“Looking at the stats for all our apps (we have 4 universal apps with almost 3 million downloads) and for all versions after a month gives an interesting picture.” Close to 70% is on iOS 6 already. In the meantime, Sony just announced it’s going to leave loads of users in the cold by not upgrading their phones to Jelly Bean. Those that do have an update in the pipeline will have to wait until next year.
There are rumors swirling that Google is partnering with LG, HTC, Samsung and Sony are about to unleash new nexus smart phones. I think the idea is to push stock android on more devices that can be updated more frequently than what the manufacturers can do right now.
Also, with that being said, I think the IOS 6 numbers are expected to be low as people hold off on the upgrade until they know maps is okay. I navigated with a friend using ios 6 maps last weekend. It worked fine. I imagine it would for any non major city goer who doesn’t need public transportation routing, if they’re still in a populated area.
Even Nexus devices get updates months after availability.
iOS 6 adoption is not low — by any measure. That’s the point. It is absurdly high and achieved at a pace that hardly has any peer to speed of adoption — whether mobile or any other platform type. It’s 50-70% already (by various measures comparable to this). By what measure is that low?
The FUD on Maps has been absurdly overblown.
Edited 2012-10-19 15:22 UTC
I would expect that the adoption of ios6 would be slower than the adoption of ios5.
The Maps situation is not all FUD. Like I said with the previous post, its better on ios6 for many people, worse for others (ie, those that need public transit routing). If I lived in the urban areas like NY, Chicago, Boston, Washington DC, London, Paris, Brussels, Amsterdam, Madrid, Toronto, Barcelona, ect, I would not recommend the upgrade to IOS 6.
But you are wrong: iOS6 adoption is occuring faster than iOS5.
I am not stating that Maps is devoid of any problems (Google Maps can’t even say that). I AM stating that Maps is not slowing iOS6 adoption, that your “recommendation” is poor advice, and that making that unsupported claim, that iOS6 adoption is being and should be slowed because of Maps, is merely FUD.
Edited 2012-10-19 15:55 UTC
I’ll admit I haven’t looked at the rate of adoption and compared it to IOS 5’s.
But if you use maps on your phone to navigate public transportation… wouldn’t it make sense to stay on ios5? Why would you upgrade to make your life more difficult? Have you spent time in a city with good public transportation? Google maps makes it nice and easy even for an occasional city goer like myself. Its easier to blend in with everyone who does navigate buses and trains more frequently and lower my profile as an easy mark for mugging.
Everytime I have attempted to use Google Transit maps in a major city, I find their schedules hugely inaccurate, or at least much less accurate than the frequency of the public transit itself so I have found little value to them, as the public transit is loaded with the needed maps and/or other people likewise using the transit are more knowledgable about directions than Google is.
Also, I find the 3rd party public transit apps available to iOS far superior to iOS5 Maps.
No, I would not deny myself access to all of the features of iOS6 simply because of Maps — no matter which location I lived in.
Edited 2012-10-19 17:34 UTC
Its always worked perfectly for me, barring any accidents/delays/construction.
You DO NOT want to ask other people for directions on mass transit in some areas,or be caught looking at a map/schedule for too long. That is asking to be mugged or worse.
For many people in the city Google maps is the killer app that convinced them to pony up to smartphone land. Anything else is not nearly as important.
What has to be remembered also is the fact that what is considered bad in one area of the world is not the same in another area.
For those somplaining about the maps in ios6, it is quite easy to go to google maps in browser and then turn that page into an app and voila, you now have google maps on your phone again.
I lived in the heart of Oakland for more than 5 years. I don’t live in fear.
So what you’re saying is that looking at a paper schedule or talking to someone will get you mugged, but pulling out a $600 smartphone will not? Hmmm..
Edited 2012-10-19 20:43 UTC
Yup. Crazy, right? You have to look like you know what you’re doing. If you’re looking at your phone, you could be doing anything. If you’re looking at a paper map, you’re looking at a paper map because you aren’t familiar with the area.
Pity the public transport info in Google Maps is so useless outside of the US.
Also, do you have an iPhone?
Half of me has two of them.
What is that supposed to mean?
That can’t really be expressed any better than that. If I broke it down, it wouldn’t be as clear. It would just lead to further questions, with more explanations. I’d just rather not go down that path, so I’ll leave it at that.
Umm, okay.
It means that you have to be married to understand.
Sure doesn’t sound like it. Sounds like he’s completely conflicted, confused, and unwilling to explain. Saying, “I’m married” is rather easy.
Don’t speak for others who can’t and don’t want to speak for themselves.
Lol. When you become a moderator on a site, you can enforce your rule at that time
Until then, the rest of us will post.
I’m not trying to enforce anything; I’m trying to give you advice however.
I don’t think the answer is quite clearly “marriage” nor is the original poster willing to explain. So why should I accept someone else’s (someone who also likely does not even know the original poster) interpretation?
That … is a very good question ..
My answer would be … you shouldn’t. If the poster refuse to provide an answer, then the problem is with the poster, not you, or me, or anyone else.
There is no FUD on Maps. It is utterly craptastic and unusable. I have zero faith in the results after it left my wife stranded and her ride 20 minutes away scratching their head.
I dropped a pin of her location to her ride and messaged the pin to her ride. The ride, received a completely different pin location 20 minutes away! Both phones were iOS6. There is no free pass on this. If Maps isn’t made trustworthy my next phone will not be from Apple.
Why not just buy a 3rd pary app? There’s plenty of choice including offkine navigation.
Edited 2012-10-21 12:47 UTC
yes especially after the Apple fans created so much buzz about it ( see http://www.osnews.com/story/25940/Apple_s_coming_map_application_wi… )
The maps have been ok… but it is not very good at finding things by topic. If you have an address you will probably be ok. However, It did tell my friend that his destination was an onramp in florida… but he was close enough that he got where he was going in the end.
I miss the the public transportation maps… the modules I have tried are not as good as Googles. You can get walking instructions out of apples maps… but the UI did not make it obvious at first.
The sampling method is very biased, as it accounts only for the people who have upgraded to the latest version of Discovr Music.
The only conclusion that can be drawn is that there is a high correlation between upgrading to the latest Discovr Music and upgrading to the latest iOS.
(Or as I like to read it: people who like to upgrade software upgrade their software)
Such sampling method is incompatible with the official results from Google. To get comparable results, we need a similar approach from Apple.
No, the data isn’t predicated on updating the app; the app, upgraded or not, reports the OS being used (the post states that the data is provided for their 4 apps, across all versions in use).
I have no idea what you mean by this is inconsistent with Google sampling methods because there is no data for Google whatsoever in the post, but everyone knows uptake of the latest Google update is objectively bad. Different methods of data collection (and visiting Google Play within a certain timeframe is a rather poor measure anyway, it shouldn’t be a standard method of measuring OS adoption) isn’t going to alter the enormous disparity between the 2 platforms.
Edited 2012-10-19 15:21 UTC
The link within the article states that they only consider the new version of Discovr Music. See 2nd paragraph of http://discovr.info/2012/10/discovr-ios-6-adoption-tops-77-iphone-5…
For the Google numbers: “[…] based on the number of Android devices that have accessed Google Play within a 14-day period ending on the data collection date noted below.” (http://developer.android.com/about/dashboards/index.html)
Note that the phone periodically connects to Google Play for updates by default. No user interaction is needed, except that the phone has to be turned on.
No, that post says that while he was looking at data for one of his app’s updates, he was taken by the rate of adoption of iOS. For the subset of those updating the one app, the adoption rate for iOS is 77%. It never states that the data in the post Thom links is only the subset of those updating the 1 app; it states the opposite. The link provided by Thom specifically states the data is across all versions of all 4 of their apps. And here we see that the adoption rate across all 4 apps and all versions is, as expected, lower but comparably high (55%-70%).
I know how Google measures OS update releases. I’m stating that its a poor measure — Apple doesn’t have to indirectly record other OEM’s devices through a store. And I’m also stating that the disparity is so huge that handwaving about different methods of arriving at the results is absurd. There is no data collection method that is ever going to show Android uptake remotely close to iOS uptake.
Edited 2012-10-19 15:57 UTC
I missed the first graph picture due to an office filter. But I found it funny that it proves my point that the sampling is biased.
The second paragraph that I pointed out earlier, gives 77% iOS6 on the 10 October as it’s only considering the latest version of Discovr Music. While the graph in the new post states ~60% on the same date as it consider a larger sample (four apps and several versions). That’s a pretty large difference. And the larger sample is still heavily biased as it’s related to one vendor with its user base, and not randomly sampled across every iPhone/iPad owner.
I don’t understand why you think that the Google method is so flawed. All Android devices apart from the Kindle regularly connects to Google Play for automatic updates.
How is considering only 4 apps from one vendor in the App Store better?
iOS 6 adoption rate might be great, but I still long for Apple to publish results, and if possible on a larger less biased sample. For the moment, only Google does.
You decided to look at a link that’s not posted and are crying foul that the data represents exactly what it says it does? That’s silliness.
And I don’t understand why you think any, consistent data collection widely-accepted by one and all as reliable and effective, applied across both platforms is going to show anything other than Android uptake being much, much, much worse than iOS uptake. Trying to discredit reasonable evidence that only purports to be exactly what it is doesn’t change reality.
I didn’t say this was a better measure. I believe it is a reasonable estimate. The question posed to you by your assertions is: is this estimate so unreasonably inaccurate as to point to the belief that a more accurate estimate would show Google uptake comparable to iOS uptake? The answer is clearly no. Otherwise, you are just handwaving.
Edited 2012-10-19 16:06 UTC
I’m pointing out that the sampling method is highly biased and that it gives huge variation in the results, and must be considered as such.
A more realistic view may lead to a completely different conclusions. For example, on iOS fragmentation or others.
Google provides a good market overview of each Android version that is regularly updated, which is why I mention it.
No, you are not. Don’t throw around words like “highly biased”. Your only initial basis for such a claim is that it measured updaters so people who update are likely to update other things as well. But you now know you are incorrect on that matter. I see no bias in one source providing data from the only source available to them.
You haven’t shown huge variation. Their data showing highly penetration in the updates to one app is not a “huge variation” from the data set measuring all of their apps and all of their versions: that is an expected result of the data set.
You have not presented any evidence, any realism, or any logic to support the claim that this data set is disparate from any other data set. There is no reason to believe that you could likely arrive at a completely different conclusion.
And the point of the article is to tell us that Google is more fragmented and slower to be updated than iOS. But you won’t accept this because you are living in denial. Everyone knows this and innumerable data sets show the same thing as this data: iOS is the most rapidly updated platform ever and completely crushes Android with regard to uptake and fragmentation.
Their oldest post could only lead to this conclusion, giving that that they only considered the new version.
I do. It’s called sampling bias. Even if it’s not intentional.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sampling_bias
They have a >16% relative error between their two posts (70% to 60%). This is quite a large variation considering the sampled populations between the two charts are highly correlated.
That’s why we need a more solid source to have a better and more accurate view. Something the Google Dashboard provides (yet you seem to dismiss it).
EDIT: looking more closely at the charts and the blog dates, their absolute error between the chart is 17%, the relative error is 30%.
I just have. I’ve just shown you that there is a 16% variation within their own sampled population. Given the high correlation between their two charts, it means that a less correlated sampled population could have much larger error.
Depends on the conclusion. That iOS6 adoption rate is great, especially compared to Android ICS/JB? I agree.
That there is no fragmentation at all in iOS land, I disagree. There is too much statistical noise in these couple of charts to draw any valid conclusion.
Note that none of their blog post nor the Osnews article conclude anything, they only presented facts. You brought your own conclusion.
I’ve always agreed with that the iOS6 adoption rate is great (or rather, I’ve not even talked about it). My posts focused and are still focusing on the sampling method of these two charts, poking fun at the inherent sampling bias.
You’ve however assumed from the start that I disagreed with the… err… *your* conclusion, and that therefore everything I presented was false.
Edited 2012-10-19 22:02 UTC
Oh, and the Kindle Fire is not an Android device!
Why not? Just because it has a different skin? Does Windows cease to be Windows when you run Litestep instead of the Explorer shell?
The Kindle Fire cannot legally use the Android name. Neither Amazon nor Google consider it Android.
It’s only fanboys who need to beef up Android tablet numbers that decide to count is as Android. It is not. It is compatible with a subset of Android apps. That is not the same as being Android. That is the equivalent of claiming Linux installs with Wine installed are Windows PCs.
Edited 2012-10-19 16:10 UTC
This is such complete bullshit it hurts me eyes.
The Fire runs Android applications without alterations. It is entirely Android except in skin and name. So, I ask you again: does Windows cease to be Windows when you replace the Explorer shell with Litestep?
No. This is wrong on every possible level. What YOU are claiming is the equivalent of claiming that Windows running Litestep is magically no longer Windows. The Fire doesn’t run Android applications through something akin to Wine – it runs Android applications because it IS Android in all but name and skin.
Android in name specifically refers to Google-certified versions of the AOSP code base conforming to their compatibility testing and requirements including the Google Play store, Google Apps, and other services. Without those, it is not Android.
So, it’s semantics. Good we agree.
I care about the technical perspective. They can call it Donkey Balls OS for all I care – it’s still Android, whether Amazon and Apple fanatics like it or not.
No, it is not semantics. Fire does not have the same contribution to the Android ecosystem as an actual Android device.
Neither the creator of the Fire nor the creator of Android consider the Fire to be Android.
But you need to pump up the numbers because Android’s performance in the tablet space is not very good.
I find I actually agree with both of you on this one…
It is fair to call a Kindle Fire an android device as a user, because you can essentially use it as one and it runs Android apps just fine. We all know what it is technically – its Android in all but name. So yes, it is semantics.
However, semantics certainly matter when it comes to market share…
Kindle should not count toward Android market share because it is not a sanctioned Android device, for the same reasons that Oracle should not get credit for Android applications counting towards their Java installed base – Oracle has nothing to do with Android. In the case of Kindle, Google has nothing to do with it either…
Playbooks can run Android apps too, but would you take their market share numbers away from Blackberry and assign them to Google because of that?
It’s not Android devices, but from android apps market, it’s the same target, the same potential sale.
Don’t count them as Android devices, sure.
Don’t count them as Android apps compatible platform, wrong.
Now it’s up to everyone to figure what matter more for a platform marketshare : the amount of official stickers on sold devices or the amount of platforms able to run your apps. There no one single answer, as it depends on your self-interest.
It was rumored that the original Xbox was running on a modified version of the Windows 2000 kernel. I guess that turned out to be false, but if it had been true, you wouldn’t say the Xbox ran on Windows 2000.
Unlike Linux, Android is more than that just the under the hood stuff.
While I am finding this entire thread ridiculous, I can’t resist giving my 2c.
First off, the playbook is more akin to one of the previous posters saying “would you call linux running wine windows?” that anything. Since it is just a compatibility layer on top of blackberries OS that allows android apps to function.
The xbox analogy is horrible. As you just said “modified windows 2000 kernel”. *modified* and *kernel*. The fire is running the full set of Android APIs and just has a different launcher running. That is MASSIVELY different and claiming otherwise is disingenuous at best.
Now, as for the Kindle. There is a HUGE difference between whether something is actually NOT something or whether you cant call it something simply because it isn’t officially supported…
The Fire *is* running Android. It just isn’t sanctioned/supported by Google. You all basically just killed a huge portion of the Android usage statistics by claiming otherwise because ANY device not running Google apps is now “not Android”. Like my Entourage eDGe ereader that is running Android 2.2 or any number of cheap tablets/phones that have been spit out.
This entire argument is smacking of people that are anal retentive and have too much time on their hands.
woooow. I just reread my post. I shouldn’t comment after just waking up. I’m sorry this post is so disjointed.
Point still stands, though
IMO, once you leave off the Google Apps (ESPECIALLY the Play store), you’re not Android anymore. Maybe you’re ‘Android-based’, which isn’t the same thing.
Of course, that sounds like a pointless distinction, but you have to draw the line somewhere, else people will continue to use the Kindle Fire (and devices like it) as examples of how bad the Android fragmentation is. And that’s not fair, especially considering the Fire is not even advertised as an Android device.
If you’re one of those tards who think it’s a good thing that there’s 900 different Linux distros, trust me… it isn’t. That’s why hardly anybody uses it as a desktop OS, and Android doesn’t need that shit.
So if the Fire doesn’t get counted in Android usage statistics, it doesn’t get counted. It doesn’t deserve to be counted. It is an Amazon device running Android APIs, but it is NOT an Android device.
You make some good points. And, no, I’m not one of those “tards that things 900 linux distros is a good thing”.
I’ll recognize a few main versions as being useful. Otherwise… meh. I love Fedora Core, Debian, and Arch.
You “long” for Apple to publish data? Seriously? Apple usually does provide an update at their events. iOS 6 has been available for 30 days. They have an event in a little more than 3 days. Your LONGING shall soon be satiated in all likelihood.
Apple does not provide iOS version shares on the global market. They only publish partial numbers (e.g. US market only) when it suits their presentation.
Apple has nothing comparable to the Google Android Dashboard.
Apple does provide worldwide OS upgrade data.
Apple doesn’t need a dashboard to inform developers what small sliver of a % of potential users may or may not be able to use their apps. iOS developers KNOW that within days of release 50%+ of the entire population of active iOS users will be using the latest software.
Edited 2012-10-19 17:52 UTC
Where?
Where what? Where don’t they need to provide a dashboard? EVERYWHERE.
Where do they announce worldwide iOS upgrade adoption at their events? Where their events are held, be that the Yerba Buena Ctr, the Apple Town Hall, or the newest location for the event on Tuesday.
Would you care providing previous instances of such data for past iOS upgrades?
The Sony users may have been left out in the cold, but thay can at least still use Google maps to find their way home
Sigh
Not had enough of your Anti-Apple medicine today then? (sarcasm implied)
I don’t have an iPhone but an HTC Android phone but even I know that iPhone users can still use Google Maps just by directing their web browser to google maps.
No, not nearly enough to keep quiet.
It is true they that can use the web, but then they don’t get turn by turn navigation like you get on Android.
We are expected to pay premium prices for Apple phones and we should expect premium quality products. The state of Apple maps is far from that. It is beta quality at best. So I think Apple deserves all they can get. Delivering something like this is totally out of character for them.
I get turn by turn voice nav on IOS6 with Apple’s Maps….worked perfectly last weekend in the suburbs of Philly….we were quite pleased with the accuracy. Anecdote I know, but just saying……
Edited 2012-10-20 15:55 UTC
Coming up with clever arguments, rubbishing statistics or making speculative claims doesn’t change a thing. The facts are clear and unambiguous and have not changed for a long time. Android OS updates are very, very slow to filter out into the installed base. iOS OS updates are installed at a very, very much faster rate. New versions of the Android OS take a long time to get above 50% if they ever do. New versions of iOS take a very short time to get above 50% of the installed base. Trying to pretend those things are not true is pathetic and unsustainable.
Who is that directed at? I’m just really curious since as far as I can tell the article you just lashed out at supports most of your post…
Where are the clever arguments, rubbish statistics, or speculative claims you are referring to? Maybe you meant to reply to a specific comment?
No, he’s just insecure in his choice of brand loyalty.
Or maybe “someone” is insecure in someone else’s choice of brand.
Not really, no.
His comparison of update frequency between IOS and Android platforms is rather accurate in my experience.
It is so clear I’m not sure why there was even an article about this. You may as well write an article saying how awesome android is because 99% of users have functioning turn by turn navigation and have for the last few years. Yeah, we get it, they are different and have different pros/cons. There are debatable strengths that might make for interesting news but this is really pointless.
Actually 70% is laughably *low* considering apple’s update model. Updates are so seamless on ios that means 30% (!!!) have willingly decided to refuse the update because they’ve heard about problems with ios6. I bet the large majority of those are refusing because of maps. That is a pretty huge slap in the face for Apple! Lol!