http://www.osnews.com/story/3673/Poll_Let_s_Evaluate_Open_Source_s_Jewels Exploring the Future of Computing en-us Copyright 2001-2009, David Adams adam+nospam@osnews.com Sat, 04 Jul 2009 09:54:15 GMT http://www.osnews.com/images/osnews.gif http://www.osnews.com http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? Where's Apache? Fri, 30 May 2003 02:22:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? Forgot it.

I am going to add it now that there are only 10 votes done so far, so it is early to add two more options. Fri, 30 May 2003 02:23:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? Apache isn't really an application....

I voted Mozilla, because it is the only OSS app that I install with every closed source OS I use. It has replaced Explorer for me.

Mutiny Fri, 30 May 2003 02:27:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? I chose Eclipse, because having tried several IDEs, it really is my favorite.

I came close to putting GCC, but I couldn't think of any really commercial competition. Most proprietary compilers have some defining feature that sets them apart, and justifies their existance apart from GCC.

Sorry to say that Mozilla didn't even have a chance. Waaaaaaay too much bloat. Firebird is a step in the right direction. I wish it luck.

Apache is good too. Probably would have been my second choice. I just really love Eclipse. Fri, 30 May 2003 02:27:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? Because the kernel AND userspace is one.

You also forgot gcc. Unless you wanted a run away winner, as without GCC, the rest don't run. Fri, 30 May 2003 02:28:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? What are you talking about?? GCC **WAS THERE** since second 1 of the poll.

>What about the BSD's?

BSD is not an application is an OS. We are not voting for OSes to this poll, we did that another time. Fri, 30 May 2003 02:31:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? Eugenia what are you smocking? It's like saying netscape composer & dreamweaver.
It's like comparing a cat to a cougar.

Mysql is a weak excuse for a database that gets marketed exceptionally well...Pg on the other hand is a kickass db that has crap marketting..They have nothing in common.

Pg tries to compete with Oracle.
Mysql cant even begin to compete with ms sql.

mysql has an anal license designed to rip commercial people off(as compared to pg)..Pg is BSD. Fri, 30 May 2003 02:33:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? I KNOW. But if I put there PostgreSQL and not MySQL I am going to have an uproar that I supposedly "deliberately didn't include mysql which is so much better" and all that crap. Therefore, I put BOTH the SQLs on the same option (I won't sacrifice two options just for databases) to have everyone happy, with an "OR".

I am trying to cut down the trolling over here but despite my efforts, you come over here and you talk to me like "Eugenia what are you smocking?", without understanding MY position and what happens when you have to take such choises just because your audience is so diverse. A "sorry" wouldn't hurt. Fri, 30 May 2003 02:37:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? .. Or Mozilla Firebird to be more precise. It has already surpassed it's commercial cousins. Fri, 30 May 2003 02:42:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? I don't know... I'm not sure I like the phrasing of the question. Yes, some OS apps have some work ahead to match the dominant closed-source app that most closely matches in functionality... but the question sounds like it assumes that ALL OSS apps have a gap between them and catching up to closed source. Quite a few of those apps (including the one that I voted for, Apache) simply ANNIHILATE their closed source counterparts. Fri, 30 May 2003 02:44:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? Although I must add Gnumeric should have made that list on its own merits. Anyone who has used it will attest to the fact that i is just about the most feature complete OSS application ever made. It has features rivalling MS Excel, and add quite a few of it own to the mix. It is really amazing.

Gnumeric is in my opinion the single best example of open source programming at its finest. It practically beats Excel at the spreadsheet game. The only thing missing would be intergration with a suite. Fri, 30 May 2003 02:46:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? Yeah, people here are so ungrateful. Why should Eugenia devote her time to responding to comments like "Eugenia is biased for/against {MS | Linux | BeOS | OSS | closed-source}, this site suX0r," If someone put out a newsletter as a service to a community, and then put up a messageboard near it for comments, how appropriate is it to scrawl personal attacks on it? Argh. Fri, 30 May 2003 02:46:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? Weird question. I voted Evolution for now because that's just flawless (interface, features, everything). I don't have much experience with Outlook though, only Outlook Express.

Apache and gcc are clearly topnotch but I could just as well have said fetchmail... Boring choices.

The Mozilla rendering engine is definately on par or succeeds the IE engine in terms of features and platform independence, somewhat heavier but not too much. The interface is not that great (yet) but there are enough alternative interfaces.

Gaim compares really well against Trillian in it's latest version, only more filetransfer support and a bit of polishing would be required to beat it. Version 1.0 might do it.

And The Gimp beats many expensive image manipulation programs, though probably not photoshop (yet).

Another one that just came to my mind is XChat. I always found its interface horrible and confusing (beeing an IRC newbie) but the latest Gtk2 version is awesome. Easy to understand and works a lot better than mIRC for me. There might be better proprietary IRC clients but mIRC is the "de factor standard".

Hmm XMMS? Can't get much closer to WinAmp. Fri, 30 May 2003 02:50:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? I don't know how some people vote for Mozilla Firebird, a browser in which you can't import your Mozilla bookmarks (last I checked, you click the button and nothing happens). Gimme a break. Even bookmarking is broken in the monolithic Mozilla browser! You can't even sort your bookmarks. Gimme a break people. In terms of interface IE has and still is better than Mozilla. Features, well of course Mozilla takes the cake in this department, I must admit. Fri, 30 May 2003 02:51:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? Importing works fine for me. So does bookmark sorting. How long ago was this?

(I personally think Galeon (1.2, before the horrid GTK2 switch) has a far superior interface to IE. IE doesn't even have native tabs. Come on.) Fri, 30 May 2003 02:55:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? The question was which open source thingy outdos closed source commercial applications - NOT the dominant application. Personally, Opera is far better than Mozilla (well, far is a little exageration), so that would put my vote on gaim, who has all the features I don't want, need, and is far closer on being as good, if not better, as closed source competitors (namely Trillian). Fri, 30 May 2003 02:58:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? You should ask which is closest/has surpassed closed source software.

You assume that css is better than all of them from the way its formulated which is definetely not true.

You should also say Mozilla/based. Fri, 30 May 2003 02:58:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? Mozilla is not just a browser, its a platform, with XUL (eXtensible User Interface Language), javascript and css, you can develop applictions.

sorry for my english, you can read here more:
http://www.sitepoint.com/article/1140 Fri, 30 May 2003 03:00:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? Next time, you write the polls. Fri, 30 May 2003 03:00:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? I don't know if I'd call Apache an app or not, I can see it both ways,
but netcraft seems to suggest that it is by far the best option.

Its also pretty easy to set up in os x. Hit a button. Apache!

I'm surprised more people didn't vote for gcc. The professors at my university tend to slam gcc and claim it generates poor code ... but I'm not sure I agree with them --- and either way what else supports so many damn platforms with so little trouble. GCC is relatively painless to use. When you combine it with other things I think it beats the hell out of msvc. I'm not sure I'd say its better than IOCC though. Fri, 30 May 2003 03:03:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? GCC I hear is stellar. I don't code so I didn't vote for it. I voted for the Gimp, which is far and away my favorite OSS appilcation. Its very powerful. Yes, its a UI nightmare but once you get past that I think its the one of the best OSS apps out there, along with Apache, Mozilla and Open Office.org Fri, 30 May 2003 03:08:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? I've learnt that professors are generally professors (at least in university) because they know there stuff. I'd believe them. From what I know, gcc *does* generate terrible code. It's not entirely the gcc developers fault though. Supposedly many optimization techiques are patented.

Anyways, I think gcc certainly has recently improved the most out of the apps listed. Of course, I suppose that's not what the poll asked though. Tough question, this poll. I'm fairly suprised that Mozilla is so favoured. Fri, 30 May 2003 03:16:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? > I voted for the Gimp, which is far and away my favorite OSS appilcation.

Maybe. But the poll did not ask you to vote for your favorite application. It asked you to vote for the app that can be a killer app when compared to its equivelant closed source app. The Gimp is not better than Photoshop for example, so if you do agree with this assertion, voting for the Gimp was not what the poll was asking. Fri, 30 May 2003 03:18:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? I was just wondering why some folks prefer Gaim.

I personally don't like how the statuses are managed. There is no visible indicator (that I saw) that shows your current status. To be away, you have to have another window open that shows your away message.
When you "Alias" a buddy, the first text field it takes you to is to edit the username (the actualy username on the server, not their local nickname).
The account manager feels kind of glued on. When you first run the program, it takes you to a signon screen that only lets you sign on to AIM accounts, you have to go to a seperate account manager to login to your MSN/Yahoo/whatever accounts.
The default sounds are also horrible! Does anyone use them?

All that said, it has made some improvements recently. The new layout is dramatically better (no more split tab for viewing and editing buddies), and the tray icon now works properly in KDE and Gnome. Fri, 30 May 2003 03:22:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? gaim is clearly the best at doing what it's supposed to - it's the only *cross platform* multi-protocol IM program out there that works. I love it - and it's developed by a small group.

However, as much as I love gaim, the truth is that Evolution got my vote, because it's friggin fantastic. It's clean, attractive, modern looking, fun, usuable, stable, and completely dependable.

If GTK/Windows got rid of some annoying bugs (namely the non-disappearing onmouseover messages), maybe gaim might have scored a little higher in my book. Fri, 30 May 2003 03:27:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? Just Kidding I'm not. Most of you dont even wear panties but you sure know how to bunch them up. gosh. Its a stupid poll! Fri, 30 May 2003 03:28:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? Gnumeric is in my opinion the single best example of open source programming at its finest. It practically beats Excel at the spreadsheet game. The only thing missing would be intergration with a suite.

I agree. Anyone who hasn't tried gnumeric yet should give it a try. It knocks the socks off open office and kspread. One example, try saving a large spreadsheet to sparse html format, then do the same using open office spreadsheet. Then try browsing to the html files. gnumerics will load in seconds, open office takes minutes! gnumeric also has the best import from excel filters I've seen in any open source application, and it has 99% of the features I used in excel. I can't wait for gnumeric2 to come out! Fri, 30 May 2003 03:28:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? I voted for Gaim; I think it's made some very dramatic strides, especially with .60. I prefer it over the commercial AIM (and Trillian, but Trillian is unofficial and has broken foreign encoding). My only problems are the lack of an "offline buddies" group and the higher GTK2 memory/CPU overhead (I'm feeling it on this Celeron). Probably the most important thing is that it is constantly getting better, which I certainly could not say for the commercial version (last I checked, they added some uberlame themes feature that would take up half of the IM window) Fri, 30 May 2003 03:31:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? I agree with all your points (though I don't mind the away dialog when I'm... away :p) but besides of this it's awesome. Rock solid, fairly convenient interface (for an IM client) and very good multi protocol support. Heck it even runs great on Windows! Fri, 30 May 2003 03:35:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? I think MAME pretty much blows away Microsoft's Return to Arcade. Fri, 30 May 2003 03:38:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? Anyone who hasn't tried gnumeric yet should give it a try.

I wish I would have an idea what I could use Gnumeric for. Fri, 30 May 2003 03:41:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? Well, I voted for Apache. I consider it an application, a server application. I've been using it for a couple of projects at work, and the more I learn about it, the more impressed I am.

Good poll, Eugenia. Fri, 30 May 2003 03:45:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? ...or give me death! Gnumeric is awesome but still too buggy on my box for me to totally abandon excel...can't wait to change over when v2 comes out Fri, 30 May 2003 03:48:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? I guess in light of the question I had to go apache.
simply becuase it has acheived the mark of being a standard in webserver applications.

At first I wanted to say mozilla which IMHO is next in line. Fri, 30 May 2003 04:18:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? K3b all the way! Fri, 30 May 2003 04:19:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? No other editor works as well.
VC++, CW, .... Fri, 30 May 2003 04:21:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? I use mozilla in windows over IE. There's apache and what else? Gcc makes it all possible and is also just a great app in general (the world's most portable compiler). OpenOffice is now the only office software I use, regardless of OS. I really just can't pick one... Fri, 30 May 2003 04:28:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? I recently tried k3b out, man was I ever glad I did.
sweet program.
(though I couldn't figure out how to burn from ISOs without mounting them first(x-cdroaster covered that issue for me)) Fri, 30 May 2003 04:29:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? All this talk about [Firebird not being as good as Mozilla], and [Firebird being better than Mozilla].

It should be know that the current development plan for mozilla.org is that Firebird (previously Phoenix) is to become the browser component for Mozilla.

http://www.mozilla.org/roadmap.html Fri, 30 May 2003 04:29:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? I voted for gcc because of its dominant place in the OSS world. Without gcc, there would be nothing -- no GNU, no Linux, no open source.

I would have voted apache until I saw that gcc was on the list. Fri, 30 May 2003 04:33:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? For some reason I love Grip ! That and Knode and Kmail which are simple and easy to use yet they have some neat'o' features. As for Gimp sucks for print work but for image editing it is up there with Photo Shop, that is if you know how to use it correctly. Fri, 30 May 2003 04:42:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? Vim/Vi rule as well. Fri, 30 May 2003 04:43:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? Hey Eugenia,
Sorry

I forgot about the trolling part. Would a virtual hug be a good addition to my apology? Fri, 30 May 2003 05:02:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? I voted OpenOffice: I have installed it on all of my computers and recommend it often to people needing an office suite. Mozilla second-choice: I still use IE more often - just lazy I guess.

Not too many folks voting GIMP, but I'm suprised anyone thinks it's as ready-to-use as Photoshop.

-Bob Fri, 30 May 2003 05:03:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? I have to try Eclipse ... it look like the very first IDE that may replace the good ol' MS Visual Studio in my heart :-)

As for GCC, it would be a good choice to vote for, except for one thing that annoye me : the lack of cool and modern C++ extensions like "properties" and "closure pointers" (both greatly supported by Borland & Microsoft).

All in all I voted Apache. I never used it, but it seems to be the only OSS software not only in par with commercial equivalents, but maybe even better. Two thumbs up. Fri, 30 May 2003 05:04:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? I kind of like the VideoLAN client. Nothing like playing DVDs on operating systems other than Windows or Mac. They need to get rid of the horried Gnome interface, though ... in Be, vlc is nearly perfect. Fri, 30 May 2003 06:04:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? apache and GCC really are in a class by themselves.

Apache is probably the best performance of OSS out there. They basicly created the web server market--people develop commercial servers and compare them to Apache! Not only that, but most major server vendors give it credit and help it out, even if they develop competing products.

More projects should aim to be like apache, but in reality, that level of hobby and commercial support isn't really possible for most OSS projects.

While we're on the subject, what apps could be created that would thrive in the OSS environment? What things out there can't the commercial market do because there's no money, no thougt of it, not enough cooperation, etc... A 100% WIMP-free desktop would be one, but what other things simply don't exist? Or are in too poor shape? Fri, 30 May 2003 06:05:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? The best Newsgroup reader on Linux and Windows. Fri, 30 May 2003 06:10:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? I voted OO.o... Microsoft's main claim to fame seems to be MsOffice, and OO.o is the best OSS alternative. Mozilla is bloat, the vote asked for "user freindlyness" thus the SQL and GCC etc can't be considered. Apache is easy to use to me, but I have talked to many people that say its very hard to use, thus I didn't vote that either...

OpenOffice.org seems the only choice to me, even though its very slow starting. Its the tool that will put OSS over the edge, and its the only Office suite that is capable enough AND is multi-platform. Fri, 30 May 2003 06:12:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? Taras:



Mysql is a weak excuse for a database that gets marketed exceptionally well...Pg on the other hand is a kickass db that has crap marketting..



..then..



Hey Eugenia, Sorry



Damn.. I was all ready to rip you a new one, then you had to go and apologise. Anyways, I feel it incumbent to point out that MySQL has superior performance to PG in many instances, which is why it's a popular component of LAMP (as opposed to LAPP



Spark:



"Anyone who hasn't tried gnumeric yet should give it a try."



I wish I would have an idea what I could use Gnumeric for.



It's a spreadsheet app. I don't know if you were being facetious or serious, but Linux apps can be pretty obscurely-named sometimes. If I may wander off-topic, I should mention that I like the approach Lindows and ELX and the like are taking towards desktop Linux. Once Linux is the standard, THEN we can reintroduce unintuitive-yet-fun app names like "Visio" and "Excel" and "Gnomba".



Bobthearch:



Not too many folks voting GIMP, but I'm suprised anyone thinks it's as ready-to-use as Photoshop.



Didn't we have the GIMP vs PP discussion a few articles ago? Anyways, I shall hereby introduce my patented One-Word-Rebuttal(tm):



Cinepaint.



With love and cynicism,

GG Fri, 30 May 2003 06:16:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? Please?

*puppydogeyes* Fri, 30 May 2003 06:18:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? I prefer Mozilla based browsers (Galeon and Epiphany). With popup-blocking, tabs, development tools (jScript debugger, etc), Mozilla just plain rules.

I also have to say that I LOVE Gnumeric, Gaim, Evolution and Apache. I prefer all three of these apps to their closed source companions. There are some others on there, but these are the top 4 or 5....

For those of you who use Evolution you should visit this site. It tells you how you can use bogofilter to get advanced spam filtering in Evolution....

Site url: http://www.ime.usp.br/~rsilva/bogo-and-evo/

Fun poll Eugenia Fri, 30 May 2003 06:18:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? I'm quite the forgetful soul today -- one last thought to post:

Where's the poll? I visited http://www.osnews.com/story.php?news_id=3673 with javascript enabled, and...... nuthin. No "polls" mentionned in the nav bar, the phorum, or links in the article text.

Shrugging,
GG Fri, 30 May 2003 06:23:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? What browser exactly do you use? Version and name of browser and platform please. Fri, 30 May 2003 06:25:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? I normally use Firebird 0.6 with all the goodies off. I tried to load this article with Moz 1.2.1 +js -cookies, and IE 5.5 SP2 +js -cookies. All this onw Win2kPro SP2.

PS. Weird... I just loaded it in April 4th Phoenix Nightly, and it works fine there. Fri, 30 May 2003 06:31:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? What makes successful OSS projects?

GCC is on top because it allows open source and manufacturers to interface easily. I'd venture that chips like Opteron probably had the GCC compiler in-house while the chip was on still the drawing board. It provides a vendor one module to create to access lots of software. It also provides hobbiests with one base to port projects to new platforms!

Apache is on top because it basicly created the web server market. It's probably the exception to every rule about OSS success.

Mozilla claims to suffer from poor independant developer support. Why? What makes the project inaccessable to little people. I'd venture that the large scope and language choices set it out of reach of most casual web builders. Unlike say...

PHP and MySql are very successful with little people, but the core tech is held by private companies. I'd venture that it's because both projects have bite-size pieces that make them very accessable to little people.

WWW of course is very successful again because it's filled with little people.

What design choices should be made to keep a project little-people-friendly? The choices may not be technically the best, but would allow the highest number of people to contribute meaningfully to the project. I'd venture that C++ would have to go. It's not bad, but the complexity boots most little people right out. JIT languages seem to be most popular with casual users. But it's more about bite-size pieces than language particulars.

This is getting too long....bye Fri, 30 May 2003 06:33:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? Heh,
I didnt apologize cos mysql was crappier/better. I apologized for my choice of words.

although....flat files can be faster than mysql ;P Fri, 30 May 2003 06:48:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? It's a spreadsheet app. I don't know if you were being facetious or serious,

I was serious in fact. I know it's a spreadsheet app. I just never used a spreadsheet... I don't even really know what it can do (to my infinite shame), other than that it has something to do with tables of numbers which can do calculations on itself or something along this line. =)
The best I can do with Gnumeric is open it, stare at it and close it again. Fri, 30 May 2003 06:49:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? It's definetely my favorite IDE. Fri, 30 May 2003 06:51:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? Eclipse is a much more fuller suite (it is just more complete and powerful), so for the developement category, gcc and Eclipse were enough to fill up this poll. Fri, 30 May 2003 07:06:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? How about Safari does that count? I think its more fun than Moz, Phoenix, opera, ie, camino, etc. Fri, 30 May 2003 07:14:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? Safari is not 100% open source. Only its HTML engine is. So if you compare directly HTML engines, Mozilla's is more powerful. Therefore, Mozilla should be in the poll, not Safari, and Mozilla it is.

As for Konqueror's entry in the poll, it is from the file manager point of view, not just for the browsing part. Fri, 30 May 2003 07:16:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? I'll write the pols :p Just tell me when yo want one Fri, 30 May 2003 07:17:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? Taras:

I didnt apologize cos mysql was crappier/better. I apologized for my choice of words.

I know -- I edited for length. My editing left to be desired, as I discovered immediately after hitting "submit" And lots of websites use flat files instead of MySQL. They call them HTML files

I'm a PG fan myself, but just because I design/implement apps more than websites.

Spark

I know it's a spreadsheet app. I just never used a spreadsheet.

Aha! Well, a spreadsheet basically allows you to perform mathematical operations on groups of numbers. It's somewhere between a pocket calculator and a database in structure[1].

For example, let's say you have 5 employees (Alpha, Beta, Gamma, Gertrude and Gertrudette) with salaries of 4, 5, 7, 12 and 16 chickens per fortnight respectively. Suddenly, you want to double their salaries.

With a calculator, you'd go:

Multiply 4 by 2, write down new salary for Alpha.
Multiply 5 by 2, write down new salary for Beta.
Multiply 7 by 2, write down new salary for Gamma.
Multiply 12 by 2, write down new salary for Gertrude.
Multiply 16 by 2, write down new salary for Gertrudette.

With a spreadsheet, you'd have the employee names listed in one column, and in the next column their salaries. To double their salaries:

Select "Base Salaries" column, and multiply by 2.

More complex operations are possible, obviously.

---------
[1] Gross oversimplification Fri, 30 May 2003 07:21:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? It's weird no one mentioned mplayer in this thread, which is by far the best media player ever!!. And it's by far better thant Windows Media Player, and Real One. It plays EVERYTHING, asf, avi, mpg, mov, rm, and thousands of other weird formats.., it play broken files, incomplete files, it's amazing!! It supports every subtitle format, plays dvds, vcds, music cds, even the video from your tv tuner card!!

And even better, it doesn't have all that crap around it (banners and stupid menus) that windows media player and real one have. It's fast, (much faster than wmp and real), you can play divxs at full screen in computers (p2 266) where win98 with wmp can't.

It's definitely my chosen app!! Fri, 30 May 2003 07:32:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? Mozilla is way better intenet browser than IE.

Konqueror as a file manager is *very* good too (much better than windows explorer) , but as internet browser it is not as good as mozilla

Also xmms and k3b are very good, maybe even better than their closed source equivalents. (and that will be winamp(2.x ?) and Easy CD creator)

Openoffice is very good, but in my opinion, it lacks some features: for example: last time i tried to create graph in OO Calc, but could not get in the way I wanted it to be (Actually, i hate to say this :-( ,but it's not as good as graph creation in excel. (And graph creation in Excel is not good)) . I REALLY hope that this will improve in future versions. Fri, 30 May 2003 07:32:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? mPlayer plays everything but it is a pain to run, it just doesn't feel right, and then there is always Xine and VLC. But no matter what, they always missing something. XINE has a _terrible_ interface, mplayer doesn't behave as you expect when you resize its window, while VLC is far from revolutionary regarding speeds and has a dreaded pref panel... They all cover the other's problems, but there is not a single player that does most things right.
Closed source alternatives are better than these three, and that includes WMP, therefore I didn't include any of the media players in the poll. Fri, 30 May 2003 07:41:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? For a free compiler, it is very standards compliant, and the code it generates is really close to many commercial compilers out there.

Heck, it comes within 10% of the Intel C++ compiler on the Opteron. Kudos to the GCC team. Fri, 30 May 2003 07:41:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? At least as important as Apache, though maybe not as high-profile. Fri, 30 May 2003 07:43:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? First: why does Konqueror appear while Nautilus does not? In some aspects Nautilus is better than Konqueror in file management.
There would be multiple applications I would vote for:
- Konqueror the FM for it's nice integration with the internet, eg. ftp, sftp, fish and more;
- Konqueror the Browser, as it feels more integrated into KDE than Mozilla into any other desktop, and it renders almost all sites correctly, just like Mozilla;
- KDevelop, I do not develop much but it seems great with a class browser and all kinds of online documentation, however, an integrated, really integrated form designer like Glade would be nice;
- The GIMP, I think it is as good as Paint Shop Pro, which is not Photoshop but still costs $100 if not more;
- Midnight Commander, in main feautures it is as good as NC but it can also do FTP and Fish;
- Tcsh and Bash, with history and command-line editing. I missed this using (the commercial) Solaris-x86. Fri, 30 May 2003 07:47:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? >why does Konqueror appear while Nautilus does not?

Because of this:
http://www.osnews.com/story.php?news_id=3611

>There would be multiple applications I would vote for:
>- Konqueror the FM
>- Konqueror the Browser,

Wake up, this is why I called that option as "Konqueror suite" and not just "Konqueror".

>KDevelop

read previous comment about it. Fri, 30 May 2003 07:49:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? eUgEnIa, "equivelant" is spelled equivalent !
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=equivalent&db=%2A

vErY dIsSaPoInTiNg! Fri, 30 May 2003 07:51:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? Give me a break. I don't care. Fri, 30 May 2003 07:52:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? I really find it hard to believe that not one person has metioned jedit, so I will.

www.jedit.org Fri, 30 May 2003 08:13:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? As for Konqueror's entry in the poll, it is from the file manager point of view, not just for the browsing part.
Wake up, this is why I called that option as "Konqueror suite" and not just "Konqueror".
That made me confused a bit, that first comment made me think that you meant only the File Manager, but that was not true. Maybe you are also right about Eclipse, but looking through the SuSE Install Application menu I only see KDevelop and Anjuta.
About the file manager, you are also completely right, I even voted in that poll. Not for Konqueror, though.
With GCC, I wanted to make a LFS system, so I tried to compile gcc statically. So I downloaded the source, configured it according to the LFS book and while make bootstrapping it, a segmentation fault occurs, always on the same place, no matter if I use Debian or SuSE, gcc 2.95, 3.2 or 3.3. And as either the compiler is faulty or I compile it the wrong way, I do not vote for it. I rather don't vote for C entirely, as Pascal compiles much much faster. Fri, 30 May 2003 08:28:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? I contemplated to vote for Apache, but then I reread the comments, and it stated that I should vote for something that has surpassed (or is equal) to its proprietary competitors. Well, Apache doesn't have to surpass anything, it's the defacto reference point for others to surpass instead. Considering the other choices I voted for Evolution. Mozilla would be equal as good though, but that one already got loads of votes :-) Fri, 30 May 2003 08:33:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? I have to admit that the interface for mplayer (gmplayer) is pretty awful. However, I've recently discovered kmplayer. Simple, clean, and integrated into my kde desktop, with all the lovely goodness of mplayer powering it.

Yet another application I can scratch off the list of needing to boot my windows box for. Down to games and paintshop pro now

For the record, I voted for Apache. The one OSS app that blows the competition completely away. Mozilla Firebird does to, but it's certainly not such a step change from opera, the best of breed closed source browser, as apache is from IIS. Fri, 30 May 2003 08:47:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? mozilla is great. Fri, 30 May 2003 08:49:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? Because it's a really great Java IDE, the one I like most on Win and Lin. www.eclipse.org ! Fri, 30 May 2003 09:08:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? I voted Oo. Only Office like app that is completly translated to Serbian (and many other languages).
My dad has never used PC before and he doesn't speak English, but in 15 minutes he was able to use Oo.
That what makes OpenSource apps good. Here we're still waiting for localized version of MS apps. Fri, 30 May 2003 09:23:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? I think a more fair comparison would be between Mozilla and Opera, considering IE has fallen far behind from being feature-comparable with either of these browsers. Fri, 30 May 2003 09:59:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? All you people saying that Opera is much better than Mozilla (with which I agree), you forget one thing: Opera is closed source. Thus, it cannot be stated that it has surpassed its closed source competitors, it is actually one of them...

And yes, IE doesn't have quite as many features as Opera or Mozilla, but I am not sure that is negative... Personally, I like the browser because it isn't trying to be more than it is... It's simple and fast, that's what I want (and that's why my current browser is Konqueror, since I don't really like Microsoft Windows much ;-).

I voted for PostgreSQL/MySQL, because I really like MySQL - mostly because of simplicity and speed. I never tried PostgreSQL, so I can't comment on the differences between them. However, I'm sure it's great too... ;-)

- Simon Fri, 30 May 2003 10:15:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? The comparison was between Mozilla/IE, OSS/CSS respectively -- I'm suggesting Mozilla/Opera: OSS/CSS respectively. Fri, 30 May 2003 10:25:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? Sorry, but Apache has ALREADY surpassed every other webserver out there... Fri, 30 May 2003 10:50:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? two truly crucial apps that i couldnt live without: LaTeX and mutt. nothing closed or open comes close.

there are some great things in OSS which arent apps, though: the linux & *bsd kernels, for example. (some might say gcc, apache, X, etc.. arent apps either)

one commercial app that blows every OSS contender out of the water is Mathematica. someone with skills please write an OSS equivalent! Fri, 30 May 2003 11:23:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? amen, mplayer has to be one of the best gifts of the OSS world. the encoder that comes along with it, mencoder, is another excellent software.

in the same vein, another notable OSS project is LAME. Fri, 30 May 2003 11:30:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? The point is to single out this open source application that has exceeded and surpassed overall (more than the other OSS apps) its equivelant high-profile closed source application, and vote for it.

To be honest I don't think there is an equivelant high-profile closed source application to apache...

But I voted for it anyway Fri, 30 May 2003 11:33:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? I disagree. Mplayer is by far the best media player i have come across. If for nothing else its unbelivably fast seek times. i guess its not good for people who don't like the console, but other than that small flaw its perfect

Just mplayer and it works, arrow keys skip nicely, plays pretty much any file you can throw at it.

xine is almost as good, but its ugly gui lets it down.

I don't think its valid to say mplayer is worse overall than other media because it uses the older console paradigm instead of a gui.

I hate the media players where the gui gets in the way, on windows which i hardly ever seem to run these days i use sasami2k for its clean lack of an interface. Fri, 30 May 2003 11:43:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? All those people who are complaining about mozilla's bloat REALLY should try firebird 0.6. It's everything mozilla ever wanted to be. My vote goes to mozilla, but only for firebird. Fri, 30 May 2003 11:54:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? It has certainly helped me out with wireless networks. I cannot think of a commerical tool I'd rather use, even if cost weren't an issue. Fri, 30 May 2003 11:59:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? I know... :-) Fri, 30 May 2003 12:35:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? I voted for Eclipse because it is the only one where I have seriously considered the closed-source alternatives together with it, and still come out believing it to be better. Long live Eclipse! Fri, 30 May 2003 12:57:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? Come on guys....Some of you don't seem to understand the pole. Give me a COMMERCIAL competitor for Apache? C'mon...give me a webserver you HAVE TO PAY FOR. (IIS doesn't count here).

And I concur on the first gcc comment...commercial compilers have something else that justifies their existence.

According to the poll, Mozilla is winning. WTC? Name a commercial alternative to Mozilla. I dare ya. Say "Opera" and ur a loser.

I think out of ALL of those choices, the only ones that should prolly even really be considered are OpenOffice, Gimp, and Evolution.

That's my 2 cents. which is about all it's worth. Fri, 30 May 2003 13:07:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? So maybe i made the mistake of assuming "closed source" = "commercial app." It doesn't. So.....i guess you guys...are kinda rights......sos.....ignore mes.

-Strong Bad Fri, 30 May 2003 13:12:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? I feel that gaim .6x has surpassed aim. It has file transfers and everything now, and it looks so much better. Showing the buddy icon to the right is a nice touch. It's almost ichatesque. In fact I just switched to gaim for when I boot windows. So even now when I use windows I'm using mostly OSS software. I also think mozilla is much better than ie or anything else, but I could only pick one.

OH, and the other day I decided I really don't like konquerer, I mean it's just not complete. If you resize the window to you're personal preference (I always like my browser windows tall and thin so I can always see my desktop and gaim, but see as much of the page as possible) it doesn't remember the resize if you close it and open it again. Konquerer is just really klunky, why do we need an up arrow button in a browser? The font sizes are really messed up too, either they're way to small or way too big. Maybe safari will take the konq code and do something great with it, I'm waiting till the final, all of the previous releases have hard crashed on me at the site of a page it didn't like. Well that's it, gaim and mozilla rock. Fri, 30 May 2003 13:32:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? OK, give Eugenia a break, the poll topic was a tough one to work out (I think it took courage to post it) however it, along with the 100 posts or so, makes a point: Linux software in most areas is still chasing.

Anyone can stay away from Windows without effort in web-related use (personal comment: Evolution is better than Outlook and an excellent package overall). Let's not mention browsers, they are very good!

Alas, I am an intensive OFFICE app user. I'm SO surprised people voting OO.o! Rough edges!!!! To switch to Linux definitely, without a W partition, I (and the poeple in Munich) need packages that cover the essentials without bugs and, sorry, no Linux office app is up to scratch. I still use OO for religious reasons and still struggle to get simple things done.... unless you consider copying and pasting from Galeon into OO Writer and similar silly things "complex", but they simply don't work.

I'd personally be happier to discuss ways to get ahead in weaker areas of open source software, rather than what this or that package is worth.

"Instead of whinging contribute" I hear you say. Contributing to OO from the user's point of view looks dauting (complicated, crowded) but it's probably worth it. Fri, 30 May 2003 13:33:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? John, people understand the poll just fine. Read it again--the word 'commercial' doesn't appear in the poll. It is asking for the best OSS application which measures up to the best of the 'closed source' world. Since the source code for IIS, Opera and IE are not publicly available, therefore ... they are closed source!

But besides that ...

Commercial Competitor to Apache? - IIS
Commercial Competitor to Mozilla - Opera and IE

As for the ones bundles with Windows (IIS and IE), don't think for one second that every time you buy a Microsoft OS you aren't paying for those. Microsoft does not spend all that development time and money not to get a return on them. The only reason IE was given away (at first) was to kill off Netscape. Fri, 30 May 2003 13:33:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? I voted "None". But, not because I think OSS is no good or anything like that. As someone said above, it is still "chasing". I use OSS and love it, but the way it is produced takes time and modification. Some are pretty close and just about all are getting closer, which is great. If the poll had a slightly different intent, I would have voted for Mozilla - look at the tremendous influence it has had on OSS! Its offspring is truly amazing and that type of thing bodes well for OSS.

Great poll, Eugenia! Fri, 30 May 2003 13:49:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? yeh yeh, Jim. I concur. see my post #2.

I can't justify IIS or IE as commercial, though. IE is free, and IIS comes with win2k server. I dunno...for some reason, I don't consider them. I *DO* love Apache and Moz both, but when I think of commercial (which comment #2 indicates I realize the poll was about "closed source"), I think of going down to BestBuy, Staples, OfficeMax, etc and buying a shrinkwrapped box off of the store shelf.

I concur with ageox, most OSS apps *ARE* chasing.
For Those Wondering, I voted for Evolution. While it has bugs, I felt it the most polished of the OSS applications, especially when compared with Outlook. OOo comes in at a close 2nd. Gimp still seems too....unnatural for me. Fri, 30 May 2003 13:50:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? I _love_ Video LAN Client. Plays almost anything I throw at it, and on OS X it just rocks. It plays more videos than Quicktime, plus it has playlisting capability-which I haven't found on any other video player for OS X. And it plays Windows Media files better (most of the time) than Windows Media Player for OS X.

And on OS X, at least, it's the fastest, most responsive player (that I've played with, at least).

Still a few bugs-sometimes it drops sound for a moment or a minute, but the 0.5.2 release is rather nice. Fri, 30 May 2003 14:22:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? The poll is a bit biased, probably most of the readers didn't try GnomeMeeting as a professional VOIP application, with gatekeeper interaction, and such features. Probably most of them didn't even try it at all... So obviously, how could they vote for it if they don't even know what you can really do with it compared to commercial solutions like CU-See-Me, Nortel/Cisco/Polycom products? Fri, 30 May 2003 14:28:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? The answer's obvious: they're not comparing it with any of those products. They're comparing it with NetMeeting, which is what GnomeMeeting is measuring itself against. Fri, 30 May 2003 14:49:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? Has nobody heard of zeus http://www.zeus.com. There is almost certainly little reason to pay for a web server when
Apache does the job but people should be under no ilusions that Apache is the best web server out there. Fri, 30 May 2003 14:58:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? Hmm, this poll was a little biased towards the desktop side, even though most of the really great OSS applications are on the server side. For example, the poll makes no mention of Mono (server-level middle ware), qmail (replacement for exchange), any of the OSS Enterprise Java servers, etc. Anyway, I wanted to throw in my two cents about GCC. There was a time when GCC did generate bad code, which is what you're professors are probably remembering. But on x86, at least, GCC code performs only slightly slower than Intel C++ code on most cases, and on most processors except the P4. Plus, most of these cases where it performs slower are on FP-heavy, type code, or when ICC can auto-vectorize some loop. Besides that, G++ was one of the first compilers to be highly standards complient, and even today, its standards complience and code performs is very competitive with Microsoft's VC++ compiler. GCC is also open and well documented, which is very important for many embedded purposes. Fri, 30 May 2003 15:26:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? I voted last night and its letting me do it again. I just want to view the results and I'm not going to vote.

It was a tough choice since notably GIMP, GCC and OO have huge codebases and of course tremenedous amounts of work. I have to commend all the programmers for being able to make programs that compete against commercial apps. Fri, 30 May 2003 15:30:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? Hey, I had to vote for Apache, simply because it has had the most impact, and because version 2 surpasses any commercial webserver for ability and innovation.

I wish we could vote a second and third choice, though. If so, I would choose Mozilla as second, because it also innovates in ways that the commercial competitors never imagined, and I would choose PostgreSQL. PostgreSQL innovates the least of these 3 (although there are some definite innovations you don't find in commercial systems), but it does handle relational features very well-- at least on a par with any commercial DBMS. Fri, 30 May 2003 15:35:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? The best document production program around. If you include its predecessor Tex, it predates the current closed source vs OSS/GPL controversy, just keeps doing its job. Fri, 30 May 2003 15:45:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? To all you people claiming that Linux is still largely chasing its commercial competitors, I correct you:

Linux is still largely chasing its commercial DESKTOP competitors.

Linux's (and the BSDs') server side is groomed and mature enough that hardly anyone talks about it in a controversial context anymore. Let's be clear on this, shall we?

It's a tougher road to build an effective desktop on a server-intended system, but the rewards will be worth it in time. I for one am eager to see OSS arrive on the desktop, apps and all.

Still not trolling[1],
GG
----------------------
[1] I must be setting some sort of record here. Fri, 30 May 2003 15:49:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? I hope this was not mentioned bevore since I did only read until post #30, but this comment was modded down:
-------------
"eUgEnIa, "equivelant" is spelled equivalent !
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=equivalent&db=%2A

vErY dIsSaPoInTiNg! "
-------------

apart from the useless post, "dIsSaPoInTiNg", is actually spelled "disappointing", but as Eugenia answered: Who cares!


=========
on topic: I voted for Apache, since it had less security issues in the past than IIS. However, I think, no other OSS project surpasses it's equivalent commercial counterpart. The only application would be DC++, since the original DirectConnect client is just crap. Fri, 30 May 2003 15:56:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? Why would people vote for Evolution? It's a direct clone of Outlook! Are there ANY features it has that Outlook doesn't? Fri, 30 May 2003 16:05:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? "Closed source alternatives are better than these three, and that includes WMP"

What the f*** ??

Mplayer is way more powerful than any closed source media player. Period.
Your comment about window resizing is pure BS. It's clearly stated in the README that the gui is experimental, so maybe try it from the command line. Anyway, the resizing depends only of the output plugin you choose, so try another one if you have problems. For example, the sdl output does hardware scaling way faster than media player.

Btw, I'm probably wasting my time since you seem to prefer anything ms since the death of Be inc. Fri, 30 May 2003 16:16:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? I have to agree with Mat. If you want a media player (rather than a jukebox, ripper, swiss-army-knife type thing) MPlayer blows away everything else. It has a straightforward GUI (at least KMplayer does) and has insane compatibility. I have yet to encounter a video that it would not play. Now, if you do need jukebox/ripper type stuff, one of those all-in-one programs might serve you better, but there are better ways to organize your media. As for resizing, who cares? I have come to the conclusion that too many people obsess over this resizing thing. In the real world, how much do you realize resize a media player window? Fri, 30 May 2003 16:51:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? Its evolution baby!!!!
there are a lot of FEATURES included on this great OSS..
i dont wanna tell you all of them right now so go after them if you want =) Fri, 30 May 2003 17:02:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? I would really have liked to see JBoss on that list. Its the apache of J2EE servers but is easier to use than ANY commercial offering.

Strid... Fri, 30 May 2003 17:07:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? ...but osnews.com has decieded not to list netbeans as a choice. I can tell you all that netbeans are working hard to finish their 3.5 edition. Please visit www.netbeans.org for more information. Fri, 30 May 2003 17:28:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? The bit of data that I am more curious about would be how many people thought each application was close to surpassing its closed source competition.

I am a very strong proponent of OSS and Free Software, but was somewhat surprised to find I didn't really think that any of them except gaim actually surpassed the capabilities of the proprietary version.

I would say, however, that each of those pieces of software does act as a suitable replacement for the proprietary equivalent for many users. Fri, 30 May 2003 17:38:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? I realise you probably don't care but here are my thoughts
Some of my reasons are good some are bas some of them are based soley on inexperience.

Gnome meeting
I have never used

OpenOffice.org
It's good but it is just not MS Office. My main issues with it are it's incredibly slow load time and strangly inconsistent cut and poast betweeen it and other apps.

Konqueror
It get's in the way of enlightenment. I tried it, it took over my desktop. lesson learned.

Evolution
I tried it, it ate my mail, I haven't forgiven it. It was really slick though.

Mozilla
My second choice. I use it all the time. I installed the eskimo theme and have 0 usibility issues.

Gimp
I use it for all my graphics work, but please it does not even begin to compare with photoshop. It does not support CMYK, necessary for printing, it renders text funny, and it lacks tuns of features. And this is in comparison to Photopshop 5. I haven't looked at photoshop since then that whole not running on linux thing.

Gaim, Blender
Never used.

Eclipse
Never used, I just split this one out so I could say how muck I like Kate text editor. I really like Kate, it highlight's code, has an intrgrated shell, and is easy to use and understand. Simple products for simple minds.

Gcc
The second best compiler, but Intel's is simply faseter.

Apache
Has no realy competion in the closed source world. Yes there are competors (Zeus, IIS, and others) but no one stands a chance. obviously my first choice.

the databases
The main advatage of mySQl is it is easy to set up. Postgress was dificult the last time it tried. MySQL is however the best Mid-weight database application. It is simpler and cheeper than the big guns (DB2, Oricle) and signifinatly more powerfull than the light weights (Access, and xbase). Accualy I think Mysql is the only mid-weight database. Fri, 30 May 2003 17:43:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? >the poll makes no mention of Mono

Mono is nowhere near the completion level of .NET. Mono still chases .NET. Therefore, no matter how much I do like Mono, it had no place in this poll. Fri, 30 May 2003 17:55:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? This poll is really weird. What exactly is the nearest commercial competitor to these products? Is Photoshop the commercial competitor to The Gimp? I'd argue not, since Gimp costs nothing and Photoshop costs hundreds. People would think you are stupid comparing the $100 Paintshop Pro to $600 Photoshop, or $600 Truespace to $2000 Maya, but for some reason they think nothing of comparing The Gimp to Photoshop. In the real world (unless your only contact with these programs is through KaZaA price is a very important factor. There are a lot of people who use image manipulation programs, but can't afford the $600 for Photoshop. Similarly, there are lots of people who do 3D, but can't afford Maya or XSI. Further, these people don't even need all the power of these programs. Open source can do a lot, but it can't work miracles. The magic of open source is that it has produced programs that are very useful for many people, while remaining Free (in both senses of the word). Who cares if The Gimp can't match Photoshop feature for feature? Photoshop is a high end tool that has been in development since 1988. Gimp is a free tool that has been in development since only 1995 (and in highly active development for much less time than that).

Once a piece of software has the features you need, other aspects become important. To many people, the cost aspect is very important. The many people, the freedom aspect is very important. You have to look at the software as a whole. Fri, 30 May 2003 18:15:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? Just installed Evloution 1.4 RC1 and this baby has got it going on. And its much faster than 1.2 here. And much better looking. OSS at (nearly) its best. Gunumeric is still the one for me. Fri, 30 May 2003 18:31:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? Another one that just came to my mind is XChat. I always found its interface horrible and confusing (beeing an IRC newbie) but the latest Gtk2 version is awesome. Easy to understand and works a lot better than mIRC for me. There might be better proprietary IRC clients but mIRC is the "de factor standard".

XChat is, at least on the interface side, not much more than a clone of AmIRC, which is widely regarded as the best IRC client, bar none. It really makes mIRC seem like 1992 issue software. Fri, 30 May 2003 18:42:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? Good Grief said: "Didn't we have the GIMP vs PP discussion a few articles ago?"

Can you hand me a link? Would love to read the debate. Fri, 30 May 2003 18:50:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? Have to admit, out of the choices, and comparing like with like, had to be evolution or apache.

I chose evolution because I have the competitors, and evolution is far ahead.

reasons

does not eat email, and if something goes wrong, you dont have to wrestle with proprietry file formats

mail capacity - just handles whatever you throw at it, with slight speed decreases

vfolders

ease of filtering

As regards mozilla I definitely think it is superior to ie, but not by as much Fri, 30 May 2003 18:57:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? I checked out Content Management Systems and I would have to say that Typo3 blows every one of them out of the water.

This project also has the best documentation of any program I have ever seen, bar none.

You have to check this out if you are going to be maintaining content in a web environement.

http://typo3.com


smeat! Fri, 30 May 2003 19:48:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? Good Grief said: "Didn't we have the GIMP vs PP discussion a few articles ago?"

Can you hand me a link? Would love to read the debate.

Damn, I can't find it

It was a comparison article, possibly concerning Apple, and someone brought up the GIMP-PS comparison. A few others chimed in about Cinepaint/FilmGIMP (which one poster called "Movie Gimp" or "MovieGIMP", IIRC). As tangents go, it was actually fairly interesting.

Does anyone remember the link in question? Or know if it's possible to search the comments for a string or poster? I tried searching for "Gimp" but it only brought back articles featuring the word "Gimp", not the comments.

Forgetful,
GG Fri, 30 May 2003 21:53:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? CMYK is not necessary for "printing", whoever said this is misinformed. It's necessary for prepress work, which only 0.000001% of the people who use image manipulation software need or use.

The Gimp is a quality piece of work. 1.4.x will kick major ass. It easily blows away Paint Shop Pro, and for the majority of people gives Photoshop a run for its money. Of course, people like to think they use the best, very few will say "well actually I don't need those features so I'll use the gimp" when it's easier to get Photoshop off a mate or Kazaa. Fri, 30 May 2003 22:30:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? So where's PHP, that seems like a given to me Fri, 30 May 2003 22:33:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? ...before reading the comments. Like Eugenia said, it is not about what is your favorite, but what can be successful in the battle for hearts, minds, and lucre. If I had realized that, I would not have voted, because I don't care about that very much. Sorry. Fri, 30 May 2003 22:38:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? Correct. Also, it's a bit unreasonable to expect GIMP to support CMYK because IIRC the CMYK handling technique is patented. Fri, 30 May 2003 23:15:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? I like OpenOffice.org, Evolution, Mozilla but...
GAIM is a little piece of great software - runs also in Windows, is compatible with all (or almost all) IMs. And you can theme the smileys :-) Fri, 30 May 2003 23:50:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? I was tempted to pick gcc, but as several posters noted:
it does NOT produce as well optimized code as some of its (limited number) of commercial competitors.

However there IS a reason for this, if you look at the well documented goals of gcc, the primary goal is portability across various CPU architectures NOT optimization for a particular CPU architecture.

All of this being said it is really a good enough compiler for MOST people's needs and there HAS been some optimization work done recently at least for x86 and ppc, but it still is NOT up to the level of say Metrowerk's compilers, or the compiler that MS uses, I forget who they subcontracted/purchased it from at the moment.

*SQL: MySQL still isn't even up to PosgreSQL in features, and neither are close enough in esoteric features of commercial SQLs, but still good enough for many projects that don't really need all the extra garbage.

GIMP: I actually voted for GIMP, but I do KNOW that there are many graphic "professionals" who still prefer Photoshop as they find GIMP lacking. Again, more than good enough for most people though.

OpenOffice: chasing MS Office, as they have been for years. 'Nuff said.

Apache: Probably should have voted for this, but I figured that it would be a given for a landslide of votes already.

The rest: either trying their level best to copy MS apps(God knows why...) or just not quite there yet. Sat, 31 May 2003 15:49:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? just bunch of completely unrelated oss programs. could be more useful if separated into different categories. where is jboss by the way? --: ) Sat, 31 May 2003 16:34:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? MySQL isn't really a PostgreSQL competitor. MySQL is meant for lighter purposes, where absolute speed and ease of management is more important than features. Sun, 01 Jun 2003 01:28:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments