got deleted.
Where did that shit-storm happen though? Didn't see it anywhere... Wed, 27 Jun 2012 03:17:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Soulbender) Comments What is art? http://www.osnews.com/thread?523925 http://www.osnews.com/thread?523925 This little lively debate we've got going has prompted me to submit my own collage entitled "what is art?"


http://i.imgur.com/nrE6W.jpg Wed, 27 Jun 2012 03:49:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Alfman) Comments RE: What is art? http://www.osnews.com/thread?523928 http://www.osnews.com/thread?523928 He's got a teensy-weensy pecker, it must be art! Wed, 27 Jun 2012 04:56:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (WereCatf) Comments