http://www.osnews.com/story/3015/In_With_The_Old_ Exploring the Future of Computing en-us Copyright 2001-2012, David Adams adam+nospam@osnews.com Mon, 13 Feb 2012 05:12:22 GMT http://www.osnews.com/images/osnews.gif http://www.osnews.com http://www.osnews.com/thread? http://www.osnews.com/thread? Hah! My day job is a mainframe programmer for the State of Alaska. Using OS/390, with TSO, Roscoe, and CICS as the interfaces. Heavy use of Cobol and Natural for application development. As of this year, my department is the ONLY department that uses the mainframe, every other department got a brain and switched to more cost saving solution, aka NON-MAINFRAME!

So, our department is planning on phasing out the mainframe junk in 5 years and move on to better things. We are currently in the transistion stage, converting all of our cobol and natural code/programs to dotnet.. yay.

Oh well. As I was reading more and more of this post, I just started laughing. This is clearly a joke and it isnt even April Fool's Day yet!! hahaha, oh well. It was a great laugh.

Oh yay, Im first post! Or was at the time of typing this.. donno if it's true now.. Wed, 12 Mar 2003 05:29:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://www.osnews.com/thread? http://www.osnews.com/thread? I went back and read the article. Realized that this guy was talking about emulators for the mainframe... I guess the joke is on me, heh . Wed, 12 Mar 2003 05:30:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://www.osnews.com/thread? http://www.osnews.com/thread? the VM operating system sounded very cool. 40,000 VM's running at once? wow. This is just good stuff. Wed, 12 Mar 2003 05:36:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://www.osnews.com/thread? http://www.osnews.com/thread? Well this is definitely the coolest article of the week. Jeff Boulier not sure if you are involved or just posting this but either way thanks.

Shannara -
I don't know why you think OS390 (now zOS) is junk. I think you'll find what ever you switch too to be a downgrade. Maybe you haven't updated your hardware or software enough or something but the zSeries are great machines anything else is at best moderately less functionality for a lot less money. Wed, 12 Mar 2003 05:45:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://www.osnews.com/thread? http://www.osnews.com/thread? When I first got into IT, it was then called "Data Processing' in the very early 80's, the shop I worked at had an IBM S/370 mainframe running VMS, CMS and God knows what else.

I used to sneak into the Systems Programmer's office at night and study the manuals because I was curious. I even crashed a VMS job and had gained enough skill to somewhat cover my tracks.

Later on, they got an IBM S/38, one of the AS/400's parents, and we were amazed at the relational database system it ran.

I may grab one of these emulators and see if I can get VMS running just for fun and memories Wed, 12 Mar 2003 05:59:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://www.osnews.com/thread? http://www.osnews.com/thread? Glad you liked the article! I had a good time writing it, not to mention playing with all those old OSes. I'm not clever enough to be involved in developement of those emulators, but I'm happy to try to get the word out!

Yours truly,
Jeffrey Boulier Wed, 12 Mar 2003 06:12:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://www.osnews.com/thread? http://www.osnews.com/thread? Not sure were to post this but I'm having problems loading up osnews on Opera 7 (I tried sending different idinenty strings with opera) and IE 6 but it's working on phoenix. I tested other pages with both browsers and they work fine but this site won't load Wed, 12 Mar 2003 06:26:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://www.osnews.com/thread? http://www.osnews.com/thread? Own your own Main Frame right now
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3405163151&a...
A Nice UNIVAC III for sale $10000, it needs a good home. I would buy it but im poor. Wed, 12 Mar 2003 06:31:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://www.osnews.com/thread? http://www.osnews.com/thread? I think you want IBM's VM/370; if you install DEC/Compaq/HP's VMS you're going to be very surprised! VM was a walk through memory lane for me as well. My first real job was migrating users from my University's VM/SP [HPO] mainframe to Solaris.

Never had the chance to work on any of the AS/400 vintages, but I've always been a admirer of the design concept. It might be fun to pick one up off of Ebay -- small ones are PC-sized and not particularly expensive.

Yours truly,
Jeffrey Boulier Wed, 12 Mar 2003 06:34:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://www.osnews.com/thread? http://www.osnews.com/thread? My God! I'm glad I read this article - my own copy of MVS - bliss! Wed, 12 Mar 2003 06:36:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://www.osnews.com/thread? http://www.osnews.com/thread? Because we all know that anybody that actually uses a computer is a wimp. Wed, 12 Mar 2003 07:55:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://www.osnews.com/thread? http://www.osnews.com/thread? Aaah, memories... Started working on IBM mainframes in '79 or so (holiday job). Joined the System Operations department for real some years later. About 8 IBM mainframes ranging from a 3033 to 3081&83s and, in the end a 3090 all running MVS or VM. Oldest disks (3330) had disk 'packs' that had to be screwed in. Later, the diskfarm grew to the size of a fotballl field. There was also this giant Mass Storage System (3850) with honeycombed interior containing data cartridges. VERY impressive. And if you think your LaserPrinter is fast, you clearly haven't seen a 3800 in action. "System Operations Analist" the job was called. Started out mounting tapes the whole night, then moved to the 3800 printer and finally to the consoles running batchjobs all day&night, rebooting mainframes. Weird, all that cutting edge technology from way back then now reduced to junk and memories. Wed, 12 Mar 2003 08:25:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://www.osnews.com/thread? http://www.osnews.com/thread? Just a little note, VMS was the native OS for the VAX. MVS however was what ran on the IBM S/3x0, ES9000 and maybe still runs on the Z-series. Wed, 12 Mar 2003 08:59:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://www.osnews.com/thread? http://www.osnews.com/thread? We still have some of those old Mainframe printers here at work. Plain text only but they print out pages of data very, very fast. Wed, 12 Mar 2003 09:42:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://www.osnews.com/thread? http://www.osnews.com/thread? Managed an old beaten MicroVAX 3900 during my military service (94-96). Inlove with VMS and DCL ever since. Wed, 12 Mar 2003 10:46:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://www.osnews.com/thread? http://www.osnews.com/thread? funny Wed, 12 Mar 2003 11:51:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://www.osnews.com/thread? http://www.osnews.com/thread? Didn't Fred Brooks, who was responsible for this OS line, consider it a technical failure despite being financially successful? IIRC, he found it wasn't designed cohesively enough (he used a lot of not-so-good programmers vs. a small ninja team) and believed that it's not the sort of OS that would attract a vibrant community like BeOS or OS/2. Wed, 12 Mar 2003 11:52:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://www.osnews.com/thread? http://www.osnews.com/thread? (engage smug mode)
...why not run an edsac (1949) - http://www.dcs.warwick.ac.uk/~edsac/
Which was the basis of the first business computer the Leo (1951) http://www.leo-computers.org.uk/pageone.htm Wed, 12 Mar 2003 13:12:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://www.osnews.com/thread? http://www.osnews.com/thread? Great article, Jeffrey! I'm going back to read it again! Wed, 12 Mar 2003 13:33:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://www.osnews.com/thread? http://www.osnews.com/thread? I started working at my current job about two months ago - I do java development. Anyhow, when I got here this was the first place I've been that still has OS/390 in use. I'm at a hospital that I'll leave unnamed.

Anyhow, I just thought it was funny that I read this article after being plucked down in a cube right in the middle of all these 'dinosaur' it guys still writing stuff in cobol and JCL.

I think I'll remain a pure spirit and dodge the emu, but hey, it was a great read. Wed, 12 Mar 2003 15:36:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://www.osnews.com/thread? http://www.osnews.com/thread? You guys have been running some good articles lately. It's nice to see something different.

Have you checked out mess or its cousin mame?

BTW, I am still pumped about that C=64 webserver. Wed, 12 Mar 2003 16:06:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://www.osnews.com/thread? http://www.osnews.com/thread? Jeffrey-

Cool article. I'd never even heard of half these things. I suppose it would be cool to screw around with them for a little bit, but I just don't have the time to learn to use them. Ah, well...at least I can read articles like this and, at least, learn a little about computer history. Wed, 12 Mar 2003 16:37:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://www.osnews.com/thread? http://www.osnews.com/thread? I really don't think this kind of flame bait is neededto draw attention to an article. I would suggest just tellng us what you're going to tell us. Wed, 12 Mar 2003 16:40:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://www.osnews.com/thread? http://www.osnews.com/thread? ...to get a day job doing mainframe programming
(COBOL,JCL,DB2,EASYTRIEVE) so you can work somewhat
"normal" hours (i.e 7-9 per day) (as opposed to a
many PC programming jobs where you're doing 12+ hour
days) so you can

a) have more of a life
b) have more time outside of work to spend
programming the stuff you really like
(for me C++, x86 assembly, and PHP)

Yeah, I don't make as much money as some C++,
Java, .net type programmers but I do pretty
good financially and the mainframe job market
seems a little more stable than the PC programming
market. Sure, I'm on call nearly every weekend
but I don't get called much as I singlehandedly
support the mainframe application I program for
and mainframes are just rock solid compared to
the other systems at the company I work for. Even
though I don't really fit the mold for a mainframe
programmer (I'm much younger than all of my coworkers),
I'd rather be doing this than doing support for the
thousands of NT servers our company has. Those poor
desktop and server support people (a lot of interns)
have it rough. The web based mail servers on NT boxes
are always going down. They could replace a lot of
those with Linux servers but this company is in pretty
deep with the Dark Side (if you know what I mean). Wed, 12 Mar 2003 17:02:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://www.osnews.com/thread? http://www.osnews.com/thread? I've seen this kind of thing in production, sort of.

At a customer, we were replacing their IBM system with an HP9000 system.

Our software was pure Unix against a relational DB. It was back office software.

However, the software that they chose to run the front (hotel management software) was designed for the IBM. They found an emulator to run the software on the HP.

So it was an interesting mixing of both worlds.

It's also one of those little stories that should remind everyone, it's not the OS that's important, it's the application. Wed, 12 Mar 2003 17:37:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://www.osnews.com/thread? http://www.osnews.com/thread? Man, that brings it all back. I forgot about easytrieve. Wed, 12 Mar 2003 18:28:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://www.osnews.com/thread? http://www.osnews.com/thread? Using Easytrieve Plus was my last big gig on the mainframe back in '93.

I used it to format data extracted from an IMS database for transfer to another financial institution as well as the audit logs.

I feel old Wed, 12 Mar 2003 20:07:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://www.osnews.com/thread? http://www.osnews.com/thread? Ah... Memeories

I remember working in a computer centre about 1974. There was a Honeywell system that stored the data entry and I remember having to manually set the registers by flipping swithes on the front of the box.

I remember cutting JCL code on punch cards and feeding them into the card reader. Spending hours sorting out stacks of cards that I had dropped.

The joys of an IBM360, then the 370, (ISPF 2 I think I used to type on the new terminal thingy - we used the redundant cards for writing notes for years).

Sometime in the early 80's the fashion was to decentralise and I got to play with Wang V60s (can the young man emulate one of them?) and you could do something called wordprocessing on them - the beginning of the end for Mrs Nesmith's white-out.

Forgive me I'm starting to ramble. I think I'm getting a con code of 0008. I need to take my medication.

lump Thu, 13 Mar 2003 04:21:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://www.osnews.com/thread? http://www.osnews.com/thread? The UNISACK WTF9000/SP2. Ahh... those were the days. Thu, 13 Mar 2003 05:18:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://www.osnews.com/thread? http://www.osnews.com/thread? Whether a centralized "mainframe" approach is appropriate or not depends on many factors.

It sounds like your employer (the State of Alaska) tends to have computing problems that are better solved by other types of systems. However, some industries still have a fairly strong need for massively centralized (and highly reliable) computing environments.

Until relatively recently, for example, I had what I have long considered to be my dream job: as an applications programmer for a major airline. The core interactive systems which are in use there are almost all mainframe based, mainly text-based transaction systems. Some run on IBM hardware, some on Unisys Clearpath hardware. Fri, 14 Mar 2003 18:26:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments