http://www.osnews.com/story/7736/KDE_3_3_Beta1_Experiences Exploring the Future of Computing en-us Copyright 2001-2009, David Adams adam+nospam@osnews.com Tue, 24 Nov 2009 19:09:14 GMT http://www.osnews.com/images/osnews.gif http://www.osnews.com http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? The KDE guys decided to hold off on kcontrol simplification until KDE 4.0. Also they decided not to change the default style until KDE 4.0. They didn't want huge interface changes every small release (like kde 3.1 changed the default style and had huge reorganization in kcontrol)

Qt 4.0 will provide more and exciting theming capabilities (can you say opengl?), so perhaps something even better than plastik will appear. Mon, 19 Jul 2004 18:36:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? Is this turned on (visible) by default? I certainly hope not, cause that would add unnecessary clutter. Even though I'm not one of the "Konqueror-is-way-to-cluttered" guys I think there should rather be a bit less buttons and bars (i mean as a *default*) than more.

I know that many people just don't know about "gg:" and other webshortcuts that can be entered into the adressbar - but should a better documentation and kind of a new user's guide be more usefull than a google bar?

Ah well I just hope it's not on by default... otherwise i'm fine with new features

Some screenshots would have been nice. Mon, 19 Jul 2004 18:37:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? Just cause it would be nice if there was QT version of a RSS/RDF client. Mon, 19 Jul 2004 18:44:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? KNewsticker? Konqueror newsticker sidebar? Kontact summary news plugin? aKregator? So much choice :-) Mon, 19 Jul 2004 18:47:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? Akregator is "ok". It is not perfect and it irritates me some times with some of its behaviors, but it is usable.
http://akregator.sourceforge.net/ Mon, 19 Jul 2004 18:47:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? I just hope the guys at Trolltech could fix something that annoys me a lot, the little spacing between the menu items in the windows...it gets really crammed sometimes! Some 3 or 4 pixels more wouldn't make it any bad. Mon, 19 Jul 2004 18:48:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? File a bug report about it. I have talked to the Trolltech CEO about the same thing a few months ago when I met him. Mon, 19 Jul 2004 18:50:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? Plastik in Beta 1 und Keramik in Beta 2 have bigger menu item spacing. Mon, 19 Jul 2004 18:53:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? > Akregator is "ok". It is not perfect and it irritates me some times

Well, how old is it? Two months? And it hasn't left "Beta" state yet. But it's developing fast! :-) Mon, 19 Jul 2004 18:55:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? > I have talked to the Trolltech CEO about the same thing a few months ago when I met him.

It's possible since Qt 3.3. And before you continue, toolbar separators now default to draw a line. Mon, 19 Jul 2004 18:57:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? Better don't start compiling Beta 1 if you don't want to anger yourself to repeat it with Beta 2 later this week. :-) Mon, 19 Jul 2004 19:03:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? You think I don't know?

Thing is, the *theme* needs to take advantage of the new API, it is NOT done automatically for all themes. And this IS an issue, because 99% of the themes out there (including the KDE default themes included) most probably won't take advantage of it.

Plastik used to work with the new API (I worked with its developer a few months ago about it), however newer versions don't seem to take advantage of it anymore. Mon, 19 Jul 2004 19:04:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? There is exactly one KDE default theme and if would care to read the comments you would know that 100% of "them" take advantage of it. And Plastik (of KDE 3.3) takes advantage of it, what are you talking about? Mon, 19 Jul 2004 19:09:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? they decided not to change the default style until KDE 4.0. They didn't want huge interface changes every small release
I understand them not wanting the look not to change constantly, though I still hope they think about it again and take the plunge with Plastik for 3.3 Final. Many distributions seem to make it the default already - if they aren't even using completely other (and sometimes not bug free) styles... somehow I have the feeling nobody realy wants to see Keramik... Even the guys I show Knoppix to at times are like "ugh that looks strange"...
So it wouldn't be that much of a change for many people anyway.

Qt 4.0 will provide more and exciting theming capabilities (can you say opengl?), so perhaps something even better than Plastik will appear.If it won't be Plastik I hope it's something similarly clean, simple (or 'flat' like in 'unlike Keramik'). Though a 3D accelerated KWin (dropshadows, smoot exposé like window management) and a "3D" enhanced plastik would really make KDE 4.0 a very nice thing.

I just hope the guys at Trolltech could fix something that annoys me a lot,...
There are things I hope get fixed as well - like the inability to move a horizontal scrollbar when there is no vertical scrolbar in a window... think of MultiColumn View inside Konqueror or the Open/Save dialog (in a directory with a lot of files). Mon, 19 Jul 2004 19:14:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? First of all, I suggest you be a bit more polite.

Secondly, when I talk about "default theme", I am talking about the shipped themes.

Regarding Plastik, I meant that versions of 6 months ago took advantage of it, but the current stable KDE version doesn't anymore. Mon, 19 Jul 2004 19:15:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? "Just cause it would be nice if there was QT version of a RSS/RDF client."

Try akregator ( http://www.kde-apps.org/content/show.php?content=12779 ). It's beta (and only a scant above two months old) and has crashes and some unexplained behavior, but it works fine and is a lot faster than the other Linux RSS readers (straw, liferea) in terms of loading large lists. Mon, 19 Jul 2004 19:17:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? I've tried many Linux RSS readers and none of them were ready for prime time. Some were Java-based and creep along lethargically. At least one has a built-in dependency on an extinct version of Mozilla. Almost all of them botch displaying HTML on their own and almost all of them don't seem to know how to re-use an open browser.

Choice is fine, but not if the options are half-baked. Mon, 19 Jul 2004 19:18:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? Lots of polish, few real big new features, but it's all the better becasue I want to see work on DKE 4 start faster.

I also hope that the spacing issue in DE gets resolved. I never really noticed it before Eugenia pointed it out, but after that I realized that it was very important in presenting a clean and welcoming desktop. Mon, 19 Jul 2004 19:24:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? > because 99% of the themes out there (including the KDE default themes included) most probably won't take advantage of it.

You're *wrong*. The default/shipped themes by KDE all take advantage of it in Beta 2. Mon, 19 Jul 2004 19:37:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? > You're *wrong*. The default/shipped themes by KDE all take advantage of it in Beta 2.

What? Was it changed upstream in KStyle or in QCommonStyle? I think that was the correct thing to do in the first place :-) Mon, 19 Jul 2004 19:45:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? It's changed in KStyle. Mon, 19 Jul 2004 19:55:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? does kde have an HIG? or even some sort of rough usability guidelines? been reading alot on such things recently, i find that not only does it give a greater insight into the various environments, but even the differenvces can tell you alot about HCI in general. Mon, 19 Jul 2004 20:11:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? >does kde have an HIG? or even some sort of rough usability guidelines?
Menu > Utilities > Desktop

There's quite a lot there but maybe you were not asking that question Mon, 19 Jul 2004 20:30:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? There are general guidelines though they arent called HIG's like gnome

http://developer.kde.org/documentation/design/ui/
http://developer.kde.org/documentation/standards/kde/style/basics/ Mon, 19 Jul 2004 20:30:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? HIG has not seem to of helped Gnome a lot. I would rather use KDE over Gnome any day. Mon, 19 Jul 2004 20:31:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? HIG has not seem to of helped Gnome a lot. I would rather use KDE over Gnome any day.

It has. Gnome has a more 'integrated' feeling. Although I like both DE's I really hope that KDE will use a sort of HIG in the future.

Another thing: I don't want to sound spoiled, but does anyone have an idea when we can expect kde 4.0? (I mean it seriously, I don't know if it's next year or later)

OT: how do I make the quoted txt appear in italic. I doesn't work when I use tags like [i] Mon, 19 Jul 2004 20:54:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? hehe, plz forget the last sentence. I saw the italics tags in the preview, but now it doesn't appear in the final comment. I get it Mon, 19 Jul 2004 20:55:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? > HIG has not seem to of helped Gnome a lot. I would rather use KDE over Gnome any day.

Are you serious? Have you ever used the pre-HIG GNOME 1.x? It erm, *sucked* compared to GNOME 2.x. Just look at the ugly UI of many gtk 1.x apps.

However, I don't think KDE needs a formal HIG as much as GNOME did since much of it's standards being hardcoded *inside* of the libraries. For example, the GNOME HIG specifies margins for many dialogs. The KDE libraries do this automatically for you ( http://developer.kde.org/documentation/library/3.1-api/kdeui/html/c... )

That is why to some people's eye, including mine, KDE feels more standardized and intregated than GNOME does, despite not having a large formal HIG.

The only problem with this approach is for applications that don't use kdelibs. It's much easier for an application like firefox, for example to start using GNOME HIG than conform to basic KDE standards. Mon, 19 Jul 2004 21:01:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? "Another thing: I don't want to sound spoiled, but does anyone have an idea when we can expect kde 4.0? (I mean it seriously, I don't know if it's next year or later) "

kde 4.0 will be based on qt 4.0 which is only released on late first quarter of 2005. there probably will be a couple of kde 3.x releases before that but they arent likely to include major new features Mon, 19 Jul 2004 21:12:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? Rough bet from my perspective is probably next summer or fall. The intial alpha of qt4 was just released and once the devs have sent 3.3 on its way, work will begin on kde4. If the move from kde 2.x to kde 3.0 is any indication (the major work being background technology improvements) it won't be an insane amount of time..... Mon, 19 Jul 2004 21:22:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? KDE just keeps getting better and better.

It also seems to get faster and more snappy with each release. Just migrated my last desktop from other DE's (XFCE, Gnome) to KDE, simply because of the speed and the look of it. It just seems to work better for me than the alternatives - though don't get me wrong - I love Fluxbox too.

Not trolling, but everytime I use Gnome I find it feeling more sluggish. Perhaps it's time for the Gnome team to work on speeding things up before adding^H^H^H^H^H^H removing features. Mon, 19 Jul 2004 22:47:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? "I said a few years ago that we would be rivalling the top commercial applications in a few years and here we are. Now I'm saying we will be blowing them away next year, and we will introduce technologies that will revolutionize web development."

-- Eric Laffoon, Quanta Plus project manager

Hi,

Everyone knows of "competitive advantage", but "collaborative advantage" is more applicable when it comes to making great software. The Quanta Plus core development team needs to be able to make it to aKademy http://conference2004.kde.org/ Now is our opportunity to collaborate to help make this happen.

As far as I know the core team have never had the funds to meet in person. This is their time to finally do that. They could spend a week and a half together and brainstorm how to improve Quanta.

The project manager, Eric Laffoon, is struggling to get the money together (the entire project is financed largely out of his own pocket) and if he can't do it they will not be able to make it. So now is truly an important time to make a donation.

It's easy to donate, and even small donations will make a big difference:

http://quanta.sourceforge.net/main1.php?actfile=donate

I've made a donation today... I hope others will too.

Damon Tue, 20 Jul 2004 01:19:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? I wish that you could drag windows from on pager desktop to another like in XFCE. I guess I should have a look at bugs.kde.org to see if it's already a wish.. Tue, 20 Jul 2004 05:47:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? Oh yes! That would be awesome! Tue, 20 Jul 2004 05:56:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? "... On the negative side, this means that I could not test how well 3.3 ports old settings to new settings. Oh, well."
What I do is in between. I rename ~/.kde and copy back bookmarks and addressbook into the new ~/.kde created after logging out and in. The rest, like customizing the menu, sizing windows and configuring KMail I do again. It takes only a sec. I also backup ~/Mail.

"Also, everything feels more snappier and quicker"
Agree. It's noticeable.

"Konqueror has Google Search Toolbar (like Mozilla and Firefox's Google Search bars)."
Why? What's wrong with "gg:"? If the problem is moving the fingers from the mouse to the keybord then another solution is maybe to turn the "location:" label widget into a into a pulldown menu widget that contains favorites like "location:","gg:","wi:","wp:",etc.

"Here is a screen shot with Plastik window decoration with these new buttons."
Nice. It'd been nice with a few more screenshots from other areas. Tue, 20 Jul 2004 06:23:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? Use kpager, only the minipager-applet doesn't have it. Tue, 20 Jul 2004 06:31:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? well but kpager doesn't go into the ktaskbar so nice and has too many features I don't need. I really miss the fact that I can't drag'n'drop a window from one window to another in the pager. Tue, 20 Jul 2004 06:46:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? You might wanna take a look at

http://www.kde-look.org/content/show.php?content=13771 Tue, 20 Jul 2004 07:16:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? Why is everybody so obsessed with the google toolbar?

I mean konqueror has had the same behaviour for many years if you set a "Default Search engine" in "Web Shortcuts".
Its even easier than the google bar, since you can enter your search in the default location bar, and even have the advantage of auto completion if you want to do a simmilar search.

So is there a possible to disable the google bar? Tue, 20 Jul 2004 07:52:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? > So is there a possible to disable the google bar?

Settings/Configure Toolbars... Tue, 20 Jul 2004 08:07:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? I have not implemented the "to top" and "to bottom"
buttons because I can't think of a good button graphics
for them. I'm sure in the future more decorations will
support the new buttons. I don't think they are meant to be shown all together, howver. The "shade" button could
replace the "minimize" one, for example, if the user so chooese. Tue, 20 Jul 2004 08:31:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? The widget theme, I mean. I use B2 as my window decoration.
I quite dislike both the widget style and the window decoration of "Plastik". They look like a Windows (the later one, what's it XP?) ripoff, and are flat and dull.
They have very little contrast, which does not help a bit.
Keramik widget stand out better. Tue, 20 Jul 2004 08:38:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? I am using the OO.org build with KDE styled widgets... in 3.2 it worked perfectly, now OO.org crashes... Tue, 20 Jul 2004 08:51:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? Let's face it - Keramik looks a bit toyish,childish,too loud,bluffware,non-pro. Simple clean lines and colors are often more attractive. Just think about for example modern furniture. That's why Plastik is preferred by many. SuSE 9.1 default is "Thin Keramik" which is Keramik at reduced volume allthough not as clean as Plastik. Tue, 20 Jul 2004 08:57:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? I think if MS Style "Metalic Shades" gets ported to KDE, would be a very good idea. Metalic Shades for XP is a very pro and easy and soft to look at style. Tue, 20 Jul 2004 12:43:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? I always wonder if there does excist a person who actually likes keramik. I use kde mostly but I'v never understand the devs for choosing keramik as the default look. Plastik is so much more proffesional.

The crystal iconset is great though... Tue, 20 Jul 2004 13:28:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? It looks better than Gnome 2.6. Tue, 20 Jul 2004 14:26:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? amaroK is not part of KDE 3.3 but has to be installed seperately. Tue, 20 Jul 2004 15:28:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? @Anonymous (IP: 61.95.184.---) - Posted on 2004-07-19 20:30:57
Thank you, this is pretty much what i was looking for

@neutron
yeah, i think it makes a difference too. id like to point out that gnome isnt the only one with a human interface guideline, both apple and microsoft have one too.

@anon
kde uses the windows approach in that regard, which has its pluses and a few minuses(mostly that as soon as you leave or change apis your like a babe in the woods, not an insult or troll cause thats where i was about two months ago). a good HIG cannot be replaced by a component framework and common dialogues, because the focus of a good HIG should be user interaction rather then just look. what kde seems to have is a component framework and some usability guidelines which is more then enough, if developers read and understand em ;-) Tue, 20 Jul 2004 18:15:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? I dont understand why the google search bar is so great. Now you have another bar using up space that you have to click on seperately from the location bar. It's way more convenient to search directly from the location bar which konqueror has been able to do for a while.
I hate the firefox google toolbar, its a waste of space when I already have a perfectly good location bar to use.

I have konqueror set up to search google for things that are not addresses, alternately you can use the web keywords like: gg: you search here
to search for stuff. Way better approach than having a seperate textbox Tue, 20 Jul 2004 18:24:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? It sounds like Longhorn will have a hard time competing with that... KDE is bliss even right now and getting better every day, while I continue to hate XP to the fullest extent possible :==) and don't think those developers over at M$ have the guts of doing it right with Longhorn this time.
Fd.o, kdrive, fresco (oh and yeah, Sun's Java Desktop thingie) and all those efforts look real promising, I am looking forward for some major eye candy to come. Oh, and I just *love* my Gentoo, which we can expect to have a great future aswell (Anaconda and Catalyst are cool beginnings; hope in some time Joe User can install Gentoo with optimisations and do his own LiveCD with his own chosen software...)
Goooo OSS, goo!
cya 'round folks
P.S.: My site is off for the time being, but in the sake of correctness.. Tue, 20 Jul 2004 20:55:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments