http://www.osnews.com/story/604/Running_AmigaOS_on_a_PC_Review_of_AmigaOS_XL Exploring the Future of Computing en-us Copyright 2001-2009, David Adams adam+nospam@osnews.com Tue, 10 Nov 2009 11:40:30 GMT http://www.osnews.com/images/osnews.gif http://www.osnews.com http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? Great article, but a few small problems:

"Then finally in 1997 Gateway bought the Amiga technolgy and promised to bring back the Amiga computer into the stores, but strangely and suddenly, Amiga`s new president resigned and sold all his $11 million dollars worth of Gateway shares simultaniously to when the current Amiga CEO and enthusiast Bill McEwen was fired by the Gateway management team."

Translation?

Also, the photos gave me a headache. Please focus them properly in the future.

I've always wanted an Amiga, and I still do Mon, 04 Feb 2002 07:43:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? > Translation?

Well Fleecy Moss stated in an interview that Gateway was scared because of Microsoft making threats. It was about something like Gateway losing good deals on Windows if they would go up against Microsoft. This would have hurt Gateway`s business too much, so they can`t be entirely blamed for this. However Jim Collas who was Senior Vice-President of Gateway 2000 before heading Amiga Inc did not get enough financial resources and was not even allowed to make his own decissions needed to pull the Amiga platform forward, therefor all he could do was leave.

> Also, the photos gave me a headache. Please focus them properly in the future.

Oops some tumbnails were not intended to be linked to their full size images because of this. This will soon be corrected. Mon, 04 Feb 2002 08:00:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? It was hard to find anything on performance except for a few short sentences. Playing video okay, reboot 12s, UAE is not optimal when compared.

How fast is the emulation? What kind of x86 machine do you need to get the responsiveness and performance of a "base" Amiga? (whatever that is nowadays...)

It would be interesting to get to know more about the emulation tech, the integration with QNX was interesting. And more on the technical differences AmithlonAmigaXL. (yes, I followed links to FAQs and stuff. I need to know more. Damn you for wasting my time with interesting topics.)

A lot of the article covered Amiga-specific stuff that I am already familiar with. I would really appreciate a more technical in-depth article, or just some pointers to where to find such information. Mon, 04 Feb 2002 08:32:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? >>Well Fleecy Moss stated in an interview that Gateway was scared because of Microsoft making threats. It was about something like Gateway losing good deals on Windows if they would go up against Microsoft. This would have hurt Gateway`s business too much, so they can`t be entirely blamed for this. Mon, 04 Feb 2002 08:36:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? Nice work Mike Bouma. I have not had an AmigaComputer for years now. Im now looking for a cheap A1200 with harddrive so i can much around in AmigaOS. I would also like to try OpenBSD on an Amiga .

Nice artile btw. Mon, 04 Feb 2002 08:38:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? Joshua Q wrote:

> It was hard to find anything on performance except for a few short sentences.

Benchmarks suggest that on a 1 Ghz Athlon the emulated AmigaOS on AmigaXL equals the performance of a 450 Mhz 68040 powered Amiga. With Amithlon it suggests the performance of a 1070 Mhz 68040!?

However in real life the emulated Amiga does not feel like several times the speed of a true 66 Mhz 68060 powered Amiga (it feels extremely fast though, faster than any other mainstream OS out there). Although during 3D rendering and other complex computer calculated tasks you do get amazing performance results.

Here are some results comparing a 1.3GHz Athlon Amithlon powered PC to the performance of an A3000/CSPPC with 66 MHz 060 and 233 MHz 604e PPC. Mon, 04 Feb 2002 08:47:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? I have several Amigas, and often like to bust them out of the closet once in a while to
marvel at the technology, which is very old now, and play a few games. I had
every model at one point, but sold a couple of high end ones, as they were taking
up alot of space, and I really could not use it for a "main" computer. I keep the older
models (even a 1000!) around for fun once in a while and have some nice Amiga monitors
that give a SUPER picture. But I was wondering...what is the point of beating a dead
horse in the Amiga OS. The Amiga OS was definitely ahead of its time and gives
blazing performance, even on the old hardware. The problems lay in the fact that the
strength of the Amiga was not just the OS, but the hardware, that was basically hand
crafted into a computer of enormous power at the time. Nowadays though, even if you
had an Amiga OS computer that was PPC based and fast as hell...what software would
you run? No one seems to mention that the new Amiga platform is a new OS with
virtually no real modern applications...so what is the point? Web browsing? I mean
my Amiga 3000 was good running Linux, which gave the machine some modern useability
but even that was slow and limited...

Dano. Mon, 04 Feb 2002 09:28:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? What is the state of MIDI suport on either platform. What legacy midi or audio sequencers are supported by Amithlon or Amiga XL.What soundcard support is there. Finally when will the amiga emerge from the silent movie era. We should all read subtitles under amiga graphics. What support is ther for AC 97, creative labs or other sound standards. Amiga as usual great graphic performance and total audio incompetence. Mon, 04 Feb 2002 09:28:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? Daniel DeMerchant wrote:

> The problems lay in the fact that the strength of the Amiga was not just the OS, but the hardware

Yes the performance benefit of future Amiga platforms compared to modern systems will only come from better AmigaOS performance. Nowadays it is impossible to do the same with regard hardware as compared to the revolution Amigas caused in 1985. Just look at the size companies producing graphic chipsets nowadys. It is impossible to both create better chipsets and also develop a new powerful AmigaOS simultaniously.

> Nowadays though, even if you had an Amiga OS computer that was PPC based and
> fast as hell...what software would you run?

First of all the new PPC AmigaOS includes a powerful integrated 68k emulator (By Haage&Partner). So software working correctly on AmigaOS XL should work just fine with these new PPC based systems as well.

Secondly Hyperion Entertainment has stated that alot of effort is being made to make sure that the AmigaOS stays compatible with currently available PPC software. Their own PPC titles currently available, HereticII, Shogo and Freespace should be able to work on the new OS. They are sure that eventual problems (if there are any) can be easily fixed with only simple patches. Similarly cuurently available professional PPC applications should be able to function without problems or will be portable to the new platform without much effort. Hyperion will also port RealSoft 3D (a very popular Amiga program a decade ago) to the new platform and their Amiga game port of SiN is already finished, but is being held back until new powerful hardware is released in combination with AmigaOS 4.0. The Hyperion guys are very talented for example in their spare time they ported QuakeII in just a matter of days and it will surely be in available in a stable form by the time the new hardware and OS are available. (The Quake II source was only recently GPLed). Hyperion also own the Amiga rights to many other entertainment titles including Soldier of Fortune, Majesty and Worms: Armageddon. Mon, 04 Feb 2002 11:39:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? Nice article. I liked the intergration with QNX that H&P did. I wonder is there any such like integration between the two emulators? i.e. do you have to have 2 copies of everything, or can both emulators somehow share the same Amiga partition? - if not the main OS partition the data partition, that has all your apps and stuff? Mon, 04 Feb 2002 13:56:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? I wish something an emulator like Amithlon would exist for the Atari OS.

Hey Eugenia, what about some Atari/Mint etc. News? Mon, 04 Feb 2002 14:15:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? Mike -

Great article - once again you have done us all a service in getting the Word out to a more general public. Mon, 04 Feb 2002 14:34:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? I can't speak of the QNX-based emulation, but I have been
experimenting with audio on Amithlon. It is at an early stage.

Sound output from a SB-128 works, but there is sometimes some
crackling if another program is using a hard disk. This is being
addressed in the update. There is no record input as yet.

MIDI output from the serial port works, but not input. MIDI on the
sound card is not yet supported.

I expect substantial improvements in audio support in the forthcoming
update. The main thing to notice now is the extremely high speed in
programs such as SoundFX or Audio Evolution. I'll post a comparison in
a few minutes. Mon, 04 Feb 2002 14:49:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? OK, I'm sold. Now where can I obtain these products in the U.S.?

d@ Mon, 04 Feb 2002 15:09:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? This compares the time taken for a task on an Amiga A4000 with 68060
CPU, versus an Amithlon setup with a 1.7GHz Athlon.

I wanted to reverse the order of the samples in a 44 Megabyte sound
file. I digitised this from a 4-track tape played on a 2-track tape
recorder, so two of the tracks were backwards.

The software is AmigaOS 3.9 with FFS file system in both machines. The
IDE drive and IDE hardware are both faster on the Amithlon machine, as
well as the CPU. The audio program used is Samplitude.

Load 44 Meg from disk to RAM project: 55 secs on A4000, 5 secs on
Amithlon
Reverse sample: 12 secs on A4000, 2 secs (or less) on Amithlon
Export AIFF file back to disk: 70 secs on A4000, 3 secs on Amithlon.

Totals: 137 secs on A4000, 10 secs on Amithlon.

That gives a good fast computer that I can use for real work without
hanging around. Once the drivers are available for a variety of sound
cards, Amithlon will be a very useful platform for audio. Mon, 04 Feb 2002 15:17:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? I love the amiga dearly - i'd prolly still be usin one if my 1200 and 50 Mhz 060 didn't short out - i use macs right now - haven't switched to OS X yet since I'm poor and apple expect all their customers to be rich bastards aherm - anyway my point is couldn't they make a version of this for os X ? and wouldn't that help somehow the development of PPC sw for the new os? Mon, 04 Feb 2002 16:03:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? This article has me very interested in trying this. I've never used an original Amiga but I've always wanted to. The price however is kind of high for a "quick try". Could anyone tell me or point me to a place I could find out the kind of hardware compatibility? For example I find myself doubting it'd have support for things like USB and maybe even CD-RW drives as well as DVD and such ( as well as QNX considering they appear to run together seemlessly? ). Thanks! Mon, 04 Feb 2002 16:27:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? ...and take the place it deserves in the land of computers. That is, the top position!!!

...and fight off PCs! PCs stink...even with Dual Pentium 4s and 1 GB of ram, the PC feels sluggish, slow as hell, Windows sux, BSOD every now and then; Windows break after installing any new game...some say that their Win2000 box is stable as a rock. Yeah, but they haven't tested anything new (hard/soft) in their machines for years!

...and bring back the home computer/back bedroom programming fun!...an include-all box like 1200, with PPC CPU, super-duper 3D graphics, and Amiga O/S...price range up to 400$...

...and show the world how dumb Commodore was and how genius the Amiga developers were...

...and remind Atari ST ex-owners why the Amiga was superior....

Long live the Amiga!!! Mon, 04 Feb 2002 16:50:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? I remember back when Commodore had first gone under and people were bidding for the remains that an ex-Commodore UK guy (who happened to be leading a group that most Amiga fans seemed to want to win the asset auction) said that Commodore's final management team really wasn't as bad as Amiga fans believed--they were really trying to clean up messes made by the previous team and weren't able to do it.

Two entertaining factoids I remember: one of the previous management teams had talked with Jean-Louis Gassee when he was at Apple about taking over Commodore's engineering group. JLG made a counterproposal of taking over the entire company and bringing out a new computer: a multiprocessor machine with a new software architecture designed from the ground up for multiprocessing and smooth multitasking. This was similar to the original Newton idea he was championing at Apple (the Newton that came out had almost nothing to do with the first Newton project). Commodore's management didn't like the counter proposal and it never happened, of course.

The other one was that Escom wasn't actually the highest bidder for the Amiga assets: a group that was a partnership between a major Amiga distributor in Orlando, Florida, and a major PC company was. The PC company was primarily interested in Amiga's patents, and CAE (the distributor, if I'm remembering the name right) was interested in continuing development on the Amiga line--which the PC company had agreed to help with. The company wasn't the PC company that ended up with Amiga, though--it was Dell. Mon, 04 Feb 2002 17:43:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? Interesting piece, but I'm afraid it's not a review. It's a piece of Amiga evangelism in the wrong place.

We don't need to be told about AmigaOS. We don't need to be told about AmigaOS apps, or about how good or bad they are, or anything about Amiga itself.

There's about 5 pages of irrelevant stuff in there.

This is meant to be a review of an emulation package.

There are, as I understand it, two emulators.

Identify them. What are the differences? What do they do? Why use them instead of UAE or Fellow?

Start with one. Explain what it is and how it works. Explain how it's installed and used. Comment on how well it works. Criticize its failings, don't just praise its strengths.

Then take the 2nd. Do exactly the same.

Now, compare the two. Explain the differences. Take 1#. Point out where #1 is better than #2, then where #1 is worse than #2. Now take #2 and do the same.

Now, comment on the overall package. Compare it to any competitors: UAE, Fellow, AiaB, AmigaForever. Compare it to a real modern Amiga.

What's in the box? What manuals? What's the help like? What's the support like?

Specify its EXACT hardware requirements. Explain an optimal config, a minimal one, and the difference it makes.

Explain its cost and where to get it.

Summarise, in ten words each, its pros, its cons, and an overall verdict. Award it points out of ten for performance, ease of use, features, functionality, compatibility, value for money and overall.

*That* is a review.

This piece, however enjoyable, isn't.

But thanks for it! I enjoyed it. It just didn't tell me what I needed to know: do I want it? Is it worth buying?

--
Liam P.
[echoed on /.] Mon, 04 Feb 2002 18:19:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? It is my understanding that AmigaXL is built ontop of QNX and is just a 68K emulator with redirection of services to the QNX layer for hardware etc. Whereas Amithlon is built ontop of a minimal Linux core (very minimal) and is also a 68K emulator but is also capable of calling into native x86 code. Amithlon is in part by the same guy who did the JIT for UAE (its my understanding that the JIT in UAE is an early version of the Amithlon code that he 'gave' to the UAE people and hence is less mature and less stable than the Amithlon version).

I'd also have liked to have heard more (do a follow up!) as I admit to being tempted. Mon, 04 Feb 2002 20:13:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? I was just wondering if you purchase an AmigaXL cd with the OS on it and install it just like any other operating system? Also does it run most native Amiga apps...and from what they stated doesn't it also run QNX apps? Wish I could check this OS out but I believe they stated you need at least a 500mhz processor and my 233mhz doesn't come close to that. Also I think this OS is great for using QNX as the base seeing as though i run QNX now and again and am very impressed with it. Mon, 04 Feb 2002 21:45:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? >>> Liam Proven "We don't need to be told about AmigaOS."

The package includes AmigaOS 3.9 why wouldn`t people want to know what they buy? You think everyone knows the feature OS 3.9 provides already?

Also 95% of you state as missing is actually written about in the review! Are you sure you have actually read it? ;-)

Maybe you didn`t like to have the background information included. I personally wouldn`t have wanted it any other way. I would like to see more high quality articles like these. :-)) Mon, 04 Feb 2002 21:47:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? Two different products. One intended for the army of die hards, bound to eventually fade out - only verbally supported by AInc. The other (DE) is what AmigaInc are actually working on, the product with a future.

Its like comparing a future version of DOS 8.0 with .NET.




AInc need to work **faster**. Mon, 04 Feb 2002 23:34:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? >> The problems lay in the fact that the strength of the Amiga was not just the OS, but the hardware

>Yes the performance benefit of future Amiga platforms compared to modern >systems will only come from better AmigaOS performance. Nowadays it is >impossible to do the same with regard hardware as compared to the revolution >Amigas caused in 1985. Just look at the size companies producing graphic >chipsets nowadys. It is impossible to both create better chipsets and also >develop a new powerful AmigaOS simultaniously.

So then what is the point here? Basically Amiga hardware can not be any
better than what is available already you mean.

>> Nowadays though, even if you had an Amiga OS computer that was PPC based and
>> fast as hell...what software would you run?

>First of all the new PPC AmigaOS includes a powerful integrated 68k emulator >(By Haage&Partner). So software working correctly on AmigaOS XL should work >just fine with these new PPC based systems as well.

So basically you can run the 15 year old Amiga software. Games making up
the large portion of them. Can't you just run an Amiga emulator on a PC
or use an old Amiga for that?

>Secondly Hyperion Entertainment has stated that alot of effort is being made >to make sure that the AmigaOS stays compatible with currently available PPC >software. Their own PPC titles currently available, HereticII, Shogo and >Freespace should be able to work on the new OS. They are sure that eventual >problems (if there are any) can be easily fixed with only simple patches. >Similarly cuurently available professional PPC applications should be able to >function without problems or will be portable to the new platform without much >effort. Hyperion will also port RealSoft 3D (a very popular Amiga program a >decade ago) to the new platform and their Amiga game port of SiN is already >finished, but is being held back until new powerful hardware is released in >combination with AmigaOS 4.0. The Hyperion guys are very talented for example >in their spare time they ported QuakeII in just a matter of days and it will >surely be in available in a stable form by the time the new hardware and OS >are available. (The Quake II source was only recently GPLed). Hyperion also >own the Amiga rights to many other entertainment titles including Soldier of >Fortune, Majesty and Worms: Armageddon.

And basically some games that have been ported over to the Amiga that are
readily available for the PC.

This is what I am talking about. There is no longer any Killer App for the
Amiga like the Genlock and there is no way to make hardware that is more
capable than what is found in MACs and PCs. So why to we need to resurrect
a platform that 100 people in the world are going to buy? Hell even
the MAC is just in single digit percentage of user space. I think that
its kinda a waste of time, despite how cool the Amiga OS was. There
is just no real purpose anymore. Lets be realistic people and put our
energy into projects that are really going to make a difference.

Dano. Tue, 05 Feb 2002 00:10:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? Dano:

So, you don't like it. I do. And I'll never use Linux, as it won't ever compare. Tue, 05 Feb 2002 01:12:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? >Compare it to any competitors: UAE, Fellow, AiaB, AmigaForever.

Aiab, and AmigaForever Are just UAE. Tue, 05 Feb 2002 02:07:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? Dano:

>So basically you can run the 15 year old Amiga software. Games making up
>the large portion of them. Can't you just run an Amiga emulator on a PC
>or use an old Amiga for that?

You're forgetting that most Amigans aren't really interested in playing old games and using 15 year old apps. Quite the contrary is in fact the case.

AmigaOS4 is just a temporary step, like emulating 68k on PowerMac's were, towards the real deal: AmigaOS 5. AmigaOS 4 is supposed to give a stable base for running PPC based code within AmigaOS as well as developing all the necessary extras (3D, sound, Virtual Memory, Memory Protection, GUI-streamlining) towards maturity, preparing to go for OS 5 during this development time.

Most crucial is the final let-go of AmigaOS 4 from the old Amiga hardware, which all previous version still depends on. This opens up the possibility to run AmigaOS4 on almost any PPC-based open hardware.

In time AmigaDE and AmigaOS 4 will "meld" together. Ultimately the AmigaOS as we know it will run in a sandbox enviroment on OS 5, switching places with the current role of AmigaDE. We'll still be able to run *current* AmigaOS apps, but OS 5 apps will be primary focus.
AmigaOS 5 will provide server side services, whereas AmigaDE will provide client-side stuff. It's a client OS for your PDA, set-top box, cellphone, fridge, whatever. Together they'll run your home network, providing you with digital content on as many devices that contain a CPU as possible.

So much for nostalgia, huh? :-) As you can see, it's not only about satisfying current Amiga users. It's the preparation for the coming Amiga users. If all goes well, a few more than "a hundred" people will be using Amiga-apps within a couple of years...

Try reading the Amiga World Magazine issues on Amiga.com as well as their technical updates which come once in a while. They show you how it all fits together. ;-)

Zenja:

Amiga Inc. are working as fast as their business partners allow them. Tue, 05 Feb 2002 02:48:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? Could someone give an example of a system that runs well with both emulators ? Tue, 05 Feb 2002 14:40:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? Dano, you miss the point. Amiga is going to produce the best OS ever. This website is called OSNews which is covering alternative operating systems. In your view all that work on alternative OSes is just for nothing as Windows already exists. Be a little more open minded will ya...

Also there are lots of PPC professional applications available for PPC Amigas. All the Amiga game players have moved on to Windows or own a playstation. On the Amiga you could boot straightly into games from CDs and diskettes, the gamers are the ones currently using Amigas as they never grew attached to the OS as they could bypass it. Tue, 05 Feb 2002 15:06:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? > Could someone give an example of a system that runs well with both emulators?

What I gather from friends and this article a very good AmigaOS XL system would contain.

- AMD Athlon processor
- Matrox G450
- Soundblaster 128 PCI
- RTL-8029 compatible networking card
- PS/2 mouse Tue, 05 Feb 2002 15:18:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? NeoWolf >>> For example I find myself doubting it'd have support for things like USB and maybe even CD-RW drives as well as DVD and such ( as well as QNX considering they appear to run together seemlessly? ).

As the article states Amithlon allows you to write CDs (so does support CD-burners) and AmigaXL does`t. Also USB devices working on QNX RtP will work under AmigaXL as well. DVD players are supported but the article says that DVD playback is only available for PPC Amigas and therefor can`t be used on these emulators, since they don`t emulate PPC code. Tue, 05 Feb 2002 15:29:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? > "Could someone give an example of a system that runs well with both
emulators? What I gather from friends and this article a very good
AmigaOS XL system would contain. - AMD Athlon processor - Matrox
G450 - Soundblaster 128 PCI - RTL-8029 compatible networking card -
PS/2 mouse"

That's pretty close to the system I assembled, which is working well.
I used a cheap graphics card with a TNT2 chip, and an Adaptec card for
SCSI drives taken from existing Amigas.

The only reason to specify a 500MHz processor is that running an
emulation effectively halves the CPU speed, so a 233MHz CPU will give
you only a 116MHz Amiga. That speed increase would hardly be worth the
money. A 500MHz CPU will give you a faster Amiga than any currently
available.

Personally, I would advise 1.4GHz upward. This is routine for PCs
nowadays. Likewise, the minimum RAM is 64 Megs, but with 512 Megs
being so cheap now, why use less ?

There's no need to sell the OS short by using outdated hardware.

If you have an old PC, it would be better used as a print server or a
router. Tue, 05 Feb 2002 15:44:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? For PC users like Dano... there is no need for anything other than Word/Excel/Powerpoint. Little does he know that in Universities around the world, Linux, Unix and Mac OSes are more common than Windows. The most printed products have been created on a Mac and output via a Unix Server... Stability Dano... that is something that every OS offers over your wide selection of Windows OSes (3.1/95/98/ME/2000/NT/XP/CE). I know I manage a farm of servers which are mixed... RedHat Linux, Sun Solaris(Unix), Mac OS X, NT and 2000. NT's failures keeps me running back into the coldroom! Tue, 05 Feb 2002 15:56:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? > OK, I'm sold. Now where can I obtain these products in the U.S.?
>
> d@

http://www.softhut.com/cgi-bin/test/Web_store/web_store.cgi?page=ca... Tue, 05 Feb 2002 19:32:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? I am very interested in the Amiga and am interested in trying this product. How up-to-date is the Amiga free software scene? I am a BeOS fan and am looking for an alternative. If the Amiga OS is as powerful as people say it could do as a replacement.

Is there a web browser? Office App (I imagine that the Word export feature on the WP mentioned is out of date now)? DVD Playback?

Web/Office/DVD's and programming is all I use my PC for (aside from trying out countless OS's). If it can do this I may invest. Tue, 05 Feb 2002 19:49:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? > Long live the Amiga!!!

The Amiga was THE best computer made, incredibly way ahead of it's time (the Mac only managed to catch up 10 years later, and Wintel has yet to) ... but that was in another millennium.

Unfortunately the Amiga died many, many, many years ago, thanks to Commodore's hopeless marketing and inept management (a "business style" almost followed by Apple), followed by MANY utter failures to resurrect / continue it which were marred by simialr problems.

It ain't coming back and it's ridiculous (bordering on insanity) to think even for a minute that it can. Any new computer released now would be an "Amiga" in name only, owing nothing to it's illustrious predecessor, and even then it would have to be impossibly super "insanely great" to make enough of a market share for any intelligently run company to bother with.

Yes, Wintel machines are a complete joke and the much better Mac is overly expensive (and currently verging on the weird side on design), but it's time to let Amiga rest in peace - still with us in great memories of days gone by.


.................. R.I.P .................
................ Amiga ................
........... 1980 - 1994 ...........
. Gone, but not forgotten .

:,o| Tue, 05 Feb 2002 23:17:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? >>For PC users like Dano... there is no need for anything other than Word/Excel/Powerpoint. Little does he know that in Universities around the world, Linux, Unix and Mac OSes are more common than Windows. The most printed products have been created on a Mac and output via a Unix Server...

PC USer? I own 5 Amigas, 5 PCs running a mix of Windows, OS/2, and Linux?
Still think that my range is limited?

>> Stability Dano... that is something that every OS offers over your wide selection of Windows OSes (3.1/95/98/ME/2000/NT/XP/CE). I know I manage a farm of servers which are mixed... RedHat Linux, Sun Solaris(Unix), Mac OS X, NT and 2000. NT's failures keeps me running back into the coldroom!

Who is arguing that? But doesn't stability come from Unix systems now,
especially in network-space? No one has answered the question, what is the
killer app for the Amiga OS, besides the fact that its neat to create a
"better OS"?

Everyone knows that the Genlock and the Video Toaster were the killer apps
for the old Amiga....

Dano. Tue, 05 Feb 2002 23:18:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? > Long live the Amiga!!!

The Amiga was THE best computer made, incredibly way ahead of it's time (the Mac only managed to catch up 10 years later, and Wintel has yet to) ... but that was in another millennium.

Unfortunately the Amiga died many, many, many years ago, thanks to Commodore's hopeless marketing and inept management (a "business style" almost followed by Apple), followed by MANY utter failures to resurrect / continue it which were marred by simialr problems.

It ain't coming back and it's ridiculous (bordering on insanity) to think even for a minute that it can. Any new computer released now would be an "Amiga" in name only, owing nothing to it's illustrious predecessor, and even then it would have to be impossibly super "insanely great" to make enough of a market share for any intelligently run company to bother with.

Yes, Wintel machines are a complete joke and the much better Mac is overly expensive (and currently verging on the weird side on design), but it's time to let Amiga rest in peace - still with us in great memories of days gone by.


.................. R.I.P .................
................ Amiga ................
........... 1980 - 1994 ...........
. Gone, but not forgotten .

:,o| Tue, 05 Feb 2002 23:18:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? Dave:

Is there a web browser?

There are several reasonable browsers. AWeb is the one which comes standardly with AmigaOS. Although when using AmigaXL you could also get Opera for QNX RtP as these two work together pretty well.


> Office App (I imagine that the Word export feature on the WP mentioned is out of date now)?

No it is not out of date. The version of AmiWrite included is fairly up to date. However the newest version also supports FinalWriter and Wordworth Import. (Two very popular wordprocessors for the Amiga from the past)

> DVD Playback?

As the article stated, only if you own an Amiga with a PPC. They never ported it to 68k as it is too slow to handle decent quality playback. Although AmigaOS XL could easily handle it when running on modern day PCs it is not sure if it will get ported.

Web/Office/DVD's and programming is all I use my PC for (aside from trying out countless OS's). If it can do this I may invest Wed, 06 Feb 2002 15:57:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? Dave:

>I am very interested in the Amiga and am interested in trying this product. How up-to-date is the Amiga free software scene?

Up-to-date? I'm not sure what you mean. I currently buy commercial SW for my Amiga, developers need the money...
But you can check the latest "free" SW, for examble from here:
http://ftp.sunet.se/~aminet/recent.html

There are sites for all sorts of apps (like ports of games using SDL).

>I am a BeOS fan and am looking for an alternative. If the Amiga OS is as powerful as people say it could do as a replacement.

Amiga does have more applications, but perhaps not as much modern applications or support for modern HW.
Check these examples for the HW situation:
www.elbox.com
www.vgr.com

>Is there a web browser?
Yes, several. But they do not have all the bells and whistles of the latest netscape or IE. But Amiga browsers do have also some unique features.
For some web pages you need to spoof the name of the browser, for some other sites you might need to run netscape or IE in Macintosh emulation window. Or on PPC Linux (but Linux does not multitask with AmigaOS, not on Amiga). If you emulate Amiga on top of another OS, like on top of QNX (AmigaXL) you can use the browser of QNX.
Later AmigaOS will capable to use also browsers for intent (Espial, etc.).

>Office App (I imagine that the Word export feature on the WP mentioned is out of date now)?

There are apps like AmigaWriter, PageStream, TurboCalc, etc. that might fill your need.
btw. What office apps does BeOS have?

And there are free tools to convert word documents and excel sheets. (not sure how good those are)

>Web/Office/DVD's and programming is all I use my PC for (aside from trying out countless OS's). If it can do this I may invest.

Go ahead and try Amiga, but do not throw away your current work tools...


Dano:

IMO: There are no "killer" apps currently.
For me the Amiga mainly is a nicer way to do things. In future AmigaDE will be totally different, but still so similarly nicer way to do things.

MacManiac:

>Unfortunately the Amiga died many, many, many years ago,
Define "dead", please.

IMO: Amiga is not dead, not "really" dead.
- Amiga Inc, the company, exists
- new applications/updates appear every now and then
- new games/game ports appear every now and then
- new HW appear every now and then
- amigas can use PC HW, new drivers appear every now and then
- new OS versions are released and developed (also a clone OS)
- new motherboards are being developed (also a clone motherboard)
- new future application layer / environment is being developed (HW and OS independent)

>thanks to Commodore's hopeless marketing and inept management
...
But Commodore is now dead, Amiga is free from it's dungeon.

>It ain't coming back
Not in it's previous form in the mainstream of desktop computers.
(at least not in the next few years)

>Any new computer released now would be an "Amiga" in name only, owing nothing to it's illustrious predecessor,

Why??
For me the Amiga has been more than the old HW, even more than the lovely OS. It's about better way of doing things, it is about MY WAY.

>and even then it would have to be impossibly super "insanely great" to make enough of a market share for any intelligently run company to bother with.

Amiga Inc is not going via the traditional way when they are going to take the "name" forward.
All I can say is: stay tuned !

>Yes, Wintel machines are a complete joke and the much better Mac is overly expensive (and currently verging on the weird side on design), but it's time to let Amiga rest in peace - still with us in great memories of days gone by.

For those who feel themself tired with Mac / Windoze, and perhaps want to experiment with something different, try out AmigaOSXL (or AmigaDE). You might even like it, but it really is a personal thing. Wed, 06 Feb 2002 17:06:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? > Amiga does have more applications, but perhaps not as much modern applications or support for modern HW.

AmigaOS (68k/PPC) also has more modern applications. The lack of software was the most important one why BeOS failed. Wed, 06 Feb 2002 17:19:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? I'd be interested in this package simply for the fact that I can consolidate my Amiga world with my PC into one box, which is what a lot of people have with multi-os systems. The Amiga is still my favorite platform, and as much as it pleases me to see the effort being put into these emulators people should realize there's no future for this system unless it conforms to the established status quo of modern-day pcs (main processor, gfx card etc...) Running the os native on the PPC will greatly help, especially if it could be installed on the Mac. This solution, as archaic as it is (two emulator systems? piggiback on qnx?) is realistically just a curiosity, not a viable solution for professionals. Wed, 06 Feb 2002 23:40:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? Dano!
Looak at www.audiolabs.it and try the demo of ProStationAudio. This is a modern program, that is worth to buy a modern PC with Amithlon or even old Amiga and use it as a base machine in professional Sound Studio. This gives you the solution, that can't windows program do and it is a big concurency to Mac based apps like ProTools, but much much cheaper. It works very good on Amithlon, that give PSA really good CPU power to manage multiple audio tracks with realtime effects. Thu, 07 Feb 2002 15:43:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? Amiga lives. I have created two successful dual boot setups already, the best uses Win98SE & QNX/AmigaXL with a BootMagic/PartitionMagic 4.0 boot up. Having used Amigas as my home computer since 1986 I am finally happy again.

Using QNX is cool too, since its Voyager browser runs Java applets! I do not know if this means Java applets run on the browsers in the Amiga screen, though. But it would not suprise me.

If anyone needs a copy of this AmiThlon/AmigaXL OS in the US, I purchased mine from my friend Marv Birkinbine of Maxximum Video Creations. His email is madmaxx@fiberpipe.com, and is still supporting Lightwave 3D and Toaster/Flyer systems, from here in Boise.

Enjoy it, I know I am. Fri, 08 Feb 2002 09:16:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? There`s an updated version of AmigaOS XL available at http://amigaosxl.haage-partner.de/index-e.html Fri, 08 Feb 2002 16:47:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? "It is impossible to both create better chipsets and also develop a new powerful
AmigaOS simultaniously."

I doubt. Jim Collas, as it seems, was close to it with their MMC, when Gateway/Gates?
wasted the achievements. BE was, too, but lacked heart and money.
No compromises, and the difference grows. Its a matter of money, yes, but you dont
need megablaster hyperspeed chipsets, and you dont need 900.000.000 Euro.
The other way round it is true-for "modern" crap OSes you need tons of megabytes,
hd space, and buses with weaker design clocked at brutal rates, just to make up
for overall inferior design.
A cool OS of QNX/BeOs style makes up a lot for "slower" buses and CPU with properly
designed hardware.
Take a close look at what neat details and tricks people put into amiga or other cool
boxes, and you will see, in my opinion, how much could be achieved with more
intelligence, instead of dimple minded brutal g/mhz force. (Which is almost all
"innovation" peecee technology consists of since years-more hz there, more hz here,
more data lines there.)
How sweet and smooth it would run, what a babieeh, blasphemic love for a machine
it would cause, people would collapse in front of it, cause "no time for meals".
You need talented engineers, as talented they were in 1984-1990 (Zorro III, Videoslot
etc.), but no prob, they are there. A good heap of money. Some unbending intent to
do it. And a good loud laugh for Gates when he gets afraid someone might build a
proper system after all those years with ridiculous hilarious winbloat
pains.
But people lack courage, just as Gateway. It may be illusion, but who knows,
maybe they really had a good chance, and WASTED it.
In my view, its not that its not possible-its that people dont want it.
They dont want it, same as they dont want nuclear plants to be replaced by
wiser technology, just because they are afraid of some risk and expense that
could last for some years before real research pays off.
So they get what they deserve. Fri, 08 Feb 2002 18:27:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? Nowadays I use my Amiga only for games. I would like to use Amithlon so I could have all my Amiga games and PC games on one computer. Does anyone know how well games such as Genetic Species, Alien Breed 3D 2 (no RTG), Gloom Deluxe etc., and Breathless (this one also has no RTG)would run on a 1 ghz Athlon, 256 meg, Voodoo 5, Soundblaster Live? Or if they even run at all? (especially the nonRTG games) Sat, 09 Feb 2002 13:50:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? Dreamweaver:
Don't buy Amithlon ONLY for games - it is not designed for that.
However:

Modern RTG/AHI games should work great (although I find Genetic
Species keyboard controls are broken...). There is an unfinished
RTG version of AB3D2, but the menus do not work under
Amithlon.

You can run AmigaUAE really good under Amithlon, with suitable
tweaking, although it is not *perfectly* smooth. Pre-AGA games
are generally fine.

UAE: AGA games such as Breathless *may* run, but at reduced
gfx quality. Chunky pixels via AGA copper will NOT work, so
AB3D, Gloom & Xtreme Racing do NOT work. Tue, 12 Feb 2002 12:44:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? I would like to thank the Amiga community and all other interested people for their warm response to my article.

I`m sorry that I was not able to respond to all the emails! The positive enthusiasm makes writing Amiga community articles very rewarding. :-) Fri, 15 Feb 2002 17:13:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments