http://www.osnews.com/story/9660/FreeBSD_logo_design_competition Exploring the Future of Computing en-us Copyright 2001-2009, David Adams adam+nospam@osnews.com Mon, 09 Nov 2009 22:35:20 GMT http://www.osnews.com/images/osnews.gif http://www.osnews.com http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? The daemon will disappear!
Do not as NetBSD with their new logo that sucks! Wed, 09 Feb 2005 12:45:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? nooo pleasee Wed, 09 Feb 2005 12:50:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? why oh why? Wed, 09 Feb 2005 12:59:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? Where can I sign the petition to keep Beastie?

From the FreeBSD website:

"Historically, we used a daemon character as mascot [1], and put it on our web site with "FreeBSD" text like as logo. This character sometimes treated with misunderstanding in the religious and cultural context."

But do we/they have to care about it? It think this decision is really really stupid. Beastie is one of the coolest logos i've ever seen. It's *UNIQUE*. Even without any text under the logo, you just know it has something to do with [Free]BSD. I think a lot of marketing boys are jealous they don't have such a logo.

No,no,no... Wed, 09 Feb 2005 13:00:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? First NetBSD, now this. Crap. Utter, utter crap. This is just so sad. Wed, 09 Feb 2005 13:08:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? I'll always have my chuck tattoo to remember him. I do like the new netbsd logo though. Much more professional. Wed, 09 Feb 2005 13:08:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? yet another reason why religion and religious people should be relegated to a historical curiousity. Karl Marx was indeed correct about the subject. Wed, 09 Feb 2005 13:14:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? Amen to that. Beastie has nothing to do with the Christian myths. Save Beastie. Wed, 09 Feb 2005 13:23:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? Beastie forever! Wed, 09 Feb 2005 13:24:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? call wwf, greenpeace or something like that

this "unique" beast must survive

*cuddle beasti* Wed, 09 Feb 2005 13:25:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? ... before they decide to cancel the competition. Even as a linux user I have to admit that Beastie is much cooler than Tux. Wed, 09 Feb 2005 13:27:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? Is there a way to convince them to keep the Beastie? A petition maybe? How IS that happening anyway? CRAP! Wed, 09 Feb 2005 13:30:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? A former online friend was the demonette booth babe. I'm sure she still uses FreeBSD and I'm sure she wouldn't wanna wear a n androgynous teddy bear outfit Wed, 09 Feb 2005 13:32:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? And thus the unwashed, ignorant and intolerant religious bastards - who know nothing about neither religion nor deamons or anything else but rather runs around like headless chickens and "belive" stuff - win again in the name of "political correctness". This is a sad day for free speach, and it's sad to see such a collosal capitulation from a project which always appeared to be about freedom. Wed, 09 Feb 2005 13:35:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? I wonder if they keep the beastie then maybe they see how much everyone loves the Beastie logo and not the new logo? I mean, if they don't ditch it completely... Wed, 09 Feb 2005 13:35:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? Who cares about religious Zealots....

I thought going BSD and leaving Linux behind was all about not having zealots all around you. So why then care about christians getting upset about Beastie??? That's the people the BSD camp don't want as users... geee... Wed, 09 Feb 2005 13:43:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? i am with you guys that are saying the current logo should be kept. are there any BSD users complaining about the logo is thought to have some kind of relations to their religion? religion is just religion. logo is just logo. i am quite sick of religion, especially the religion which makes people to react like this! (btw, out of the topic, without a doubt, it would be much much much worse in korea because quite a lot of christians in korea are just totally mad about their religion which caused me to hate :p sorry to koreans but they really are!)

i really like daemon. cute, unique and cool! And imho, a daemon sticker on the pc case would be much better looking than the penguin sticker on it. i simply love it. i hope that daemon would survive. Wed, 09 Feb 2005 13:44:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? How come is that these religious people always have to decide whats best for the rest of us? Do we waltz into their churches and shift furniture? This is most absurd.

http://wigen.net/data/bsdmascots/ (makes my day)

Peace Wed, 09 Feb 2005 13:49:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? "Who cares about religious Zealots...."

This has nothing - at least from my side - to do with any attchtement to beastie to do, even if I think he's really cool. What annoys the hell out of me is that they scrap a perfect mascot to please a bunch of ignorant idiots just to be politically correct. The zeal of which you speak is concerning tolerance, free speach and thougth. And don't give me any crap about it beeing tolerance to scrap beasty. If they can't stand him then they can stay away. Wed, 09 Feb 2005 13:55:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? whoops. misread your post.. sorry..
*red face* .. Wed, 09 Feb 2005 13:57:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? I'm a born again Christian, but I'm not a religious zealot. But I think it's completely unnecessary for them to change their logo due to religious zealotry. I kinda doubt that's the *real* reason. I rather doubt there are any Churches or Christians up in arms about the beastie logo. And even if there are a few, are there really enough to justify a logo change? How many Churches even know about FreeBSD, much less care enough about it to cause a stir?

There has to be more to the story than this. Wed, 09 Feb 2005 13:57:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? Submit original artwork that has beastie in it.
Nowhere in the rules does it say no daemon

I love beastie - keep him alive! Wed, 09 Feb 2005 13:59:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? The inmates are taking over the asylum. How can it truly be 'Free' BSD if this sort of pressure forces a mascot change.

When will they start bowing to code changes?

Keep Beastie! Wed, 09 Feb 2005 14:01:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? what the hell ...?

keep beastie, he IS FreeBSD!

florian Wed, 09 Feb 2005 14:06:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? http://www.alwaysaffordablegifts.com/american-pride/america-pics/te... Wed, 09 Feb 2005 14:07:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? Well we could do a couple of things, a whole bunch of ppl could send in bestie art work, or we petition them to keep it, I think they shouldnt change because then the Christians will start crying and FreeBSD will get free press, because you know its going to be on the news! Wed, 09 Feb 2005 14:08:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? I agree with all the posts above.
Keep Beastie! Wed, 09 Feb 2005 14:11:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? From the rules:
"The logo must not exploit or offend a person's sex, race, religion, morality, culture , nor be salacious or pornographic."

Hmm. Not offend anyone? Impossible! With so many different cultures and religions, you are bound to offend someone regardless of what logo you choose.

The trick is to not care... ;-) Wed, 09 Feb 2005 14:12:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? ...to shove it. Jeeze. This reminds me of the earfull I got when I was reading the SATAN documentation when it came out. I was on the bus, reading the printouts and minding my own business when these church ladies (the SNL character was a subdued version of reality) peeled a strip off me, loudly I might add. I just could not believe this. I tried telling them to calm down, that the papers had nothing to do with religion but with network security. They then switched to the "computers are the tools of the devil" schtick, at which point I popped a fuse and got them to clam up.

I really hope that the FreeBSD team can stand up and keep Beastie. This pseudo-religious thing is really skidding out of control in the USA. How soon before Tux is deemed "morally incorrect"? Wed, 09 Feb 2005 14:13:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? As sad as it sounds I first installed FreeBSD because of the logo and I am sure there are many people influenced by the "positive" image it projects unto the project.
They are offering 500$ to destroy a classic piece of open source marketing.... Even 10.000$ would sound low.

*sigh* it's so sad. Does anyone have a testimony from someone who is actually in favour of a replacement ?
maybe a "DaemonBSD" fork/copy is in order. Wed, 09 Feb 2005 14:15:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? If you read the details, you'll see that they want to get a new logo, not replace the mascot, who will remain the beastie. Wed, 09 Feb 2005 14:18:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? I'm sure Beastie will stay. They don't want to change the *mascot*, they just want a new *logo*!
Come on.. this decision totally makes sense. Beastie isn't a logo, it's a mascot - and we can reasonably assume it'll never be dropped.

Btw, here's another daemonette - my favourite
http://www.keltia.net/photos/Bellamy/Daemonette/daemonette_bg1024_t... Wed, 09 Feb 2005 14:22:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? Keep Beatie!

Where must I sign for him? Wed, 09 Feb 2005 14:31:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? I agree with keeping Beastie as a Mascot, but it does kinda sound like they want to replace him, they want it to be more professional? Are they going try and take over desktop and server space? Are they going to retail FreeBSD? If not then why ask for a new logo? Do they even have a logo to even replace? Wed, 09 Feb 2005 14:39:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? please keep the current logo :| Wed, 09 Feb 2005 14:42:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? where ned flanders told Homer :
"I am as cool as any other parent, for example last week I let tod buy a candy with a devil drawn on it" Wed, 09 Feb 2005 14:45:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? Keep the Beastie! Damn religious fools. FreeBSD needs to remain "free" (as in speech), the Beastie is a great logo. Keep it. Wed, 09 Feb 2005 14:48:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? What influenced the FreeBSD team to consider a move like this? Next they will be drinking laced Coolaid. Wed, 09 Feb 2005 14:53:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? ...How some religious zealot has submitted all of the anti-religious zealot posts for removal.

If thou be offended, then defend thy fundamoronism, rather then lurking in the shadows! Or, just go to hell and leave the rest of us free from your fairy-tale beliefs. Wed, 09 Feb 2005 14:53:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? Please don't do a stupid thing!
They want to change the FreeBSD logo for every compliant the will receive?
"HEY THAT NEW LOGO FOR ME IS NOT OK CHANGE THAT!"
changing the logo again
"HEY THAT NEW LOGO FOR ME IS NOT OK CHANGE THAT!"
changing the logo again
"HEY THAT NEW LOGO FOR ME IS NOT OK CHANGE THAT!"
and again and again and again... Wed, 09 Feb 2005 14:57:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? Confusing that nice Beastie logo with something evil it is only posible for religious zealots. Confusing religious people with something fanatic and extreme, it's also only posible for other kind of zealots.

I'm catholic. Keep our Daemon alive! Wed, 09 Feb 2005 14:58:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? FreeBSD is an OS that appeals to professionals, so it sounds good that they've finally decided to *have* a logo.
And the wonderful BSD license is the best assurance one can have that nothing will change in the spirit of the project - that is not commercial, not political, but academical.
That's how I see it. Wed, 09 Feb 2005 14:59:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? I think the foundation wants a change to appear more business-like in their presentation to companies. A cartoon character (even as cute as he is) does not sell to businesses very well. People in charge would probably be kicked out if someone thought they enjoyed cartoons. RedHat has shunned the penguin on their front page; they have their own logo.

As for religion, I doubt the reason for change is a group of religious people petitioning against the current logo. If anything, it is PC "police" in other companies that are afraid of offending anyone. The anti-religious (based on their posts) atheists should try to relax.

BTW, I am Catholic and understand the difference between a daemon and a demon. FreeBSD has even "possessed" three of my computers at home. 010100100010101001001... Oh, no! I am speaking in bits. Wed, 09 Feb 2005 14:59:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? I wholeheartedly agree with one of the previous posters about church furniture. I don't mess with their churches, they shouldn't mess with our OS! No reason to replace the most brilliant mascott I ever saw attached to a quintessential server OS. Man, these are computers we're talking about, it's not like it's Marilyn Manson or something ;-))) Wed, 09 Feb 2005 15:00:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? Well...my religion order's me to stick with FreeBSD _becouse_ of the beastie...now - anyone cares at all ?
There are many people convinced (by whom i do not know) that the Earth is flat. Mayby we shoudn't tease with them and get rid off of the calendar which imply's Earth beeing spherical and moving around the Sun. Or maybe we shoudn't upset guy's rejecting notion of living organisms developing themselves in process call'ed evolution (they managed to forbid learning about evolution in schools in some states). I personally can not agree with such bul..it. It is a matter of fighting for the freedom to choose not to be eaten alive.

"If you read the details, you'll see that they want to get a new logo, not replace the mascot, who will remain the beastie."

To me this is rather vague what is the difference between mascot and the logo. I understand, that beastie won't show itself anymore during e.g. installation. It is unacceptable.

let the beastie live.... Wed, 09 Feb 2005 15:01:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? >>Confusing religious people with something fanatic and extreme, it's also only posible for other kind of zealots.I'm catholic. Wed, 09 Feb 2005 15:04:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? hehe, actually they are not as much anti-religious as they are anti religous zealots. Zealously anti zealot you might say. :-) Wed, 09 Feb 2005 15:08:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? ... tomorow there will be no more daemons in FreeBSD - no httpd, no ftpd, etc. ;-) Wed, 09 Feb 2005 15:15:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? What I find really ironic is that the "enlightened" atheists are the least tolerant people, most hateful, self-righteous on this planet, and these "backwards" Christians are the foundation of freedom, acceptance and love in this world.

Atheists, buy yourself a clue. There are a lot of religious people in this world. They never got up in large numbers and tried to force their view on FreeBSD. These people merely might have been turned off by Beastie and FreeBSD so the FreeBSD team wants to make sure it isn't happening. I don't blame them either.

It is an OS, keep it neutral. If I never had heard about FreeBSD and was completely clueless about it, I would wonder why they have the "devil" there. And if you can't see why Christians are offended, let me give it to you another way. I wouldn't expect you to use an OS with Jesus with a big cross as a mascot with the slogan "carrying your burdens". And even if you did, wouldn't you wonder why they put religious symbols in an OS? Wed, 09 Feb 2005 15:19:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? Stop this politically correct madness. Save the BSD daemon!!

Let'em know what you think about this:

logo-contest@FreeBSD.org Wed, 09 Feb 2005 15:21:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? Please don't do it! We want beastie to stay! Wed, 09 Feb 2005 15:26:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? Oh good lord!

I understand the sensitivity issue, being a minority myself. But this religious-based political correctness issue over icons is just as bad a secular-based political correctness.

Maybe George Orwell was just twenty or so years off. Wed, 09 Feb 2005 15:36:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? What I'd like to know is not whether the logo bothers some people, but whether this actually has any big impact on FreeBSD.

Does the FreeBSD project really face any substantial trouble owing to a cute demon logo? Are people orchestrating letter writing campaigns or withholding support over the cute demon logo? Are the developers' inboxen deluged with complaints? In short, is this an actual problem that needs to be solved?

Plenty of companies have logos and names that may offend a subset of religious people. Even some standard product names, like devilied ham, may "turn some people off." But these are not changed unless it actually affects the company.

I am biased because I was a BeOS user, and they had a perfectly good logo consisting of their name. Like IBM, Be has a nice, short name that works as a logo. But during the dot-com madness someone decided that the logo had to be changed to an abstract paperclip resembling either an eye or an ear. Wed, 09 Feb 2005 15:36:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? You people care about the dumbest things. It's just a logo, you'll live if it gets changed. Wed, 09 Feb 2005 15:37:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? finally, someone with some sense on this topic.

RTFA, people:
And this daemon character seems cute from somebody's point of view,
but somebody may think which does not suit for the professional
products to indicate that are using the FreeBSD inside.

while i think their mascot is fine, they obviously feel pressure from professional organizations to try to look more "professional" (whatever that means). any mention of religion is solely included for historical context and has nothing to do with their decision.

before you jump on Christians, please check your own zeal at the door and RTFA. Wed, 09 Feb 2005 15:40:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? What about the Duke "blue devils"? What about the Wake Forest "Demon Deacons"? What about the New Jersey...gast..."Devils"? What about Fred the Red for Manchester United? They seem to be doing fine.
Grouping religous symbols with an OS is about as stupid as it comes. The devil is there because freebsd has "daemons". When I first saw freebsd, that is the immediate connection I made. There was no religous undertones whatsoever.
If it's because FreeBSD wants a more porfessional image..comeone. Like a friggin Penguin is professional?
While a new logo might work to target a more professional setting, they should keep Beastie is some aspect. At least for a heritage thing... Wed, 09 Feb 2005 15:41:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? i hope the keep the mascot and their current logo, it's easily recognizable. my girlfriend's a sun devil (ASU alumn) and we're both Christians. so where are these Christians beating down the door to have the logo removed? not on OSNews (at least not yet anyway)! Wed, 09 Feb 2005 15:44:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? Why does everyone always automatically assume its christians whining about it? THeres more than one religious group people

anyways, I think its really dumb to change the logo for that reason. People are to scared of offending others nowadays. its pathetic. I'm a christian and I see nothing wrong with having the daemon in the logos. netbsds old logo was awesome. The new one sucks. Wed, 09 Feb 2005 15:47:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? >>these "backwards" Christians are the foundation of freedom, acceptance and love in this world. Wed, 09 Feb 2005 15:48:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? All you PC religious wackos are insane! There is nothing related to the devil in this logo. It's just for fun... Wed, 09 Feb 2005 15:50:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? Well, I love beastie, and I don't think it should be changed. It is very characteristic of FreeBSD, especially now that all BSD's have distinct logos. Not that they didn't, but sometimes for noobs it was easie to confuse OpenBSD's daemon (with the O or halo above its head) and Beastie - not anymore as puffy the blowfish is more and more being associated with OpenBSD.

Anyhow, I understand the reasoning behind the logo change of NetBSD ... well, somewhat - because not only daemons were in it (religious concern) but it was also a parody of a historical event (I wasn't offended, nor should anyone imho, but it happens, especially in the current political climate where super-patriotism is en vogue again). Added to this was the fact that the pic was too complex to function as a logo. Now from all of these concerns FreeBSD's Beastie has only one (and only in the eyes of one set of zealots not two). Beastie functions perfectly as a logo, and it is recognizable, the Handbook explains its function, and besides, if we follow this reasoning to it's logical conclusion, then sshd, httpd, etc. should remove the trailing d - why? Because: what if someone asks the reason behind the strange names of these services, and when he or she (yup, I'm politically correct) hears that the d stands for daemon, turns away from unix/linux and will install IIS instead? Huh?

Nevertheless, maybe a compromise is possible. I am no artist, so I have no idea how we could do it, but isn't it possible to design a logo that has beastie in it in some way? An svg logo where beastie is still recognizable, but doesn't have that reddish hue or something - a schematic representation of beastie perhaps? Also, why not put a * on advertisement material with explanation (taken from the Handbook):

"3.8 Daemons, Signals, and Killing Processes

When you run an editor it is easy to control the editor, tell it to load files, and so on. You can do this because the editor provides facilities to do so, and because the editor is attached to a terminal. Some programs are not designed to be run with continuous user input, and so they disconnect from the terminal at the first opportunity. For example, a web server spends all day responding to web requests, it normally does not need any input from you. Programs that transport email from site to site are another example of this class of application.

We call these programs daemons. Daemons were characters in Greek mythology; neither good or evil, they were little attendant spirits that, by and large, did useful things for mankind. Much like the web servers and mail servers of today do useful things. This is why the BSD mascot has, for a long time, been the cheerful looking daemon with sneakers and a pitchfork."

Of course I have a simplified version of this text in mind. Wed, 09 Feb 2005 15:52:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? >>Why does everyone always automatically assume its christians whining about it? Wed, 09 Feb 2005 15:54:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? You know what kills me?? When people don't read all of the posts and decide to say, "THOSE DAMNED CHRISTIANS!!"

I am a Christian, just like the others that have posted before me. And like them (because I've read all the postings), I have no problem with the beastie. I am sure they, like myself, understand that it's just a logo and it doesn't mean that it's the spawn of Satan or what nonsense. So please, leave all the common assumptions of Christ-believers at the door. If you think you are more "enlightened" than I or other Christians, good for you...please demonstrate that in your postings. (Oh no!! I said DEMONstrate!!! AaaaAaagGGh!! :-p And BTW, for those tolerant non-christians that still don't understand, that was a joke.)

Back to the Beastie: looking at the current logo on a professional level, it might not be something that a company would go for. Consider all the Linux distros out there. How many times in recent years have they changed the look of their logos to cater to a more professional or corporate audience? Look even at the early mascot pictures for Linux. It wasn't always a penguin, you know. How about Mozilla?? We all know about the mascot, but most of the times Mozilla is designated by that "M" logo. Understand that institutions and corporations don't think as we geeks do. What might be cute to us might be considered as something for hobbyists and not for critical uses. I'm sure everyone (myself included) would love to see the BSDs represented in the corporate setting as Linux has.

I don't think that the FreeBSD team will do away with the Beastie, and I hope they don't either. I do think that, like the NetBSD team did, they will incorporate something about the Beastie into the new logo. And I'm sure this is what they will be looking at from contributors. The NetBSD logo might not have the Beasties in it per se, but the flag still does hark to them for those of us that are in the know about our favorite *NIX alternatives. Plus, it looks good...simple, clean, and elegant, which is what corporations look at. A quick look at the design of a successful corporation's web page will tell you that. Wed, 09 Feb 2005 15:55:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? It's just such a lame move - changing a logo and think you'll have as much coverage as, say, Linux, just because it happened? FreeBSD team needs, no, MUST hire a good PR/ad person that'll promote what currently is there, and I believe it's not at all impossible. Even the daemon can be made appealing to the vague 'professional businesses' category, if the RIGHT person is handling these matters. Look at advertising/communication history - it's all full of examples where it was excessive to change a corporate identity just to start a new life! Besides, I would believe, if they had some lame 'cirles arranged on boxes' logo, but it's the Beastie! It's the heritage, the legacy, everything! Those of you who say 'oh, it's just a logo, wth' just think what you'd say if Linus said 'let's get rid of the ugly penguin, it's so cuddly and fun, nobody believes we make an OS anymore, they think we make plush toys'. Stupid. "FreeBSD" is as vague a name as it gets (compared to "Windows" for example), so what LOGO are they going to stick on this name? It doesn't mean anything, it's partly a world and partly an acronym!! Wed, 09 Feb 2005 15:56:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? Somehow I think they want a professional looking logo to impress these managerial types in companies. Often some dimwit managers make decisions on how something looks, not how it performs. Wed, 09 Feb 2005 15:56:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? when the world will be so politically correct that no-one will be able to say nothing.... Wed, 09 Feb 2005 15:56:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? From the rules: "The logo must not exploit or offend a person's sex, race, religion, morality, culture , nor be salacious or pornographic."

It seems like a lot of people are already offended... ;-) Wed, 09 Feb 2005 16:03:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? My tattoo will be obsolete if they do this. Wed, 09 Feb 2005 16:06:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? What I find really ironic is that the "enlightened" atheists are the least tolerant people, most hateful, self-righteous on this planet, and these "backwards" Christians are the foundation of freedom, acceptance and love in this world.

Yeah. Too bad some of them can't live by their own rules without trying to censor everyone else and try to impose their values and views on others who don't want them.

Atheists, buy yourself a clue. There are a lot of religious people in this world. They never got up in large numbers and tried to force their view on FreeBSD.

Perhaps not but pretty much everything else.

These people merely might have been turned off by Beastie and FreeBSD so the FreeBSD team wants to make sure it isn't happening.

It's also known as selling out or giving in. Besides if they are so easily turned off, do freebsd really need these people? I would think beastie is more valuable than some easily disturbed weenies..

It is an OS, keep it neutral. If I never had heard about FreeBSD and was completely clueless about it, I would wonder why they have the "devil" there.

To appease any and everyone? Even if we disregard beasty's fantastic strengt as a identifier for freebsd, as others have pointed out it will never end. There is always someone who take offence as long as you don't use some completely pointless and anonymous letter logo like "IBM" or something.

And if you can't see why Christians are offended, let me give it to you another way. I wouldn't expect you to use an OS with Jesus with a big cross as a mascot with the slogan "carrying your burdens". And even if you did, wouldn't you wonder why they put religious symbols in an OS?

No I wouldn't that's correct. I also wouldn't try to pressure them to change their ways, as I also wouldn't give a damn (and thus not be offended) about why they included those symbols as I would never see them nor care about them or their OS.

In short: You miss the point completely. At least the impression I've gotten is that the majority of the really pissed of people here are angry about the religous people sticking their noses where they don't belong, and not the religion as such. So, christian, go and buy yourself a cluestick and apply it to your head. Repeat if needed. Wed, 09 Feb 2005 16:06:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? February-fool!!! Wed, 09 Feb 2005 16:07:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? I'm pretty sure I'm not the only atheist to think that your posts are not only inappropriate, but flat out intollerant.
Your behaviour annoys me because there are many issues in which religious groups *really* tend to assume intollerant positions against the rest of society (staminal cells research is the most prominent example), and this tendence is more difficult to fight if religious people are gratuitously attacked like you're doing in this thread.

Nobody pressed the FreeBSD project to get a new logo. It's a (wise, IMHO) choice they made, in order not to turn down any cultural, political or religious groups.
So, in this case, nobody's making a holy war except you. Please stop it. Wed, 09 Feb 2005 16:13:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? Well, I mentioned religious zealots in my post. I shouldn't have. I agree wholeheartedly with Claudio and others. This has nothing to do Christianity - zealots can be present on both sides (if we can speak of sides at all). For instance, I am not religious, but lately I have trouble saying that I am an atheist per se. Not because I begin to believe in supernatural powers. I don't. It is simply that whether one is open-minded or not is not decided/defined by an umbrella term (atheist/religious) but by his or her actions.

I have this friend who calls himself an atheist, and at every opportunity he engages in debates with religious people about the incorrectness of their worldview - whether they want to discuss the topic or not. Now it is not by chance that I choose to believe in what I believe - darwin, newton, s. hawking, etc. Whether I proclaim it or not I obviously consider the answers science provide better - just like a religious person considers his/her answers more acceptable. But it is entirely different when one acts like this guy does. Basically, his actions are very similar to pre 19th century religious "zealots" - their actions and his actions are the same in principle: "our view of the world is better than your view of the world" - and I'm going to show it in your face whether you asked it or not. Basically, what I mean to say is that Atheism can become religion for some folks, and ironically enough, they begin to act like witchhunters while openly declaring and believing that what they do is in the name of enlightenment and openness.

Sorry for the long rant, but I think it is a pity that half of this thread is about Christian/religion bashing (just read back some of the posts, they are no less arrogant than the arrogance they denounce in zealotry), and I apologize again if I contributed to this in my previous post. Wed, 09 Feb 2005 16:15:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? "and this tendence is more difficult to fight if religious people are gratuitously attacked like you're doing in this thread."

OK, sit down, do nothing and let them thump bibles against your head. Religion has to be fought against. Not because it needs to be destroyed or anything (it will die eventually, I mean its going to be only downhill for them), its a simple self defense measure. Wed, 09 Feb 2005 16:17:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? They are probably going to keep the Beastie mascot. The most likely reasons for the new logo will be a) to gain a more professional look and feel, and b) from a printing point of view beastie sucks. Marketing materials need to look professional, and having beastie with all his washed out colours just doesn't work. Wed, 09 Feb 2005 16:30:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? Jesus was totally against religion...did you know that? Look at how the Pharisees and Saducees hated him for what he was telling the people. Seems as though you and Christ have that in common... ;-)

You are confusing religion and belief. Jesus never believed in religion. It was about a RELATIONSHIP with him. (I'm just waiting for someone to make a mockery of this statement, as I've seen it happen before...wouldn't surprise me though.) A relationship with God's only son, if you believe the Bible as God's word and what it says.

And again, no one is saying you should. It's entirely up to you. But to force your "crusade" against those that do believe is just as bad as those who "crusaded" hundreds of years ago. Wed, 09 Feb 2005 16:37:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? Hmm,i must say i tried FreeBSD 4.3 for the first time because i liked that naughty play-mate.On the other hand i allways envied Gentoo for having such a professional and stylish logo at the same time.On the other hand a FreeBSD logo just as written that looks like it is chrome or cut out of a solid block of steel/cast iron could have something that appeals the vast majority of both worlds (as if there're two camps). Wed, 09 Feb 2005 16:50:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? >>Your behaviour annoys me because there are many issues in which religious groups *really* tend to assume intollerant positions against the rest of society (staminal cells research is the most prominent example), and this tendence is more difficult to fight if religious people are gratuitously attacked like you're doing in this thread. Wed, 09 Feb 2005 16:51:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? @molnarcs
I have to apologize for saying "and others..." while I was not remotely thinking of your post which is - as always - extremely balanced and measured. And FWIW yes, I think that defining as "zealot" somebody who hesitates to use FreeBSD because of a daemon logo is quite appropriate.. Come on, if that's not a zealot, who is. I think that even most of the religious people easily agree on this.
I was just disturbed by the intolerance and anti-religious anger of some other posts, that is silly and, above all, counterproductive.

@MvD
OK, sit down, do nothing and let them thump bibles against your head. Religion has to be fought against. Not because it needs to be destroyed or anything (it will die eventually, I mean its going to be only downhill for them), its a simple self defense measure.

Err.. in *this* occasion, nobody's thumping bibles against my head. When they do (and sometimes they actually do, as I said before), I fight, rest assured.
AFAIK, the FreeBSD project's decision has nothing to do with bible-thumping - it's their choice, nobody forced them. Correct me if I'm wrong. Wed, 09 Feb 2005 16:54:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? I hope Beastie will stick around for a long time. I think de ´s the most powerful mascot. Tux is good to but a bit corny:) What about Hexley, the Darwin Platypus, is he going to be striped of his red helmet and tripod? He seems banned from the Apple website and they make sure you have to go through a couple of clicks from the Mac OS X page before you even see the word Darwin. There is a variation of Tux I really like. That´s the Slackware Tux smoking a pipe:) Clearly has to be banned to if Slackware ever is going to make it as an enterprise OS;) Wed, 09 Feb 2005 17:01:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? "What I find really ironic is that the "enlightened" atheists are the least tolerant people, most hateful, self-righteous on this planet, and these "backwards" Christians are the foundation of freedom, acceptance and love in this world."

Really? Have you ever heard of the Christian crusades? How about the Salem witch trials. Gallileo might disagree with your ascertion as well. Has your priest been arrested for molestation lately. No. Maybe it was covered up. Extreme examples but it did/does happen.

The fact is people are responsible for zealotry, not any particular group including christians, atheists, or "insert belief/religion" here. There are going to be good and bad (I hate subjective terms) people in every segment of society.

Athiesm is simply a position. It does not mean they are anti religious or even concerned about another persons personal beliefs.

Also, people should brush up on the history of the daemon. Too much misinformation going around. Wed, 09 Feb 2005 17:04:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? If FreeBSD does get rid of Beastie, he'll still survive! There are legions of us devoted fans all around the world that will make sure of that. But please, PLEASE, don't let get rid of him. Adopt another logo if you want, but still keep him around! Wed, 09 Feb 2005 17:07:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? About my "staminal cells"... sorry, it's stem cells, of course. Very bad translation.

And btw
SubAtomic Toad wrote:
They are probably going to keep the Beastie mascot. The most likely reasons for the new logo will be a) to gain a more professional look and feel, and b) from a printing point of view beastie sucks. Marketing materials need to look professional, and having beastie with all his washed out colours just doesn't work.

I agree, especially with a) Wed, 09 Feb 2005 17:08:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? What made you think I don't see the difference between religion and belief? All I said was that religious BS has to be fought against. I am not going to sit around and let some bible thumper tell me what to do. And if my resistance makes them more angry, tough. I understand that FreeBSD did not change its logo because of bible thumpers (the majority of this segment of the population wouldn't about FreeBSD anyway), I was simply commenting on a "do nothing against religious nuts policy". The change of logo should be a good thing for FreeBSD as the new logo will hopefully be more corporate orientated, geeks will still be able to use the present mascot. Wed, 09 Feb 2005 17:10:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? I understand NetBSD wanting something to differentiate itself from FreeBSD, but as even a Reformation Christian, I get the joke of the mascot being a "demon," and I am not offended by it. Some of my brothers and sisters in Christ need to get a life and a sense of humor. Wed, 09 Feb 2005 17:15:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? I think the decision was a healthy one.Imagine a solely FreeBSD server room with more than 100 mounted racks and those little devils on them (anytime in my room,heh.).Maybe for commercial reasons it's wise to "mature" the logo a bit.

[i]Intolerance in any form is intolerable. Sorry. I'm tired of religious nuts shoving their beliefs down my throats. If they don't want to do research on stem cells, then they shouldn't. If they don't think abortions are right, then they shouldn't have them. But they damn well shouldn't be able to tell me that I can't. Fsck Them.[i/i]

Exactly!,however this thread is going very off topic.Correct me if i'm wrong but from the FreeBSD teams explanation i destil that their main concern isn't a religious offence but merely an commercial decision to give FreeBSD a more mature look.

One of their contest rules is roughly:The logo has to reflect what FreeBSD is.Now i'm curious to know what the people who let themselves go so easily see in the FreeBSD logo that reflect/represents the actual OS.

I like the logo,a lot,no doubt about it,but sometimes it is better for the whole,not to do what you like yourself but what's best in the overall interest.If that means changing the logo to get more execpted in areas where afterall the money tends to come from,that's fine.After all what's more important,the looks of a package or what's inside?I'm confident though the new logo could look as *solid* as the OS itself.That is if it is necessary to somewhat sacrifise the logo for an better acceptance,buisiness profile. Wed, 09 Feb 2005 17:18:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? Sry for the tags,lowers my acceptance heh. Wed, 09 Feb 2005 17:20:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? Why they should not change it is something mant people anwsered allready (while they shouldn't). Either you get either you don't. I am very dissapointed from the FreeBSD people in charge (haha)... Even if I didn't have the knowledge to be a hacker I felt very sad when what was called "hacker ethics" seemed to be lost. Now thinks like this on FreeBSD and NetBSD show that many geeks have lost the spirit and are good only on technology. The point is that all this was another way to express willingness to be absolutely free in a higher way of free (is this speech maybe?) anyway. goodbye. I suppose most people nowadays seem to understand nothing but technology. Sad day. Back to basics.

Hey average geek start to educate your self on the following (random order)

cyberpunk
politics
hacker ethics
post punk
punk
industrial
opression-depression from everyone
dislike for the above
being free
feeling free
why alien is perfect (H.R. Gigers alien)
....
....
...
etc

Sorry for bad english (sic) haha

morrons.

farewell (because goodbye is a too good word babe)

quiz for the average elit hacker: who told the last one? Wed, 09 Feb 2005 17:20:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? Since there seens to be a lot of FreeBSD users here, I was wondering if anyone would be interested in a front end to Ports, like Synaptic for Linux. I would like to create such a project, also can anyone think of a name? Wed, 09 Feb 2005 17:30:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? I don't blame the religious. I blame the spineless FreeBSD team for becoming overly politically-correct and doing something this stupid.

Instead of doing this, they should teach those who are offended to be more tolerant of OUR beliefs, customs, and ways. The beastie is tradition, it is the BSD custom.

Keep the fucking beastie or I will NEVER drop another dime into the FreeBSD piggybank. Wed, 09 Feb 2005 17:34:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? What annoys the hell out of me is that they scrap a perfect mascot to please a bunch of ignorant idiots just to be politically correct.

Its time for FreeBSD to move on and adapt a more professional logo so as to be taken seriously in business circles. Its the same reason you don not wear jeans and a Motley Crue T-Shirt to an interview. NetBSD's new logo is ALOT better then its old one. Wed, 09 Feb 2005 17:35:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? >>Your behaviour annoys me because there are many issues in which religious groups *really* tend to assume intollerant positions against the rest of society (staminal cells research is the most prominent example), and this tendence is more difficult to fight if religious people are gratuitously attacked like you're doing in this thread. Wed, 09 Feb 2005 17:35:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? Y'know BSD has been around a long time. It has history and Beastie is part of that history. Yes, it may be out of place now that America has become land of the dull and home of the literal but anyone who is offended by the logo can be told about BSD's roots and how the logo came to be.

I'm not a Christian but I wear a Swiss Army watch. The logo on this watch is a cross on a shield. I don't know the history of the logo but I wouldn't be suprised if the cross has something to do with Christianity. Regardless of the history of the logo I like the style and design of the watch. Every Swiss Army product I ever saw has this logo so I just take it as part of the brand's history and choose products based on their merits rather than their historical symbolism.

If FreeBSD fires Beastie we should fork a distribution of our own. We can call it TrueBSD (assuming this name isn't already taken) and dedicate it to the historical excellence of all operating systems that have been represented by the BSD Daemon. We can simply take the current FreeBSD OS and replace all the new graphics with the original daemon ones. Wed, 09 Feb 2005 17:41:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? Haha, what a lame argument.. In many ways tux is as non-corporate or un-professional - if you like that term better - as beastie is, however that hasn't stopped linux from making inroads into the corporate world..

Please make a better attempt next time. Wed, 09 Feb 2005 17:47:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? I like beastie. What i don't get is how you can think of beastie as being evil. Just look at him! Give a 5 year old a plushie of him and they will think he's cool. Wed, 09 Feb 2005 17:48:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? I'm all for a nice abstract logo, I mean it must be difficult printing a daemon on your letterhead. However they should keep the daemon as the mascot (just like tux is the mascot, but not logo of Linux)
I doubt the logo is a contributing factor to success however. Look at the two most successful linux distros : their logo's are a hat and a chameleon for christs sake.

Also I suspect the religious issue is a rationalisation on the part of the freebsd team. The stupid branch of christianity is definately spreading though - I think they just breed more than sensible people. (disclaimer: not all christians are bigots and in fact most advances in western science between 0 and 2000ad were done by christians ;-) ) Wed, 09 Feb 2005 17:53:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? Haha, what a lame argument.. In many ways tux is as non-corporate or un-professional - if you like that term better - as beastie is, however that hasn't stopped linux from making inroads into the corporate world..

Please make a better attempt next time.

Tux isn't visible in corporations moron, what is here is a bright Red Fedora! a perfectly acceptable Icon for Redhat linux.

And even if it is a stupid logo, you damn well know a contributing factor to this is the rise of right-wing conservative christian fundamoronism in the US. I for one am sick of it, and them.

I believe you are horribly mistaken. If i had a Bloody Jesus on a cross for the logo of my hypothetical OS i am sure the my Catholic customers would not have a problem with it. However if i wanted to be taken seriously in business markets i would abandon the logo for something less obtrusive. Wed, 09 Feb 2005 17:56:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? I just checked out the page and it says :

"As of 2005-02-09, competition is not yet announced, and received 0 submissions"

I also don't see the news anywhere else. Is this even official yet, or is it an osnews scoop ? Wed, 09 Feb 2005 17:59:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? who cares about that religious context stuff.. who in the right mind would think that is anti-christian. you see this cute little deamon Wed, 09 Feb 2005 18:01:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? Tux isn't visible in corporations moron, what is here is a bright Red Fedora! a perfectly acceptable Icon for Redhat linux.

lol. You mean the people who use linux in their companies are completely unaware that the mascot of linux is a penguine? I suggest you resync with the reality.. And in what way is a farking red hat or a chameleon more professional than beastie? I'm afraid the moron is you my friend.. Wed, 09 Feb 2005 18:05:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? I never understood why the same people that want to take prayer out of school because prayer has nothing to do with education are so adament about keeping the "demon" in FreeBSD even the the logo has nothing to do with FreeBSD. Just like prayer in school might offend some people, the "demon" might offend some people too. And you can argue about it and say the people who don't want to pray are just cry babies and should just take it like real man, or you can do the right thing and say prayer has nothing to do with education, let us take it out.
Now here is the situation with FreeBSD. The "deamon" in FreeBSD is bad because a) it offends some people and gives them a negative first impression and b) it is very unprofessional for companies in general. So why should we keep it? You can say people should be less sensitive, or you can weigh the costs of having it versus not having it.
Now you tell me, what do you get by keeping Beastie (in terms of technical excellence and capability of FreeBSD)? Wed, 09 Feb 2005 18:07:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? "(disclaimer: not all christians are bigots and in fact most advances in western science between 0 and 2000ad were done by christians ;-) )"

Is that a fact? Wed, 09 Feb 2005 18:11:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? ......most advances in western science between 0 and 2000ad were done by christians ;-)

I will respectfully disagree with that statement all religion in general has always been the bane of mankind. Wed, 09 Feb 2005 18:13:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? No prayer in school is not about 'offending' anyone. It is about being forced to take part in a ritual that you might not necessarily believe in. So it's there so going to school won't infringe on your freedom of religion. Wed, 09 Feb 2005 18:15:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? Well, any fairly complex ideology can be used and misused. Look at what the nazis did to Nietzsche. Christianity was often misused in the past centuries for various reasons: to keep the status quo for instance, to justify the king's power, to keep people in their place with promises of afterlife punishment/rewards, etc. Does that mean that the Bible or religious authors should be discarded as having no value? That is a pretty narrow-minded opinion. I have Freud, Nietzsche, and Schleiermacher, Kiergegaard (both deeply religous authors writing about religion and christian ethics - among others - respectively. Buddhism from a historical perspective doesn't fare any better than Christianity, although the overrepresentation of the priest cast (~25%) played out differently in Tibet. Does that mean that Buddha's Fire Sermon should be discarded? Finally: I was born in Roumania and now I leave in Hungary. Should I detail what was done in the name of Atheism and Cultural Materialism in Communist countries? Again, does that mean that we should not read Marx - one of the most original and insightful authors in the past 2 centuries?

Athiesm is simply a position. It does not mean they are anti religious or even concerned about another persons personal beliefs.

Agreed. However, just like any other fairly complex ideology, atheism will have its own share of zealots doing the same thing witchhunters did 2 centuries ago. Yes, I know they don't burn people, but that doesn't mean they won't if circumstances were the same. And it doesn't mean they didn't - and we don't have to go too far back in history to come up with examples when people were harrassed, abused, imprisoned or even killed because they were religious.

What I fail to see how bible thumpers came into the picture of this logo-contest. Or rather, I believe that we were too quick to jump to conclusions, and say that it must be because of those damn Christians. I believe the real issue is what Janeiro said:

RTFA, people:
"And this daemon character seems cute from somebody's point of view,
but somebody may think which does not suit for the professional
products to indicate that are using the FreeBSD inside."

while i think their mascot is fine, they obviously feel pressure from professional organizations to try to look more "professional" (whatever that means). any mention of religion is solely included for historical context and has nothing to do with their decision.

I really really like Beastie, as I said before. I think we should look for ways to modernize that image or make it more professional/logo like instead of discarding it.

As a side note: the fact that this thread turned into a debate about religions underlies the Project's point (even if it wasn't their point originally lol) more than anything else, which is quite ironic imho. Wed, 09 Feb 2005 18:20:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? Who decides whether the BSD mascot should be changed or not? Who owns BSD? They "owners" should tell the users so that we can decide if we use the OS or not. This "neo-con style" decision really gets in my nerves! At least we still got OpenBSD I guess..... Wed, 09 Feb 2005 18:21:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? ... however we have the opportunit to choose the next logo. Wed, 09 Feb 2005 18:23:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? amen brother Wed, 09 Feb 2005 18:31:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? I see my comment got modded down....ok, I veered from the topic somewhat...whatever.... :-p

Long story short....keep the Beastie...next?? Wed, 09 Feb 2005 18:32:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? This will sign the death of FreeBSD.

How could they believe such crap?! Who said beastie is evil?! This is totally non-sense, it's a logo, it's not the CD cover of a heavy-metal release...!

I think the reasons are the same as NetBSD. Do extremist Republicans threaten BSD distros?

The word "daemon" in greek means "server" (the person, not the hardware). This is neither good nor bad, if it has to be either one, then it's good.

Oh please, wake me up, it's a nightmare!!! Wed, 09 Feb 2005 18:32:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? "No prayer in school is not about 'offending' anyone. It is about being forced to take part in a ritual that you might not necessarily believe in. So it's there so going to school won't infringe on your freedom of religion."

And what exactly is the measure stick of "freedom of religion"? How come it was perfectly ok for public schools to have prayer for years? How come this was never seen as suppresing "freedom of religion" until recently. The measuring stick of freedom of religion is "offending" people. If noone was offended by it, it would still be there. Wed, 09 Feb 2005 18:37:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? I think this genie looks cool - and preservers something aboute the beastie aspect. Not to mention that the FreeBSD slogan was for a long time "The Power to Serve" and that fits nicely with a genie.

ftp://hatvani.unideb.hu/pub/FreeBSD/ADDONS/wallpapers/bsdgenie.jpg

Now I don't have this exact image in mind, but a simplified or logoified version of a genie (keep to horns as a reminder of beastie and the pitchfork). Also, colors are important. This is not exactly what I have in mind, but it is a good example for simplification -just the siluoutte of beastie in fire - which can loog good with a low color palette as well.

ftp://hatvani.unideb.hu/pub/FreeBSD/ADDONS/wallpapers/freebsd53.pn... Wed, 09 Feb 2005 18:39:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? Slash wrote:

[The beastie] is very unprofessional for companies in general.

Why? What makes it unprofessional? What makes a 'professional' logo? Wed, 09 Feb 2005 18:43:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? if the freebsd team has balls, they won't listen to the Bush extremist religious followers who want our world to be evil!

Don't listen to them! No way!! *THEY* are evil Wed, 09 Feb 2005 18:46:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? > [The beastie] is very unprofessional for companies in general.

Do you think a red hat or a cameleon looks any better? Wed, 09 Feb 2005 18:49:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? "What I find really ironic is that the "enlightened" atheists are the least tolerant people, most hateful, self-righteous on this planet, and these "backwards" Christians are the foundation of freedom, acceptance and love in this world."

You care to explain the many crusades and bloodfilled jihads done in the name of religion that have plagued mankind for many centuries that form the basis of most of the modern world today ?

Just another perfect example of living in a glass house.Put your stones down.

Peace Wed, 09 Feb 2005 18:57:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? What makes a good professional image?
A good professional image is a recognizable image of something that can be quickly associated with a company that offends no one. So yes, a red hat is a really good professional image. It is clearly recognizable. When seeing it, people quickly associate it with RedHat. And it is very neutral and unoffensive. Other good images are Nike, Sun, Coca-Cola, Microsoft (the Windows signature), Apple, and IBM. They all are very neutral symbols that people associate with the company. Wed, 09 Feb 2005 19:03:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? does anyone remeber the mac os x being evil thing.

the bite out of the apple logo
darwin kernel
first apple costing $666 or something

i think there were some more resons too

ssam Wed, 09 Feb 2005 19:06:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? I personally think that the "beastie" gives the wrong connotations about FreeBSD. The devil is a symbol that has traditionally been associated with evil and treachery. Is that really the kind of thing you want associated with FreeBSD?

I readily admit that the beastie is cute and well-drawn, but it really has nothing to do with FreeBSD, just as Tux has really nothing to do with Linux. Getting rid of it will be a shame, but it's not the end of the world.

To me, this is just like using a swastika. In some cultures, it's a symbol of peace and whatever... but to others, it has some very, very unpleasant connotations. Think of the logo contest as being culturally sensitive.

What's most disturbing is the number of people who immediately have used this to further their hatred of people who who have different beliefs than them. You should be ashamed of yourselves.

-Erwos Wed, 09 Feb 2005 19:14:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? "You care to explain the many crusades and bloodfilled jihads done in the name of religion that have plagued mankind for many centuries that form the basis of most of the modern world today ?

Just another perfect example of living in a glass house.Put your stones down.

Peace "

You care to explain the founding ideology of freedom and tolerance in democracies across the world. Do you care to explain why people believe that "freedom" is a fundamental God given right? It certainly wasn't atheism. There is no right or wrong in atheism. No one has any rights.

If you have been brainwashed to blame the Crusades on Christianity, please keep your mindless blathering to yourself. Do you care to find the any passages in the Bible that Jesus calls upon his people to go on crusades, slaughtering man, woman, and children? Don't blame Christianity on humanities evil. It wasn't Christianity that caused humanity to go to wars. People's evil and greed, in spite of Christianity speaking against it, caused them to go to war. There were many wars before the Christianity, and there will be many more after. Wed, 09 Feb 2005 19:17:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? I totally agree with you. Threads like these often show the hatred that a lot of people, that consider them self as ever so tolerant, hold against religion. A lot on not called for generalizations and rants are made going totally off topic. It's kind of turning into tha whole Ubunto default desktop theme discussion ;-)
I am a christian and I like the FreeBSD logo. It's too bad they are changing it, still it's just funny to see how a lot of people go to full frontal attack on christianity without having any background info about this case. Wed, 09 Feb 2005 19:28:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? (disclaimer: not all christians are bigots and in fact most advances in western science between 0 and 2000ad were done by christians ;-) )

Oh? In my experience, at least today, the gamut of religions scientists choose (for those that are religious) is quite diverse. However many scientists that I have read about and, at least a large majority of those I converse with, either hold no religion at all or are for the most part agnostic. It is my opinion a true scientist would not subscribe to a religion because religion requires you to reject scientific methodology, which every respectable scientist cares about deeply. One who tries to understand the world by applying the scientific method does not simply lay down that method when asked about the origin of life or the Universe. A true scientist would say "I don't know" when asked, because that is the truth, we do not know, nor can we "know" anything, but that is for another thread and this rant is quite off-topic.

About the daemon though, meh .. they can do what they want, it's their project, but they should not be surprised at the response given towards their decision. Many people recognize the project by that logo, most do not see any problem with the daemon, most do not see how a new logo could be an improvement over the old (especially since Beastie is already so established in the minds of many geeks). FreeBSD is an excellent operating system and, though I consider the decision to be silly, the success of a project is based upon the leaders' intelligence. I'll leave it at that. Wed, 09 Feb 2005 19:28:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? A good professional image is a recognizable image of something that can be quickly associated with a company that offends no one.

In other words it's so watered out that it really doesn't mean anything.

So yes, a red hat is a really good professional image. It is clearly recognizable. When seeing it, people quickly associate it with RedHat.

Only as long as you are aware that the company is named redhat.

And it is very neutral and unoffensive. Other good images are Nike, Sun, Coca-Cola, Microsoft (the Windows signature), Apple, and IBM. They all are very neutral symbols that people associate with the company.

Sorry to bust you bubble, but does nike have a logo? Can't be very good since I can't for the life of me remember how it looks.. Sun, Coca-Cola and IBM is only associable with their companies because it says it's basically the company name in a fancy style - even if the big blue logo is better since it has some symbolism built in. Maybe I don't know enough about the coca-cola company, but for me that logo doesn't mean squat. And finally, I could quite well imagine some religous nut-case taking offence at the macintosh apple with a bite in it.. or some feminist craving for publicity. But you are right, it's a good logo. ;-) Wed, 09 Feb 2005 19:28:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? HEH, the ad at the top of the page for this story was:
http://pagead2.googlesyndication.com/pagead/imgad?id=CMPajejA3oOMxQ...

(Oh, FreeBSD should, imho, keep the daemon as a mascot & get a new logo) Wed, 09 Feb 2005 19:30:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? "Sorry to bust you bubble, but does nike have a logo?"

Swoosh?
http://www.nike.com/nikebiz/nikebiz.jhtml?page=5&item=origin Wed, 09 Feb 2005 19:33:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? I think that they should create a new logo, like someone mentioned, featuring Beastie and yet not having it too obvious. Something simple like the Red Hat or the Suse chameleon or the Mandrake star or the Netbsd flag. Yet, Beastie should remain in stuff like artwork, wallpapers etc.
Take a look at Sun: they have the Java cup logo for corporate and ordinary users and the Duke mascot for us geeks. Yet nobody blamed them for not being serious.
In my opinion is has nothing to to with religion. However they don't want anything like the famous picture where Beastie is f**cking Tux or something even worse :-) Wed, 09 Feb 2005 19:39:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? *omg* how sad a fate! ;( Wed, 09 Feb 2005 19:39:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? hmm. I think you missed the point.. that I couldn't remember it. But of course that could be related to my total disinterest in sports gear. :-) Wed, 09 Feb 2005 19:39:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? "> [The beastie] is very unprofessional for companies in general.

Do you think a red hat or a cameleon looks any better? "

I think Suse's one is very nice indeed. It doesn't have to be a "serious" one, to be a serious company. Remember Apple ?? Ha, ha, one of the most known logo of the word Wed, 09 Feb 2005 19:42:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? if the freebsd team has balls, they won't listen to the Bush extremist religious followers who want our world to be evil!

Don't listen to them! No way!! *THEY* are evil

Wow there are some real low-brows that post here. I didn't know Ward Churchill posts on these forums! Wed, 09 Feb 2005 19:42:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? the javascript preview (topic) is broken. Wed, 09 Feb 2005 19:44:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? Has anyone else noticed the horrible grammer in the announcement text? I wonder if this is even an official idea, or perhaps the project of just one of the members on the core team. I looked through the mailing list and didn't really see any mention of it.

If it is real, I would just like to say, political correctness aside, that the current logo is fantastic. It may not be the sole reason why I decided to use FreeBSD, but it is most certainly what caught my eye to it and try it out. I was a bit disapointed when I heard about the logo change contest for NetBSD, and incredibly disapointed with their selection. The more "professional" looking logo that they decided upon seems wholy uninspired and boring. So on that note, I beg of you. Please do not change the logo. I have come to love this operating system, and I would hate to see what grabbed my attention to it in the first place just disapear. Wed, 09 Feb 2005 19:45:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? It certainly wasn't atheism. There is no right or wrong in atheism. No one has any rights.

Are you saying that an atheist has no values? No, sorry: this is unacceptable.

If you have been brainwashed to blame the Crusades on Christianity, please keep your mindless blathering to yourself. Do you care to find the any passages in the Bible that Jesus calls upon his people to go on crusades, slaughtering man, woman, and children? Don't blame Christianity on humanities evil. It wasn't Christianity that caused humanity to go to wars. People's evil and greed, in spite of Christianity speaking against it, caused them to go to war. There were many wars before the Christianity, and there will be many more after.

For Crusades, for Inquisition, for innumerable witch hunts and above all for *obstructing the path of science* and humiliating a lot of people whose only guilt was searching for the truth (Galileo, etc), I blame the Church. And I really don't know who on earth doesn't.

Look: your post is offensive - *very* offensive. I'm gonna click the report abuse thing, for both your post and mine (this one). You didn't start it, you were attacked and all, but what you're saying right now is unacceptable. I know that the "damn the christians!" posts started it all, and I'm sorry (even if I didn't write them), but what you're saying right now is unjustifiable.

Please, I appreciated what you wrote in other threads so I'm telling you: think of what you just said, and how unfounded it is. Wed, 09 Feb 2005 19:52:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? This whole professionalism reason is TERRIBLE

Whats possibly the most commonly used piece of OSS, non-server software in a corporate enviroment? Firefox. (actually, it might be OpenOffice.... not sure)

Which has a *cuddly fox* as its logo. A Devil wearing Converse sneakers is no more unprofessional than a fox.

I use FreeBSD in a corporate enviroment. Nobody ever makes comments about the devil - they KNOW its just a damn logo.

NetBSD needed a logo change because their old one was huge. FreeBSD has no real reason to change its logo. Wed, 09 Feb 2005 19:54:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? Just keep in mind that this is about a FreeBSD Logo .. Beastie is and will remain the FreeBSD Mascot ... there is a big difference between Logo and Mascot Wed, 09 Feb 2005 19:55:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? If you want your voice heard:

http://www.petitiononline.com/fbsdmsc1/petition.html

And spread the word. Thank you. Wed, 09 Feb 2005 19:56:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? Who cares what religious types think at all.
Religion has nothing to do with BSD's logo what so ever.
Why give two shi..hits about them?
I say make the bsd devil kneeling and praying to god or some other sarcastic approach.
Although if bsd changes the logo to say a cartoon jesus I will have to change my forum icons on the net to cartoon jesus indulgeing in anal sex with tux...lol.

If BSD changes there icon because of these religious fanatics soley....i lose all respect for there thinking entirely. Wed, 09 Feb 2005 20:04:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? Dead Wrong!!!!

Thats not the point.The point is that if you have angenda based on an ideology then that ideology has to be questioned.If i came and rob you of your money and said I did it in the name of Santa Claus then the philosophy of that agenda must be questioned for its validity even if that was not the original purpose.Nowhere in my original post i mentioned any particular religion.I was responding to comment made in reply.

How typical of zealots to act first then ask questions later.Its the likes of you that has been brainwashed as there many great examples of humanitarianism that have existed throughout the ages that had no religious linkages whatsoever.

Grow up and stop slinging around your religion when no one attacked you on it.We all have different beliefs and should be respected for that based on FACTS AND NOT EMOTIVE WHIMS.

Peace Wed, 09 Feb 2005 20:04:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? If changing the logo will help improve marketing for freebsd, I'm all for it. Wed, 09 Feb 2005 20:08:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? "Are you saying that an atheist has no values? No, sorry: this is unacceptable."

No, I am not saying that atheist's have no value. The vast majority of atheists are very nice, moral people. Most even behave "more Christians" than a lot of Christians.

I was merely saying that atheism get's it's value from within the person and not from a well defined outside source. Some atheists might believe that abortion is wrong. Some atheists might believe that homosexuality is wrong. Some atheists might believe that premarital sex is wrong. Some atheists might laugh at the idea of marriage and commitment. Some atheists might believe that freedom is granted and taken away by governments. There really isn't any outside authority defining what is wrong or right. People are right as long as they truly believe they are right. I'm sorry I offended anyone.
I was just making a point that "freedom", the way western civilization has defined it and the way we protect it, is a very Christian ideal. It is the belief that God has granted people free will and man/government has no right in taking it away. People have the choice of doing good and bad. People have the choice of worshipping God or not. It is not our place to "kill or force" anything upon others. What God has given man, let man not interfere with it.

"For Crusades, for Inquisition, for innumerable witch hunts and above all for *obstructing the path of science* and humiliating a lot of people whose only guilt was searching for the truth (Galileo, etc), I blame the Church. And I really don't know who on earth doesn't. "

Well, I belive it is wrong to blame it on the Church. You should blame it on the bias's and limited knowledge of the people back then. Christianity did not call for crusades, for witch hunts, for obstructing the path of science, for innumerable witch hunts. Read the teachings of Jesus Christ and please tell me anywhere that Jesus calls for this. As I said earlier, it is people's fear of the unknown, general lack of trust in God, evil, and greed that makes people behave immorally. And when they do, they will use whatever tool is available, even one that strictly tells them it is wrong to do what they are doing. Wed, 09 Feb 2005 20:17:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? Dont let this happen, goddamnit Any symbol could mean something religous and could affend people like for example, the pengquin in linux could affend nuns, this is nonsense, dont change the logo pleaseeee!!! Wed, 09 Feb 2005 20:21:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? It's pretty amazing in that looking over the posts from the religious and the anti-religious which side (religious) seems to explain their reasoning out in a cool and calming matter and which side (anti-religious) doesn't. It seems that the anti-religious people on here have a a lot of hatred in them from reading their writing. It's kind of scary really. Wed, 09 Feb 2005 20:21:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? If a more mature attitude is what there after then hey....just ditch his pitchfork for a pen and briefcase and put a business suit on the lil devil....simple really. Wed, 09 Feb 2005 20:22:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? "Do you care to find the any passages in the Bible that Jesus calls upon his people to go on crusades, slaughtering man, woman, and children?"

Jesus, perhaps not, but here's one from the Bible nonetheless, and since Jesus is God, it's his word, is it not? Don't give me that "separate but the same" nonsense either.


"Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live." (Exodus 22:18)

Along with that are MANY passages in the Old Testament where God commands the Israelites to butcher their enemies and sometimes innocents as well. And didn't HE send a plague killing the firstborn males to the Egyptians as well? Some of Christians need to stop igoring the Old Testament as if it weren't part of YOUR Bible. Wed, 09 Feb 2005 20:22:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? This is a rejection of the freedom FBSD stands for. This is political tripe; stuff like this belongs in political circles (like GNU) not in BSD's.
I'm a Christian, and I do not find it offensive in any way. I find is creative and I think it made a lot of sense.

I for one will be sorry to see Daemon go, and I hold no respect for this decision's basis. Had they simply said:
"We're bored of Daemon, it's getting old; let's make something new."
Then I would stand behind this. But they've cited that some idiot (and I do not use this term lightly) has found this offensive, for this I am against this change.

Please don't become politically correct in a day when people are finally seeing how dumb political correctness is.

"Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary (1913)"
Dumb Dumb, a. AS. dumb; akin to D. dom stupid, dumb, Sw.
dumb, Goth. dumbs; cf. Gr. ? blind. See Deaf, and cf.
Dummy.
1. Destitute of the power of speech; unable; to utter
articulate sounds; as, the dumb brutes. Wed, 09 Feb 2005 20:23:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? "It's pretty amazing in that looking over the posts from the religious and the anti-religious which side (religious) seems to explain their reasoning out in a cool and calming matter and which side (anti-religious) doesn't."


Hmmm, see if my post above was calm, cool and collected enough for you. Wed, 09 Feb 2005 20:24:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? [quote]the pengquin in linux could affend nuns,[/quote]


Lol@the blues brothers movie:) Wed, 09 Feb 2005 20:24:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? This is political correctness (idealogy based bullying) gone mad -- I can't believe someone is seriously suggesting that Beastie has to go because others alegedly "misinterpret" one of the Webs oldest and most loved logos. Wed, 09 Feb 2005 20:29:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? Looks as though Beastie shall remain the mascot. But as I mentioned before, the LOGO does need some adjustment. :-) Wed, 09 Feb 2005 20:39:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? How about a Jesus in a red superman suit with a trident in his hands. That would please everybody and lead to more utilization of BSD by religious folks. Wed, 09 Feb 2005 20:41:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? Well, that's good. I really think the way "FreeBSD" is written in the graphics is old. They need a new look. Their site is so.. 90s.. ;-)

The beastie is apart of the logo though, so I don't think it will be displayed as often as it has before. Ohwell though, as long as something look professional. Wed, 09 Feb 2005 20:49:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? A little bit of the truth is nessicary.

I think this new logo idea is a failed attempt to make the BSD's more marketable, like GNU/Linux.

The reason why FreeBSD is not being adopted as much as Linux is because Linux systems are better: better performance and better features, and is stable similar to FreeBSD.

Personally I used to use FreeBSD and liked it; though changing the logo will not make the system more advanced or user-friendly, coding a graphical installer and working on smpng will. Wed, 09 Feb 2005 20:53:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? [quote]How about a Jesus in a red superman suit with a trident in his hands. That would please everybody and lead to more utilization of BSD by religious folks.[/quote]



Only if the jesus was a black muslim woman! Wed, 09 Feb 2005 20:54:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? i don't see all the need for the religious and anti-religious stuff.

I mean it's obvious that the mascot is just a friendly thing that is supposed to make sense of the actual services on the OS. It's clear that the foundation is not ant-religious weither it be islam, christianity, your neighborhood cult, etc.

Mostly people "think" it will offend masses but in reality only offends a slight few. I personally feel that If my company had a mascot like freebsd does and customers got offended while we promoted peace and open development that i wouldn't want those customers. That's just me though. Wed, 09 Feb 2005 20:55:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? make a 'OhLordBSD' and change the logo.
Leave FreeBSD intact!!!!!!!!!!!!! Wed, 09 Feb 2005 20:58:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? Thanks for your clarification about atheism. But I really think that your vision of history and society, with regards to the topics you touched in your post, is far from objective: basically, you suggest that Christianity should somehow be credited for the values of freedom at the basis of our society, but it shouldn't be blamed for the past where these same values were totally ignored.
My view is quite the opposite: the values of freedom on which our society is founded come from classical liberalism (that has little to do with the meaning of the world "liberal" today: I'd say it has more to do with libertarianism), that is a way of thinking that was developed in the last one, maybe two centuries. Christianity has been there for 2000 years. How can Christianity be credited for liberalism?
The people from the Church *weren't* on the front line in establishing a society founded on liberal (=libertarian) values. OTOH, they *were on the front line* in many gross wrongdoings: obstructing science and humiliating Galileo because his findings weren't in line with their literal interpretation of the Bible are just minor examples.

My point is, if somebody behaves like a zealot and attacks you, please don't go down on the same level. You can't fight zealotry with zealotry, in that way everybody loses. Wed, 09 Feb 2005 21:26:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? adam wrote the following nonsense:
"The reason why FreeBSD is not being adopted as much as Linux is because Linux systems are better: better performance and better features, and is stable similar to FreeBSD."


What's New in the FreeBSD Network Stack (Sep 2004)
http://bsd.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=04/09/04/133253&tid=122&...
"FreeBSD can now route 1Mpps on a 2.8GHz Xeon whilst Linux can't do much more than 100kpps."

FreeBSD, Stealth-Growth Open Source Project (Jun 2004)
http://www.internetnews.com/dev-news/article.php/3367381
"FreeBSD has dramatically increased its market penetration over the last year."

Nearly 2.5 Million Active Sites running FreeBSD (Jun 2004)
http://news.netcraft.com/archives/2004/06/07/nearly_25_million_acti...
"[FreeBSD] has secured a strong foothold with the hosting community and continues to grow, gaining over a million hostnames and half a million active sites since July 2003."


You can go back home now, dear troll. HAND Wed, 09 Feb 2005 21:33:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? In tribute of Free BSD and Beastie I was inspired to create this image out of an old Black Sabbath album cover.

http://www.west.net/~bcid/bsd.jpg

Long live beastie! Wed, 09 Feb 2005 21:36:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? Save chuck! screw the religious zelots. what makes them think they can run things. you can keep your jesus i want my beasti.

my logo: I really hope this pisses someone off.

http://homepage.mac.com/epochof7/3915422570.jpg

Enjoy. Wed, 09 Feb 2005 21:48:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? This is truly sad, pathetic and depressing. Nobody forced the FreeBSD core team to do this. There are a multitude of companies and individuals that embraced FreeBSD with Beastie, and many more would do so in the future. (Yahoo being one of many examples.)
There is absolutely no justification for this decision and
this is a prime example of people willingly censoring themselves at the price of free speech and liberty. And for what? Just cause someone might be offended?
I hope FreeBSD contributers stop participating in the project and organize a world wide boycott untill the desicion is reversed. Someone sugested a fork and if that's what it takes then so be it. Lets put the "Free" back into
FreeBSD. Wed, 09 Feb 2005 22:09:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? I am hard pressed to believe FreeBSD 5.3 can route better than Linux 2.6. Especially enlight of this benchmark.

http://software.newsforge.com/software/04/12/27/1243207.shtml?tid=1...

Seriously, I was not trolling; I just don't think a logo will bring any positive publicity to FreeBSD or open new markets. It will just alienate alot of people. Wed, 09 Feb 2005 22:12:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? I am hard pressed to believe FreeBSD 5.3 can route better than Linux 2.6. Especially enlight of this benchmark.

http://software.newsforge.com/software/04/12/27/1243207.shtml?tid=1.....

Supersmack is a MySQL benchmark and have NOTHING to to with routing performance. You seriously need to learn about benchmarking. Wed, 09 Feb 2005 22:26:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? I think thats a terrible idea personally.
If people are so afraid, why don't they just go use DragonflyBSD or make a "CommercialBSD" or something.
BSD/OS was out there for years... Wed, 09 Feb 2005 22:57:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? I think thats a terrible idea personally.

You mena the LOGO contest, I assume.
I genuinely think Beastie is excellent, BUT Beastie is a MASCOT, not a LOGO. FreeBSD currently does not have a LOGO!

So I actually think it is an excellent idea.

If people are so afraid, why don't they just go use DragonflyBSD or make a "CommercialBSD" or something.
BSD/OS was out there for years...

Afraid of what? And what has Dragonfly got to do with it?
FreeBSD is growing in popularity not diminishing. It's just that it's been decided that FreeBSD need more, better advocacy and a proper logo helps with that.

Beastie is NOT going anywhere. Beastie is too closely identified with FreeBSD and most users and developers are way too fond of him and his deamonettes.

It's been said before but obviously need to bee repeated, It's a new LOGO contest NOT a MASCOT contest.

Now I'm going to my drawinboard to make my first submission... Wed, 09 Feb 2005 23:21:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? the daemon got to go. I never liked demon figures, and quite welcomed NetBSD's recent new logo. Wed, 09 Feb 2005 23:29:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? Supersmack is a MySQL benchmark and have NOTHING to to with routing performance. You seriously need to learn about benchmarking.


If you read my post I said I doubted that to be true, and I still do right now. I would like to see a benchmark comparing the routing prowless of Linux using a "zero copy" driver vs FreeBSD under similar circumstances.

This is not a packaged "freebsd is dieing" troll, or any type of troll. So I do not need a packaged response with the typical netcraft and stealth growth links. Wed, 09 Feb 2005 23:29:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? At least this news post showed me who is really tolerant and it ain't most of you.

They are looking for a new LOGO! Businesses do this all the time.

Get off your benches are catch a clue. Wed, 09 Feb 2005 23:40:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? They are looking for a new LOGO! Businesses do this all the time.


FreeBSD is not a business. Thu, 10 Feb 2005 00:46:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? If they don't want to touch the mascot, then why do they say the current logo is not politically / not religiously correct? If you take the mascot out of the logo, then it's only a simple font. They wouldn't say so, then.

They imply that the mascot is part of the logo and is the problem.

They are utterly wrong. They should listen to their base of users. Thu, 10 Feb 2005 01:38:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? It's amazing how all of you can type when how few of you can acctually read. Thu, 10 Feb 2005 02:40:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? misunderstood in "religious and cultural context"? Give me a break, nobody understands the relation between a devilish figure and unix daemons.

User: "Daemon? What's a daemon?"

It's a cute joke only understood by programmers. When I use FreeBSD with customers, I always make sure noone sees the logo. Thu, 10 Feb 2005 02:41:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? Beastie is about the best OS logo around, my 10 year old daughter wants to switch from Linux to FreeBSD because of Beastie. That's got to be worth something these days when not too much seems to matter other than cool brands... Thu, 10 Feb 2005 03:00:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? I don't see what anyone has against FreeBSD's getting a new logo; there is no logo to speak of yet so nothing's going to be replaced, the much-loved mascot will not change.

I think this is an excellent idea and wish designers all the best with inspiration. Thu, 10 Feb 2005 03:11:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? If you read my post I said I doubted that to be true, and I still do right now. I would like to see a benchmark comparing the routing prowless of Linux using a "zero copy" driver vs FreeBSD under similar circumstances.

Yes, but you used a benchmark that tells you absolutely nothing about routing perfornmance. You said:
"Especially enlight of this benchmark..."
Which means you put Supersmack performance into some theoretical routing performance which they have no relevance for at all. Doubt all you want but base those doubts on relevant data.

Kindof like recent benchmarks of NetBSD where microbenchmark performance was turned into theoretical macro performance completely ignoring the fact that one can optimize for macro performance i.e. actual workload.

Nothing wrong with the benchmarks but realize that they tell you squat about other aspects of performance i.e. routing throughput. It was not Linux that was used to break the land speed record for instance, but using that Supersmack benchmark, as some base for theoretical network throughput, one would hardly guess NetBSD was used.

This is not a packaged "freebsd is dieing" troll, or any type of troll. So I do not need a packaged response with the typical netcraft and stealth growth links.

Uh, I think you're mixing my comments with someone elses (ulibs perhaps?). Please don't do that. I never said you were a troll. Thu, 10 Feb 2005 04:55:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? Tux finally killed the Beastie.

Who will be the next? Thu, 10 Feb 2005 08:18:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? First, yes I know that Beastie is not actually going away; I just felt I had to point this out.

I am a Christian, and I don't find the image of Beastie offensive in the least. That's because, unlike most Christians out there, I have actually read the Bible. While the Bible doesn't actually describe demons in great detail, it does say that they are fallen angels. Lucifer/Satan himself was the most beautiful of the heavenly angels. Therefore, demons look just like angels, because they are angels.

So, I don't find a little red guy with a pointed tail, horns and a pitchfork offensive at all. But then, I'm not your average Christian...I think for myself too much. Thu, 10 Feb 2005 08:20:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? The Beastie is cool!!! I do not agree change the FreeBSD's logo. Thu, 10 Feb 2005 11:25:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? isso não pode ser possivel, motivos "religiosos" e "culturais" não podem levar a troca de um logo, o beastie é a marca do freebsd e sempre será assim.

e temos que levar em conta que hoje o freebsd é usado em todo mundo, e pelo seus motivos vocês estão levando somente em conta, a opnião de pessoas cristãs e provalvelmente americanas(patéticos criadores de guerra).

e o resto do mundo, não se leve em conta?
e o respeito e a opnião de todos aqueles que o usam?

tenho certeza que a maior parte daqueles que veem o beastie, o entendem como um persongem, e não como uma ofença a uma religião e cultura, ja que volto a afirma que vocês estão levando em conta somente em conta a opnião cristã e americana(patéticos criadores de guerra).

o que eu acho q deveria ser feito, como reafirmo que o freebsd é usado em todo mundo, é que seja feita uma pequena pesquisa, e vocês verão que o beastie não desrespeita nenhum valor religioso e muito menos cultural.

afinal de contas, vocês sabem como o inferno e a besta surgiram?
vocês sabem quantas pessoas no mundo acreditam em sua existemcia?

então não levem em conta somente a opnião dos seus vizinhos, e sim a daqueles que usam o freebsd, e também a daqueles que estão envolvidos em seu desenvolvimento! Thu, 10 Feb 2005 14:05:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? /me climbs aboard the Good Ship Righteous Indignation and joins the discussion:
From what I can see, nowhere (apart from in Eugenia Loli-Queru's Summary/Editorial) is there any mention of 'misunderstading', 'culture' or 'religion'. All I can see is a feature saying there will soon be a competition, that Beastie will not be leaving and thats about it.
All mentions of Christianinty, Atheism, Intolerance etc are brought here by the posters, not the article or the competition.
End Note: Tell it to the BSD team. Thu, 10 Feb 2005 16:45:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? You know, let's not use the mascot change of FreeBSD to bash Christianity or conservative minded people, because as I recall most of the protests to change both pro and collegiate sports mascots came from liberally minded people, so it's kinda funny to hear someone liberally minded to complain about some supposed opposition to the current FreeBSD mascot, the beastie without any basis in fact. I guess since the mascot looks like the devil then someone with a knee jerk reaction would think well the only people that would be opposed to this would be religious groups? Is there any proof to back this up or is it just some half baked assumption being used as an excuse to go Christian bashing?
I read the criteria for which the new icon would meet and yes it does sound politically correct, but offending Christians is also politically correct because as it seems that in the dominant media you will be burned at the stake if you say something negative towards about a minority or special interest group, but there is certainly no reservation whatsover to bash Christians. It might also be interesting to note that Jews and Muslims also believe in Hell and im going to assume they also believe there is a devil and since everyone is tiptoeing to be sensitive to Muslims (just so u know I am respectful of their religon, but not the twisted version practiced by terrorists), what is the complaint about changing the mascot then? Thu, 10 Feb 2005 18:25:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments