A month after the release of Fedora Core 3 (FC3) we have a pretty good idea over its evolution since its first release last year. In fact, we found FC3 to be its best release yet.FC3 comes with either a DVD or a 4 CD-set. Installation hasn’t change much from previous releases, however FC3 has a problem that previous releases didn’t (on this laptop): the installation screen would stay all black if we didn’t specifically add a “vga=773” to the boot manager.
FC3 includes remote desktop support, Gnome 2.8, KDE 3.3, GCC 3.4 and SELinux works much better now than when it was first introduced last March. I was happy to see Helix Player included, but there was no gnome menu item for it. I had to hunt for it…
Among the coolest new software included is the uber-modern Howl (zeroconf stuff) and gnome-volume-manager (via dbus/hal). Firefox is included too, along with NetworkManagerInfo (see screenshot) which is able to scan for wireless networks near you and allow you to change your active connection on the fly (just like Mac OS X’s menubar wifi utility). This FC3 utility is cool but it doesn’t really work correctly yet as it still has some bugs left in it.
Despite that, I found FC3 to be the most bug-free version to date. Performance is not great, but at least on a modern PC, FC3 will perform adequately and feel reliable.
There are a lot of updates almost daily and up2date seems to work better than in the past, it doesn’t get frozen forever anymore. “Upgrading” FC3 to add DVD, Java, Flash and mp3 support was very easy after following some easy instructions and installing some upgrades from FreshRPM via apt-get and Synaptic.
After placing all these pieces of the puzzle together, Fedora Core 3 has shown some good evolution signs which should satisfy both knowledgable readers and newbies. I am not a fan of RPM because it’s way too picky on library version numbers, however if you only need a specific set of applications and you feel the need to install new stuff all the time, Fedora should be a good choice.
FC3 was tested on LinuxCertified’s LC2430 laptop.
I was happy to see Helix Player included, but there was no gnome menu item for it. I had to hunt for it..
For me It’s in Applications -> Sound & Video
It’s the 4th icon down.
BTW I like that screenshot, I’m going to do the same thing with the task bar now instead of the default.
The icon is *not* available here, it doesn’t show on my menus, while the app is installed. Please note that this is a new installation, not really tweaked or anything. I find it weird too.
What are your experiences with Fedora Core 3 running on a laptop? For me the power management (with ACPI) is an absolute nightmare. ‘Suspend to RAM’ works but won’t come out of it and ‘Suspend to disk’ does absolutely nothing. This is on a Toshiba laptop. Has anyone else had this problem and no of a quick fix? I tried recompiling the kernel and adding the vanilla ACPI patches but I can’t find the kernel-source RPM on the 4 CDs. Help!!!
What would you say would be a faster distro that also was in the same class as fedora?
Strange, maybe one of us upgraded it from a 3rd party repo or its a bug.
On a side note the biggest bug ridden peice of software I’ve got on Fedora is Firefox or should I say Firefix. This thing crashes more than I can remember IE crashing in the win98 days.
Shipped horribly broken and I’m kinda P.O’d about it being default if It’s so unstable.
i did a clean install and the icon was indeed there.
hmm… not sure about your firefox issues. i’ve had no problems whatsoever.
If you don’t like fedora’s slow boot disable RHGB (Red Hat’s graphical boot), turn off services and if thats not fast enough cause you’re still running on a 400mhz box or something then also disable RedHats update notification, selinux and use XFCE instead of gnome or KDE. Fedora is only slow cause it does more. other distro’s don’t have secret speed hacks in the kernel nobody else gets (no gentoo arguments pls), its just as simple as turning things off you don’t need then it runs like everyone else for the most part.
Okay maybe it was just me then with the FF crashing, Cause I test selinux in strict mode so alot of bugs of mine could be related to that. I should attempt to be more informed first as to what exactly is causing the crashes but mainly they’d be clicking on certain java links or .rm (real media) links (some rpm ones too)
i’ve been reluctantly using mandrake as my desktop/laptop for a long time now. every so often i try the latest big thing – ubintu, suse 9.2, gentoo. fedora, with all its support and heavy hitting developers behind it, is a well engineered system … under the hood. BUT, its desktop experience is secondary.
why do i go back to mandrake, despite its flakey engineering, because it is less hassle. it allows me to create and install to xfs/jfs/resiserfs partitions. federa 3 doesn’t. mandrake lets me use the mouse, nipple and the touchpad on my dell 8600. i use xfce, and now fedora includes it, pushes it even. but fedora’s xfce menu’s don’t reflect the software installed – big usabulity issue. i know i coould fix it but i don’t have time.
as ugly as mandrake’s themes and icons are – fedoras bluecurve is verging on the windows XP fischer-price-my-first-windows theme.
i know there is debate about objective results – but mandrake is suppsoed to be i586 optmised. and it feels fatser. it boots faster. apps load faster. windows move snappier. it mounts ntfs – last time i check fedora and redhat they didn’t do this withjout additional module installation. not a newbie friendly thing.
and of course i want my xmms to play MP3 files – fedora doesn’t do this. nor does it make it easy to “click here to voluntarily download proprietary options: mp3, dvdcss, flash. acroread, etc etc”.
the whole rpm/yum/apt/apt-rpm is confusing. they probably work – but i’m not ging to try in case yum tries to corrupt rpm’s database and apt overrites someone elses rpm state. keep it simple. include the best option. so it may be that urpmi and rpm are inferior – but for many purposes they are simple, reassuring and you get community support. and for me they work; urpmq, urpmq -y for fuzzier searches, urpmq -il for big infos …
someone suggested the kernel source rpm is not included in fc3? this is a mistake. mandrake did this recently for 10.0 i think. and what a backlash. how do you recompile. how do you compile 3rd party modules against your kernel? there maybe ways and magic (eg kernel-headers or kernel-stripped) but keep-it-simple-stupid.
but for a server, i want the performance and scalability of the linux kernel itself, and the associated high performance filesystems like xfs. so i use slackware. until recently the BSDs didnt give me this performance.
i couldn’t find any info on fedora core 3’s cpufreqd for frequency scalng to save power on laptops. madrake’s just works ™. good stuff.
and in a defualt install, the commands to get proper x.org window transparent aren’t there.
Can it play realmedia, or do you have to download and install Realplayer?
Can’t you just install the required codecs?
“I am not a fan of RPM because it’s way too picky on library version numbers”
No. Package formats are not picky on library version numbers. The people who make the packages are (or may be). You can make dependencies as general or as specific as you like.
tech_user: you can change the MDK default theme, of course. I agree that it’s rather ugly. I use lighthouseblue GTK theme and simple metacity theme; looks nice.
processor architecture-specific optimisation is massively overemphasised, imho. when was the last time your system hit 100% CPU usage?
Use fedora core 3 along of a month, no have stock kernel compile w/atheros drivers (wireless lan) and other issue like latest nvidia drivers… so try Ubuntu Linux and work really close to my idea of a robust operating system, clean,fast and nice!… and 15% more faster *in my case…!
in ubuntu work all of genome, totem play divx and more… the nautilus cd-burner work great!
can recommend 100%, take a look.
http://www.ubuntulinux.org
Does anyone else have an issue with the hidden link provided by the author for “RPM” in his statement “I am not a fan of RPM because it’s way too picky on library version numbers”? When clicked on I got the following URL: http://www.realtimepm.com/default.aspx?track=29 instead of the URL: http://www.rpm.org/
Great review, Eugenia. I especially liked the recognition of subjective factors, like the fact that while Fedora isn’t a speed demon, it does run perfectly fine on a reasonably modern PC. This is opposed to the usual comments on issues like this from many reviewers whose Fedora reviews consist primarily of “Fedora doesn’t rock on my 200mhz P-II! RH is teh suX0r!!” What a refreshing change!
At some point, I think it’d be interesting to see an article from you outlining something like the top 10 things you think Fedora needs to do to make the most improvement.
I don’t feel like my opinion can carry much weight since I am very much the newbie to Linux, even though I’ve played with it for over a year and a half. whoami and -l are about the sum total of my command line experience.
I’ve used FC 1, 2, amd 3, and for me, Core 3 was the worst. Perhaps most of my problems come from my old hardware: a 1999 Dell Dimension XPS with a 450 P3. I had some issues with each release, but none so bad as Core 3. Put a disc in the optical drive and Nautalus would crash; attempt a spell check in Oo Writer and the entire system would grind to a halt and then lock. Firefox worked fine, and I could email, but that was about it. There were other quirks but I forget them now.
Thought I’d try Ubuntu. It was pretty nice, though the netwroking utility in Gnome 2.8 was a little inconsistent for me. And anything online was sloooooow for some reason. I’m going to give the new Progeny Debian 2 a try, and maybe Xandros 3 when it comes out, but I’ll probably go back to Fedora Core 2 and stay there for a while. I got the best (though not perfect) performance from it.
and in a defualt install, the commands to get proper x.org window transparent aren’t there.
As I understand it, true transparency is still pretty flaky (same deal with dropshadows). Besides, I don’t think any released metacity version supports it, though it might be different in CVS.
No, ACPI still doesn’t work properly. Suspend to RAM does work, but the laptop never wakes up properly.
I’ve got FC3 running on 2 machines here, one is my Presario 711 laptop and the other is a Athlon XP 2200+
On the laptop the install was a PITA, the GUI installer didn’t recognize the LCD display so it was impossible to use. Even using the text installer X still came up wrong and needed to have the config tweaked manually.
After install and updates with yum and a couple of reboots it started having problems with eggcups and nautilus. It ends up that prelink needed to be rerun.
These 2 issues would probably leave a newbie digging their eyes out. I will say that ACPI does seem to work.
On the desktop I had the same prelink problem and currently it won’t shut off the system power at shutdown (FC1 and 2 used to do this just fine).
xine on FC3 is noticably faster on the desktop, movies that previously (under FC1) had jerky pans and transitions are silky smooth with FC3. On the laptop the DVD playing has not improved noticably, but it may have other bottlenecks.
I’d rate it as a wash, some better points but on the laptop not detecting the LCD display is a show stopper for alot of new people.
Brian
>but on the laptop not detecting the LCD display is a show stopper for alot of new people.
Do you mean that it simply suggested 800×600 as default? This is what it did here too, but it’s normal. Detecting LCDs is not as easy as vesa-compliant crts. You simply go to the monitor dropdown menu in the installation and you tell it that you have an LCD screen, and so after that all supported resolutions are available to you. No reason for manual tweaking.
Just did two clean installs of FC3 and Helix player was indeed there where others said it was.
Well, I gotta say I love Fedora. And it’s not surprising considering I’ve been a long time fan of Red Hat, recognizing early on how well put together Red Hat is, and that the “rpm sucks” arguments just don’t hold weight given package managers like yum, uprmi, up2date, red carpet, apt, etc. But then despite my Red Hat bias if you will, Fedora 3 is garbage in my opinion. Don’t get me wrong, I say this as a long time Red Hat fan, but after coming off a wonderful experience following Mandrake cooker as a desktop for around 6 months (and this is mandrake cooker mind you) I really don’t like Fedora anymore. It’s not that it’s that much different mind you, it just doesn’t feel right this time around. My games don’t seem to work well anymore, my internet lags, popping in cds is more of a pain then they used to be, etc. Perhaps going with selinux by default is whats screwing me up, I suppose I’ll need to get back to everyone after I test out Fedora with selinux disabled, but for the time being, I really can’t recommend Fedora 3.
But then that brings me to the nonsense everyone keeps spewing on these boards about Ubuntu (sorry if I’m straying way off topic, but hey, I’m surely not the first here). Granted Ubuntu is Debian based, and so, if you’re familiar with Debian it’s pretty nifty I spose, but far from something as slick as the other Debian based desktops I like, Xandros for instance. And cmon now, I’ve been hearing that it boots faster then anything around. Granted that nobody aside from eugenia is as nuts about OS’s as me, but whoever keeps saying that is nuts. Ubuntu is no better than any other distro I’ve tried when it comes to booting. And better looking??? Anyone saying that has never seen a good desktop, good font, good theme, good anything in their life. Ubuntu is as ugly as any Debian based distro I’ve ever seen, or anything else for that matter.
is that the kernel shipped with it (and the updated one) don’t power off my box properly. neither do the RHEL beta kernels.
Java webstart does not work. It’s a compability problem with glibc. It doesn’t work with java v5 either. A workaround is to replace the javaws directory with that from blackdown – until the bug is fixed.
“Use fedora core 3 along of a month, no have stock kernel compile w/atheros drivers (wireless lan) and other issue like latest nvidia drivers… so try Ubuntu Linux and work really close to my idea of a robust operating system, clean,fast and nice!… ”
More like nvidia bugs with the use of kernel 2.6.9. AFAIK, Ubuntu comes with kernel 2.6.8 which does not expose the bug.
Tell me about it.
I tried to install it and, installer said it needed discs 1,2,3 After I had started the install it said it needed disc 4.
When I tried to play an mpeg Totem (I think) couldn’t play it, and error box kept popping up over and over and over again.
Needless to say I got rid of it.
One of my favorite distros I have used is PCLinuxOS.
Are you using Firefox 1.0 or are the problems with the RC? I believe that the prerelease version of Firefox that shipped with FC3 included a nasty JavaScript popup bug. This bug is gone in Firefox 1.0 and it no longer crashes like IE on Win98 (at least not for me).
I have seen a couple of crashes even with Firefox 1.0, but they involved having dozens of windows and several hundred tabs open. So it’s not perfect, but I can cope…
Sure – use mandrake if thats what you like – but please don’t spread misinformation.
– reg ‘xfs/jfs/resiserfs’ – yu can install xfs/reiserfs – don’t know about jfs. Redhat engineers rather not support these filesystem – so the install options are not provided upfront. (at installer boot – use “linux xfs”). And these filesystems don’t work with SELinux
– wrt optimization – the i386 packages are compiled with ‘-march=i386 -mtune=pentium4’
– rpm is the basic package manager and apt/yum/uprimi/up2date are tools on top of rpm. They provide similar service (user interface is slightly different)
– kernel-source [Please read release notes] kernel.rpm already pacakges the required build enviornment & header files required to compile extra modules – so the old kernel-source package isn’t necessary. If you need to build your own kernel – there is kernel.src.rpm
– fedora cpuspeed just works ™. If you need a bit more info – run ‘/usr/sbin/cpuspeed -help’
‘Suspend to RAM’ works but won’t come out of it and ‘Suspend to disk’ does absolutely nothing.
If APM were to work – use it. (by booting with kernel parameter ‘acpi=off’
SWSuspend (suspend to disk) is disabled in fedora as it is perceved unstable (there is a thread on this in fedora-devel-list)
ACPI is in flux in upstream kernel as well. (I guess the chages can trickle down in updated kernels)
No, there is nothing to be done. ACPI is broken for this BIOS in the latest 5-6 kernel versions, and APM is not supported.
Both should work – I’ve been using madwifi – without problems. There are precompiled modules also available from ATrpms repository.
And rpm.livna.org packages ‘nvidia’ modules – for easy use with FC3 kernel. (I don’t have nvidia graphics)
[/i]No, ACPI still doesn’t work properly. Suspend to RAM does work, but the laptop never wakes up properly.[/i]
What happens during wakeup?
On thinkpads -I noticed – the ‘recover from suspend’ key is changed from the ‘power’ button to ‘Fn’ button. I guess this scheme is more consistant with APM on this machine. (I continue to use APM)
There is a post today from the kernel developer on this issue..
http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-test-list/2004-December/msg00…
One could use APM as a workarround (if the hardware supports it)
is this still i386 optimized like redhat was? i used to be a slackware/redhat fan but i’ve used slack 100% (aside from xp) since redhat changed to fedora. why? fedora is SLLLOWWW
This OS seems to make a GREAT office PC. Its multimedia really isn’t all there, but wow… I had an old 450mhz P3 in my office that had Windows 98 on it and it sucked. I added some extra memory, wiped out the system, and put FC2 on it. It was okay, but after the upgrade to FC3, a lot of the kinks have really been wiped out. Everything just works so well.
As far as Ubuntu, I definitely like its multimedia features and stuff, but FC3 is still more stable for me.
-Kevin
Well – its supporsed to be optimized for Pentium4 (without mmx/sse instructions etc..)
The compiler options are “-O2 -g -pipe -m32 -march=i386 -mtune=pentium4 -O2”
i.e i336 instruction set – but instruction sheduling is tuned/optimized for pentium4.
I guess you can check gcc man pages for exactly what these optimizations do.
There have been discusions on this topic in fedora-devel-list – you might want to check it out.
FC3 has been a real toughie to install on a laptop dual boot Win XP without LBA.
Installation seems fine and both XP and FC3 can boot, only when you try making a ghost image of the partition, it will reveal FC3 has a faulty parted installer that overlaps your XP partition. It is a wonder that both partitions can still boot!
Considering that this problem was already prevalent in FC2 on some hardware, it is disappointing that it has not been fixed in FC3.
Nonetheless bug reported:
http://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id= 138866
http://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id= 138419
try that and se what Fedora has done for it, looks better, more stable and you can use fedora rpm`s for it. I must say as linux-magazine said; Fedora is where the experimential stuff goes
Too bad many people have problems with FC3. I only had to disable selinux since it is not compatible with my reiser filesystem. After that, everything worked perfect.
Perhaps they should do more quality control before shipping the finals.
I haven’t tried FC3, but have switched from my home ‘server’ (FC1) and my notebook (FC2) to Ubuntu, I have no regrets!
PS: Never liked the rpm management, so many troubles…
Fedora Core 3 seems quite useable.
By all means, do take the hassle to narrow down and report your problems to Bugzilla.
I’ve narrowed down two problems with yum, the package updater, submitted them, and they are fixed now:
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=140832
Don’t assume, as I did at first, that someone else has submitted the bugs. Check, report carefully, and all would benefit.
I really liked FC2 and was seriously looking forward to FC3. But I’ve found it incredibly flakey so far. I know this is the exact opposite of everyone else’s experience, but that’s just how it is for me.
I’ve had installation crashes, lots of application crashes, slow startup, CDs that refuse to eject, and all the sorts of random erratic behaviour that you’d normally associate with Windows in the bad old days.
I was going to move my wife’s laptop to FC3, but I’m rethinking it now. Perhaps I’ll also try Ubuntu, which certainly looks great.
Is there a way to enable menu editing in Fedora under Gnome?
I remember a time where RH was the precursor of what should and will be a Linux distrib.
Anyone remembering this good all time can only be desapointed by this awfull old fashioned distrib, going more in the politicly correct, than in trying new ways of developement.
For Linux future, the truth is definitivly…..ELSEWHERE!!!!
Let me see, with a clean install it doesn’t…
recognize my Netgear WG311 V2 wireless network card, so I’m stuck using connection sharing from my iMac.
Music CDs and DVDs aren’t automounted with the proper permissions to let my non-root account play them (are you kidding me?).
Rhythm Box doesn’t automatically update my music library when I rip songs to my library folder with Sound Juicer.
Yep, don’t see how this is at all a useful desktop for non-experienced Linux users who only want to check email, watch a DVD and listen to their music.
On a positive note, surfing the web was great… although for some reason Firefox gives an error when trying to install plugins automatically. Command lines are fun, even for those who don’t know how or want to use them.
Forgot to mention that while the anti-aliased fonts look nice, the kerning is absolutely terrible.
I was quite disappointed by core 3…
– no support for Atheros based wlan cards (madwifi drivers, other distributions support it)
– no clean unmounting of reiserfs (3.6) partitions
– the graphical bootup hangs on reiserfs errors (ugly in combination with the unclean unmounting)
– buggy selinux: the installation program(!) failed to create the user, the user/group-tools failed, too
– no 3d support for ATI radeon (ok, that’s ATI’s mistake, but other distributions have workarounds)
– smartd fails with my s-ata drives (but there are the right devices in the smartd.conf – not like core 2 where there was always just /dev/hda)
– the dual monitoring dialogue crashes with python error messages
I fixed the problems all by myself (besides 3d support) and like the distributions very much now. But in Core 2 I had much less problems.
“The icon is *not* available here, it doesn’t show on my menus, while the app is installed. Please note that this is a new installation, not really tweaked or anything. I find it weird too.”
I’d like to wake up in a world where issues like this are the only ones to worry about.
> For Linux future, the truth is definitivly…..ELSEWHERE!!!!
FC3 “uniq feature” :
– eggcups with DBUS
– remote desktop
– ext3 reservation
– ext3 resize online
– gcc 3.4
– SeLinux
– default installation use lvm2
– and more…
Only problem I’ve been having with this than with FC1 is with sound. On my AthonXP motherboard (VIA Based) the sound is kind of choppy. Other than that I made my own improvements to correct for speed and things like that.
You will maby find somewhere something done by and for RH, unfortunatly those listed do not have the exclusive for Fc3.
remote desktop (win,apple,debian..)
gcc3.4 (ubuntu…)
selinux (various distrib use it already and anyway do not work on fc3 with reiser)
ext3 reservation (IBM)…etc etc..
A single search wth google will help.
(I am even runing a Debian based dist with xorg without any prob)
My reference remain the same RH was a reference not anymore.
See all the techs going to Debian, or Gentoo to get the best of linux…
And speaking of end user if rpm was the reference for it’s simplicity it’s now a headack…(why use rpm then yum, then up2date or apt-get??…if someone can explain how it’s a simplification eachone getting its own repo? ).
http://shots.osdir.com/slideshows/slideshow.php?release=173&slide=1
FC3 have the bluecurve theme that i don’t like.
it is extremely slow to boot
the packages are over red hat policy and the community
can’t influence nothing on this side.
you can’t modify the menu
you must burn 3 cd every 6 month
apt-get dist-upgrade don’t work
the security is a joke,you haven’t proper support
vote 4
ubuntu have the best features in one cd only.
have 18 month free support for every release
is debian based
apt rock
vote 10
🙂
Okay we get the point of half the posters, just put your ubunto link in and then go away, no need to stick around making idiotic statements like “security is a joke”, or I need to download video codec’s. If you haven’t figured out how to use the internet to get software I don’t know what to tell you. You have/had to download winrar, winamp and still need to d/l divx on windows. Why isn’t the planet going backwards? Cause most people aren’t nearly as freakin lazy as you guys. Fedora doesn’t break the law, get over it or leave and shut up. Seriously.
It seem to be an up to date release but has anyone tried installing it on a new system with Intel’s 925X chipset atop
AHCI SATA configuration. According to Intel the AHCI standart is an open source standart nothing is hidden and was available
from February of 2004, still non of the current 2.6.9x kernels are capable of recognising a partitionable media.
I tried Sid, Sarge, Fedora1,2,3, Mandrake but still have to type this message from a Windowz box, which installs atop of a AHCI interface with a simple floppy.
Sad.
No one else is having issues with the gnome-panel? Im having random crashes of gnome-panel and its not the eggcups problem someone talked about. Its a random crash on the panel related for what i read about recent documents wich is pretty annoying
I think i found a bug report about this problem [url]http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=150809%5B/url]
greets
Yes, fedora is slow by default, for compatibility issues. But you guys must understand you can disable more than half of the services, kill the redhat network stuff, and disable the graphical boot. After that, FC3 is pretty fast.
I have a dual boot archlinux/FC3 and altho archlinux is faster, fc3 comes close once optimzed.
can’t save XPM graphics in Gimp
Because of a xpmlib security update. Sad, can’t paint my IceWM-Theme anymore
the bug is in bugzilla, but no solution yet. it’s worse. I rely on Fedora (and his rpm “hell”), don’t want to compile anything myself, and can’t save my graphics in XPM format for many many days!!!
I used Slackware 7.0 – 10.0 but won’t compile so much myself (I don’t thrust linuxpackages.net because of some problems -> k3b needs fam but I don’t like fam) and packaged many packages with checkinstall.
But I don’t want to compile myself so much, so I tried FC2 and now FC3 as my main system.
But that was not a good idea!
>Yes, fedora is slow by default, for compatibility issues. But >you guys must understand you can disable more than half of >the services, kill the redhat network stuff, and disable the >graphical boot. After that, FC3 is pretty fast.
Dude its still slow. I have done all that and I can’t believe how frickin slow it is. I even recompiled the kernel to support my processor (athlon xp)and enable the pre-emptive kernel and its still a dog. I have no idea where to go from here. I would have ditched FC3 by now if i had time to install something else.
> – no clean unmounting of reiserfs (3.6) partitions
> – the graphical bootup hangs on reiserfs errors (ugly in combination with the unclean unmounting)
> – buggy selinux: the installation program(!) failed to create the user, the user/group-tools failed, too
SELinux does not work on reiser 3.6 filesystem, because this fs does not support xattr. You have to use ext3/xfs or disable SELinux.
gcc3.4 (ubuntu…) everything was compiled with 3.3.x
selinux (various distrib use it already and anyway do not work on fc3 with reiser) yeah um, doesn’t work on any distro unless you can find a patch.
ext3 reservation (IBM)…etc etc.. Big Blue Linux 😉
See all the techs going to Debian, or Gentoo to get the best of linux…
Hum, pretty sure RH has a lot of Developers that do a lot for Linux……But I guess us rh/fedora users aren’t 3ll3t enough. Oh, hold on I need to log on to some Red Hat AS servers at work, not sure why they haven’t put gentoo in the enterprise since it so cool, bunch of fools here I tell yeah
And speaking of end user if rpm was the reference for it’s simplicity it’s now a headack…(why use rpm then yum, then up2date or apt-get??…if someone can explain how it’s a simplification eachone getting its own repo? ). ho hum
First yum is the front end to rpm, just like apt-get is to dpkg. Same with up2date/apt-get 4 rpm
Are you telling me Debian “only” has apt-get ? Cause I also use Debian and there are at least 5 front ends to dpkg. Good try but quit spreading FUD.
FC3 have the bluecurve theme that i don’t like.
AFAIK, you can change the theme so what is the problem?
it is extremely slow to boot
Disable the services you don’t need
the packages are over red hat policy and the community
can’t influence nothing on this side.
*sigh*
you can’t modify the menu
Both gnome and kde developers realize their own menu system is flawed and buggy so it is not their priorities. Fedora developers disable them rather than having a nasty issue. Both gnome and kde are waiting for Freedesktop convention for editing menu.
you must burn 3 cd every 6 month
Not true. You can install the package via internet. Use disk one for FCx then do linux askmethod saving 2 cd per release cycle.
apt-get dist-upgrade don’t work
You can use yum instead which is the default package manager. As for a GUI yum, a danish Fedora user was nice to develop it: http://linux.rasmil.dk/mambo/ . Still early but better than Cobind Yummi.
the security is a joke,you haven’t proper support
???
I have to agree with Bitterman that it is tiresome to see posters submitting other Linux distribution on [insert distro] topic.
What is your system specification?
this might help someone with fcr3
1. Useragent Switcher in FireFox (pretend to be IE/Netscape…)
http://www.linux-noob.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=1113
2. add the JAVA plugin to FireFox
http://www.linux-noob.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=1101
3. Disable SPATIAL mode in Gnome
http://www.linux-noob.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=1095
4. add the nVidia drivers
http://www.linux-noob.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=1085
5. get the ‘eggcups has unexpectadly quit’ error after running up2date ?
http://www.linux-noob.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=1093
6. add apt-get to Fedora Core Release 3
http://www.linux-noob.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=1076
7. add MP3 plugin to xmms
http://www.linux-noob.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=518
that’s a start,
cheers
anyweb
ubuntu have the best features in one cd only.
have 18 month free support for every release
is debian based
apt rock
Flawed logic that is debunked for xx times since you cannot fit development packages on a single cd. Ubuntu is designed to be a Gnome based personal desktop (hence the use of 1 cd) while Fedora Core 3 is a general purpose OS as it includes KDE, XFCE, development packages (hence the reason for 3 or 4 cd depending the installation method).
You like debian based distro? Fine. You only show a lack of respect for other non-debian users when you post on non-debian topic.
See all the techs going to Debian, or Gentoo to get the best of linux…
Hum, pretty sure RH has a lot of Developers that do a lot for Linux……But I guess us rh/fedora users aren’t 3ll3t enough. Oh, hold on I need to log on to some Red Hat AS servers at work, not sure why they haven’t put gentoo in the enterprise since it so cool, bunch of fools here I tell yeah
Debian developers are on a very professionals level
apt, kernel patches, security, FREE support, 11 different computer architecture a social contract…
and what about ubuntu ?
I didn’t say the Debian Devel’s didn’t contribute did I?
I was simply replying to this
See all the techs going to Debian, or Gentoo to get the best of linux…
Thats like saying only those 2 are the best choices for technical people when they are clearly not.
You english good yes? I english good yes too, yes?
Look, This is a Fedora review, it has nothing to do with debian’s developers, social contracts, or how many types of wristwatchs debian runs on. If you still think Fedora comes on 3cd’s you probably haven’t download it since FC1 or RH 9. You’re just here doing cheap commercials, it’s stupid and does nothing for your cause cause that greater than thou attitude is exactly why many users wont touch debian/ubunto.
FREE support? what about the 500 patches Red Hat sent upstream to the kernel, did you have to pay for those being a Debian user? I guess only Debian’s kernel hackers fix security for free right?
You say Fedora’s security is a joke well if SElinux, exec-shield, security patches and a gcc4 with stack prot compiled in isn’t enough for you then maybe you shouldn’t be connected to the internet, infact I really, really hope you take that advice.
I think fc3 is ok, I upgraded from fc2 using yum and it went through fine, but when I installed fc2 I did a minimal installation and used yum to install stuff like xorg. I didn’t install gnome or anything just got the latest xfce 4.2-rc1 and have been using it for a while now.
I have tested Fedora Core 3 as part of the evaluation of various linux distributions for Amd64 (i.e. SUSE 9.2, Mandrake 10.0 and 10.1b2, Gentoo). Our goal was to select the most stable, better performing yet easy to deploy linux distribution for one of our product that is implemented on the top of PHP/APACHE/MYSQL. We discovered that although Fedora Core 3 has the best support for Amd64, the PHP (both apache module and CLI)implementation it provides is buggy. We use PHP to parse/import complex data in mysql. PHP part of Fedora Core 3 keep doing segmention fault (actually sometimes it does work without segmentation fault). We tested also Fedora Core 3 for i386 and it has the same problem. Mandrake 10.0 and 10.1b2 has a very fast and stable PHP package in comparaison. The evaluation also showed that no all distributions are equal when it comes to Amd64. FC3 seems to be the more mature. SUSE 9.2 had a lot of problems. Both Mandrake and SUSE will not boot on a dual processor with more than 4GB of RAM (it seems that the kernel provided on the installation disk doesn’t support large amount of memory). FC3 is the way to go, for now, on Amd64. But you are better of compiling your own version of Mysql and PHP and maybe Apache… but then you might also be better of looking at Gentoo if you have to compile and install packages manually.
> PHP part of Fedora Core 3 keep doing segmention fault
upstream bugs :
http://bugs.php.net/bug.php?id=24460
http://bugs.php.net/bug.php?id=26171
http://bugs.php.net/bug.php?id=27070
I didn’t wanted to upset any one, as I tried this distro it was my thought that’s it, nothing else.
I was just remembering old time, where my first experiences was on RH and seeing now.
I could not find such a difference with others distros (debian is actualy mine).
And my regrets came first from that. And I am sorry to repeat, unless you have a good point, for an usual Linux user (not a geek)to move to this FC3?
Multimedia?, Security?, ease to use?, different WM?, Configuration tools?,… ok pros under RH have some privilege on server, but we are talking about FC3, as mentionned in http://fedora.redhat.com/, The aim is “the desktop” and the desktop is and remain the end-user not a technicien.
I’m not upset, I was just pointing out that your wrong. Thats all…..
Correction, cybrjackel you are indeed wrong and your logic is so flawed you are in deep denial of the facts. Before you state next time cybrjackel, please understand here we are talking about an ‘Operating System’ the code that drives the core of the PC. Back to my point, you see Fedora is aimed at the ‘desktop’ not the server level.
Remember cybrjackel there is a difference in a Server based operating system and desktop. If you need some help understanding this please email me.
titiv69
Dude get of the crack bowl.
You original post had nothing do to with server vs. desktop.
Thinks very much, but I work on rh/solaris/ibm/hp servers everyday. In fact I’m on call this week and i’m logged on to an HP-UX server right now, so I do konw the diff.
Your post had nothing to do with server vs. desktop. You were trying to slam Fedora and it was stupid.
Why don’t you figure out what your trying to say and then make some sense out of it, thx…..
you are indeed wrong and your logic is so flawed you are in deep denial of the facts.
huh what, what the hell are you talking about???
Please enlighten me, wise sir….
My orginal post stated the difference between a ‘desktop’ and a ‘server’ Operating System. You are so wrong, and you need to go ahead and admit it. If you are oncall for a system admin job and donot know the difference I hope it is not ‘mission’ critical machines. NOT unless you are an intern, trying to learn, if so just let us know and we will be ok with that.
Again, I stated [cybrjackle] you need to learn some basics before you try to overtake my orginal message. I understand you are learning, and I am trying to explain to you there is a difference between the two types of Operating Systems. I would like to recommend some reading for you, I think it my help ‘un-cloud’ your thinking.
So [cybrjackle] if you need some help with the systems and understanding the difference in Operating Systems, let me know and I am sure we can get you back on track. Again, you are so confused and your logic is so flawed it has become evident you need help.
Sincerly,
titiv69
1.)
I remember a time where RH was the precursor of what should and will be a Linux distrib.
Anyone remembering this good all time can only be desapointed by this awfull old fashioned distrib, going more in the politicly correct, than in trying new ways of developement.
For Linux future, the truth is definitivly…..ELSEWHERE!!!!
2.)
You will maby find somewhere something done by and for RH, unfortunatly those listed do not have the exclusive for Fc3.
remote desktop (win,apple,debian..)
gcc3.4 (ubuntu…)
selinux (various distrib use it already and anyway do not work on fc3 with reiser)
ext3 reservation (IBM)…etc etc..
A single search wth google will help.
(I am even runing a Debian based dist with xorg without any prob)
My reference remain the same RH was a reference not anymore.
See all the techs going to Debian, or Gentoo to get the best of linux…
And speaking of end user if rpm was the reference for it’s simplicity it’s now a headack…(why use rpm then yum, then up2date or apt-get??…if someone can explain how it’s a simplification eachone getting its own repo? ).
3.)
I didn’t wanted to upset any one, as I tried this distro it was my thought that’s it, nothing else.
I was just remembering old time, where my first experiences was on RH and seeing now.
I could not find such a difference with others distros (debian is actualy mine).
And my regrets came first from that. And I am sorry to repeat, unless you have a good point, for an usual Linux user (not a geek)to move to this FC3?
Multimedia?, Security?, ease to use?, different WM?, Configuration tools?,… ok pros under RH have some privilege on server, but we are talking about FC3, as mentionned in http://fedora.redhat.com/, The aim is “the desktop” and the desktop is and remain the end-user not a technicien.
The rest of your post were still you babbling.
So please, since I’m busy working on this mission critical HP server and don’t have a lot of time to talk to someone that is confused. Please state what your trying to say, cause I don’t see your server arguement. You were flapping your jaw about RH in the past, and then you moved on to state some false info about ubuntu’s gcc, selinux and reiserfs, and rpm/yum/up2date.
Please get your head out of the can and explain in plain english what the hell your talking about??
I’m very capable of working on *nix server and that is why i do it for a living and I don’t have a lot of time to talk to someone that is really confused.
Thanks for wasting my time, at least I got a good laugh out of this
roflmao
The more i think about this the funnier it is,
You telling me i’m an “intern” and cant work on servers but your trying to defend ubuntu ( a distro i also use) about an incorrect gcc version and selinux with a file system that Hans will not fix. and your lack of knowledge for rpm/yum and sounds like dpgk/apt-get.
Dude, thx for the laugh your are awesome…….. 8)
http://fedora.redhat.com/about/
I dont know how but some one is using my pseudo to open a controversal disction please correct if I am wrong
My Ip is on “efbx.proxad.net” nowhere else.
If there is a confusion let me know to change my pseudo
Sorry I was not at the base of the flamming earlier.
After some testing (on an old machine) I decided to upgrade my FC2 based network to FC3 and the upgrade worked just fine. (I just need to set the grub manually
I’ve upgraded 6 different machines (the 7th was a new install) ranging from single CPU P3 Laptop to quad CPU Xeon and it just worked.
If you plan on installing an FC3 desktop machine, follow the following steps:
A. Install OS.
B. Install apt-get. (http://ftp.freshrpms.net/pub/freshrpms/fedora/linux/3/apt/)
C. Install all updates. (apt-get update && apt-get -y dist-upgrade.)
D. Install the MP3/DVD tools (apt-get install xine xmms-mp3 mplayer etc)
E. Download and Install jre, mozilla-jre and most from dag. (http://dag.wieers.com/packages/)
F. If using nVidia, get the kernel source:
apt source apt-get source kernel-2.6.9-1.667.src.rpm)
cd /usr/src/redhat/SPECS
rpmbuild -bp –target=i686 kernel-2.6.spec
cd ..
ln -sf redhat/BUILD/kernel-2.6.9/linux-2.6.9 linux
G. Get the latest nVidia drivers and install them.
RPM hell can be avoided by using the mainstream RPMs only.
Use Freshrpms, DAG and KDE-Redhat and you’ll be just fine.
Oh.. my dual Athlon MP workstation was less then 5% slower (at times 5% faster) when running FC2 when compared to Gentoo.
Done.
Ouch…
I meant: Just need to upgrade the grub manually as it was sitting on a software RAID1. Otherwise, the upgrade process was uneventful.
Seems that I’m having a wonderful Piglish day… not enough sleep :/
Major correction
Kernel source are NOT required for compiling nvidia drivers anymore…
> SELinux does not work on reiser 3.6 filesystem, because
> this fs does not support xattr. You have to use
> ext3/xfs or disable SELinux.
Oh, didn’t know that, thanks. I disabled SELinux anyway.
But it’s quite lame that the installation software does not check that by itself when you’re installing the distribution only on ReiserFS partitions…
”
But it’s quite lame that the installation software does not check that by itself when you’re installing the distribution only on ReiserFS partitions…
”
thats because reiserfs is not supported and precisely why you need to pass a special parameter to get the installer to provide the choice.
today ext3 with reservation, online resizing and compatibility with large partitions and ext2 means thats its way ahead of the rest of the filesystems…
you shouldnt really choose unsupported options and then claim it breaks badly
Gilboa,
do you perhaps know how i can get grub booting from a s-ata raid 0 ? it just hangs at GRUB. If you would be so kind, reply to BenjaminLebsanft at web dot de
thanks
> thats because reiserfs is not supported and precisely why
> you need to pass a special parameter to get the installer
> to provide the choice.
It’s supported! The kernel module is still there (e.g. ntfs on the contrary was stripped out) and you don’t need special parameters if the partitions already exist.
> today ext3 with reservation, online resizing and
> compatibility with large partitions and ext2 means thats > its way ahead of the rest of the filesystems…
I had my problems with ext3 (much slower, my image program had problems with it, couldn’t create files >4gb etc. – I know these are all solvable issues but with reiser I don’t have these problems by default) and therefore stay with reiser.
Please no fs discussion.
> you shouldnt really choose unsupported options and then
> claim it breaks badly
If the distributions supports installing on a special file system it should deal with special issues that occure on that fs. Anything different is unprofessional.
?
It’s supported! The kernel module is still there (e.g. ntfs on the contrary was stripped out) and you don’t need special parameters if the partitions already exist.
”
no. its not supported. there is a difference between whats ships and whats supported. if you dont understand the difference do the research
”
If the distributions supports installing on a special file system it should deal with special issues that occure on that fs. Anything different is unprofessional.
”
educate yourself again