OSNews:

Maybe they just don't care

donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) — Wed, 23 Jan 2002 19:53:00 GMT

I'm guessing Palm just doesn't care - they figure the user base for BeOS is small enough and the cost of getting a lawyer to draft an official response isn't worth it. If they weren't willing to spend anything on the BeUnited deal they probably won't spend anything to get legal docs requesting the illegal version get pulled.

code

donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) — Wed, 23 Jan 2002 20:02:00 GMT

Palm might not care or they might not care to let anyone know that they care. Your choice. Who knows. Still, it is hard to believe that anything good can come out of leaked code. Personally, i think its most accurate to say that palm's legal people have not acted YET. They probably will.

Trial Balloon or Parting Gift

donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) — Wed, 23 Jan 2002 20:04:00 GMT

It could be a trial ballon to gauge the interest in an updated BeOS, or it could be a parting gift.

REVOLUTION NOW

donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) — Wed, 23 Jan 2002 20:05:00 GMT

Grab it, spread it. Get the damn source and get to work. I have no sympathy for Palm or anyone else involved. Near as I can tell, someone owes the BeOS community.

Sandwich Boy

donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) — Wed, 23 Jan 2002 20:14:00 GMT

It's not a victimless crime. Do you think anyone would buy YellowTab's BeOS 5.03+ distribution now that they can download this blatantly illegal BeOS 5.1 for free?

This isn't the source code!!!

donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) — Wed, 23 Jan 2002 20:20:00 GMT

There's no source code in the 5.1d0 update that I've seen, ryan and Sandwich Boy. This will only update previous BeOS updates to 5.1d0 as far as I know. The source for BeOS was supposedly leaked some time ago but I don't think anything came from that. What I remember is that someone said without the build process you'd have a bear of a time getting it to build anyway (I don't remember the exact situation with that, though).

I'd be curious to see how many people, even though they might be running 5.1d0 would still buy YellowTab's product. I know I'd buy it anyway. My personal opinion of the wonderful BeOS community is that most others would as well. We're suckers that way!

BeInspired

donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) — Wed, 23 Jan 2002 20:22:00 GMT

This is NOT a "leaked link", this is a great Dano's guide:

- Application compatibility
- Installation guide
- Tips and tricks

From the BeInspired website:
"This page serves to give advice and tips on using this development version of BeOS - it should be noted that this release is regarded as being both unstable (IE:- It is Beta software) and legally dubious."

http://www.markround.com/beos/unofficial.html

For me, rightnow Palm=Chaos. They are so busy splitting the co., fixing PalmOS , negotiating the Xerox affair, facing IT loneliness... and trashing the best desktop Os, what are they to do about some leaked code? They are already leaking their venture business without any help.

Register reporter, Andrew Orlowski, puts it this way:

"More pressingly, we suggest, is management. Take a moment to run through Palm Inc's current executive team, here. Instead of the usual five or eight names, there are 21 executives trying to squeeze into the team photo. With many accomplished track records behind them, we don't doubt. But for example, what can a Chief Marketing Officer, a Chief Strategy Officer and a Chief Competitive Officer (the ludicrous Michael Mace, who turns up at rival developer conferences under an assumed name, and then denies that he's Michael Mace)* do that one can't person can't? Except argue a lot, that is."
http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/4/23773.html

If nothing changes, next year, maybe, we'll have Nagel for comments about Dano.

R5.1d0 vs. BeOS_NG

donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) — Wed, 23 Jan 2002 20:37:00 GMT

[It's not a victimless crime. Do you think anyone would buy YellowTab's BeOS 5.03+ distribution now that they can download this blatantly illegal BeOS
5.1 for free?]
I don't think that R5.1d0 is dangerous for NG because NG is "normal" R5.0.3 with:

*a new Installer (which looks pretty impressive, indeed),
*BeIA-dev-Kit (I don't know how they can publish that when Gobe was not allowed to! And they also "relabeled it to Wagner2 *Wagner was the dev name for BeIA*),
*lot's of BeBits-stuff
*the old partition tool marked as "brand new"
*announced as "developed with OpenBeOS-Team" which not true....AFAIK

That what BeOS_NG looks to me can harm BeOS much more than R5.1d0. R5.1d0 is new technology, NG is "old" in new boxes!

who can spread the sources? I don't know anyone who has them!

LoCal

appendix

donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) — Wed, 23 Jan 2002 20:38:00 GMT

Of course, I know sources have been leaked, but I don't think that a lot of ppl downloaded them.

LoCal

But that's not all, folks!

donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) — Wed, 23 Jan 2002 20:44:00 GMT

Where are:

o Wagner?
o the PDF Viewer?
o the JavaScript e-mail client?
o Java ME?
o the updated BeBook?
o the Flash player?
o Real Player?
o the DVD player?

donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) — Wed, 23 Jan 2002 20:47:00 GMT

If there was indeed a source leak, I don't think anyone had time to download it all before BeShare shutdown, would have been a huge download.

Would you please stop doubting if there has been a source leak?

donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) — Wed, 23 Jan 2002 20:55:00 GMT

THERE HAS BEEN a source leak. A huge one. Period. Now lets argue about it.

QNX, next best thing

donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) — Wed, 23 Jan 2002 21:03:00 GMT

Has anyone tried using QNX before or after using BeOS? I started using BeOS about 6 months ago and recently stopped. Then just yesterday I installed QNX RTP 6.1 thanks the review on OSnews. I saw a lot of things in QNX that I loved in BeOS. The interface is absolutely beautiful and responsive. Unlike Linux, I was able to set the speed of my mouse cursor not just the acceleration speed.

QNX feels a lot like BeOS, to me at least. Except for the startup and shutdown which is a longer wait than BeOS. Networking is a bit more mature in QNX than BeOS, but still no decent hardware 3D which is what I'm really looking for.

If you're a BeOS fan, and haven't tried QNX yet, I recommend you do. It's familiar grounds, and easier to use than Linux.

P.S.
I'm sorry for going off topic. After losing BeOS, I've been looking for a new home.

Claude

donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) — Wed, 23 Jan 2002 21:05:00 GMT

Good missing apps list. I would add:

o Opera5?

[more apps please]

Source leaks???

donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) — Wed, 23 Jan 2002 21:09:00 GMT

I know some people have been debating whether or not that there has been a source leak, but considering the fact that no one has ever heard even a rumor as to where to download the source and since it's not included with the leaked binaries it is hard to prove the supposed source leak. One theory I have is that the leaked binaries were based off the source leak and that the lack of the source code in the download was done on purpose because it would destroy OpenBeOS or most any future clones of BeOS. One problem I have with the theory that there has been a source leak is that since there were so few engineers working at Be inc. by the time that this was made that there would be very few people to point fingers at. In a organization like Microsoft there are many people to screw up, but in a smaller operation one almost has to purposely release it with so few holes that it could fall through.

Forget it Thanh Ly

donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) — Wed, 23 Jan 2002 21:14:00 GMT

I've also tried QNX-RTOS6.0 and 6.1 (not 6.2 yet). Somehow promising, nice repository (like an optimized valet), nice features, but not HOME, not that responsive at all (read the qnx news thread), not correctly antialiased, not that fast, not that pretty, not ...

As an old begrovier says "I find your lack of faith most distressing".

Source leak? Whats the big deal...

donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) — Wed, 23 Jan 2002 21:26:00 GMT

Like BeOs users know how to use a compiler anyway....

missing apps

donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) — Wed, 23 Jan 2002 21:29:00 GMT

Simcity 3000
Photoshop 4
Gobe Productive 3 (?)

Re: But that's not all, folks! & Claude

donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) — Wed, 23 Jan 2002 21:35:00 GMT

Claude wrote:
"Where are:

o Wagner? "
I don't know if this IS the BeIA development kit/enviroment/something or if it's a mutilated (limited) opera 4 (which would be found in said kit.

"o the PDF Viewer? "
bebits.com it's called bepdf

"o the JavaScript e-mail client? "
I don't know what you mean?? Is there any such thing for any other OS?? Maybe you meant browser with javascript??? Opera 3.62 has javascript support and so does bezilla (which has had some speed improvements or so I've read)

"o Java ME? "
Java Millenium Edition?? or what?? I don't know the status of java support, best guess would be beunited.org (look for the projects page)

"o the updated BeBook? "
You mean the one with the undocumented APIs?? best guess would be to wait for the result of
http://news.begroovy.com/article/272
Or look at the comments in the annotated bebook
http://bang.dhs.org/be/bebook/

"o the Flash player? "
bebits.com search with keyword flash

"o Real Player? "
Buy beos R5 pro (if you don't, any other version you'll get will be illegal (at the moment anyway))

"o the DVD player? "
videolan can play DVDs (bebits.com keyword videolan)

Marques wrote:
"o Opera5? "
Give Opera a lot of money (and then some more money) and they'll port it to beos for you. BTW: if you're going to do that, instead ask for a Opera 6 port.
Other unreallistic options are:
-hack opera 3.62 to the level of version 5 by using hex editors and such
-hack mutilated opera 4 to the level of version 5 by using hex editors and such
-try to reverse engineer a opera 5, port it to beos and compile

A more realistic one is to use/support/code for bezilla or netoptimist, someone (who is also on the OBOS team I think) started a KHTML or ABrowse port I think, and plans to continue it, but would probably accept any help you can give.

about Opera5

donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) — Wed, 23 Jan 2002 21:50:00 GMT

I suggested the 5 version because of the rumors saying that it was finished and halted:
http://the.belette.free.fr/news.htm

Yes, I know it's a fun/humour website, but after all these years it wouldn't surprise anyone.

I see you a bit obssesionated about hacking, take it easy V, no need to axe anything.

Of course, a bugzilla port without the 200 bugs would be fine too. Now that AOL is taking over, lol, future's bright for an all OBOS Netscape port. I'm not sure if you are referring to the Atheos KHTML port...great, great, but give me a BeOS/OBOS Opera browser.

_V_ alien? They are among us.
(cool nick, don't take it seriously)

Quem se preocupa?

donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) — Wed, 23 Jan 2002 22:03:00 GMT

Ainda só justaposições e conversa. Quem dá um cague sobre BeOS? Está morto
Nós precisamos nos mudar. Se renda agora e compre a Microsoft. Você sabe que faz sentido.

What's the damn problem?

donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) — Wed, 23 Jan 2002 22:04:00 GMT

Does anyone of you noticed the real problem?

Why are pleople discussing a possible affect of v5.1 on NG?

That's nonsense!

The file is still online!
That means that is has been downloaded just a few times otherwise the hoster has been alerted already. It's a 60 Meg's file and only a french (free) community hoster ...

Just think of just 500 downloads ... 60 Meg's each ...
= 30 Gigs transfer

So please calm. No worries.
Please do not exaggerate this.
Please continue working on NG.
Release NG.

I will install v5.1 anyway ...

Manha tao bonita manha...

donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) — Wed, 23 Jan 2002 22:09:00 GMT

English please.

donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) — Wed, 23 Jan 2002 22:16:00 GMT

Getting it in 73 kb/s from [...]

it'll be nice to try it out

(sorry eugenia, but I don't see how this would hurt BeOS. imo the community deserves it)

--------

EDITED OUT BY FORUM MODERATOR

Re: ealm

donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) — Wed, 23 Jan 2002 22:24:00 GMT

Ealm, I have edited out your link. I SAID: NO FUCKING LINKS on OSNews.

I do not care if this will hurt/help BeOS or not. But I DO care if this will hurt *OSNews and/or myself*. Got it? Power ON your head and think a bit.

Try another one like that and you will be IP banned from OSNews and unable to post comments again.

donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) — Wed, 23 Jan 2002 22:25:00 GMT

Where are the sources?

Re: Re: ealm

donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) — Wed, 23 Jan 2002 22:29:00 GMT

Sorry Eugeina... but I didn't post a "direct download" link...

ealm...

donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) — Wed, 23 Jan 2002 22:32:00 GMT

you know what she meant.

donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) — Wed, 23 Jan 2002 22:33:00 GMT

ok Kevin... I regret it (although I got it myself from another link provided in one of the other posts on this thread, which - as mine - wasn't a direct download URL)

sad

donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) — Wed, 23 Jan 2002 22:34:00 GMT

whether or not you believe it, this will hurt the BeOS community, in many ways. I'm getting sick of all this talk to entitlement... that you're entitled to have Palm support BeOS, or that you're entitled to use this illegal download.

you can look but you better not touch boy

donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) — Wed, 23 Jan 2002 22:45:00 GMT

Nonsense.

And I touched.
The code is out, the code is in, help yourself.

donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) — Wed, 23 Jan 2002 22:46:00 GMT

oh! some one from nvida! cool!

oh, well

donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) — Wed, 23 Jan 2002 22:51:00 GMT

I've NEVER used illeagle software. Except maybe the leaked Radeon Driver for BeoS?
But if I could get a copy of this updated BeOS, I'd jump on it.

I don't think Palm owes *me* anything. But I don't care. Palm can either work with the community or against them, and they've made their choice perfectly clear. Unfortunately/fortunately, their are people in the world that will try to their product, regardless of if they release it or not. So, keeping it simple you have two types of BeOS users: those who will not use a leaked BeOS and those who will. Conscience aside, what advantage is it NOT to use it?

Palm owes us

donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) — Wed, 23 Jan 2002 23:01:00 GMT

I've made quite an inversion buying BeOS software in the last two years, Palm ethically owes me not to trash the last update made. So Palm doesn't want to release it and someone leakes it, ok I'll have it with my conscience clear.

They do owe it to me, not freely, with a price, but they owe it.

dirty for dirty

For why English?

donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) — Wed, 23 Jan 2002 23:02:00 GMT

I think this site for evryone, no?

English why For?

donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) — Wed, 23 Jan 2002 23:35:00 GMT

no, evryone for site this think I?

HUH!

Re: For why English?

donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) — Wed, 23 Jan 2002 23:39:00 GMT

You said, "I think this site for evryone, no?"

Yes, it is, but to facilitate communication, which is what a bulletin board system is for, then everyone should talk/write in the same language and English is a COMMON language.

It is the same reason that programming languages are ALL in English style text ( US ASCII ).

So, don't get your panties in a bunch. No one is picking on you...

donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) — Wed, 23 Jan 2002 23:46:00 GMT

i like mr gassee. he's quite a cheeky chap. quite funny as well. i like the french because they have this great tradition of being thinkers, and i think this reflects in the erudite outbursts of mr gassee. i like to think that for all the force that is put upon the beos community, all the negative energy by such things as focus shifts and bootloader principles, that an equal resistance to the force will happen much as another cheeky french bald thinker argued. it's probably inevitable that the "community" as it is, will latch upon this illegal release as a natural reaction to the amount of pressure that has been thrust upon them. but as another famous french man said, in an american film, "nothing lasts forever," maybe thre is a change a foot. these french people sure have the world stiched up. i have to admire the valour and insight they bring the world.
in short, it's only natural that someone leaked this. as it's only natural that we seek alternatives to the junk that surrounds us. ummm, i need more gin.

donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) — Wed, 23 Jan 2002 23:51:00 GMT

Palm owes you nothing. It's Be Inc. and its distributors that are responsible of providing you with continued patches --- that's the reason why Palm Inc. didn't buy Be Inc. the whole company. Go and yell at Be Inc. and Gobe, but not Palm.

what would really be great!!

donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) — Wed, 23 Jan 2002 23:59:00 GMT

What would really be great is to port (completly) all of the objective librairies to beos, which would enable it to run run software made for mac os X with little hassle!

donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) — Thu, 24 Jan 2002 00:05:00 GMT

>>Palm owes you nothing. It's Be Inc. and its distributors that are responsible of providing you with continued patches --- that's the reason why Palm
Inc. didn't buy Be Inc. the whole company. Go and yell at Be Inc. and Gobe, but not Palm.

Palm owes it

donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) — Thu, 24 Jan 2002 00:16:00 GMT

Be Inc. [NASDAQ:BEOS], has sold all its assets to a unit of Palm Inc. [NASDAQ:PALM]. Thi agreement with Palm marks the last act for Be's board before the company dissolves.

"At the special meeting of stockholders, held on November 12, 2001, Be's stockholders approved the sale of substantially all of its intellectual property and other technology assets to Palm, Inc."

Palm Inc. owns the intellectual property of the BeOSR6 update and all of BeOs software. Palm owns it, rights and obligations. Its $11 million gets technology and a staff of around 57 engineers, gets all the IP. No one but Palm can release that update, Palm owes it.

I know Palm wants to do as it has never heard of the OS bought for a hundreds less than Apple offered way back...I don't give a damn, if you don't want it, don't buy it, else we leak it.

Damn you Palm

donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) — Thu, 24 Jan 2002 00:18:00 GMT

Arg. Almost over Be, but now this...

donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) — Thu, 24 Jan 2002 00:29:00 GMT

Yes, Palm owns the IP and no one can release that update WITHOUT Palm's approval. That doesn't mean no one but Palm can release that update.

Either Be Inc. or Gobe can pay Palm some money for their continued access to the source code for patching purposes.

And don't give me that Palm already rejected BeUnited's and YellowTab's proposals --- those aren't proposals at all --- those are "no money down and give us the source code right away proposal" with business models as real as the "get paid $10K a month for stuffing envolopes" junk mail.

donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) — Thu, 24 Jan 2002 00:51:00 GMT

mr expensive... you wouldn't happen to be french, would you?

donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) — Thu, 24 Jan 2002 00:54:00 GMT

Palm can go suck a dick bastards hella jipped us. Do you honestly think that if MS needs Palms Be source they cant get it? Stupid people I swear little companies need open source communities and we have one of the most lively. Yet they shunned us so I dont give a crap for their BS about no patches. Its either for or against teh open source community and they are against.
Nik
PS I hold no conscience when it comes with dealing with the greedy.

donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) — Thu, 24 Jan 2002 00:55:00 GMT

I quite like BeOS r5.1 (but the lack of slidy tabs... nooo!!!)
It does have that "unfinshed edge", but hey, tis fun to play with (aledgedly

Has anyone used the XML kit yet? I've been looking for a good, easy to understand (and not C based) XML lib.

Mlk

donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) — Thu, 24 Jan 2002 01:04:00 GMT

Palm didn't "jip" you.

Palm bought the BeOS/BeIA IP for 11 million dollars and left Be Inc. with 7.2 million dollars of winding up liabilities (which INCLUDES the continued support of BeOS customers). On the other hand, Palm could have bought the whole Be Inc. company for 3.8 million dollars and absorb the 7.2 million dollars of liabilities (which INCLUDES the continued support of BeOS customers).

So actually, it is Be Inc. that "jipped" you by taking the extra 7.2 million dollars and not give you continued support.

i'm not french

donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) — Thu, 24 Jan 2002 01:10:00 GMT

no, i'm not. but i do tip my hat to the insightful thinkers that france produces. almost makes me wish i was french; i could think all day, apply a reasoned discourse to this sorry state of affairs and probably still have time for coffee. the french know how to be difficult, and that i admire. gassee rules, in terms of quotations...

stfu about source leaks

donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) — Thu, 24 Jan 2002 01:30:00 GMT

stfu about source leaks. even if the source is leaked, you can't do anything with it. any project that builds off of that and makes anything substantial would be shot down legally immediately. you can't build an entire os off something illegal!

I think we are not talking about support here

donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) — Thu, 24 Jan 2002 01:46:00 GMT

sympatico.ca, we are talking about an unofficially released update that Palm owns, so topic is you should go on doing your numbers about this, not about that, what ever is the support that can or may give a dissolved company, anyway...

expensive island, I also like some simple frenchies things ("les 400 coeups",...), I hate it when they get "difficult" and start listening to themselves.

But lesbos, really blows me how do you heal this sorry state of affairs with clever quotations. I like the Dano leaking, but applying the Arqchimedes Principle to it doesn't sound very insightful to me, it simply sounds as quack and enlightened megalomaniac as Steve Jobs always sounds to me. Not a good mirror to look at. Gassee-Gassee. Gassee. Gas. Ssee?

It's not about pressure, it's about having it, Dano.

I'm not English, so here is my clever English quotation "Keep walking". Have a whisky, gin's for rippers. My pleasure going offtopic.

Or they want ppl to test it?

donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) — Thu, 24 Jan 2002 02:03:00 GMT

Maybe they aren't doing anything because they want ppl to do some testing to see how it's working.

Or to see what the demand for it is? To see how many people download it.

Palm / BeOS 5.1 / etc

donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) — Thu, 24 Jan 2002 02:04:00 GMT

I am not a fan of using pirated or illegally obtained software. Today, though, I downloaded BeOS "version 5.1" and loaded it up. As such, this is my first post to OSNews from a PC running BeOS - in fact, it's the first time I've used the BeOS in months.
Am I breaking the rules? Probably. Is it illegal? Maybe.
I don't intend to sell the update, post it on the web, burn copies for friends, redistribute it, or even write a review of it. In all likelihood, I probably won't even keep it on my machine. I downloaded it for my own personal curiousity, nothing more. If anything, Palm or other future sellers of BeOS have benefitted by me getting my feet wet with the BeOS again.
What I really wanted to say is this: No one owes anyone anything. When you buy software, there is no promise that it will be eternally supported. There is no commitment that your software will be continually updated, even if the company doesn't sell its intellectual property!
I, like everyone else, am upset that Palm has shunned the BeOS community and deadlocked the code that we'd love to get our hands on. At the same time, they are a corporation and they don't have a responsibility to provide us anything, so I simply can't be mad.
If you are upset, however, you can exert the incredible power you have as a consumer: don't buy Palm products. Short of that, Palm doesn't deserve the ridicule I think many of us have beraged them with.
Step off soapbox.....NOW!

donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) — Thu, 24 Jan 2002 02:05:00 GMT

If there's one thing the internet proves well, it's how many stupid people exist in the world. Holy geez.

[Sandwich Boy:]
Grab it, spread it. Get the damn source and get to work. I have no sympathy for Palm or anyone else involved. Near as I can tell, someone owes the BeOS community.

Great idea. If you spread that source (if it actually was ever leaked, anyway), you've doomed any open-source BeOS completely. Any product based off the source will be blatantly illegal, and Palm could at any point make (somewhat justified) complaints against any product resembling the BeOS, like OpenBeOS, and the courts would have to decide whether or not the contributors actually looked at the code. Small groups can't realistically fight court cases, and all it would take is for one contributor to take a peek one day and they'd lose the case anyway. So good thinking, my friend.

No one owes you. You bought a product. It was discontinued. It happens all the time, especially with small companies. Live with it. And let me know when you hit puberty.

[Some not-stupid comments made about BeOS NG]

As for hurting BeOS NG, I don't think it really matters, because BeOS NG isn't going to make any money, anyway. Sure, 30 or so suckers might buy a product they already have just to show support and get the horribly-designed new installer and a bunch of software they already downloaded long ago, but don't expect most people to.

[Anonymous:]
I've made quite an inversion buying BeOS software in the last two years, Palm ethically owes me not to trash the last update made. So Palm doesn't want to release it and someone leakes it, ok I'll have it with my conscience clear.

Palm ethically owes you nothing. You bought a product. It's been discontinued. You didn't sign a contract for a product that would be continued and improved indefinitely; you bought the product essentially as-is, only being entitled to updates if deficiencies in the product violated the contract (i.e. bugs keeping advertised features from working properly, etc.). If you want to convince yourself that it's ok to use the illegal software, that's fine, but I'd hope you wouldn't buy into such a fundamentally incorrect argument.

[tom6789:]
I think they should stop selling the Pro version, or continue to support it with ports of their software.

They have a license to sell the pro version; why shouldn't they continue to? It doesn't cost them any money. It's not ethically wrong to sell one product and not another.

[Nik:]
Palm can go suck a dick bastards hella jipped us...Stupid people I swear little companies need open source communities and we have one of the most lively...

Yeah.....they, uh, gipped you by purchasing a product and then not letting you license it from them. That makes sense and follows naturally. Wait, no... And I'd love to see some proof for your open-source claim.

PS I hold no conscience when it comes with dealing with the greedy.

I hold no patience when it comes to dealing with the incompetent. Post again when you've learned to think.

The fact is, Palm owns the BeOS and can do whatever the hell they want with it. They don't owe anybody anything, and that doesn't justify the illegal use of the software. That said, I don't think it's going to hurt anybody if you use it, so do what you will. But it's short-term fun, not a long-term solution.

...oh please

donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) — Thu, 24 Jan 2002 02:38:00 GMT

People ranting about Palm OR Be owing them for something is completely ridiculous. Get real, quit trying to justify piracy as a righteous cause. Palm doesn't [morally] owe you or anyone else a damn thing (maybe former stockholders,) morons. How absurd. Fucking thieves. Sandwich Boy; Nik, shut your holes. You've only been "wronged" because you've programmed your own pea brains to believe so. You don't own it, twats.

R5.1 is just too cool for Palm not to release it :)

donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) — Thu, 24 Jan 2002 03:42:00 GMT

Bone is unbeleivably cool and wicked fast! (From what I have read (hee heeee)

I can now afford to wait a while longer for Palm to release the final version.
I am convinced that Palm will release it sooner or later!
It's just too good not to release it.

Got to Love those BeIA Client Platform Docs!

ciao
yc

piracy? I think something has to have value..

donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) — Thu, 24 Jan 2002 04:00:00 GMT

I can't believe that I've read all of these postings. I can't believe I am adding another.

I have never been around a community that is as rabid about anti-piracy as the Be community is - and that is one of the reason's I love it. We are so Ethical and Quirky! Particularly since no community I know of has been as maligned and dumped on as the Be community. we're all like a bunch of battered wife's claiming "but he still loves me". I mean truely - this group has been blatantly lied to and has been cajoled into paying/playing greater than its share more than any other group. Look at all of the old Sakoman promises of what the future will hold..bah..Look at how many of us paid for PRO (multiple copies) when we all KNEW we only needed PE. How many other privately owned OS's have had as many of their drivers and features created by the users - and for what? Yeah I know the response..we coded it because we wanted to..That doesn't hide the fact that all of you developers added to the value of BeOS and you WERE NOT compensated - save for the few who went on to hold jobs there and I am not so certain that was payment enough.

When you release a product for public use and consumption you DO inherit certain responsibilities to the public - fraud issues top the list. When you purposely attempt obfuscate the cancellation of a product in order to continue sales - you are truely starting to skirt the legal line. as much as the poor sap who downloaded Dano for his own curiosity. For the legal eagles - float the idea along with a record of Be's public comments combined with private memo's and see...

Yeah Palm owns Be. Yeah Dano's out there..but here's a newsflash: NO ONE CARES. Palm doesn't care. They have bigger worries and other designs; in one year the Palm OS will be as different from Dano as night from day. In one year Dano will be three years behind everything else (prob. incl. OBOS). If Palm really gave a damn - OpenBeOS would have had to change their name already. If Palm really gave a damn they would...well, just take my word for it, Palm doesn't. Be Inc..who were they? I think their lawyer was sold at the recent auction for aound 25 bucks.

So for all of you that downloaded Dano - Have a blast!
For all of you defending Palm's business rights and acumen - Palm thanks you and asks: "who are you again"?
And for what's right and what's wrong? remember, Individual rights are truths held self-evident; Material rights are just a secondary power of the legistlative branch.
And if you still feel its piracy, and if you still feel DanoDownloaders are corrupt and morally depraved. I would say "your right" - but then you guys have always been on the wrong side of the revolutions...

Re: piracy? I think something has to have value..

donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) — Thu, 24 Jan 2002 06:46:00 GMT

Nice work, Deodatus.

I'm sure the community reaction to The Last Days of Be would provide a fascinating glimpse into the psychology of cyclical hope and despair, if only I could fight back the tides of ennui long enough to look into it.

Requiem aeternam dona eis, Domine.

But...

donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) — Thu, 24 Jan 2002 06:47:00 GMT

he *does* still love me!

Thank you Deodatus for that refreshing end to a painfull thread.

donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) — Thu, 24 Jan 2002 07:47:00 GMT

Deodatus good intelligent post. I agree with you 100%. Now to bkakes do not call others with different opinions idoits when in fact it is you that is foolish. I shall proove it to you.
1)Palm had every right to deny the BeUnited petition that is understandable. But to deny them so vehemently is a slap in the face of this community. Why did they have to resort to such harsh tactics? We werent trying to kill them we just wanted something they dont want. Does it matter if some portion of the OS is open source? NO, why you ask look at Netscape 6.2

2)Palm doesnt owe us anything and so I dont give a rats ass for using software that will be laid by the waist side. Have you ever read the book the The Grapes of Wrath? Remember how the farmers destroyed the piles and piles of oranges to keep the prices up while people died of starvation right in front of them. That is what Palm is doing albeit on a much less important scale but a company that puts such practices first deserve nothing from us. To me its basically what goes around comes around.

3)Companies especially many of the larger ones are controlled by the blood sucking market place. If you dont believe the greed in the modern corporate society just look at the Enron scandal it embodies everything that we say we are against. Yet blindly we go about supporting them. The whole point of the BeOS was to give consumers a choice of an excellent OS that is it had a vision. That vision is now crushed and it is that vision of not having to rely on the coporate machine that is the whole point of our support.

I do not pretend to like the current corporate society that we live in and so I frankly dont care about a entity that is owned by those who look only at its raw profit numbers every three months.

Sorry

donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) — Thu, 24 Jan 2002 08:08:00 GMT

Please forgive me. English is my sixth language.

Niger Pablo

re: piracy? I think something has to have value..

donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) — Thu, 24 Jan 2002 08:35:00 GMT

> I think their lawyer was sold at the recent auction for aound 25 bucks.

Now this begs the question, who in their right minds would pay $25 for a lawyer??

Opinion

donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) — Thu, 24 Jan 2002 08:50:00 GMT

First I'd like to say I've read alot of posts regarding QNX RTP mostly from fromer BE users and most have stated bad performance issues. Well I have a PPro 233mhz with 98mb ram and QNX runs great. QNX is so much better than BeOS and its performance is better.I read some post about running multiple apps and noticing a huge performance decrease well i run many apps at once and everything is great. Second BeOS is crap for not even having multi user while QNX does and second BeOS has a piece of sh*t netstack. The whole UI is junk. I've used many OS's and I enjoy QNX the most. The only drawback is the major lack of apps. I've also seen people crying about QNX having its lack of apps and such on that level/desktop use. It was meant for embedded developers so get over it their not targeting the desktop market. Also, you people need to stop the talk about Palm oweing you something cause they dont. Your little loved OS is dead so get over it. No one cares about some minor updated illegal version that's on the web. Personally, BeOS doesnt offer much. If an OS isnt stable enough to act as a server it isn't woth my time.Finally "BEOS IS DEAD!"

donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) — Thu, 24 Jan 2002 09:44:00 GMT

James -> Your little loved QNX is no use for me. For me it's not comfortable at all.
"If an OS isnt stable enough to act as a server it isn't woth my time." So why You post Your trolling about BeOS? It isn't worth Your precious time ;]

Very Solid Beta!

donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) — Thu, 24 Jan 2002 09:44:00 GMT

Feels very stable although I have not seen it with all the new network services running. I really like the new look and feel! Everything feels light and simply floats. Single Window Browsing is pretty cool!

Old code appears to compile very nicely except for a few header changes and the two support directories. Developers should start porting their code over and publishing the new stuff on BeBits as well.

From what I have learned, I am glad Palm did not license BeOS to anyone. There is still significant work to Be done to make it really competitive. (a lot more drivers, UI API touch-ups etc...) It's not ready to Be Licensed! It will Be easier to do the work without worrying about breaking Partners' code if a radical change is necessary. It's most certainly usable as a development platform even with the relatively limited hardware support!

Long Live BeOS!

ciao
yc

OpenGL maybe not 100% broken

donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) — Thu, 24 Jan 2002 10:17:00 GMT

Somehow I have the feeling the OpenGL is not really broken, if I only would know the "naming convention" of the files ~/config/setting/opengl/
the content of the file is easy, but in "older opengl-betas" they have been named with letters and numbers...
what was possible here was, that I could select SW-OpenGL and RadeonDriver in Quake2, then it booted to the changed settings, but as resolution was 0x0 [default in Q2] nothing came up

anyone can help?

cutegeek

input_server

donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) — Thu, 24 Jan 2002 10:27:00 GMT

Mmm, what did they do with the input_server ? pen movement works but the mousedown clicks don't...

No Piracy me thinks :-)

donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) — Thu, 24 Jan 2002 14:05:00 GMT

Though I'll more than likely get blasted for this but... I think that being that Dano (BeOS 5.1) is on the web (leaked) and Be Inc. doesn't have a sell price or a price tag on it for that matter I don't consider it piracy, call it what you will, but Be nor Palm is selling it, so how is it pirated other than the source leak. I hate to be blunt, but some of the BeOS users are right in someways... Be Inc. had us guessing for almost 2 years and ignored us for that amount of time, they owe their user base more than just this, so they're lucky that the community is somewhat happy about this getting out, and maybe it got out on purpose so to speak. I figure we should know soon enough if Palm cares or not and if they don't who cares compute away and let BeOS 5.1 do the computing!

So 'yc' is really a step up from BeOS 5.0.3?

I am just curious?!

BEOS NG

donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) — Thu, 24 Jan 2002 14:15:00 GMT

BEOS NG is all about
1. ease of installing
2. getting all the neccessary (or useful)updated and apps all bundled together
3. getting new users to expand the user base and comunity

If you don't have #3 the comunity shrivels, BEOS will always lag behind,and never will be considered a viable OS (Developer support or useability)!
without #2 you won't have #3 ever happen hence BEOS might as well be dead!
Without #1 (ease and convience can never be over-empisied in anything) the majority of new user won't try or give OS a chance. and BEOS and tne comunity shrivels!
Those of us in the comunity won't need NG (or OBOS untill it get off the ground and improves on the current BEOS) but the comunity and BEOS won't grow and that will not kill the OS but anything not growing become more and more insignifigent.
If used BEOS since before the focus shift(Be's) and can do with out it, but can't recomend it to anybody anymore!

my guess

donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) — Thu, 24 Jan 2002 15:49:00 GMT

is that palm lets this happen so that we forget that they're going to forget

Peter Shultz...

donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) — Thu, 24 Jan 2002 16:04:00 GMT

You are probably right since they haven't made a big stink about it and I know they must know by now especially with all the old Be Engineers working there are probably still among us in the BeOS community, so they must have heard something!

Good analysis!

Palm will not forget...

donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) — Thu, 24 Jan 2002 16:09:00 GMT

Perhaps they will release a newer version exclusively to highend developers at the PalmSource conference.

They are just logically waiting for the right opportunity.
BeOS is a vey valuable asset. Especially when the desktop OS market may Be opened up in the near future. Remember these 3 words from Nagel's letter: "At This Time"

Time changes continuously!

Long Live BeOS!

ciao
yc

Re: Palm will not forget...

donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) — Thu, 24 Jan 2002 17:36:00 GMT

yc,

I agree with your observation:

"They are just logically waiting for the right opportunity.
BeOS is a vey valuable asset. Especially when the desktop OS market may Be opened up in the near future. Remember these 3 words from Nagel's letter: "At This Time" "

To say, "At This Time" would be redundent unless it had a specific meaning. Of course, he could just have poor grammer, but I remain optimistic that maybe he was trying to say something without saying it.

I guess we'll see in about a week and a half at the PalmSource Developers Conference....

You people are funny...

donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) — Thu, 24 Jan 2002 17:53:00 GMT

They dont care about BeOS or BeIA.

That is why they haven't taken any action.

They bought the engineers. The OS was basically 'free'.

donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) — Thu, 24 Jan 2002 18:04:00 GMT

"I've NEVER used illeagle software. Except maybe the leaked Radeon Driver for BeoS?
But if I could get a copy of this updated BeOS, I'd jump on it."

You see... I never use illegal Software either, except for this... sure enough, I would buy it if it was available... :-p

Look, Beos 5.1 would have been a free uprgade to the 5.0 Pro users, so I cannot obtain illegaly what was meant to be donated to me for free in the first place....

Oh my Gawd... Be Inc was pouring out the full thing, BeOS 5 PE for free to every individual on this planet on a handy CD - still there are no BeOS users around. Now there is a little update that will most likely even break more than it fixes and people start all over this warez-thinggy... If there is one place on earth where this does not apply, it is right here... Strictly hypothetically speaking, of course, as everybody does in here. So be honest: did you D/L the damn thing by now..?!

It's a real pitty... I stopped using BeOS for the lack of U160 - now where it - sure enough - hypothetically arrived, I moved on with U160 Adaptec RAID, which I am about to switch to ICP/ Vortex these days... There is no point in having 6 out of 8 drives useless due to a lack of drivers. Of course, I never expected such drivers to appear for BeOS at any time...

Where to find the Distro and Sources

donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) — Thu, 24 Jan 2002 19:49:00 GMT

Just download and install BeShare and Muscled, found at your local www.bebits.com or mirror. Then login in, go to any of the listed servers (www.beshare.com for a list) and list all files (read documentation for details on how to do this, '*' in search field should work). Look for files named 'beos5.0d1.zip', files *.zip, or approximately 68 megs in size. Download, burn with directions found online (either in BeOS or in Nero Burning Rom) and presto you have what you are all looking for in life. A healthy illegal way to spend a day wasting your time.

Response to Nik

donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) — Thu, 24 Jan 2002 20:55:00 GMT

Now to bkakes do not call others with different opinions idoits when in fact it is you that is foolish. I shall proove it to you.

Let's examine how you "prooved" it, shall we?

But to deny them so vehemently is a slap in the face of this community.

No it isn't. You have to deny things strongly to this community or else they'll keep pestering you until the end of time. Look at people like yc, who for years have been taking the slightest bit of hope out of every statement (and boy, has he outdone himself this time) and turning it into what he considers a big deal. Much better to have a firm "no" than a soft one, for the soft answer would breed hope that will lead to nowhere except wasted time and effort.

Does it matter if some portion of the OS is open source? NO, why you ask look at Netscape 6.2

There's a big difference between "some" and "all," and notice that Netscape is only alive because AOL funds them. They could never rely on the "revenue" brought in from Netscape 6.2. So your "proof" is, well, fundamentally flawed at best.

That is what Palm is doing albeit on a much less important scale but a company that puts such practices first deserve nothing from us. To me its basically what goes around comes around.

They don't give it to you, so they're bastards. Interesting. You're absolutely right, though, they don't deserve anything from you. That, of course, doesn't justify your pirating their code. Apparently, this thought has apparently not occurred to you.

3)Companies especially many of the larger ones are controlled by the blood sucking market place. If you dont believe the greed in the modern corporate society just look at the Enron scandal it embodies everything that we say we are against.

I'm not against companies looking out for their own interests, and nor should anyone else be. Sure you have some bad apples--Enron being an obvious example--but that doesn't mean a free market system is bad. Jeffrey Dahmer was a man; are all humans therefore evil? Your reaoning is at best severly flawed. Proof by one example certainly makes things easier, though.

That vision is now crushed and it is that vision of not having to rely on the coporate machine that is the whole point of our support.

Actually, I used the BeOS because it was better, not because I wanted to fight "the man." Discussing the merits of corporations in a free society is a much larger task and I'm not about to go into it here, although I suggest you find some education on the subject for your own sake.

I do not pretend to like the current corporate society that we live in and so I frankly dont care about a entity that is owned by those who look only at its raw profit numbers every three months.

You don't like them, so it's ok to steal from them. Good philosophy. Now, where do you live? I wouldn't mind another TV and maybe a bike or something...

ah, yc again.......love that guy.....makes me laugh for hours

donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) — Thu, 24 Jan 2002 20:58:00 GMT

Remember these 3 words from Nagel's letter: "At This Time"

[imaginero:]

To say, "At This Time" would be redundent unless it had a specific meaning. Of course, he could just have poor grammer, but I remain optimistic that maybe he was trying to say something without saying it.

Easy; it's very standard press-release-like talk that simply doesn't rule out anything in the future. They have nothing to gain by ruling out anything, so why would they? This, of course, doesn't mean that they plan to, just that there's a clear advantage to leave the door open.

If you guys want to sit and wait around optimistically, be my guest. Me, however, I like to move on once the girl says no rather than waiting around for her to change her mind.

bkakes...

donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) — Thu, 24 Jan 2002 21:13:00 GMT

>>>Does it matter if some portion of the OS is open source? NO, why you ask look at Netscape 6.2There's a big difference between "some" and "all," and notice that Netscape is only alive because AOL funds them. They could never rely on the "revenue" brought in from Netscape 6.2. So your "proof" is, well, fundamentally flawed at best.

donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) — Thu, 24 Jan 2002 21:14:00 GMT

If you guys want to sit and wait around optimistically, be my guest. Me, however, I like to move on once the girl says no rather than waiting around for her to change her mind.

I suppose some people don't mind settling for her slightly retarded cousin, though...

I meant to say...

donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) — Thu, 24 Jan 2002 21:15:00 GMT

>>they just offer free web browsers

sorry for any confusion :-(

donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) — Thu, 24 Jan 2002 21:26:00 GMT

>>At my work we actually use Netscape >browser< as our network management interface for our Cisco routers and hubs, it is a great tool used by the whole industry and is still very well valued in the Linux/UNIX community.

donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) — Thu, 24 Jan 2002 22:19:00 GMT

Netscape is still a valued commodity to the computer industry

No doubt, but that doesn't mean they would have gone under without being bought out. The larger issue is that to use Netscape as evidence for his point suggests deep flaws with not only his argument, but also his judgment.

Where did this come from? A gift? A gag-gift even? Or just plan wrong?

donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) — Thu, 24 Jan 2002 22:37:00 GMT

I've been a beloved BeOS lover since 1997 and I have been a B.U.G Group Starter/Owner all the way until Palm came into the picture along with the "focus shift." But what's happened in the past few days has been sort of a real shocker to me and I'm searching for answers on this board and frankly its a bunch of messy bitching from Be Lovers and Be Playa-Haters. :c) (To be nice about it)

Time to review the picture and situation we have in front of us...
Where did this release come from? Had anyone known about the release and its location online? Who originally contacted the news sites that this file was online? When was it posted online? And why is it online...

Why in fact is this online after all the crap that went on about Palm and NO-BE-4-you campaigning? I love BeOS...I love Palm too. (Hate me) But please...is this a sign of hope? A sign of a last second attempt to please the crowds? Or is it something more if that even?

Has Palm become a little dare devil taker and decided to actually be behind all of this and see "what the reaction is" because of all these damn hippies with OpenBeOS, SaveBe, BEOS FOREVER, etc.

Felt the urge to set a new level...quit with the bitching about who owes you what and lets focus on the fact that this file is now available online for ALL and we don't know who the hell left this nice gift for us.

:)
Kemph

a.o.k.a BePDK

www.kemph.com

bkakes...

donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) — Fri, 25 Jan 2002 00:22:00 GMT

>>Netscape is still a valued commodity to the computer industry

No doubt, but that doesn't mean they would have gone under without being bought out. The larger issue is that to use Netscape as evidence for his point suggests deep flaws with not only his argument, but also his judgment.

donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) — Fri, 25 Jan 2002 04:16:00 GMT

> Now this begs the question, who in their right minds would pay $25 for a lawyer??

It looks very good on my mantel peice.

> Solaris and Linux can't run Internet Explorer and probably wont anytime soon

Solaris can run MSIE 5 (and Windows edia Player 6 not that thats all that relivent , and I'm pritty sure I've seen a beta of 5.5, but I can't be arse to search MS's home page.

It was dog slow on my uni's (10yr I think) old pizza box, and outlook was, well, err, dog slow too, but then Netscape was pritty slow too, and Rose... Hmm wonder if it was just a old slow box

> BEOS IS DEAD

Yeap. shame, why do people keep posting it?

mlk

The good, the bad and the somewhat ugly

donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) — Fri, 25 Jan 2002 04:27:00 GMT

Well, I've "theived" BeOS 5.1 and am posting with it right now. I've played around with it for just a couple and heres my initial reaction for anyone that cares:

The Good:
-The problem I had with single window browsing are GONE.
-Web pages/downloads are noticabley faster
-It maybe my imagination, but I would swear HDD runs faster and quieter? i.e. large disk copies
-The slight GUI improvements are GREAT (but you can revert them)
-Real Player and Gobe Poductive still work, as do most apps
-The default CD Burner works better (though no new burners are listed in the "about")

The Bad:
-Some apps won't work, like Opera (haven't tried Flash yet)

The Ugly:
-No modem lights on Deskbars shelf
-My Cirrus Logic 56K ISA hardware/jumpered modem wouldn't work! Had to install a PCI pnp (Lucent)

Overall, I'd say its worth the download! Hopefully Palm will give its blessing with a PE style license, seeing as how they'll never get it off the net anyways . . .

Any live link to 5.1... please...

donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) — Fri, 25 Jan 2002 09:17:00 GMT

Send to my e-mail directly. Thanks in advance.

AB

Easy way to install Dano

donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) — Fri, 25 Jan 2002 09:30:00 GMT

Create a BEOS folder in a FAT32 partion that can be seen from your BeOS partion, and rename beos.iso to BEOS.IMG, put it into the BEOS folder and reboot to BeOS, then Install.

My question to the Dano users - my media-server-addon server craches all the time, what did you do about it? And also, when you change the decor to some nifty one, do you see the garbage left on screen, especially if you resize and move a window around?

Question to WaZoo

donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) — Fri, 25 Jan 2002 12:43:00 GMT

How (acctually - where) can I get that Dano ? Please,
answer personaly, directly to my email. Thanks.

AB

IE on Solaris?!

donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) — Fri, 25 Jan 2002 13:46:00 GMT

[mlk]
>>Solaris can run MSIE 5 (and Windows edia Player 6 not that thats all that relivent , and I'm pritty sure I've seen a beta of 5.5, but I can't be arse to search MS's home page.

IE on Solaris.

donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) — Fri, 25 Jan 2002 14:18:00 GMT

Is this for Solaris on PC or Solaris on Suns own machines? We did try 'HotJava' Sun's own web browser, but reverted back to Netscape, either way I doubt they'll even attempt to load IE on our Sun workstations, Netscape works really well on Solaris!

I can't vouch if this will work for on x86 solaris, but I used it a few times on an UltraSPARC machine and it interested me about as much as IE on Windows does... I got sick of it quickly and retreated to the happy ground of Mozilla.

donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) — Fri, 25 Jan 2002 15:04:00 GMT

To all those ppl that say they haven't used illegal software:
I have yet to meet any of you in real life.

That said, I'm curious about this BeOS 'update', and will download it for sure.

Need WinImage.zip

donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) — Fri, 25 Jan 2002 15:15:00 GMT

Hi,

My company DELL computers wont let me download neither .ZIP not .EXE files. .EXE files does not eaven go through email... Would anyone car to downlaod winimage for me, and send it to me by mail... So I could get PE running on my workstation here... Need it to write the vootdisk in the Linux verision of PE... If you mail me dano 5.1 to I'd be happy.-..

Link to winimage:
http://home.no.net/adittien/sigurdsgate/
or direct
http://home.no.net/adittien/sigurdsgate/files/winimage.zip

Adittien

A couple comments

donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) — Fri, 25 Jan 2002 17:39:00 GMT

While Deodatus' comment is eloquent and sums up my own feelings pretty well, legally those who say that Palm doesn't owe any BeOS user anything are absolutely correct., because legally Be, Inc., didn't owe buyers anything once the product was delivered. Because of the asinine software licenses we've all come to accept without protest, they don't even owe us working products. (Read the license on virtually any piece of software you've ever bought. I guarantee you it wil be an "as is" license.)

The anger comes from whether that's ethical rather than merely legal. I've been through the dying platform blues before--no, not the Amiga, but the Radio Shack TRS-80. How did Radio Shack handle the platform's death? Well, the last TRS-80 Model 4 was made in 1988. They gave the rights to the OS back to the developers, Logical Systems, and made the version 6.3 update that came out around 1989 (as "LS-DOS" rather than "TRSDOS" now) available through their stores. They kept providing hardware repairs for years., until they sold their hardware line to AST. (Technically AST has the rights to the TRS-80, although I think AST subsequently went under. Ironically I think AST actually made a PC with BeOS preinstalled on it for a short time.) And the last time I checked out of morbid curiosity, in 2000, you could still special-order software for their old computers from any Radio Shack store in the country.

Say what you will about Radio Shack--they know how to treat old customers gracefully.

donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) — Fri, 25 Jan 2002 18:16:00 GMT

WattsM,

You only partially delineate the responsibilities line. Even if the BeOS EULA is written so that the consumer has every right to demand bug fixes and so forth, you can only demand bug fixes from Be Inc., not Palm Inc. because Palm Inc. only bought the source code --- they didn't buy the whole company.

Your Radio Shack example is also flawed for the same reason because Radio Shack sold you the computer --- it's their responsibilites to provide hardware fixes. There is no obligation for the Logical Systems people to continue providing updates --- just because LS continued to do so doesn't mean they are required to do so --- the most likely explanation might be that Logical Systems thought that they can make a buck selling OS fixes and OS upgrades, so they provided said OS upgrades.

WattsM

donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) — Fri, 25 Jan 2002 21:29:00 GMT

You got it 100%. Today, what's "right" isn't even a second thought. Only what's "legal" and at that, how can the legality be bent to make more profit.

Of course, it's really the fault of consumers... consumers have yet to actually revolt against the EULA... so this industry will continue to get worse. Ever heard of the UCITA?

I hate the computer industry with vigor and pride.

cannot get Dano to install

donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) — Fri, 25 Jan 2002 22:01:00 GMT

Anyone got a simple way to install Dano, because I cannot get the damn thing to install.

donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) — Fri, 25 Jan 2002 22:27:00 GMT

>
>Anyone got a simple way to install Dano, because I cannot get the damn thing to install.
>

Burn it, mount it, drag and copy it over your existing files then reboot. Backup first of course.

Re: Jace

donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) — Fri, 25 Jan 2002 22:29:00 GMT

You got it 100%. Today, what's "right" isn't even a second thought. Only what's "legal" and at that, how can the legality be bent to make more profit.

You almost make it sound like being interested in profit is a bad thing [shudder]. The problem with what you're saying is that what's "right" is a wide, wide range of arbitrary notions for most people. Just read this comments page! People have all sorts of nonsensical beliefs about what the "right thing" to do is, and many of them try to explain why you should have to do something for me for free.

The law, imperfect as sections of it may be, isn't arbitrary. Most notably, it protects one of the most basic "rights": contract protection. That is, it makes sure the contracts you enter into are not violated. When you purchased the BeOS, you didn't enter into a contract saying you'd get BONE and OpenGL down the line for sure, and you certainly didn't enter into one saying that Be would release the source code for the OS to the general public (or a subset of the community) should they run out of money.

After reading many of your opinions, it's very clear that you're like so many here in Berkeley; you're mad about certain things within the current system, which makes you might wild assertions about how things need to change. The problem is, you seem to lack a consistent foundation of how things should be (one example would be the Objectivist principles), so you end up committing the ultimate sin: you're arbitrary in your beliefs and thus what you call for would violate people's rights.

Of course, it's really the fault of consumers... consumers have yet to actually revolt against the EULA

Of course it's the fault of the consumers. If you don't like the contract, don't enter into it. Pretty simple.

RE: cannot get Dano to install

donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) — Fri, 25 Jan 2002 22:30:00 GMT

As posted in post number 7: (don't beat me up Eugenia!
http://www.markround.com/beos/unofficial.html

Follow the installation guide.

Note:
In the "screen" preferences there is, allegedly, a feature that lets you select different window decorations. They include a sort of "Aqua-ish" theme, and several variations on the usual BeOS window tab, and you can select the "classic" look if you want.

If this does not work, then post the issues that you are having.

ciao
yc

I have failed you Dano :-(

donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) — Fri, 25 Jan 2002 23:30:00 GMT

Well I decided to give BeOS 5.1 'Dano' a shot as well, so I called up one of my PC wielding friends to use his computer for a guinea pig for testing (I only have my Macs here in Europe with me, so no go there). He wasn't running BeOS 5 currently, he gave up on BeOS after last summer with all the bad news. Anyways we went on ahead and installed BeOS again on one of his PCs and then tried to install 'Dano' since we couldn't boot straight to the disk and needed BeOS on the machine to recognize the files (including the installer) we then installed 'Dano' and booted... ended up getting a 'Kernel Panic' (as we all have seen in the past) and tried and tried and tried with no luck. But my buddy figures since you guys got it to work, it should work. So he is going to fiddle with it some more on his own Sunday and let me know of his success!

We didn't try too hard tonight, so I am not discouraged yet!

donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) — Fri, 25 Jan 2002 23:57:00 GMT

>>>>You got it 100%. Today, what's "right" isn't even a second thought. Only what's "legal" and at that, how can the legality be bent to make more profit.

>>>>Of course, it's really the fault of consumers... consumers have yet to actually revolt against the EULA... so this industry will continue to get worse. Ever heard of the UCITA?

You fell into the same trap as WattsM.

Even if Ralph Nadar is the U.S. President and the U.S. government mandates that consumers be given certain rights under EULA --- you can only go after Be Inc., not Palm Inc.

Palm Inc. didn't purchase the whole Be Inc. company, they only purchase the source code. Palm had 2 choices --- (1) paid 11 million dollars for the IP and leave the 7.2 million dollar worth of winding up liabilities (which includes supporting retail BeOS customers) to Be Inc. OR (2) paid 3.8 million dollars to purchase the whole Be Inc. company and absorb the 7.2 million dollar winding up liabilities themselves (which includes supporting retail BeOS customers). In effect, Palm paid MORE MONEY to Be Inc. so that Palm doesn't have to deal with you people.

Re: I have failed you Dano :-(

donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) — Sat, 26 Jan 2002 00:26:00 GMT

>We didn't try too hard tonight, so I am not discouraged yet!

It is known that Dano has issues in SOME machines (machines that previously could run R5 just fine).

Eugenia

donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) — Sat, 26 Jan 2002 00:38:00 GMT

>>It is known that Dano has issues in SOME machines (machines that previously could run R5 just fine).

CattBeMac

donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) — Sat, 26 Jan 2002 01:19:00 GMT

Try installing from scratch on a new clean partition.

Keep trying! It's well worth the effort.

ciao
yc

yc...

donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) — Sat, 26 Jan 2002 03:14:00 GMT

Alrighty I'll definitely give it a shot!

Thanks for the encouragement!!

Regards...

CattBeMac

Opera Does work on 5.1

donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) — Sat, 26 Jan 2002 11:42:00 GMT

i copied over the Opera folder from my other version of BeOS and Opera works fine.

You'll also need /boot/home/config/settings/Opera/ as this is where the toolbar buttons and other stuff is located

eh......

donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) — Sat, 26 Jan 2002 14:42:00 GMT

I don't think it's anything spectacular. BONE is nice, but thats about it. The GUI changes are, IMHO, lackluster at best compared to XP, OS X, GNOME and KDE. In fact, they look almost amaturish. I'll keep it on my system, but like 5.03 before it, I suspect it's use will wane into a waste of space on a hard disk. That is until OpenBEOS comes along.

There is Plenty of new stuff to like!

donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) — Sat, 26 Jan 2002 19:20:00 GMT

For end users:
--------------
New Decor option in the "Screen Preference" (I prefer Origin)
New Printing system and drivers.
New much faster networking (faster browsing and downloads).
Lots of new options and services in BoneYard control panel. (Very! very nice)
New Color Control panel to configure colors of UI objects.
Better USB support.
Improved Media control panel.
Improved TV application.
Gobe Productive and Most other apps work fine!
Netscape Mozilla works better!
New File Browser features in the "Windows Menu->Settings" option of browser window.
*Desktop
-New Show disks icon Option
-New Integrate Non-BeOS Desktops (very nice)
-New Mount Settings
*Windows
-Show Full Path in title bar
-Single Window Browse (Very! very! nice and powerful)
+Show Navigator
-Show Selection when active
*File Panel
-Root setting
-Recent doc setting.
*Time Format
-various options

For Developers:
---------------
New ColumnListView class (The header file looks very powerful)(no html doc yet!)
New XML Kit. (Very nice and powerful classes)
New Networking Kit.
New Media Kit.
Improved compiler.
Improved Interface Kit.

Over all 5.1Beta is a huge improvement over 5.0 and is very stable!

This OS is just too cool, too complete for Palm not to release a new final version some day. Although I'm glad Palm chose not license this Desktop Rev because there is *still* plenty of work to Be done and licensing/supporting this rev in production while making modifications in house would Be difficult as many things will probably change radically.

Long Live BeOS!

ciao
yc

yc.....how I love this guy

donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) — Sat, 26 Jan 2002 23:38:00 GMT

Lots of new options and services in BoneYard control panel. (Very! very nice)

Nice options, horrible interface. Yay.

New Color Control panel to configure colors of UI objects.

Yay.

New File Browser features in the "Windows Menu->Settings" option of browser window.........

Every one of the many features you mentioned came from OpenTracker. Yay.

You mentioned all sorts of fairly worthless things and you didn't mention that they final removed the app_server's throttling for scrolling and window dragging? I'm ashamed.

Over all 5.1Beta is a huge improvement over 5.0 and is very stable!

"Huge" is a bit much, but it is definitely a nice little improvement. Had it come out a year and a half ago when it should have, it might have been a big deal.

This OS is just too cool, too complete for Palm not to release a new final version some day.

It must be fun to live in your own naive little world. Dealing with reality can be hard.

while making modifications in house

Because that's what they're doing. Yep. Palm realizes that there is a ton of money to be made from an outdated OS with about 400 users, which would directly compete with the (now technically superior) products from Microsoft and Apple, and not to mention the freely-available OSes that have recently seen lots of corporate involvement. Makes sense, right? Why fight Microsoft on only one front when you can fight them on two! Sure-fire recipe for success!

Long Live BeOS!

"No, I swear, one of these days she's going to realize that she really likes me! You just wait!"

Thanks for the hours of laughing at your expense. It's been fun for years, yet you seem to always beat out my expectations, yc.

yc.....how I love this guy

donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) — Sun, 27 Jan 2002 00:42:00 GMT

>>Thanks for the hours of laughing at your expense.

Wow, you are easily amused! You just keep on laughing bubba... I can afford it!

ciao
yc

The more I explore r5.1 the more I like it!

donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) — Sun, 27 Jan 2002 01:03:00 GMT

Some of the new APIs are really cool!
BColumnListView is awsome! "Santa's Gift Bag" CLV developers should check it out...

The XML stuff looks very good as well.

Long Live BeOS!

ciao
yc

Install clean copy of EXP/DANO

donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) — Sun, 27 Jan 2002 16:54:00 GMT

If you have no existing Be partition and an extra drive sitting around this could work for you.

1. Boot machine using BeOS Pro 5.0 (or bootable BeOS PE cd)
2. Partition and initialize a BeOS partition from the menu
3. Unmount BeOS Pro cd and swap with your EXP/DANO 5.1 disc
4. Return to main installer and select the new disc
5. Begin install

In order to get the Pro only edition software (ex. RealPlayer), just mount it upon reboot and manually copy the files.

Platforms supported

donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) — Sun, 24 Feb 2002 01:59:00 GMT

Well, i have only one question about BeOS5.1:

Does it run on PowerMac???
and what are the Mac-system requirements for Dano?

well... that goes to two questions...
who has the answer? tell me, please...

r.i.m.a.s