Probably one of the most talked about linux distributions in second part of this year was Ubuntu. It is Linux distribution based on Debian Unstable with nice selection of Gnome applications and it fits to one CD. Thanks to financial support from Canonical they have been able to offer free CDs, and that is really nice touch.After the first release, 4.1 code name ‘Warty Warthog’, was successfully delivered, Ubuntu developers started working on next release, code name ‘Hoary Hedgehog’, following 6-month release schedule, and it should be released in April, 2005. But, if, like me, you are not patient enough to wait for April, and you don’t mind possible breakage or bugs, you can follow ‘Hoary’ development by upgrading your Ubuntu to unstable ‘Hoary’ release. NOTE: Since it is development snapshot, expect occasional bugs or breakage. If you want stable system, wait for final release.
How to upgrade to ‘Hoary Hedgehog’
It is very easy to upgrade to ‘Hoary’: just edit your /etc/apt/sources.list configuration file to replace all instances of ‘warty’ with ‘hoary’. Then use apt, aptitude or synaptic to upgrade as you would normally do. In Synaptic, first you have to click on ‘Reload’ button to reload package information, and then you can upgrade your system. Now, it should be noted once more that upgrading to latest ‘Hoary’ snapshot can brake your installation. Some users reported on Ubuntu forums just that. Since I’m on dial-up (33.6kb modem), I approached in different way: I’ve upgraded packages in small chunks: I started with Nautilus (and all it’s dependencies), then check if everything is working properly, then moved to upgrade Epiphany and Evolution, and so on. In that way, if something got broken, I could get an idea what upgrade caused the problem and then move on to solve it. I’ve started upgrading to ‘Hoary’ as soon as repository got populated, and I didn’t experience any major problem that couldn’t be resolved, usually by waiting day or two and upgrading that package again.
What’s new
First thing that will be noticed is X.org server. I’ve upgraded with no problems from Synaptic, restarted X and it worked without any problem. Only thing I had to do manually was to delete xfree86-common from /etc/init.d . Also, ‘Hoary’ comes with kernel 2.6.9 and here I run into problems. After installing 2.6.9-smp kernel, I couldn’t boot it, it would segfault, although 2.6.8 works with no problems. Final release of ‘Hoary’ will include Gnome 2.10, but Gnome 2.9.2 is now available. Well, I see no big difference compared to 2.8, although I like some nice touches like new Disk Mounter panel applet.Also, latest versions of Gnome apps are included, Like Epiphany 1.5.2, Abiword 2.2, Evolution 2.1.1., etc.
Also, ‘Hoary’ includes some new apps developed by Ubuntu team, targeting simplified upgrading and application installation. They are Ubuntu Update Manager, Upgrade Notifier and Gnome Application Installer. Upgrade Notifier, when launched, will display icon in systray which shows available updates, and it can be used to launch Ubuntu Update Manager. Those 2 applications together make good alternative for using Synaptic, although, when number of updates are too big, it can be a little bit too hard to navigate through Update Manager. Another application is Gnome Application Installer, which tries to simplify task of installing/uninstalling Gnome applications. I think it is probably work in progress, since UI is quite confusing: clicking on label will select/unselect package, and my opinion is that only check box should be used for that. It relies on Synaptic, so clicking “Apply’ will launch Synaptic package manager.
Conclusion
In my case, upgrading to ‘Hoary’ was painless (except downloading upgrades through 33.6kb modem). Gnome 2.9.2 is stable enough, and availability of latest Gnome software is welcoming. Final release will include many more enhancements, and full list can be seen here. If you are not scared of following development from up-close, and want to participate in testing and fixing bugs, give ‘Hoary’ a try. Although almost 5 months from final release, I find it good enough for every day use.
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What a TERRIBLE name. I’ve tried Warty and think it’s a very promising distro.
You poor soul.. still on dialup.. I pray for thee.
Ubuntu was nice, but I’m cought between FC3, NDL, and Ubuntu. Hmm.. choices..
Anyone in the UK received theirs yet? It seems ages since I ordered mine, and I’d love to try out this distro.
Ubuntu is what restored my faith in desktoplinux
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Interesting article this, I myself never truly considered upgrading to Hoary, especially since Warty runs more than a-okay on my x86. My now-sold G4 iMac also happily ran Warty-ppc, and I was also very pleased.
I see a very bright future for this distro. It turned my x86 into mainly a Linux-only machine– people who know me around here will realize that that ain’t nothing
.
Just tried Ubuntu first time today .. via the live cd. Love it, although I wish they’d change the boorish default gnome theme.
It’s not the default theme. Ubuntu uses a custom theme named Human.
I received my set of CDs a while ago. If you’re in need of a couple, drop me an email and I’ll put some in the post to you
Ubuntu is now my distro of choice; it is the proud solo-install on my new PC and looks great on my first TFT monitor
Also, installation of mp3, flash, java etc was surprisingly easy. The forums are very active and the number of HOWTO’s at such an early stage is encouraging.
Kudos to the Ubuntu team!
About a year ago, I decieded to wip my windows partion, was duel booting Fedora Core and Win. 2000 professonal. I decied to let fedora have my whole hard drive. After fedora starting acting really buggy (it started deleating things off of my Kmenu), I tried Yoper, but after Yoper started to go down, I tried out Ubuntu. As I can say, with pleasure, Ubuntu is the only thing on my hard drive. Ubutnu is a really great desktop distro. I think they are going to do some great things in the long run.
~Alan
Nikola must have a higher pain tolerance than I have. First he says that, “‘Hoary’ comes with kernel 2.6.9 and here I run into problems. After installing 2.6.9-smp kernel, I couldn’t boot it, it would segfault, although 2.6.8 works with no problems.”
But then at the end of the article, he says that “In my case, upgrading to ‘Hoary’ was painless.”
If I couldn’t boot into the new kernel, I would consider this very “painful,” and I am a little embarassed to say, I’d probably give up right then and there and reinstall my old system.
Maybe it’s a matter of expectations? Installing an unstable development branch is surely fraught with danger, so there is no surprise that things did not go as expected. But I am risk-averse, so I guess that’s why I’m always on the trailing-edge of technology…
Heh, centos is what restored mine
When you end up upgrading to hoary, aren’t you supposed to use the command
apt-get dist-upgrade
after editing your /etc/apt/sources.list instead of just doing a normal upgrade?
http://www.myjavaserver.com/~mike001/ubuntu
Most of the guides you’ll ever need
i had a bad experience with this distro, tried dual booting with it, and it went fine but I noticed its a little sluggish than my slack 9.1 so when i tried removing the partition it was using i can’t, and xp can’t read its partition
“It is very easy to upgrade to ‘Hoary’: just edit your /etc/apt/sources.list configuration file to replace all instances of ‘warty’ with ‘hoary’. Then use apt, aptitude or synaptic to upgrade as you would normally do. ”
huh? While I understand what this means, I don’t want to do it (cause I am lazy and I think that my OS should work for me, not the other way around). But think about it this way, my father and his girlfriend are the average PC user around the globe, they would NOT be able to do the above. An average joe wont be able to do this
About theme: it’s SmoothHuman theme, made by myself, get it here:
http://www.gnome-look.org/content/show.php?content=17134
I just prefer Smooth engine over Industrial (too flat).
>If I couldn’t boot into the new kernel,
>I would consider this very “painful,”
>and I am a little embarassed to say,
>I’d probably give up right then and there
>and reinstall my old system.
Old kernel, 2.6.8 is still there, I am able to boot it, so it’s not show stopper.
Wont boot my xp partition either…..
I must admit this distro has in fact converted me to gnome AND .deb! Im still new to gnome and havent yet sussed how to change Application menu layouts, but other than that im a happy chappy
An average joe wont be able to do this
In article I said couple of times, it is development snapshot, don’t use it if you want stabile system, wait till April for final.
NOTE: Since it is development snapshot, expect occasional bugs or breakage. If you want stable system, wait for final release.
I’ve sang the praises of both Mandrake and Mepis here and elsewhere. I still love those distros, for various reasons. However, now I think Ubuntu might have leap-frogged ahead of those two in winning my heart and mind.
I just got the free CD a little over two weeks ago, and installing it on my extra Gateway machine (350 MHz cpu, 128 megs of RAM), which used to have Mandrake (I still have Mandrake on my laptop) has been an absolutely wonderful experience. Gnome 2.8 is excellent. The Ubuntu installer (modified Debian-Installer with autodetection) is exellent. Defaults are excellent. Desktop look and feel is excellent. Execution speed (even on the above antiquated hardware) is excellent – better than that of Mandrake’s (which was very good to begin with), and Synaptic and the Ubuntu/Universe repositories are excellent.
Ubuntu just bleeds quality and ease of use. It brings forth the very best of both Debian and Gnome. Fans of both of these should get Ubuntu. Fans of a great, easy computing experience should get Ubuntu. Newbies should get Ubuntu. It’s that good.
“It is very easy to upgrade to ‘Hoary’: just edit your /etc/apt/sources.list configuration file to replace all instances of ‘warty’ with ‘hoary’. Then use apt, aptitude or synaptic to upgrade as you would normally do. ”
huh? While I understand what this means, I don’t want to do it (cause I am lazy and I think that my OS should work for me, not the other way around). But think about it this way, my father and his girlfriend are the average PC user around the globe, they would NOT be able to do the above. An average joe wont be able to do this
Ah, so thats why Linux fails to get the desktop! Thank you for solving this mystery, i never imagined it were so simple. If you think your OS should decide for you wether you wish to run an unstable/development version instead of a stable one, then i guess stability is SOL on all of your computers due to you being lazy…
As an avid Ubuntu user, i am very excited about Hoary’s possibilities. I will try to help bug test it and make it a great final distro. But I would not recommend the faint of heart using it. So far, I have had to reinstall it twice after I had serious problem. If you want to help Ubuntu, or use an unstable Debian with Xorg, try it. People who want their system to remain solid should wait until Hoary is closer to a final release.
It’s mostly the fault of the people giving directions. Online, people tend to give directions dealing with the CLI and text-files, because its easier to explain in writing and less error-prone.
The graphical directions for upgrading to the beta are:
Go to computer -> System Configuration -> Package Manager.
Go to Settings -> Repositories in the menu.
Check on each repository, and change the “Distribution” field from ‘warty’ to ‘hoary’.
Click “OK”, then “Mark All Upgrades”, then “Apply”.
There is nobody I know that couldn’t follow these instructions.
Now, these instructions are for upgrading to the beta release of the next version. To upgrade to the beta release of the next Windows version, you have to actually boot from the install CD and spend 45 minutes running the installer. Once Hoary is actually released, it’ll be even easier. Just start synaptic, click “Mark All Upgrades”, then “Apply”. To upgrade Windows, even to the final version, you’ll still have to run the installer.
Those icon changes are quite ugly, I’m all for more art work but just look at that network icon!
Too bad since I’ve found Ubuntu to be the best looking OS out there so far.
It’s good to see that one of the most accessible distros of the last year has managed to pull out of a roaring start into a solid pace of development. The size of the Ubuntu community is quite amazing for such a recent piece of software.
However, I feel that it would only be honest to point out that while Ubuntu is very painless in installation and use, it suffers on the opposite edge of the spectrum. Demonstration by example, thus follows my experience with Ubuntu:
1.) Install. This was really easy, the installer was loads better than the old Debian Woody one. I felt unnecessary
2.) Configure. Coming from a KDE+Konqueror+Kontact background, I had to adapt to the gnomeish equivalents. Evolution for one was quite nice, although clicking the mail filters together sucked.
3.) Everything set up as I want? Good. Now let’s see what this baby can do.
First to install some basic software, i.e. K3B, Ethereal, Mplayer, Skype, bridge-utils, lvm, Samba, ntpd and some other stuff. This list may seem far-fetched but each one of these applications is in daily use on my system. Result: Install failure on Mplayer (something about an arts package not getting installed). Okay, it _was_ a 3rd party package, but it worked flawlessly for Debian.
So I continued browsing the distro, enjoying the look and the elegant simplicity of the GNOME experience. Within lies the problem: I found a lot of programs to be simplistic not only in interface, but in feature set as well. Rhythmbox can do a lot less than amaroK. Evolution lacks (or at least hides it well) filtering with regular expressions. Firefox is an excellent webbrowser, but Konqueror is a network transparent, no-doors-barred access portal, able to flexibly browse everything from audio CDs to newsgroups (which admittedly has only started working as it should recently). The Ubuntu desktop is full of very nifty, clean apps for one little task at a time. Integration, meta-applications or significant cooperation were nowhere to be found.
In summary, I congratulate Ubuntu on doing what it attempts to do very well. It is an excellent distro for all purists, admirers of clean interfaces and unseasoned users to whom other distros are as friendly as a brick in the face. Regrettably, Ubuntu will not be my distro of choice anytime soon, because I really do not want to miss the power of the tools I have become accustomed to. It seems Debian Unstable will have to put up with me a bit longer.
no ‘average user’ has any business running the development version of any distribution. That’s not who this article or this particular form of Ubuntu (or Mandrake Cooker, or Debian sid) is aimed at.
There are still a lot of annoyances that keep me from using a Linux distribution full time, but this is definitely a step in the right direction. It’s the first version of Linux that I could install and get running in less than a week, overall it’s quite well designed. IMO it’s significantly better than other desktop distributions such as Mandrake. It’s definitely one to watch in the future.
I don’t really mind to live on the bleeding edge but do they plan to release a beta CD soon? I’d like to install it on my laptop but the wonderful GRUB loader refuses to recognise my CD-ROM (probably because it’s removeable).
Hehe, funny ..
I was using Hoary just basically ‘painless’ untill today…when Gnome 2.9.2 came and gnome-menu was missing and it kinda broke a lot of stuff for me…menu’s are completetely fucked up and different than before…and yeah 2.6.9 didn’t work for me either… argh I guess I should have stayed on the ‘stable’ side of the force..but then then again, thats almost too boring!!
Well I just hope 2.9.2 is fixed soon, but I wouldn’t reccomend upgrading to Hoary just now. Xorg really was painless, though.
I had a good experience with Ubuntu. Very clean, just as gnome is (sorry to KDE people, I like KDE too. XFCE is not bad either). Hmmm, I think the boot time could be improved. Not as fast as gentoo right now in my machine. I will wait to see what the next version will bring, and see if I change permanently.
Rhythmbox can do a lot less than amaroK.[…]Firefox is an excellent webbrowser, but Konqueror is a network transparent, no-doors-barred access portal, able to flexibly browse everything from audio CDs to newsgroups (which admittedly has only started working as it should recently).
You are right… but what is good for you is not necessarily good for me. I use GNOME/GTK on my desktop and KDE/QT on my laptop… the lone exception being Firefox as Konqueror, in my opinion, tries to do too much. It does a boatload of stuff but it’s not great in anything. I can’t even stand it as a file manager.
As for amaroK, I didn’t used it very much but I used it to play some music… just like Rhythmbox. Perhaps it does have more features but I don’t need a sledgehammer to drive a nail.
Does this Distro give you choice to install grub ? I didn’t see the option. At least Mepis is one that has a check for bad blocks option, as well as letting you chose to install grub. I could install mephis and keep my current grub setup, and setup my /boot/grub/menu.* file to include the mephis kernel. Some of these install methods and getting a bit bastardized in my opinion.
Is there a *.deb anywhere for the font you’re using in your screenshots?
Thanks.
”
Once Hoary is actually released, it’ll be even easier. Just start synaptic, click “Mark All Upgrades”, then “Apply”. To upgrade Windows, even to the final version, you’ll still have to run the installer.
”
That is not correct, as the Ubuntu team will continue to support Warty until April 2006. Doing what you said will just upgrade the security updates for the Warty Packages. You still have to change the repositories to the Hoary branch so it knows to upgrade the distro. Plus, it is a good idea when using Synaptic to do a “Smart Upgrade” or when using apt to issue the command
apt-get dist-upgrade
instead of just doing a normal upgrade.
You can even try to do a dist-upgrade and IT won’t even work unless you change the repositories. Try it.
”
“It is very easy to upgrade to ‘Hoary’: just edit your /etc/apt/sources.list configuration file to replace all instances of ‘warty’ with ‘hoary’. Then use apt, aptitude or synaptic to upgrade as you would normally do. ”
huh? While I understand what this means, I don’t want to do it (cause I am lazy and I think that my OS should work for me, not the other way around). But think about it this way, my father and his girlfriend are the average PC user around the globe, they would NOT be able to do the above. An average joe wont be able to do this
”
And for people that are too bloody lazy to edit a friggin file to upgrade their OS (change 3 bloody words in the file I might add) there is something called Linspire. Use it and don’t complain. Also, I wouldn’t say the Windows installation program holds your hand, Microsoft hasn’t even used the concept of graphical installer YET!! Most Linux Distros have a graphical installer (exluding Ubuntu sadly).
It annoys me when someone picks the one bad thing from Ubuntu, another from Fedora, a couple from Mandrake, maybe one or two from SUSE and then combines them all into the reasons Linux won’t take on the desktop. Like I said, Linspire will work just fine for these people. Bloody hell, what do you want, every single Linux distro on the face of the planet to be dumbed down worse than Windows? Anyone who can’t figure Linspire out shouldn’t be allowed to use a computer.
what do you want, every single Linux distro on the face of the planet to be dumbed down worse than Windows?
Yes, they want linux dumbed down, then they want more advanced features. So basically they want to complain about everything. I don’t use ubunto but changing 3 words in a file is hardly rocket science. This is a devel release after all isn’t it? Someone who can’t use a text editor should probably stay away from a devel release.
As I said I haven’t tried Ubunto it seems like a pretty cool distro but the one I’m using currently does all the same stuff so there isn’t much incentive to switch yet. See you guys when unique apps/features start showing up.
Hoary is currently not in a great state, some new packages have come in that aren’t really ready at all yet, so you’ll end up with a bit of a mess.
Maybe next week, but not now.
I use the LiveCD at school (to prevent myself from having to use that made-in-Redmond OS) and it’s absolutely fantastic. Everything Just Works(tm). No hassle whatsoever. I love it. The fact that it’s Debian-based means I can use apt-get (or a nice GUI frontend such as Synaptic) for easy upgrades (though I can’t actually do this at school because it’s running on a LiveCD). If I didn’t already have a well-running Gentoo system setup, I would certainly install Ubuntu.
GNOME desperately needs pluggable MMC management consoles for plug-in apps ALA XPs services.msc, gpedit.msc etc
The problem isn’t Ubuntu, its the entire 2D bloated amateurish GUI feel of X/WM’s that reminds me of “warping back to OS/2”.
It sucks having to use XP, but the alternatives are amateur Linux GUI’s which require far more planning when it comes to GUI OS development.
GNOME desperately needs pluggable MMC management consoles for plug-in apps ALA XPs services.msc, gpedit.msc etc
—–
no. thats just MS thinking
It really needs work on the AMD64 side. Couldn’t even get an install of on an AMD64/K8V SE Deluxe mobo; and I am not the only one with the problem.
It’s hte Xandros of Gnome, and I make my decision based on price
Where’d you find Update Notifier and Update Manager? I can’t find them anywhere on my Hoary Hedgehog system. I’ve been looking forward to that.
BTW anyone esle experiencing carashin with Nautilus quite often, leaving you an unclcikable desktop (doesn’t even let me log out–handy ctrl+alt+backspace X
!!)
no. thats just MS thinking
——–
Well, it doesn’t require “MS thinking” to standardise Linux operations around a well designed set of common GUI plugin consoles.
This has nothing to do with Microsoft but has everything to do with professional GUI design principles.
Imagine that, fellow linux advocates!
God, I wish you were a troll so I wouldn’t have to respond.
The problem isn’t Ubuntu, its the entire 2D bloated amateurish GUI feel of X/WM’s that reminds me of “warping back to OS/2”.
It sucks having to use XP, but the alternatives are amateur Linux GUI’s which require far more planning when it comes to GUI OS development.
BLOATED? No, sir, if you want to see a bloated GUI look none other than to Windows XP. Or, even better, look at what Longhorn has in store. Half your screen gets taken up by a clock.
Gnome is by no measure an amateur UI. Extensive R&D has been put in (by companies like Sun) and HIG (Human Interface Guidlines) are followed.
And what is your problem with 2D? Name one company shipping a 3D desktop today. Answer? None.
Actually I don’t know what the hell you meant by most of this. You say it’s amateur but requires “extensive planning”. Whatever that means.
This has nothing to do with Microsoft but has everything to do with professional GUI design principles.
Obviously you think that just because Microsoft does it must mean it’s the right way. If you’re scared of text files, buy SuSE or something with a GUI to hold your hand.
There is no “design principles” I can see in Windows. It all varies from application to applications, vendor to vendor, and applications within companies. There is no unified design.
> If you’re scared of text files, buy SuSE or something with a
> GUI to hold your hand.
Or use something like WebMin:
http://www.webmin.com/
There are over 292 Modules for Webmin, much more than you can find in MMC.
Although, personnally, I refer to directly work with text files. Not only is it faster than any GUI, Perl/Python/Ruby and friends allow you to quickly perform complex administrative tasks quickly.
Article says “4.1 code name ‘Warty Warthog'”, and that destroyed all credibility of this article for me.
It’s 4.10, never 4.1. 4.10 means 2004 October release.
I installed this a few weeks ago and have found it to be one of the best distros around, particularly the one CD, eradicating so much of the clutter most people just don’t need.
However I really dislike the Gnome configuration they’ve made it’s absolutly appauling, the huge chunky icons for example, on a 1024*768 display I expect to be able to see far more than a couple of dozen files at once – it’s just drab and clunky. The theme seems to just bland, all the icons slightly brown, even the red crosses on Cancel buttons look like they’re a muddy shade of red.
Following up a previous comment “Extensive R&D” – into what exactly? The developers own version of what they think is good for themselves, maybe, but certainly not HI design. (Granted that is a Gnome and not Ubuntu comment)
Install Xfce over the top and you’ve then got an absolutly excellent distro.
Ubuntu is the best Linux distro, indeed.
Too bad I haven’t received the CD’s yet (ordered when it could be done for the first time), but I’m definitely looking very much forward to Hoary.
after having a little bit of minor trouble with Debian Sarge’s kernel i decided to try Warty, runs good, the no root login is different and probably aggravating to some, but since the only thing i do in root is thru a root terminal i am not missing anything there, overall it is a good distro, i think those that criticize warty are just missing something when they install it…
I tried Ubuntu recently, with a few people suggesting I give Linux a go (I use Windows 2003). Ubuntu is certainly clean in desktop design, but it was horrific to download 75 megs of updates after installation!
I am on broadband so that wasn’t a nightmare, but it must be hell for those on dialup. People keep saying Linux is more secure and reliable but it makes you wonder when 75 megs of updates are needed barely TWO MONTHS after releases!
Other problem was startup time. It took Ubuntu about three times longer to reach the desktop than Win 2003, and apps started slower too (OpenOffice on Ubuntu vs MS Office on Windows isn’t even comparable.) Firefox started a bit slower than its Windows equivalent too. I checked that I had DMA enabled on the drives.
So while it’s attractive, it really needs work on speed. People need real incentives to switch to Linux, and an OS that requires 75 megs of updates two months later, boots slower than windows and is more sluggish in use WON’T get the masses switching! I thought it was just me but I notice others feeling similarly disattisfied with Linux’s boot times and slow desktops too.
I look forward to trying this next Ubuntu release and hope it allays some of the problems.
Hi,
Yeah, I tried Ubuntu for a while, and also tried a prebuilt hoary .iso which more or less ended in disaster =). Seriously though, I’ve now gone back to Slackware for the simple reason that it “just works” – yes, I have spend something like half a week setting it all up again, but in the end, it’ll be worth it, because I will know *exactly* where everything is, and it doesn’t load useless cruft I’ll never use.
Also, I find compiling software (eg E17) on Ubuntu to be an exercise in brokeness – I have no idea why, but stuff on Slackware just seems to compile a whole lot cleaner.
Right not, I’m using good ol’ jhbuild to compile gnome 2.10 (cvs, of course), so there’s my desktop (bugger dropline…it’s already 2 months old). Apologies for bad spelling/layout – currently using lynx whilst jhbuild does it’s magic – why is it that lynx insists on forcing me to type on a tiny one-inch line? =).
bye,
Victor
I am on broadband so that wasn’t a nightmare, but it must be hell for those on dialup. People keep saying Linux is more secure and reliable but it makes you wonder when 75 megs of updates are needed barely TWO MONTHS after releases!
Yeah, it’s better to stay a year with bugs than to get updates after 2 months. What are you saying? That you thought Linux software were bugless? There’s no such thing. But you get updates fast, and that’s a feature.
Victor.
Forgot to comment the rest, so here it goes..
Other problem was startup time. It took Ubuntu about three times longer to reach the desktop than Win 2003, and apps started slower too (OpenOffice on Ubuntu vs MS Office on Windows isn’t even comparable.) Firefox started a bit slower than its Windows equivalent too. I checked that I had DMA enabled on the drives.
So you have an office application that loads slower than MS Office but costs 600 times less and you still don’t know what’s good about OpenOffice. OMG i’ve just wasted 40 seconds of my life waiting this thing load!
Is is always, always a horrible mistake to compare free software with proprietary software just by their technical qualities. Because free software is not just about software, it’s about freedom too. If you can’t see that, you should go to more Free Software events, get some information.
Victor.
I am on broadband so that wasn’t a nightmare, but it must be hell for those on dialup. People keep saying Linux is more secure and reliable but it makes you wonder when 75 megs of updates are needed barely TWO MONTHS after releases!
Well, I don’t know for you, but I’d rather have lots of updates than waiting two months or more for some bugfixes, especially when you have to agree with some shady EULAs. By the way, you can’t really compare WU/OU with Synaptic as they don’t update all your software on your machine.
They could start using Delta compressed patches, though…
When talking of replacing your existing configuration, usually XP/2000 and Office it is always, always essential to compare what will be replaced regardless of free/proprietery.
Regarding 75Meg of updates, yes it’s not ideal but coming from a Windows background having a single app that updates whatever you’ve got installed is nothing short of astounding.
However these are exactly the sorts of problems that hold back commerical deployments as management, whether it be slower unfriendly apps and interfaces or testing and deploying such high numbers of fixes are where the real costs come from not licensing.
> why is it that lynx insists on forcing me to type on a tiny
> one-inch line?
It doesn’t. CTRL+E typed twice while the cursor is in the text area will invoke $EDITOR on that text.
“Yeah, it’s better to stay a year with bugs than to get updates after 2 months. What are you saying? That you thought Linux software were bugless? There’s no such thing. But you get updates fast, and that’s a feature.”
So when Microsoft brings out large service packs, the Linux community slams the software for being full of bugs and insecure, and needing massive fixes. And yet 75 megabytes of updates TWO MONTHS after a distro is released is a feature?
I never assumed it was totally bug-free, but considering the endless outpourings from the Linux community about how open source is more reliable and secure, huge modem-user-crippling updates barely after an OS is released doesn’t look good at all. In fact to many potential users it could make that argument look really weak.
“So you have an office application that loads slower than MS Office but costs 600 times less and you still don’t know what’s good about OpenOffice. OMG i’ve just wasted 40 seconds of my life waiting this thing load!”
If you think speed isn’t an issue, that’s up to you. But for the vast majority of typical users it’s very important – hence why people constantly buy new CPUs and more RAM in the quest for better performance and productivity. Hence the massive popularity of tweaking sites, clean-up software and performance-boosting tools.
People doing a lot of work don’t enjoy massive startup times, and OpenOffice is really, really slow to load (not too bad in use though). It just doesn’t reflect well on open source, when the community keeps mocking Microsoft’s bloat and then chucks out something far, far slower and heavier. When I’m really busy doing work the startup times of OpenOffice are intolerable (QuickStart isn’t an option as that just hogs memory and increases system startup.)
It’s the same with booting. I tried Ubuntu on a laptop, and it took about three times as long as Windows to get to a usable desktop (again, looks bad when people keep mocking Microsoft bloat). I turn on my laptop many times during the day, and as the disk-hibernation feature isn’t supported well under Linux yet, I have to clean boot. So not only do the horrendously long boot times look bad to potential users, they’re another productivity hindrance.
“Because free software is not just about software, it’s about freedom too. If you can’t see that, you should go to more Free Software events, get some information.”
Why can’t it be about elegant, compact code, fast performance and fewer massive fixes, as well as freedom? They’re not mutually exclusive. I agree that freedom is important, and I don’t like Microsoft’s business practices at all, but in the real world other factors come into play – performance and usability being key. It’s all very well talking about freedom but few people will be tempted to TRY that freedom if the result is a slower, bulkier OS that needs loads of massive updates.
Perhaps I should go to a Free Software event. But perhaps you should spend more time with typical computer users, find out what matters to them and what would be incentives to switch. Because for all the rhetotic, an OS and apps that are significantly slower and heavier do NOT give a good impression – you can ignore these problems, but then in several years time you’ll probably be wondering why Linux still has less than 10% of the market.
People need incentives to switch. An OS that takes much longer to boot, feels slower and heavier in use, and needs large updates is NOT compelling.
is NetworkManager[1]. I’m using ifplugd and g-s-t’s Network tool to manage my ethernet and wireless connections right now, but it’ll be nice to have it all in one spot. And automagically switch interfaces too…hope it’s ready in time!
[1] http://people.redhat.com/dcbw/NetworkManager/
“After installing 2.6.9-smp kernel, I couldn’t boot it”
Are you using a single processor system? If so, it looks like you tried to install the wrong kernel.
“And yet 75 megabytes of updates TWO MONTHS after a distro is released is a feature?”
Please keep in mind, as noted in an earlier post, that this is not an update solely for the Operating System. This update covers OS and apps. So think of it more as installing Windows, updating through WindowsUpdate, then installing Office and updating through OfficeUpdate. Let`s compare apples with apples here.
@Jason Lotito
“It really needs work on the AMD64 side. Couldn’t even get an install of on an AMD64/K8V SE Deluxe mobo; and I am not the only one with the problem.”
That is very strange indeed. The 64bit version installed just fine on my machine with the exception of Ubuntu’s grub not finding Windows XP. Of course that was not a big deal as I just edited the grub menu.lst to solve that. :/
Anyway…
The guts are basically the same as yours. I have an Athlon64 3400+ on a K8V SE Deluxe motherboard with 1GB RAM, etc.
Weird… 😮
I understand that Ubuntu is aimed at the desktop user. What configuration tools does it come with? Mandrake has drakconf, SuSE has YaST. What does Ubuntu come with?
A few things.
> And yet 75 megabytes of updates TWO MONTHS after a distro is
> released is a feature?
On Windows, you update the single library, on Debian, you update the DEB file. The DEB file could be a group of libraries or it could be a whole application (library and all). DEBs tend to be pretty granular for most apps/libs, but given what I’ve said, it’s obvious that a DEB file update will nearly always be bigger than a Windows update.
> Other problem was startup time. It took Ubuntu about three
> times longer to reach the desktop than Win 2003.
That’s not been my experience. The Windows boxes at my work (and my parents home) are dead slow on startup. They start out quick when you first install them, but after they’re in use for a while, or connect them to a large network, or install several apps, the speed diminishes rapidly with time. I’m not sure why it is.
In my parent’s case, they have AdAware, Spybot, and Norton Antivirus working to protect them. They’re safe browsers, but AdAware and Spybot keep reporting numerous spyware, and there’s one spyware that refuses to disappear, the makemesearch spyware. It appears to be gone, but every once and a while their home pages switch back to “makemesearch”. A user shouldn’t have to deal with this stuff.
Okay, let’s say it’s possible that your Windows 2003 machine is faster, even with Antivirus (you are using an Antivirus, aren’t you) and other apps installed and you’ve used it for longer than 6 months. (Does Windows 2003 really take 5 seconds to start up for you?) The time you spend with Spybot and AdAware will likely more than likely offset that by a large margin.
And while we’re focusing on startup speed, startup is something that you do only once a day, so you waste only a small part of your day. Responsiveness of apps once loaded is nearly always more important. In this regard, there are some apps that are a bit more snappy in Linux than Windows (e.g. MPlayer is much more responsive in my experience than Media Player) and some are more snappy in Windows than Linux. But overall, my Linux desktop/server feels lighter.
It’s Debian-based, so any wrapper around apt-get; ie, Synaptic. And in the article the author mentions a new wrapper that the Ubuntu devs are currently working on.
<i.Is there a *.deb anywhere for the font you’re using in your screenshots? [/i]
It’s Bistream Vera font.
Article says “4.1 code name ‘Warty Warthog'”, and that destroyed all credibility of this article for me.
Lapsus calami. And if that’s only mistake, I didn’t do too bad
Are you using a single processor system? If so, it looks like you tried to install the wrong kernel.
No, I’m on dual Celeron system. I did manage to get it working (problem was with device.map ).
Here is the list of updates since Ubuntu was released:
http://www.ubuntulinux.org/support/documentation/usn/
Several are for things that have no equivalent in a standard installation of Windows but which Windows users would likely install as third party software – gaim and ImageMagick for example. (Do you often hear of security updates to AIM, Yahoo!, ICQ or Paint Shop Pro? Do you really believe they’ve never *had* security problems? Does Windows Update update these for you?)
At least one is a vulnerability that also existed in Windows, and several pieces of Windows software – the PNG vulnerability. Thanks to Linux’s near-universal dynamic library usage, a simple fix to libpng fixes this entirely on Linux systems. Thanks to the tendency of Windows developers to build things in statically, several third-party Windows applications required their own, separate patches to fix this problem.
One vulnerability is a fairly hard to exploit SMB vulnerability in the kernel (you need to be connected to a compromised SMB host to be exploited). Given the size of most kernels I expect this accounts for nearly half of the quoted update size alone. This could be reduced by using some form of delta patch, I guess.
“When I’m really busy doing work the startup times of OpenOffice are intolerable (QuickStart isn’t an option as that just hogs memory and increases system startup.)”
And of course you turned off MS Office’s quickstart before comparing their startup speeds, right?
No, apt-get is not a configuration tool, it’s a package management tool. He means GUI tools for configuring the system – hardware setup, X setup, network sharing setup, timezones, locale, all that good stuff. Like drakconf in MDK, or YaST in SuSE.
”
And yet 75 megabytes of updates TWO MONTHS after a distro is released is a feature?
”
No, but that update tool upgrading everything on your computer IS a feature. Does Windows Update update three different office suites (ABIWord, OOo and MS Office), GAIM, AIM, Firefox, Thunderbird, Mozilla, ImageMagick, Gimp…(list goes on). So yeah, it isn’t really fair comparing Windows update to apt/Synaptic. At least you don’t have to manually upgrade every friggin program on your system like in Windows. So stop complaining.
So am I correct in thinking Ubuntu comes with no graphical configuration tools at all?
I tend to think no distribution is ready for the general public if you ever have to go to the console or edit text files to achieve anything. And I say this as a long-time Linux user who is not afraid to get his hands dirty.
Ubuntu is clearly not ready for the desktop. Why on earth are you all raving about it? What does it offer that Mandrake, SuSE, Lindows, Xandros, etc don’t?
So am I correct in thinking Ubuntu comes with no graphical configuration tools at all?
No, you’re wrong. Why don’t you try Ubuntu yourself instead of making wrong statements? Ubuntu comes with the great Gnome System Tools (http://www.gnome.org/projects/gst/) preinstalled.
The GNOME System Tools are great (I use some of them occasionally on my Mandrake system, the Mandrake tools are very functional but a nice HIGified UI is so much nicer to look at :>), but they’re nowhere near as comprehensive as Drakconf or YaST.
” but they’re nowhere near as comprehensive as Drakconf or YaST.”
this is improving over time
very well, can I install the 2006 version of Ubuntu then please?
2 months? Well, the first week we’ve already had more than 10mb of patches IIRC, and its a good thing.
Better than waiting for almost 8 months just to download a patch that’s more than a hundred meg just to fix a vulnerability thats also 8 months old.
Oh, you can use GRC’s. Good luck.
I’m still trying to find out what Ubuntu offers that other distributions don’t. Gnome System Tools looks a long way short of Drakconf or YaST. The only other difference I can see is that it uses apt/Symantic for package management. That’s no great advantage – urpmi works fine these days.
If you are happy with Mandrake, then use Mandrake as you always had. But give Ubuntu a try before starting to say that “Ubuntu is clearly not ready for the desktop”.
Why do people always have to compare GNU/Linux distributions and claim that XYZ is not ready for the desktop but ZYX is. So use ZYX and let others use XYZ!
Does Ubuntu have hardware detection on par with Knoppix? My Knoppix live CD automatically sets up DHCP, my external USB harddrive, and sound. I’ve been doing it the hard way for years, and it’s convenient to have a distro that does it all for you.
Grow up.
Once I was faced with an Ubuntu fanatic that said “my” distro (as if I owned it was shit).
Any question I fired at him – would be quickly answered; any challenge – easily met. I had to shut-up because I have had no exposure to Ubuntu – so how can I argue?
Fact is – like any distro – Ubuntu has its shortcoming.
And many – so much – I prefered to have it uninstalled from the laptop.
Fact is – distros are distros. Grow up from your distro wars. The best distro being that one that have suited you best so far (with the least headaches).