http://www.osnews.com/story/2662/It_s_time_for_Windows_on_the_Desktop Exploring the Future of Computing en-us Copyright 2001-2009, David Adams adam+nospam@osnews.com Mon, 09 Nov 2009 21:22:53 GMT http://www.osnews.com/images/osnews.gif http://www.osnews.com http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? this is a very funny article... Mon, 27 Jan 2003 18:05:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? > Soon, you won't have to worry about your ATM not functioning > because of some SQL worm. I want that amount of security on > my desktop!

ROFL!! Mon, 27 Jan 2003 18:05:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? Ok that's kicks ass. That has gotta be one of the best "if the tables were turned" articles i've ever read. Mon, 27 Jan 2003 18:11:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? Funniest line, IMHO:

"...and cryptic commands like "Edit textfile.txt" (what in the hell is that supposed to mean?)."

That actually made me laugh out loud... Nice work. Its good to see a little leavity around here.

Chris Mon, 27 Jan 2003 18:14:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? Heh, this makes a good point very well indeed. Congrats to the author, it gave me a chuckle. Mon, 27 Jan 2003 18:22:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? 3. Stability. Netcraft has announced that Windows 2000 server has finally gone for over 2 years without a reboot.


they're not installing security updates then, since they require a reboot, and they get out every month now.

as a matter of fact i'm patching a system now, which indeed never needed a reboot, unless you install something (eg security updates) Mon, 27 Jan 2003 18:30:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? A lot of security updates don't really require a reboot, they just say that to make absolutely certain the patch is applied. Most often all you have to do it restart the affect service (SQL Server, Exchange, IIS etc) to apply the patch. Mon, 27 Jan 2003 18:34:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? proof-read next time, wow! Mon, 27 Jan 2003 18:37:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? Probably best thing I read all week Mon, 27 Jan 2003 18:39:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? " it then asks me, "C:Program Filesfreegame does not exist, do you want to create it?" Well, DUH!!! "

Yes, this IS the most idiotic thing I have seen on Windows.

Another thing is HORRIBLE bugging by pop-ups on XP. For example, I made a 400mb partition just to hold one file, an archive of some important docs, just in case my main partition freaks out.

Now I've got XP bugging me ever 5 minutes with this irritiating pop-up: "You have no space remaining on F: Click here to run the File Cleaning Wizard... And this without any freakin' way to turn it off". Mon, 27 Jan 2003 18:47:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? Very fun article. I hope all those Linux reviewers will see this and rethink the way they review Linux. It doesn't have to be perfectly idiot proof and annoyance free to be ready for the desktop. God knows Windows isn't! Mon, 27 Jan 2003 18:52:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? //they're not installing security updates then, since they require a reboot, and they get out every month now. //

Well ... it's probably misleading. If you're running a NLB or DFO cluster with Windows 2000, you could be rebooting the servers, but Netcraft would never know it. Mon, 27 Jan 2003 18:54:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? If MS wants any success on the desktop market,
they'll need to change the filesystem.

Have you ever tried to explain to your mother
that she shouldn't rename a document while it
is opened?
Worse: When selecting media files, windows tends
to display a preview, and keeps the files open
for whatever reasons. When you select a media
file you simply cannot rename, move or delete it.

The abysmal file system design is also the cause
of many reboots. DLLs simply cannot be replaced
by installers as long as they're in use.

IMO MS Windows still has a long way to go before
it's ready for the desktop. Mon, 27 Jan 2003 18:55:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? "When the monitor is in Power Save mode, but the computer is on, the monitor should display something like "The Computer is on, but this monitor is in powersave mode. Hit any key to continue or move the mouse".

I guess I missunderstood the meaning of power save Mon, 27 Jan 2003 19:03:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? Yes, that revealed many truths. Mon, 27 Jan 2003 19:06:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? Perhaps the bios will have a database of certificates that all software must have in order to run. This will make sure newbies only run Microsoft approved, quality software. How good could a program be if Microsoft has never heard of it?

Please stop! Your giving out to many good ideas.

ps.
Edit is the only text editor Mon, 27 Jan 2003 19:09:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? "" it then asks me, "C:Program Filesfreegame does not exist, do you want to create it?" Well, DUH!!! "

Yes, this IS the most idiotic thing I have seen on Windows.

Another thing is HORRIBLE bugging by pop-ups on XP. For example, I made a 400mb partition just to hold one file, an archive of some important docs, just in case my main partition freaks out.

Now I've got XP bugging me ever 5 minutes with this irritiating pop-up: "You have no space remaining on F: Click here to run the File Cleaning Wizard... And this without any freakin' way to turn it off"."


I think the most idotic error in vindows' was back in vindows 3.1 dayz

It was in Word ( MS Office 7 (i think)) and also in wordpad (got it some dayz ago in my 2000 box):

Word[pad] couldn't save your document.
Please restart Word[Pad] and save your document ... =]] lol Mon, 27 Jan 2003 19:25:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? that reminds me of the stupid half-assed-excuse for satire that they used to print in our 'underground' high-school newspaper.

for the last time, there is a reason that windows is the number one desktop operating system, adn it's NOT because "m$" is evil. it's stable enough (don't even try to say that it crashes constantly for you, if you have it running on good, name-brand, supported hardware and you don't install ghetto, bug ridden software, windows 2000/xp are VERY stable) to get work done, and it runs tons of applications that people use every day.

an operating system isn't about zealotry, and it isn't about flamewars and arguements. an operating system simply facilitates the execution of applications. nobody does word-processing in a program called openbsd, or linux, you run open-office on TOP of the operating system.

ugh, i'm going to stop, because this just frustrates me so much, especially when i see this whole, needless, 'window$ sux, L1Nux r00lz' debate come to childish satire and low-blows.

it's been said a million times before, but i'm going to say it again, because some people just don't seem to get it.

if linux works for you, use it. if windows works for you, use it. if bsd works for you, use it. just shut the hell up about why you like one or the other. and if you really have such a beef with an operating system, put your money where your mouth is and try to make it better, or start work on an alternative. Mon, 27 Jan 2003 19:26:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? ps.
Edit is the only text editor

If by that you are refering to the fact that its the only one compared to the hundreds for *nix, then may i remind you that there is also "edlin", and i think there was one more or so.

But, if you're just saying that its a nice little editor, i must agree, its easier to use than something like vim for starters, but once you actually learn vim, you see that doing complex search/replace in edit just isnt as easy, aswell as many other tasks. Mon, 27 Jan 2003 19:27:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? for the last time... there is a reason that windows is the number one desktop operating system, adn it's NOT because "m$" is evil. it's stable enough (don't even try to say that it crashes constantly for you, if you have it running on good, name-brand, supported hardware and you don't install ghetto, bug ridden software, windows 2000/xp are VERY stable) to get work done, and it runs tons of applications that people use every day.

an operating system isn't about zealotry, and it isn't about flamewars and arguments. an operating system simply facilitates the execution of applications. nobody does word-processing in a program called openbsd, or linux, you run open-office on TOP of the operating system.

ugh, i'm going to stop, because this just frustrates me so much, especially when i see this whole, needless, 'window$ sux, L1Nux r00lz' debate come to childish satire and low-blows.

it's been said a million times before, but i'm going to say it again, because some people just don't seem to get it.

if linux works for you, use it. if windows works for you, use it. if bsd works for you, use it. just shut the hell up about why you like one or the other. and if you really have such a beef with an operating system, put your money where your mouth is and try to make it better, or start work on an alternative. Mon, 27 Jan 2003 19:28:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? " This will make sure newbies only run Microsoft approved, quality software. "

M$ then would charge $$$ for the sowtware approvalage...
And when a patch would come out it would have 2 Be M$ approved...

and about "quality" ...

There programs [approved] would Be more buggy [The Micro$oft Way] Mon, 27 Jan 2003 19:28:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? ok, so i have no idea why that posted twice. sorry guys. Mon, 27 Jan 2003 19:29:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? Stop stop... pleaze stop...
I can't stop laughing ...
Read it 6 times and i cant STOP....
I will die from laughter.... F**k
I can't stop.......... Mon, 27 Jan 2003 19:34:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? >>For all of us who feel only the deepest love and affection for the way
>>computers have enhanced our lives, read on.
>>
>>At a recent computer expo (COMDEX), Bill Gates reportedly compared the
>>computer industry with the auto industry and stated, "If GM had kept up
>>with
>>the technology like the computer industry has, we would all be driving
>>$25.00 cars that got 1,000 miles to the gallon".
>>
>>In response to Bill's comments, General Motors issued a press release
>>stating:
>>If GM had developed technology like Microsoft, we would all be driving
>>cars
>>with the following characteristics:
>>
>>1. For no reason whatsoever, your car would crash twice a day.
>>
>>2. Every time they repainted the lines in the road, you would have to buy
>>a
>>new car.
>>
>>3. Occasionally your car would die on the freeway for no reason. You
>>would
>>have to pull over to the side of the road, close all of the windows, shut
>>off the car, restart it, and reopen the windows before you could continue.
>>For some reason you would simply accept this.
>>
>>4. Occasionally, executing a maneuver such as a left turn would cause
>>your
>>car to shut down and refuse to restart, in which case you would have to
>>reinstall the engine.
>>
>>5. Macintosh would make a car that was powered by the sun, was reliable,
>>five times as fast and twice as easy to drive - but would run on only five
>>percent of the roads.
>>
>>6. The oil, water temperature, and alternator warning lights would all be
>>replaced by a single "This Car Has Performed An Illegal Operation" warning
>>light.
>>
>>7. The airbag system would ask "Are you sure?" before deploying.
>>
>>8. Occasionally, for no reason whatsoever, your car would lock you out
>>and
>>refuse to let you in until you simultaneously lifted the door handle,
>>turned
>>the key and grabbed hold of the radio antenna.
>>
>>9. Every time a new car was introduced car buyers would have to learn how
>>to drive all over again because none of the controls would operate in the
>>same manner as the old car.
>>
>>10.You'd have to press the "Start" button to turn the engine off Mon, 27 Jan 2003 19:41:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? I heard that M$ is developing Linux COmpatibility that will let Windows abusers to run Linux apps. Mon, 27 Jan 2003 20:08:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? 7. User interface. Look, XP has the best colors on any OS I've ever seen. Why would you use an OS with inferior colors?

I call it the "Playschool theme", that was one funny read. Mon, 27 Jan 2003 20:08:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? ps.
Edit is the only text editor

If by that you are refering to the fact that its the only one compared to the hundreds for *nix, then may i remind you that there is also "edlin", and i think there was one more or so.

But, if you're just saying that its a nice little editor, i must agree, its easier to use than something like vim for starters, but once you actually learn vim, you see that doing complex search/replace in edit just isnt as easy, aswell as many other tasks.

I was tring to follow the pun. You know what I mean, Real programmers only use ed, vim, emacs or a combination of (cat, grep, awk, warthog ...). Wait I forgot real programmers drink beer and load the operating system through the front panel. Mon, 27 Jan 2003 20:10:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? Anonymous (IP: ---.dsl.milwwi.ameritech.net)

The Microsoft/GM thing is amusing, but it never really happened.

http://www.snopes.com/humor/jokes/autos.htm Mon, 27 Jan 2003 20:14:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? "...just shut the hell up about why you like one (operating system) or the other"

Gee, I thought that was what people are supposed to post on a site called "OSNews". Forgive me for making such a rash assumption Mon, 27 Jan 2003 20:15:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? Real programmers? We just use a probe connected to the 5v line and enter programs by touching it on the legs of the ram chips! None of this pussyfooting around with front panel switches.

Anyway, jed is the best text editor, it's as easy to use as dos edit, and does C color highlighting. Mon, 27 Jan 2003 20:18:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? The reviewer didn't mention that windows is incompatible with many different file formats or even mention that windows isn't standards compliant whatsoever.

Not to mention the multiple step process of playing a game as opposed to running it in a ps2 like installing/running it,finding it don't work/patching the game/running it,finding it don't work/updating drivers blah blah blah. Mon, 27 Jan 2003 20:24:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? Holy Shit! That was the funniest thing I've read in a loooonnngg time! Hey you 'linux ready for the masses?' reviewers ... take note! Mon, 27 Jan 2003 20:32:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? My biggest problem with Windows (which easily applies to other os desktop software) is how poorly the filesystem is represented.

There are tons of people who have been using windows for years, but when you ask them for a file, they respond "In Word." Look at the save-as dialog sometime and pretend you're joe-sixpack. Shit, I'm surprised it's intuitive enough for people to hit the save button, let alone organize their files into hierarchies.

I'll go so far as to say most people don't need hierarchies. The best os in my not-so-humble opinion got it right: Palm OS. Any OS my non-tech-savvy mom can use without any instruction is alright by me. Files (or actually, data records) are divided into user-definable categories. Any type of data that particular program could access is available within that app, and all operations can only be performed within that app.

Why can't a desktop OS be this simple? Mon, 27 Jan 2003 20:47:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? Jon Martin I have thought that for a long time now.

Why are hierarchies so entrenched in computers?

I would rather as for 'All word documents related to PRoject X' than go to /Documents and Settings/users/joesix/...

Glad I finally heard this from someone else... Mon, 27 Jan 2003 20:57:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? Jon Martin I have thought that for a long time now.

Why are hierarchies so entrenched in computers?

I would rather as for 'All word documents related to PRoject X' than go to /Documents and Settings/users/joesix/...

Glad I finally heard this from someone else... It's all about abstraction. The programmer thinks in terms of files and directories. The user thinks in terms of logical organization (projects, topics, date). This is why some sort of relational file system might be interesting...but I think just teaching people to use some sort of logical directory setup might be easier on the system's resources... Mon, 27 Jan 2003 21:03:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? Shouldn't you guys be rewriting cryptic linux read me files for desktop use ... Who wants to spend hours setting up something that doesn't have proper documentation. Windows is nice and Linux could be better if it had two VERY important things; proper documentation (very lacking and cryptic) and Root stability. People will argue with me but linux is SOOO unstable as root. This shouldn't be. Fix your problems then and only then proclaim what a wonderful OS linux is.
-Troll Mon, 27 Jan 2003 21:04:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? couldn't get through the whole thing. Mon, 27 Jan 2003 21:04:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? this is one of the best articles i've read in some time. couldn't help laughing out loud several times Mon, 27 Jan 2003 21:05:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? As an ordinary run of the mill computer user,not programmer, I had to chuckle at that little satire.I've been running Linux for years now along with all my kids and 2 servers..I must have saved at least 20 grand.Some of us ordinary folks just don't have the luxury of being able to pay Bill Gates the big bucks or hassle with the Tech support that used to drive me nuts.Maybe Microsoft thinks that asking me a zillion times if I want to do something ..really...is user friendly.The nagging is like living with my mother again. Mon, 27 Jan 2003 21:06:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? Great stuff. I can only hope that other reviews get the idea. I laughed my butt off.

Strid... Mon, 27 Jan 2003 21:06:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? And to top it off, it then asks me, "C:Program Filesfreegame does not exist, do you want to create it?" Well, DUH!!!

Yep. I hate that. Of course I want to create the folder! Thats like turning the key to start you car and having it ask 'are you sure you'd like to start the car' Mon, 27 Jan 2003 21:14:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? You mean the u3b4 l337 h4x0z0rz Mon, 27 Jan 2003 21:20:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? Not bad , not bad at all.
The pun about microsoft mouse was great.
And the great punch line - if you don't have arguments, just say "C'mon!" Mon, 27 Jan 2003 21:20:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? And to top it off, it then asks me, "C:Program Filesfreegame does not exist, do you want to create it?" Well, DUH!!!

Best of all beeing the fact that, if you create the dir, it'll also ask you if you really want to put the thing there Mon, 27 Jan 2003 21:25:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? I thought it was just as funny as a similar article I read on internetnews.com just a few months ago. Went through much of the same kind of shpeel.

I would like to think that the whole My OS is better than your OS argument illustrated here in the comments will soon be a things of the past. Or the I hate you for liking one better than the other argument also illustrated here. Truth is that Adolescent arguments like these and many many others are simply not ready for prime time.

Such is life.
You yell a little, then you grow up.

Cheers,
-SammMoses.Shh Mon, 27 Jan 2003 21:27:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? I think some are missing the point, especially with the "Are you sure you want to create the directory?" bit. Besides, that's the winzip application, not the OS doing it... Mon, 27 Jan 2003 21:33:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? haha, you crack me up.

What are you talking about "Root Stability". There is no such thing as a stability problem with root..only the increased ability to really fubar your box.

----quote-----
Windows is nice and Linux could be better if it had two VERY important things; proper documentation (very lacking and cryptic) and Root stability. People will argue with me but linux is SOOO unstable as root. This shouldn't be. Fix your problems then and only then proclaim what a wonderful OS linux is. Mon, 27 Jan 2003 22:00:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? Not funny. And poorly spell checked. Mon, 27 Jan 2003 22:02:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? All the shortcomings you discussed are fixed in OS X. After 15 years Windows still isn't ready for the desktop, OS X is ready for the desktop and the future. Mon, 27 Jan 2003 22:06:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? >After 15 years Windows still isn't ready for the desktop,

This is indeed funny. You believe everything you hear, right? Mon, 27 Jan 2003 22:10:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? I submitted this "Editorial" Like at 4am this morning. When I got up I checked my e-mail and Eugenia said it was live, and I was like, "Cool!!!".

Anyways, I want to thank everybody who read it and responded. I guess everybody realized it was a satire.

I'll admit I'm biased towards Linux, but I don't passionately hate Bill Gates and Windows et al. I call it friendly competition. Liken it to the Friar's club roasts. It's all done in good fun. Thank You OSNews for posting my article. Mon, 27 Jan 2003 22:10:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? Keeping this short cause I don't like wasting my time. But there are clearly two extreme's that OS creators must balance constantly. They are function vs user-friendlyism. Some people like to know technical information like how many Gigabytes of hard disk space they have, others couldn't care. This makes it difficult for application creators and OS creators to create one-flavor-suites-all software.

With your example about installing software. I like telling my computer where to install programs to, so I can organize my files. I can't stand when installers just decide for me where the files should go. Some people may like "Program Files" others may rather install programs into several directories broken into categories like "Games", "Multimedia", "Document Editing" ...

Anyways. I think you are onto something, but I think you should begin to examine the tradeoffs. I have 1001 ideas of how windows could be better. (Like transfering settings from one computer to the next easier...) But there are many things that need to be considered. Mon, 27 Jan 2003 22:11:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? I think we should return to only one button,and make them perfectly round so you can't tell which way is up. Mon, 27 Jan 2003 22:12:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? I laughed at this article but it left me thinking about Linux as a whole.
I use Windows a lot more than Linux because I can install programs on Windows without spending an hour trying to figure out how to do it.
That is going to be the "Killer App" for Linux. Auto install.
Yes, I know that RPMs are supposed to make this easier but I am still kind of clueless on this. Mon, 27 Jan 2003 22:16:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? Mr. Yamauchi what were you smoking while writing this stuff???? Mon, 27 Jan 2003 22:16:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? I agree with Tux & Kyle, sure windows has its faults, but so does linux

i have had NO problem with XP stability, this is because I decide that i want a stable system and also performance so instead of buying something like a 5mb agp card by some company i have never heard of, i buy a make such as NVIDIA ( it might be hard for some of you people to say seeming as youve been living in your parents basement gathering dust while you play with yourself over re-compiling your kernel)

and id also like to say is that Windows is free:
step 1: borrow a mates computer preferrably with a high speed internet connection and a cd-rw

Step 2: goto a WAREZ site eg www.warez.com

Step 3: search for windows xp

Step 4: Download the file

Step 5: write it to cd

Step 6: install and apply the random cdkey hack bundled in the zip

step 7:install drivers if you would prefer to have high refresh rates, resolutions and colour depth

step 8: apply service packs by clicking the "yes" button on the update website, and there you blow all the patches you will need until the next service pack all in one.

i have recently tried Mandrake linux, it runs, it has icky default drivers.

it didnt find my network card, which is meant to be linux compatible and it said in the readme compatible with Linux kernel v2.4+ and seeming as im using mandrake 9.0 which uses the 2.45 kernel.

i would also like to install the latest hardware drivers for system performance, because the bundled ones barely run any form of 3d rendering in linux, and that is bullshit seeming as it is an NVIDIA geforce 4 ti-4600

so i goto nvidia and read their notes on installing drivers for linux, 1)find the GFX file which matches the version of the driver you are going to install which also has to match your linux kernel version and distributor.

then here comes the juicy part, to install fresh type $ ivh-nvidia-1926.rpm
(what the hell is with IVH, I gave up command prompts when i was 10)
surely linux could learn that if they want to take users away from windows, having drivers which just install when you run an executable file would be nice!!!!

and another point: virii and holes etc, they only exist because people find them, if the fight was between Sun and Linux, what do you think would happen, suddenly lots of holes would mysteriously appear and oh no whats this dave just got a mailware virus which recompiles his kernel to display "You Suck" 10000s of times.

im not saying microsoft is innocent, but Linux aint easy either.

linux impresses me in some aspects, but lets me down in others, variety is nice, but when there is over 20 distributions to choose from, its jus a little mindnumbing... Mon, 27 Jan 2003 22:22:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? This is the stupidest thing I've ever read, even for a joke article. Mon, 27 Jan 2003 22:26:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? I only had time to skim the article (lunch break), but one mistake I caught is that you don't get a dialog box when double clicking on a zip file in XP - it has built-in support for zip files.
Of course, I guess I could be like the Linux pundets by calling him a moron and insulting his mother, but I won't go there.

As I see it, like another user said, it's all about tradeoffs. Choosing to run Windows means I take a hit on security but at the same time, I can go out and buy pretty much any of the current best selling PC games and play them on my OS, without the limitations inherent by using WineX.
It basically boils down to what's most important to you and what you want most. Neither Linux, Windows, Mac, etc will give you everything - they ALL have their shortcomings, and this article points out most of the shortcomings of Windows. The difference here is that you don't see a bunch of Windows zealots personally attacking the author or denouncing all of his claims because of one or two technical errors in the article.

I for one will readily admit that Windows isn't perfect and certainly isn't for everyone. Why can't the Linux/Mac zealots do the same? Mon, 27 Jan 2003 22:34:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? >if linux works for you, use it. if windows works for you, use it. >if bsd works for you, use it. just shut the hell up about why >you like one or the other. and if you really have such a beef >with an operating system, put your money where your mouth >is and try to make it better, or start work on an alternative.

STFU! This is all nice and heart-warmingly logical - if you consider the private market! But when it comes to professionals who has to work with that Terrible Horror from Redmond, just because their locked into some silly buzz-talk-marketing-shit-world where there is no other option, life is truly hell on earth! I think I speak for a whole lot of techs around the globe when I scream: "Give me Linux, or give me death!" And no, relocating or quitting is not an option at this time... Mon, 27 Jan 2003 22:35:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? Cory, I agree, Ryan's post is dumb beyond belief Mon, 27 Jan 2003 22:36:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? Sorry Ryan, but I´ll tell you , you´re the kind of person Bill is waiting for beacuse in that way he got windows as "standard?" . I think M$ left people copy windows in order to be in every computer... that´s the bussiness.

One ring to .... Mon, 27 Jan 2003 22:39:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? So when is the other article about how Linux got to be so entrenched at 97% of user base coming out.

Anyway esp liked the bit about reinstalling, just off the top of head, using a ramdrive to hold current file system, reformatting and hopefully reinstalling from the ram drive, like that could work. Mon, 27 Jan 2003 22:39:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? This article was slightly (mostly) inspired from an article about Linux on the Desktop, Why or How.

I was not on any drugs (never ever) or alchohol(since New Year's Eve). It was 4am.

I was writing for humor and not for fact. I exagerated and mispelled on purpose in some areas. Please don't ask me where I was making things up because I will probably lie again for fun.
I put a few links to articles where I had links. http://news.com.com/2100-1001-982131.html
(I probably should have had a link to that in my writing)
ATM's for Bank of America REALLY were having trouble because of SQL slammer, but your home pc most likely would not be affected. Some DB and Dev tools can make you vulnerable (if not patched).

Yes it was childish of me, but so is love, and poetry, and riding roller coasters. Sometimes you have to live a little. I was roasting Windows, not flaming it.
Thanks for your comments Mon, 27 Jan 2003 22:42:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? No shit...really? It was a joke retard. :-P Mon, 27 Jan 2003 22:49:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? No shi#...really? It was a joke retardo. :-P Mon, 27 Jan 2003 22:51:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? I agree with the person who posted that you use what works for you. For what I do, linux is better since I have 11 production servers running linux, I can simulate them on my laptop, test new software, and have a staging ground for new code.

If you have no use for linux don't install it. Its that simple. If you install it and its way over your head, then you know you have a lot to learn about computers. Hell, when I have hardware and it says its supported but its not working, I open the kernel source, find out why, fix it, recompile the module, and then go on my way. Mon, 27 Jan 2003 22:58:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? I need to patch KDE so I don't use these inferior colours. Help me or I'l have to install XP.

Very funny article. Some people can't take a joke can they. Mon, 27 Jan 2003 23:10:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? I didn't think the article was funny at all. I considered it an accurate review.

However, a major ommision is obvious to me. Let's take the case of the five (that I can think of at the moment) ways to install a device driver. Well there might be five different ways to do it, but for any given piece of hardware, probably only two or three of them will work. An example; randomly take five different HP Printers from DeskJet, LaserJet, Networked, Local, of varying vintage from a LaserJet III si to an 8550DN and you may have five different ways of installing the driver(s).

When using an Operating System I might not have a "wizard" to walk me through the process (and often fail) but at least I don't have to guess at how to do it.

Or, how about hardware that you install before the software vs. software that you install before the hardware?

I must say that I absolutely concur with Richard Keiichi Yamauchi, Jr. that Windows is not yet ready for the desktop.

And what's up with this "A:", "C:", etc. thing? What the he11 is that supposed to represent? Why is it still here? Okay, maybe it was acceptable in DOS 2.1 (the time I quit using CP/M) but it's the same as paying $10,000 for a new Harley Davidson motorcycle that sounds horrible and runs like sh1t because it's engine was poorly designed back in the early 1950s.

XP introduced the highly touted "Compatibility Wizard" (or whatever it's called), so why can't it work with a program that runs from a mapped network drive? It's just plain stupidity.

The popup I hate most is the "Your system is running low on virtual memory...", could Windows bother to check that I have enough physical memory that the machine NEVER swaps? Apparently not.

Next in line is the "If you change a file extension it may become unusable." F**K YOU Windows! Why is there not a "Never show this again" checkbox? Why should it become "unusable" anyway? Why can't Windows figure out what kind of file it is? Operating Systems can do this, why not Windows?

Bayerwerke Mon, 27 Jan 2003 23:10:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? Really stupid.

Thanks for wasting the last 15 mins of my life. Mon, 27 Jan 2003 23:26:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? ...a virus can't recompile a kernel. He'd have to run as root for that. Only an idiot would read his mail (and click executable attachments) as root.

MS's dismal security record is not only due to the fact that it's the most popular OS, it's also because of some serious design flaws (many of which have been patched, true, but who knows how many remain?) Holes don't exist because people find them, they exist because of poor software engineering.

Also, off the top of my head, I can tell you that the command to install the NVIDIA driver is "rpm -ivh [file name.rpm]", not "ivh"...

I also think that NVIDIA doesn't actually make cards, but graphic chips. But maybe I'm wrong on this one and they actually produce cards.

Finally, pirating Windows is a criminal offense, so in fact it is NOT free. If you want free you should use Linux instead. (And, no, there is no "2.45" kernel yet - Mandrake 9 uses the 2.4.19 kernel, IIRC.) Mon, 27 Jan 2003 23:41:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? It's ironic that even though I use windows, defending it is the last thing on my mind! Anyone that would defend windows is an idiot. This article is so true about what a piece of crap OS windows is. I just thank god I still have 98 and not XP! Mon, 27 Jan 2003 23:44:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? It has shut the mouths of all pro-Windows trolls that infest OSNews (which itself is an impartial site, IMHO).

Humour really is much better than cold argumentation. I guess we're leaving the "then they fight you" phase and entering the "we laugh at them" stage. Mon, 27 Jan 2003 23:47:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? It's a nice idea but not everyone who uses a computer is an idiot. A computer is a general-purpose tool and to get the most out of it you should learn how it works. If you want a photo, use a camera! If you want to watch a video, use a video player! If you want to write a letter, use a pen! Duh!!!

If you want to do it all on the one machine, expect some complexity. Don't dumb down a extremely useful and powerful machine for the sake of a group of people who still have trouble programming a video recorded. Mon, 27 Jan 2003 23:56:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? very funny!!! Tue, 28 Jan 2003 00:00:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? I have to admit that I am a pro Windows guy (it's just faster and more consistant), but your article was really great.

It was hilarious to read, please make a follow up like "Why MacOS is not ready for the Desktop yet".

And don't take the people telling you how dumb you are too seriously.

Nice work Tue, 28 Jan 2003 00:01:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? i should say that windows has already eliminated the double-click annoyance. it is called web-mode! it is ingenius! everything is like a webpage, why learn another OS and the internet? combine the 2. the only problem is that it is not turned on by default - hopefully this will be fixed in windows xp 2 2003 pro... Tue, 28 Jan 2003 00:41:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? i should say that windows has already eliminated the double-click annoyance. it is called web-mode! it is ingenius! everything is like a webpage, why learn another OS and the internet? combine the 2. the only problem is that it is not turned on by default - hopefully this will be fixed in windows xp 2 2003 pro...

Unfortunately, his complaint (though he's joking around) is true... people still double click on hyperlinks and it's one of my pet peeves... I always yell at people for doing it... ok, I don't yell, but I let them know they don't need to do it, they're wasting energy by clicking twice... and cutting the life of their mouse in half.

Seriously though, isn't this article a couple months early for April fool's day? Tue, 28 Jan 2003 00:46:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? I enjoyed that artical alot thanks to the author for making me laugh out loud, i think that you just have to laugh at this dont take it so seriously

I use windows 2000 and SuSE linux 8.1 windows annoyed me so i wanted to try somehting new i have to use both at univeristy and i think they both have ups and downs (altho im still learning alot about linux) but i think that you should use what you prefer

just look at it like a car, you drive what you want to drive, not what someone tells you if you have a 5 person family your not going to buy a 2 person sports car are you?

Thanks again
Dan Tue, 28 Jan 2003 01:15:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? I see the point of the article. But I think there must be a reason common critiques emerge in the 'Linux for the Desktop' reviews. Making fun of Windows users may be satisfying but doesn't gain any converts to Linux. The only message I can get from this article is that the concerns of Windows users are not worth addressing because the Linux alternative is so obvious (to them). I suspect many intelligent Windows users learned by looking over the shoulders of others. Unfortunately with Linux most people don't have that luxury so they try to do things the 'Windows Way' the Linux way may be better but the only place they can get help is in forums dominated by arrogant people who make statements like 'just simply recompile the kernel', recompiling a kernal may be easy and I could probably learn how if I had somebody friendly enough and knew how it was done looking over my shoulder instead of some jerk in a forum telling me I'm a moron. I apologize for the rant. But get sick of being told I'm a slave to Microsoft without being given a alternative that is at least 95% as usable as Windows. Tue, 28 Jan 2003 01:25:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? Great article, and so true : )

To the Troll's, There's really only 2 reasons to use windows for 2 groups of people. 1, the some handy gamers. They want to play games and do 'other' stuff. Playing games is somewhat possible in linux, but let's not get into that.

then there's the second group, the office users. Since M$ everywhere you look is M$ office and all secretaries are only tought M$ office, that's what's beeing used.

If it weren't for file incompatibilty (OpenOffice 1.01 still doesn't get word 7 (98 and 2k aswell as Office XP) files it's still not an option. However, once that's fixed, there's no reason why not to use OpenOffice with linux. The user doesn't have to install it (they don't have the rights on windows based systems either) all they have to do is use it. They can use it in whatever enviroment there is. Your mom so to say could learn to use linux, maybe even easier then windows.

For the 'other' stuff the gamers want to do, brun cd's, chat, chat more, surf the web, all that is possible in linux allready. For those tasks it's not nessasery to use windows.

Agreed that installing things isn't easy most of the time, but except for the 'gamers' that install all their stuff themselfs, or the dad's that know a little to get around, there is no need for people to install stuff.

Your mom doesn't want to install stuff, or you don't want her doing that anyway because it'll get messed up some time. She doesn't go to the store and buys a vacuum cleaner in parts either, and then wants to build it together before using it. She doesn't want to install the software for the VCR before using it, she wants to hook it up and start using it. period. Most people hate setting up the damn clock. Why can't a computer be the same? Turn it on, use it, done using it, turn it off. Simple as that. Thing is, you then need a technician of some sort to do that job, and joe user wants to do that. Maybe some day this will all change who knows.

Image the future, people have software controled friges, garagedoors that know when to open and who to open for etc etc. now imagine all this run by a central windows server, you don't want joe user to be able to just mess it all up, and call service again (or maybe you do, since it's money for the service guys : ) I think you are getting my point, and I wanna go to sleep before i write hours of text : ) Tue, 28 Jan 2003 01:34:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? I've used linux for over 3 years now and only boot to windows to play games : ) Tue, 28 Jan 2003 01:35:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? To the Troll's, There's really only 2 reasons to use windows

This single comment makes the rest of his post irrevalent, because the fatal flaw of Linux pundets is that they assume that for about 98% of people out there, all they do with their computers is browse the web, write letters, chat, and burn CDs.
I offer you this challenge - pick about 100 families at random in the United States, go through their software collection, and see how much of it has a Linux equivalent. I think you might be surprised by the results when you realize that there's more in Joe User's software library than MS Office and Norton AntiVirus. Tue, 28 Jan 2003 01:57:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? The title for this informative article was really good, but there is one major flaw in the article.

It should have been about installing windows xp, mentioning how the partitioner is not good enough, how you can't resize partitions without destroying the partition table.

Also once you reach the end of the setup, you mention something about Luna, and thats it, that's where the article stops.

Then us regular OSNEWS readers start posting comments about how stupid the article is "Arrgh not another about how easy it is to install windows xp....."

Ciao. Tue, 28 Jan 2003 01:57:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? Every problem he had has been sloved in OSX. Tue, 28 Jan 2003 02:07:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? Thanks for an interesting article. It sounds very sensible to me, I have had trouble trying to install Windows, when I lost the piece of paper with the licence key on it. I think is a bit difficult for some computer users, since we're not all used to licence keys and things. I think that sort of thing puts off some new users.

The article was a bit technical though, I didn't understand all the acronymns. Also I think all the negative comments people made -- like it's a dumb article and shut the hell up -- these aren't helpful for new users. If someone has a helpful suggestion, they should say it, and not just expect everyone else to know.

After hearing the problems that are still there at the moment, I will probably stay with Linux for a bit, since that's what everyone at university uses, and it does most of the stuff I want.

Anyway, thanks for a great article, and I'm keen to see how Windows does in the future, since I really love what I've read about the capitalist ideal, and I think it would be great to be able to all the stuff I want with software designed by the market model. The idea of software designed to look after the consumer is a really good thing, in my opinon. I think it's kind of sad that so many universities still use Linux, which kind of shows their academic mindset, since Linux is all just about earning academic esteem, and not about looking after the consumer. Tue, 28 Jan 2003 02:09:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? You have a point, Peter. I agree that not everyone is a novice.

{sigh} There are so many things in these comments ...

1. I agree fully with all the folks who have said that any OS should run cleanly and with security. They should. "Oh, well we have 11,000,000 lines of cone here!" is not an excuse. The job of the company producing a software package is to produce clean, usable software, not stuff that needs endless patching. If something does get into the market that is broken, it should be fixed and made available for free to all licensed users, and they should be notified of where to get the free re-issue. A licensed user should never have to call to find out about a fix that already exists. Especially to a toll-charge phone number that connects them to a 45-minute (or longer!)waiting cue.

2. Some people are novices, and some are experts. Some, (like me) are somewhere on the spectrum in between. Yes, I can RTFM, and probably understand it better than most, because writing them is what I do for a living. However, in some things, I do not feel that it is appropriate for a person to be required either to behave as if they were complete idiots or as if they were a Root Guru. One of these is wit regard to loading new software.

3. When I load a new piece of software, if I have previously designated it so, I want the system to ask me where to put it. Otherwise, I want it automatically put into the Software folder, with that being the default. I do not want to be asked each time, or repetitively.

4. Asking if I am sure is a crutch. It teaches me that I do not have to be careful about what I do, because somehow the OS will rescue me. BS. At least there should be a way to decide in one place which things you want to be querried about, and which not. That should include selections for 'Query All' and 'Query None'.

5. Command lines are for technological snobs. Sorry guys, but the technology has progressed beyond that. We are in a world where computers can write their own software. I should not need to go in and type on a DOS or *NIX command line all the gobbledygook that is needed to get a file retrieved. I can do it from a mouse menu many times faster, and I insist on having that capability. That being said, if you need to fix something and can not get the graphic (as a writer, I refuse to say graphical) interface to work, it is nice to have the ability to get in using a command line if you absolutely have to.

6. I am not in the business of writing an OS. M$ is. By the definition of that M$ symbol for Microsoft, we all acknowledge that. And BSD and several others also are in the same business regarding *NIX. I should not have to "go write it myself". I should only (along with several million other interested parties) have to voice my opinions about what I want.

7. Several people here have commented about what line editor is the best. So will I. But not in the context of which one is easiest to use, although I prefer my favorite to any of the *DIT. Unfortunately, it has been so long since I used a line editor that I almost can no longer remember the name of the program, but it was called Brief. The signature characteristic of Brief was that it consisted of a microkernal that looked for a script to run. All of the functions of Brief were scripts. The Brief package came with a set of quite sophisticated function scripts. If you did not like the way something worked, you could go in and easily modify the particular function script to make it work the way you wanted it to do, including the way the user interface looked and worked. Brief included the most versatile search and replace tool that I have ever used. It made the one in today's MS Word look like a playtoy. Unfortunately, many people acted like one friend here and copied the package instead of paying for it. The company that produced this lovely editor went out of business about 10 years ago, and the old versions no longer will run under any form of Windows above Win 95. But this little program vividly demonstrated my next point.

6. There is no excuse for stupid programs or fixed user interfaces. Brief proved that. I once reworked brief to present a user interface and functions that were indistinguishable from the then-available DOS version of MS Word. It worked immaculately. If I can do this, so can anyone. Most will not want to, but they should have the capability available if they do.

John Tue, 28 Jan 2003 02:30:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? But still funny. Tue, 28 Jan 2003 02:40:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? Why can't linux/unix have obvious and simple commands like edit? Is there a (heaven forbid!) DOS-like shell for linux? Interesting idea, with freedos and all. I wonder how hard it would be... Tue, 28 Jan 2003 02:49:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? If the author doesn't receive a large cheque from Macro$quash (microsoft), in the mail very soon for being so PRO-Windows, I'll be shocked!

GOOD LORD!! What waste of time reading that article was. People want OPTIONS, and *NOT* to have everything done in the background for you so that when things break (cuz we all know how good version 1.x of anything Microsoft is), we can actually have a clue as to where to start fixing it.

What did me in was the author's suggestion that Microsoft should pre-aprove every software written! AHhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! If that's not a complete nightmare I don't know what is! It's people like you that probably stand up and clap for dictators in politics.

I will give you one thing, Microsoft Windows XP is FAR better IMO than any previous windows so far, and further I also agree it is not ready for Joe RedNeck to start using as it is far too complex to be intuitive. When voice recognition a la Star Trek is available in computers, then finally Joe Redneck can actually make use of a computer from day 1 without having to fiddle around with obscure technologies such as keyboards and mice, nevermind learning where to double click or single click.

One last thing... Perhaps the answer is upon installing windows to be able to toggle beginner, intermediate or advanced mode - which would affect the way users interact with Windows i.e. many prompts about how things should be installed, or a blind-single-click-install-with-all-default-options.

Just my 2 cents.
Adeptus Tue, 28 Jan 2003 03:29:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread?
And what's up with this "A:", "C:", etc. thing?


That's still there because it's simpler for normal people to "c:" than "cd /mnt/hda0" not to mention "mount (...)", it's not as powerfull but it's simpler. Tue, 28 Jan 2003 03:50:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? I don't find it particularly intuitive to access volumes by randomly assigned latters. Not that I find the "cd /mnt/sd0d" method any more intuitive, but does one always have to choose the best of two evils?
Besides, both methods are fundamentally flawed. They're not powerful at all, really. Windows drive letters are assigned by no apparent scheme in particular, and UNIX-style interface-drive-partition designations are just as brittle. Move your drive around and all falls apart.
However, MS-DOS has had volume labels since the dawn of time, yet they're only there for cosmetic reasons. As quick as C: might be to access a particular volume, Data: or Programs: is almost as quick and bloody more intuitive.
AmigaOS has has this since forever, but it seems impossible on those systems whose roots predate the popular introduction of the GUI. Tue, 28 Jan 2003 05:09:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? Seriously are there people too dumb to use Windows? Maybe some of the fringe mac users, not a flame here i know lots of mac users are quite competent. So if a redneck cant handle windows do we just give them a pencil,paper and a howto book? Tue, 28 Jan 2003 05:29:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? "Why can't linux/unix have obvious and simple commands like edit? Is there a (heaven forbid!) DOS-like shell for linux? Interesting idea, with freedos and all. I wonder how hard it would be..."


`mcedit textfile` not good enough for ya? :o) Tue, 28 Jan 2003 06:45:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? Just in case someone out there thought this guy actually had a point...

i have had NO problem with XP stability, this is because I decide that i want a stable system and also performance so instead of buying something like a 5mb agp card by some company i have never heard of, i buy a make such as NVIDIA

What does this have to do with the OS? Bad hardware is bad hardware...but it's a lot easier to make bad Windows hardware, since the Linux OS is open source.

( it might be hard for some of you people to say seeming as youve been living in your parents basement gathering dust while you play with yourself over re-compiling your kernel)

Cute.

and id also like to say is that Windows is free:
step 1: borrow a mates computer preferrably with a high speed internet connection and a cd-rw

OK, so Windows is free too because you can steal it. Also cute.

step 8: apply service packs by clicking the "yes" button on the update website, and there you blow all the patches you will need until the next service pack all in one.

Yeah, which will come out in a year and a half, six months after the next Code Red worm hits...

i have recently tried Mandrake linux, it runs, it has icky default drivers

And the default Windows drivers aren't? Besides, that's a failing of the card OEM, not the OS.

it didnt find my network card, which is meant to be linux compatible and it said in the readme compatible with Linux kernel v2.4+ and seeming as im using mandrake 9.0 which uses the 2.45 kernel.

Linux has had better network support than Windows for over a decade. You might have a $400 Nvidia 3D card, but you sure must have bought a piece of s**t network card for Linux not to find it. Oh, and there's no such kernel version as 2.45.

(he goes to get the driver from Nvidia's web site)

then here comes the juicy part, to install fresh type $ ivh-nvidia-1926.rpm
(what the hell is with IVH, I gave up command prompts when i was 10)

You obviously gave up command prompts because you were unable to read, since I can tell you just by looking at that command that it won't work.

surely linux could learn that if they want to take users away from windows, having drivers which just install when you run an executable file would be nice!!!!

Why would I want a 100K graphical installer when I can just type "rpm -ivh " (yes, that's the right command, genius) and be done with it? Oh wait, I know, because you have to learn about the rpm program, which would require reading. My bad.

and another point: virii and holes etc, they only exist because people find them, if the fight was between Sun and Linux, what do you think would happen, suddenly lots of holes would mysteriously appear and oh no whats this dave just got a mailware virus which recompiles his kernel to display "You Suck" 10000s of times.

This is actually sort of true, but not even close to the way you're talking about. Anyone who follows the explicit instructions of any modern Linux installer is not going to be reading their email as root. But then, I guess there's that reading thing again.

(For the curious, the way I mean it's true is that yes, a virus launched from your user account can't touch the rest of the system, but it sure can wipe everything in your home directory...which is where all the most important stuff on the drive is, when you think about it. Who cares if your OS gets hosed, you can just reinstall, takes a day...compared to losing 3 years of saved school homework, email, etc. The real problem is not Linux, or Windows, it's bad computing habits.)

im not saying microsoft is innocent, but Linux aint easy either.

_Computers_ ain't easy. At least, not once you step outside the area of "I want to boot it up and check email and surf the Web" (which both KDE and GNOME are now doing as well as, or better, than Windows). I'm sorry that Microsoft and Best Buy have spent billions of dollars convincing you otherwise and you're just now finding out it's a load of crap, but that's the truth about it. If there were an equivalent "computing license" that you had to qualify for, like the one you have to get before you drive a car, we wouldn't even be having this conversation. Tue, 28 Jan 2003 06:48:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? RTMF: Read The Manual, F*cker Tue, 28 Jan 2003 07:07:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? 2. Some people are novices, and some are experts. Some, (like me) are somewhere on the spectrum in between. Yes, I can RTFM, and probably understand it better than most, because writing them is what I do for a living. However, in some things, I do not feel that it is appropriate for a person to be required either to behave as if they were complete idiots or as if they were a Root Guru. One of these is wit regard to loading new software.

Red Hat: "up2date "
Mandrake: "urpmi "
Debian: "apt-get install "

Debian is for hackers because it requires three words to install something instead of two. Oh wait, you said the mouse was faster. :p

3. When I load a new piece of software, if I have previously designated it so, I want the system to ask me where to put it. Otherwise, I want it automatically put into the Software folder, with that being the default. I do not want to be asked each time, or repetitively.

Sounds like Linux installers. In fact, Linux has a standard arrangement for its files (the "Filesystem Hierarchy Standard, or FHS for acronym lovers), so the installer generally doesn't want to _let_ you specify the location; helps other apps know where to find each other.

4. Asking if I am sure is a crutch. It teaches me that I do not have to be careful about what I do, because somehow the OS will rescue me. BS. At least there should be a way to decide in one place which things you want to be querried about, and which not. That should include selections for 'Query All' and 'Query None'.

Interesting idea; the flaw I see in it, though, is that there's no way you're going to know whether one application's idea of a "trivial" question will be "trivial" to you. This stuff should be configured on a per-program basis, so that each question gets asked at least once.

5. Command lines are for technological snobs. Sorry guys, but the technology has progressed beyond that. We are in a world where computers can write their own software. I should not need to go in and type on a DOS or *NIX command line all the gobbledygook that is needed to get a file retrieved.

It takes just as long to learn to use a GUI as it does to learn to use a command-line tool. Not only that, but one's comfort with command-line tools increases exponentially with each new one learned, since they all have the same "interface". Each GUI has to be learned separately.

I can do it from a mouse menu many times faster, and I insist on having that capability.

Haha, OK, if you say so. Maybe the first time, in an app that we're both unfamilar with...but on the second and successive times, I guarantee my shell script with all the options preconfigured will waste your GUI on speed. And quite honestly I'm not really concerned with speed of configuration for programs I only use once.

That being said, if you need to fix something and can not get the graphic (as a writer, I refuse to say graphical) interface to work, it is nice to have the ability to get in using a command line if you absolutely have to.

If you want to make this a matter of personal preference instead of speed, where you are obviously wrong, then OK. Although I personally prefer the command line for applications that don't directly benefit from having a GUI, you're not wrong for personally preferring the opposite.

6. I am not in the business of writing an OS. M$ is. By the definition of that M$ symbol for Microsoft, we all acknowledge that. And BSD and several others also are in the same business regarding *NIX.

Incorrect. BSD, Linux, etc. are not in business at all. It's a bunch of dissociated people engaging in a spare-time hobby. They don't owe you anything. Microsoft owes you a return on your $199-ish investment.

I should not have to "go write it myself". I should only (along with several million other interested parties) have to voice my opinions about what I want.

And who do you expect to fulfill this "obligation" to provide you with whatever you want, just because you say you want it, for free?

7. Several people here have commented about what line editor is the best. So will I. But not in the context of which one is easiest to use, although I prefer my favorite to any of the *DIT. Unfortunately, it has been so long since I used a line editor that I almost can no longer remember the name of the program, but it was called Brief. The signature characteristic of Brief was that it consisted of a microkernal that looked for a script to run. All of the functions of Brief were scripts. The Brief package came with a set of quite sophisticated function scripts. If you did not like the way something worked, you could go in and easily modify the particular function script to make it work the way you wanted it to do, including the way the user interface looked and worked. Brief included the most versatile search and replace tool that I have ever used. It made the one in today's MS Word look like a playtoy. Unfortunately, many people acted like one friend here and copied the package instead of paying for it. The company that produced this lovely editor went out of business about 10 years ago, and the old versions no longer will run under any form of Windows above Win 95. But this little program vividly demonstrated my next point.

6. There is no excuse for stupid programs or fixed user interfaces. Brief proved that. I once reworked brief to present a user interface and functions that were indistinguishable from the then-available DOS version of MS Word. It worked immaculately. If I can do this, so can anyone. Most will not want to, but they should have the capability available if they do.

You say you thing "technology has progressed beyond the command line" but your favorite editor is a _line editor_? You also say that programs should handle mundane configuration and "I shouldn't have to write it myself", then you immediately go into how great this editor was because you could program it so completely that it looked like an entirely different program. You need to pick a side of the fence.

John

The other John :p Tue, 28 Jan 2003 07:27:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? This was really funny. Tue, 28 Jan 2003 07:31:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? To be honest, I completly agree with this article (eventhough it was probably just meant as a joke). I like Linux but I have this weird love and hate relationship with Microsoft Windows. I hate it because all the real nerds do. But I still use it because all the customers run it, all my friends run it, all my games run on it, and I program in Visual Basic because not everybody has a Java Virtual Machine on their computer.
It is also very weird that the most nerds (like me) should hate M$ Winhoax (as everyone lovingly calls it).
The only thing we all should hate it the way thay monolopize our computers by pestering other companies. They build in a Zip (bye bye WinZip) of their own, CD-ROM software (bye bye Nero), ect. ect. when will they own all software companies? Tue, 28 Jan 2003 07:35:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? >10. Freedom. You can use the inter net with Windows XP. It's built in.


Who wrote this article? They should be stabbed in the face 550 times and then be forced to go down on a 300lbs crack addict.

Looks like someone here is a J O O =) Tue, 28 Jan 2003 07:44:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? I still perfer GNU/Linux over an OS who's license is proprietary.

I have much faith in the Gnome project and expect to see it surpassing this "Linux will never be a desktop OS". Well no Sh!t... "Linux" is just the kernel

The tools and even ease of use is at your finger tips on most current default GNU/Linux distros. You just have to break away fromy our win32 worlds and explore and learn. You did it for Windows at one point or another... Tue, 28 Jan 2003 07:49:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? This one really was good having used Windows for years-I recovered from my habit and followed the 12 steps to Linux. (Thanks to the higher power) For MS trolls-AGH you really know how to ruin a good article.

I have used and on occasion use Windows. I also Use Linux. I will tell you this is more true than the garbage on information week: http://www.informationweek.com/story/IWK20030124S0013/1

Keep it up and congrats on an entertaining article!!! Tue, 28 Jan 2003 12:00:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? >Why can't linux/unix have obvious and simple commands like
>edit?

It can.

ln -s /usr/bin/edit Tue, 28 Jan 2003 12:35:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? I think it's kind of sad that so many universities still use Linux, which kind of shows their academic mindset, since Linux is all just about earning academic esteem, and not about looking after the consumer.

Right on! After all, academic mindset has no place on universities! Tue, 28 Jan 2003 15:59:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? Didn't the corvair run Windows? Tue, 28 Jan 2003 18:25:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? You said: "I should not need to go in and type on a DOS or *NIX command line all the gobbledygook that is needed to get a file retrieved. I can do it from a mouse menu many times faster, and I insist on having that capability."

While I agree with you that every important command should have a GUI equivalent (and now, in Linux, it does), you're sorely mistaken if you think it's faster to use mouse and menus. I'm sory, but as far as raw speed is concerned, nothing beats the command line with autocomplete, ESPECIALLY for file operations. But of course you can do it graphically with Linux. BTW, as a GUI, the latest incarnation of KDE (3.1) is way ahead of Windows XP in # of feature and user-friendlines... Tue, 28 Jan 2003 18:52:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? If Windows were like Linux:

INSTALLING
1) Recently, I have brought XXX Windows for just as little as EUR 50,-.
2) Step 2 installation: select keyboard layout. I have some strange layout, probably Dutch as I live there, but when I select it, it does not work. All keys are wrong, should this be the English layout?
3) Installation tells something about Partitioning. Just press Next I think... After installation it tells about wino or something like that, and about boots, well, just press OK.
4) The sound card is supported, is installed, but does not work.

UPDATING
1) I read there is a new WinDesk available. As I have cable, let's use the Windows Update to install it. But heck, already at getting the update *description* the computer crashes.
2) After that crash, it is nice that the system does not need to Scandisk, but starts immediately. Well, then I will continue using the old WinDesk. Or well... on windesk.com I see .INS packages.
3) The manual states "wins /install package", thus "wins /install windesk.ins" should do it. Hmm. gives some "Dependancy Failure". I need libms-c#-1.2-12332.so.3,
4) However, on the Update page I only find version 1.2-82191. So let's install that. Actually, it does not work, there is some kind of `conflict'.

ASKED MY FRIEND TO HELP
1) After installing, I only get 640x480. He has reconfigured some things with Xaw, the eXtended Advanced Windows, and something with modelines, and it seems to work now.
2) After he has edited drivers.ini, and removed a ', now the sound works too.
3) There seems to be Winus, some other weird update service. Here I can get a non-official weird version of the new Windesk that seems to work...

P.S. This is based on my old SuSE 7.3 - the new Debian 3.0 works a lot better, I must admit, just add a line to sources.list and run "apt-get update; apt-get dist-upgrade; apt-get install kde" to have all done. Tue, 28 Jan 2003 19:11:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? Hey kids this is known as a "ROAST" as in Dean Martin, Don Rickles.
All OSs should get this treatment - I LOVE this type of article.
FUN.
Remember fun?
LOL! Tue, 28 Jan 2003 20:15:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? Brief, made by Underware, was purchased by Borland circa 1992-1993. It was promoted for a brief period of time and then discontinued. I don't know what's become of it. Presumably Borland still has it in their vaults somewhere. Tue, 28 Jan 2003 23:30:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments