http://www.osnews.com/story/9707/EXCLUSIVE_Linspire_Five-0_First_Look Exploring the Future of Computing en-us Copyright 2001-2009, David Adams adam+nospam@osnews.com Tue, 10 Nov 2009 09:24:25 GMT http://www.osnews.com/images/osnews.gif http://www.osnews.com http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? The early beta version is quite good, but I won't judge until it will materialize into the final with support and the like. Mon, 14 Feb 2005 05:27:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? While the screenshots I have seen of Linspire, both 4.5, and the new 5.0 beta, don't inspire me too much, I have to say that it does seem that Linspire does walk the open source walk. They do seem to be doing their bit to support the development of open source apps (like Nvu)... so at least they are giving back. Good on them. Mon, 14 Feb 2005 05:35:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? I just wonder if the mentioned "pay" apps make playing DVDs in Linux legal just like how TurboLinux did with 10F? I know it is quite easy to do this on any Debian system (although results are not always the same), but I was just wondering about how Linspire took this approach. Mon, 14 Feb 2005 05:40:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? Linspire has paid all the royalties for their commercial DVD playing program, so everything is legal.

Also, Linspire does in fact have the ability to play DVDs by default, just not locked DVDS, such as The Matrix and pretty much every other DVD movie. Mon, 14 Feb 2005 05:46:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? Linspire does a great deal to promote open source and further desktop Linux as a viable platform, it is amazing to me that it is still necessary to mention it. For a young company that has yet to turn a profit they are doing more than any other commercial distribution I know of. It's a shame that their reputation in the F/OSS community does not mirror their contributions.

http://info.linspire.com/opensource/ Mon, 14 Feb 2005 05:50:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? Linspire does in fact have the ability to play DVDs by default, just not locked DVDS,

Thanks Alex. I've added that note to the part about DVDs. Mon, 14 Feb 2005 05:50:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? The reason you couldn't mount the second "NTFS" drive, is that from your first screenshot, it's clear that the second disk, is a Microsoft Dynamic Disk. That's not the same as "simple" Disk Layout.. Mon, 14 Feb 2005 06:09:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? I believe you're mistaken about the "no ftp client". The reason they didn't include a dedicated ftp client is because they already have two that are very serviceable: Mozilla and Konqueror. Without a bittorent client there would be no way to access a torrent, but ftp can easily be used using the above apps. Mon, 14 Feb 2005 06:16:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? I thought the review was good and fair. I have been using Linspire since it was Lindows and I also run red hat on another machine.

The point that I think the review missed, just the reference by the reviewer of having to do some hand install/uninstall of products, is that Linspire is trying to make the Linux system idiot proof and usable by anyone. People complain MS crap is allover and Linux is better. I agree Linux is 10 times better. But what the Linux community needs to understand if they ever wish to see it overpower MS, is that it has to be EASY! This is what Linspire is trying to do. Not everyone is techie and can or wants to manually have to go make mods to get something working. Besides that to try to tell a consumer there are 5+ variations of Linux confuses the hell out of them.
So with any luck Linspire will continue to improve and people will start using it on their desktops instead of MS. :-) The only reason MS ever got adopted is they did a good job of copying Apple's UI. Without that, they would still be trying to get market share with MS-DOS :-) So think of it like this -- Linux has in the past and even up till Linspire -- been like MS-DOS to the general consumer. Linspire now is becoming better then Windows and can bring Linux into the mass market....

Just my 2 cents. Also I am just a fan of Linspire and have no vested interested in the company other then to see it wipe MS's marketshare away :-) :-) Mon, 14 Feb 2005 06:22:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? Rob, that was just an oversight of the reviewer. It is quite easy to uninstall software through CNR.

Simply right click an installed product in the "My Products" or "Status" sections and you have the option to uninstall with a single mouse click. You may also choose to add to autorun, add a desktop shortcut or perform other tasks through the right click menu.

The reviewer also has a minor typing error:

"These days, the CNR method, pioneered, or least least first delivered, by Linspire, is more common."

There shouldn't be two "least" in that sentence. Mon, 14 Feb 2005 06:36:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? I've tried Linspire 4.5 and one of my largest annoyances was the inability to uninstall applications provided in the base install through click-n-run or some other easy/documented utility ["easy/documented" as in you'd know about this utility from Linspire and not from being familiar with Debian and Apt]. Its quite ironic that while linux users complain that the basic end-user can't remove IE from windows, I found it just as impossible for a basic end-user to uninstall the Mozilla Seamonkey Suite from Linspire. Its really too bad that hasn't changed in Five-O.

Overall I like these kinds of distributions, and what they are trying to accomplish. However when certain basic things are hard to do like uninstalling base software in Linspire, or sharing a file/directory in Ubuntu, it gives the overall feeling that the user is placed in some kind of candy-coated-sandbox to make Linux user friendly. Mon, 14 Feb 2005 06:38:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? I clicked the first screenshot without reading anything and went "HOLY SHIT this is SUCH a Windows-GUI RIPOFF, they should be SUED!".. And after a while my newly-woken-up mind understood that i was looking at a Windows screenshot. ..

Haha, funny how the mind works at 07am. Mon, 14 Feb 2005 06:54:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? I wouldn't recommend using apt-get with Linspire as it will break CNR, making it impossible to properly update the OS and receive future upgrades. I think libc6 is one of the main show-stoppers here. If you use Linspire you're pretty much locked into the $ubscription CNR service. Mon, 14 Feb 2005 07:07:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? Thanks for taking a look at Linspire Five-0.

I'd like to give some additional information that might prove useful to your readers about this BETA version.

1. Thanks for mentioning that this is a Beta version. In fact, Beta V is already out and is the version we handed out at the Desktop Linux Summit. There are still several changes to come before the final release. For example, some of the sound, NTFS mounting, video and other hardware issues you have we know won't be a problem in the final release.

2. All of the Tutorials have been redone for Five-0 but were not included yet in Beta IV, so yes, you were looking at the old ones.

3. The DVD is $4.95 via CNR because we have to pay royalties for the licensed codecs.

4. We wanted to include a Bittorrent client right inside the OS, because we're doing some cool things with Bittorrent here at Linspire and our users will appreciate being able to use some of the new things we'll be doing with just one click because it's now built into the OS. As for FTP, that is built into our file manager, and several dedicated FTP clients are available via CNR (click n run).

5. As for not having more software in the core OS, that's VERY MUCH intentional. WE HATE BLOAT! BLECH!!! We don't like shipping with 5 IM clients, 3 web browsers, 5 media players, etc. etc. etc. We INTENTIONALLY keep Linspire light with the core, basic applications most everyone will need. HOWEVER...we also offer around 2,000 other software programs that can be installed WITH JUST ONE CLICK using CNR. Keep in mind, that ANY Linspire user can register for a free 14-day CNR trial. So, a user can simply install Linspire (in about 10 minutes), and then over the next 14 days, use CNR to their hearts content to add anything they think might be missing (their favorite FTP client, different browser, different email client, etc.). Heck, they can install all 2,000 apps for all we care! Once their 14-day trial is over, they keep all the software they've installed. We think this is a much cleaner approach than installing a bunch of software the user may never use. Does he really need FIVE email clients??? =)

6. If you want Firefox, you can simply install it with CNR. However, there are a lot of nice features in the Linspire Internet Suite that are not yet in Firefox, such as in-line spell checking (for example, as I make this post, Linspire corrects my spelling AS I TYPE and even offers suggestions on how to spell words properly), Hot Words, MailMinder, etc. We've made over 100 improvements to Mozilla that are not yet in Firefox. Firefox still has some catching up to do in many areas before we'll use it as the default. My guess is that by the time we release Linspire 6.0, Firefox will be up to speed with all the enhancements we've made to our Internet Suite as well as Thunderbird be ready for use as a default email client. We're working with the Mozilla developers to try and bring all the enhancements we've made to web browsing and email to Firefox and Thunderbird. Yes, Firefox is better than IE and stock Mozilla, but it doesn't have all the features yet of our Internet suite.

7. Uninstalling software with CNR is super easy. Simply launch CNR, click on the "My Products" tab which will list all software you have installed on your machine, highlight the program you want to uninstall, and click on the Uninstall button. CNR will then uninstall the software, remove it from the menus, desktop icons, etc. CNR installs, updates and uninstalls software with one click.

I hope this helps clear up a few things.

Thanks,

Kevin Carmony
President, Linspire, Inc. Mon, 14 Feb 2005 07:08:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? There exists almost no forward thinking in the Linux community. Everything is a horrible 2nd class rip-off of Windows. Here's a hint: When you constantly copy off somebody else, you'll always be at least one step behind who you're copying off of. Currently Windows is 4 years behind. This makes you 5 years behind, MINIMALLY! I'm sorry, after all these years, KDE still looks chintzy. Switch to GNOME for heaven's sake! Mon, 14 Feb 2005 07:13:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? So, it is false claim that all there is no modern comercial OS without DVD playback. Almost all OSes is - because of royalities. Mon, 14 Feb 2005 07:21:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? "How can this be that a commercial OS doesn't include DVD playback?"

Rather like the way WinXP doesn't include a DVD player then? Mon, 14 Feb 2005 07:41:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? That's caused by how the fake transparency feature of KDE works. It takes a snapshot of the underlying area before opening the (next) menu. Mon, 14 Feb 2005 07:58:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? ..sick of seeing comments like this..

"When you constantly copy off somebody else, you'll always be at least one step behind who you're copying off of."

What exactly has KDE ripped off? What of Windows/OSX/(insert OS of choice here) is actually original and/or unique? Seen shots of Longhorn recently? Remind you of anything?

To say one OS is a RIPOFF of another is just self-delusional. They ALL copy from each other. Always have. Always will. Mon, 14 Feb 2005 08:05:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? Wakeupneo wrote:


..sick of seeing comments like this..

"When you constantly copy off somebody else, you'll always be at least one step behind who you're copying off of."

What exactly has KDE ripped off? What of Windows/OSX/(insert OS of choice here) is actually original and/or unique? Seen shots of Longhorn recently? Remind you of anything?

To say one OS is a RIPOFF of another is just self-delusional. They ALL copy from each other. Always have. Always will.


Really? NeXTStep/Openstep comes to mind as an example of an OS designed ahead of its time so much so that people either loved it or despised it.

OS X has a ways to go to leverage stuff NeXT worked on but never released. Steve has the enviable position of so much forward thinking he can slowly add it.

Other companies don't have this luxury so yes Linux/Windows worlds do copy and often poorly the ideas of NeXT and now Apple.

GNUstep is not NeXTstep though the folks are doing great working reaching many of its abilities. Kind of hard to hire Keith Ohlfs on beer.

NeXTstep allowed one to switch seemlessly between a single office system to a global network. Nothing like working at NeXT and being able to log into any system to get some work you need for say a support call, a client demonstration or group collaboration without having to drop everything and return to your system. This of course has to do with the design of one's network but what Apple can demonstrate, for the Enterprise and more is that its operating system works around the network design instead of designing the network around the operating system. Mon, 14 Feb 2005 08:22:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? "On the subject of DVDs, I could not find a way to play any DVDs on my Linspire system. I later discovered that in order to download the Linspire DVD Player, one must cough up another 4.95."
Oh the horror! Who could possibly fathom the concept of having to pay for software in the Linux world? This is exactly why the commercial software makers won't touch Linux with a 40 foot pole. Everyone wants everything for free.

"Of course, we can all agree that this is a ridiculous way for a DVD to work, and of course, it will only play the .vob file you click on. How can this be that a commercial OS doesn't include DVD playback?"
Yes. All of us. We surveyed the planet and found that 5 billion people all agreed with the author. It makes perfect sense to me why Lindows would want to make their commercial DVD product a separate purchase just see point 1 above. If they included it in the OS by default everyone would pirate the shite out of it and Lindows would be paying millions in licensing fees for the commercial DVD codecs. It's really not that big of a deal to spend $5 bucks on a DVD player is it?! If it is --then you can kiss goodbye all hope that a company like Adobe is going to come along and make a Linux version of Photoshop. Mon, 14 Feb 2005 08:33:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? I agree, it's silly that any modern, user-friendly OS wouldn't come with a DVD player. The fact that Windows XP doesn't either doesn't make it acceptable, and average users can much more easily install a free player on Windows than on Linux.

Linspire should at least include a free player like VLC, or a function to install such a player if there's some reason they can't put it on the disc.

Also, it looks like Linspire is making laudable progress with their "L" suite. But to be honest, the screenshot for Lphoto looks awful. They really need to polish the interface, it looks nowhere near as nice and usable as iPhoto or Picasa, even if the functionality is buried there somewhere. Mon, 14 Feb 2005 08:37:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? one thing which I have always wonder is why there are so big & so many icons on taskbar by default?
Have a look at any screen shot from this article. (is applicable to almost all mainstream distros)

it really kills if you have a 15" monitor. (not everyone can afford 19" & there are people out there who can use money saved on monitor for important things)

atleast they should give the windows like quicklaunch grouping out of the box or you should be given a choice of lite or enhanced taskbar at the welcome tutorial

just my thoughts Mon, 14 Feb 2005 08:38:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? "It's really not that big of a deal to spend $5 bucks on a DVD player is it?!"

It's an extra, needless step that costs time and money when there are already free, reverse-engineered Linux DVD players available. You may not mind paying $5, but it's still a valid complaint for many people.

"If it is --then you can kiss goodbye all hope that a company like Adobe is going to come along and make a Linux version of Photoshop."

Playing a DVD is trivial. Doing complicated design work is not trivial, and professionals will always pay for the tools they need. The comparison between the two is moot. Mon, 14 Feb 2005 08:41:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? "...there are already free, reverse-engineered Linux DVD players available."
In other words: ILLEGAL IN THE US right? What commercial company is going to install this in their OS and paint a target on their forehead so they can get sued into oblivion by the MPAA and the DVD-CCA? Mon, 14 Feb 2005 08:45:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? From the screenshots, the desktop is still ugly and cheap-looking. I think they need to hire some better designers, or at least take a closer look at the Xandros desktop. Heck, Fedora looks 10 times better. It's still a beta though, so I'll give them the benefit of the doubt.

I also agree that including Firefox instead of "Internet Suite (Mozilla)" would be a better idea. Firefox is starting to become well known, and has continuously been praised in the news. The Internet Suite seems redundant.

I love Lsongs and Lphoto. They are great projects for Linspire to be working on and it's cool that they're giving back to the community. I'm very surprised I haven't seen them included in other distributions. Mon, 14 Feb 2005 08:56:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? G'day Marc,

I understand and agree with what you're saying. But, I was looking at it from more of a 'look-and-feel' perspective, rather than the technologies behind the GUI. The repetitive comments about how the Gnome (less so nowadays) and KDE Gui's are a direct ripoff of Windows is getting a bit old...

Anyway, on topic, I downloaded and tried Linspire 4.5 when OSNews ran an offer a while back. Not bad, but Suse is a bit more to my taste. I do, however, need a distro to push to friends who ask me about taking the Linux plunge for the first time. Looks like Linspire 5.0 might be worth considering for this purpose.

Cheers. Mon, 14 Feb 2005 09:00:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? You cannot include VLC (or any other unauthorized program that circumvents DVD encryption) as parrt of a core distribution, if you are based in a country like the United States that has laws like the DMCA. You'd be shut down so fast your head would spin.

Same goes for other patent encumbered media codecs, like mp3 audio. Mon, 14 Feb 2005 09:23:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? Why in an apple zealots eyes is everyone just ripping off apple? Everyone to them is just stealing ideas left and right from apple. Next you will say apple used preemptive multitasking and smp before anyone else. Mon, 14 Feb 2005 09:50:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? Anyone know if it supports 'g' type wireless pci cards. I installed Linspire 4.5 on my PC but can't get the wireless to work. Can't work out how to use nswrapper with an .exe driver either. Mon, 14 Feb 2005 09:54:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? which kernel does linuspire 5 use ? Mon, 14 Feb 2005 10:13:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? "Switch to GNOME for heaven's sake!"

Gnome is primitive and butt ugly. You've got to be kidding. The 80s want their DE back.

Only pseudo-geek distros and companies that have invested too heavily in Gnome in the past use it as their default Desktop. And of course those who don't know any better. Mon, 14 Feb 2005 10:14:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? a desktop with a file manager like nautilus
is useless
kde rock :> Mon, 14 Feb 2005 10:42:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? Roger, I vaguely recall that there is a way to extract the .inf and .sys files out of the windows drivers installer in linux, i just don't know how. Keep searching, I think there's a way to do it. Mon, 14 Feb 2005 10:46:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? Mmmm Linspire... I used to kind of like them when they first showed up, but that enthousiasm got tempered as soon as I saw the setbacks of KDE (before I start a flamewar: my personal setbacks). Years ago, I had the time to dive into the plethora of options KDE presents you with; these days I just want a DE that works out-of-the-box without tweaking; that's why I prefer Gnome these days.

I don't agree with the people saying that Linspire should switch to Gnome, but I do understand them. For computer-illeterates, Linspire's market after all, Gnome is better suited. However, Linspire is a KDE-centric distro and it should stay that way. They'd have to redo their entire distro if they switch to Gnome.

Then again, who am I? Mon, 14 Feb 2005 11:07:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? They'd have to redo their entire distro if they switch to Gnome.

Heh, you started the flamewar...not me

I don't care what they do, one way or the other since I'm happy with Hoary, but what would preclude them from taking Ubuntu and building from that? Mandrake did it with RedHat and debian is already the meta-distro.

It probably doesn't make business sense right now and they do have a huge amount of non-stock KDE infrastructure written, but who knows.

Slowly, but surely, the unix world is moving to Gnome anyway. Mon, 14 Feb 2005 11:15:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? Does linspire still makes the root as default and only user? Mon, 14 Feb 2005 11:18:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? good, i hope Linspire is a thorn in both bill gates & steve ballmers side, i hope they both have nightmares of giant penguins marching on msft's redmond campus... Mon, 14 Feb 2005 11:36:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? the new Reiser FS? Mon, 14 Feb 2005 11:47:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? > For computer-illeterates, Linspire's market
> after all, Gnome is better suited.

That's nonsense. A well-preconfigured KDE (I don't talk about the default settings delivered by the KDE team) is superior in terms of being appealing to new users. This is the reason why most newbies prefer KDE and this is also the reason why it's the prefered desktop for all non-geek desktop distributions.

Of course everybody and every distribution has got its very own ideas of how a desktop might appeal to new users.

So every distribution ends up with adding their own settings and modifications. KDE provides a very modular and consistent framework and delivers technologies (like Kiosk e.g.) that make it extremely easy to significantly change or limit any desktop behaviour down to your needs.

KDE provides a very flexible desktop that allows modifications in a simple and very cost-effective way to meet the desktop vision of the respective distributor (or migration project). Mon, 14 Feb 2005 11:51:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? While I am not the type that would ever consider using Linspire, the distro has come a long way and and has some impressive features.

On the dvd subject, while I understand the issue and commend Linspire's stance, I think the problem with paying extra to play them is that people have already payed for the dvds and expect them to just work. The current setup would be like paying for Adobe Photoshop, and then having to pay a license on top of that to use anything that you actually create. Mon, 14 Feb 2005 11:52:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? Wireless support is MUCH improved in Linspire 5.0. Mon, 14 Feb 2005 12:24:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? Superb!

I'm sick of having to turn on my old imac just to share it's broadband connection (the base station sits downstairs)

As an OS X user wanting to learn Linux, I think I'm nearly there with Linspire. For starters it is the fiorst one to install with very few issues. I was well impressed at how most things work, and work well. Finally a Linux OS for dummies. Looking forward to 5 Mon, 14 Feb 2005 12:41:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? Thanks Lumbergh, I'll keep looking! Mon, 14 Feb 2005 12:45:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? Linspire CNR $50/yr
If you buy any PC with windows OS it is only $50 more than without OS. eg walmart $250 and $300 PCs or even laptops.
and then I have to worry about hardware compatibility and maybe buy another piece of printer for $100 just to suit Linspire?
I use debian and apt-get install .../unstable works very well.
So what is the magic linspire holds for $50/yr...........??? Mon, 14 Feb 2005 12:57:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? For the gazillionth time:
Windows does not include DVD playback either.
Some IP consortium wants big bucks for DVD decoding.

With Linspire, that's $4,95. Sounds like a bargain (ever tried to buy PowerDVD?)

Frankly it smells that DVD hardware always comes with Windows-only DVD playing software.

Not including DVD software in a distribution is inevitable for any Linux distribution that wants to remain close to its open roots. The ease with which Linspire makes DVD playback accessible, should be complimented, not complained about. The only easier option may be Apple's OS X. Mon, 14 Feb 2005 12:59:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? Slowly, but surely, the unix world is moving to Gnome anyway.

Evidence?

GNOME: RedHat, Fedora, Sun JDS, Ubuntu

KDE: Mandrake, Suse, Linspire, Xandros, Libranet

What other major distros are out there which default to one or the other? Mon, 14 Feb 2005 13:04:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? For the gazillionth time:
Windows does not include DVD playback either.

Windows XP was released in 2000. That's no longer acceptable. Does Windows Media Center Edition play DVDs? Let's see if Longhorn comes with DVD decoding.

Ayway, Linux needs to be better than Windows, not just ounce for ounce the same. That won't get people to switch. Mon, 14 Feb 2005 13:12:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? Note that iTunes also sees different capitalization as two different things. It would be have the same as your example.

At least, as far as I can remember w/o having a mac here to double check. Mon, 14 Feb 2005 13:19:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? but I lost my temper up there when this reviewer again complained about the lack of DVD software. Has he never heard the story about decss, the MPAA and the Norwegian hacker who was dragged into court?

Other than that: nice preview. I second the question about ReiserFS 4. Mon, 14 Feb 2005 13:20:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? From the aticle:
"my home system's Nvidia Quaddro 4 was not properly detected, and therefore, I was stuck at 1024x768 on my 17" flat panel."

When is the last time you installed Windows and it detected and setup your monitor with the latest and correct driver, your prefered resolution and color depth? uhh NEVER? Mon, 14 Feb 2005 13:26:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? When is the last time you installed Windows and it detected and setup your monitor with the latest and correct driver, your prefered resolution and color depth? uhh NEVER?

Let's see... that would be when I installed Windows XP about TWO YEARS AGO. Mon, 14 Feb 2005 13:32:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? There is a recent review of Mandrakelinux 10.1 Official on Newsforge: "For ease of use, Mandrakelinux can't beat. The Mandrakelinux Control Center is cleanly laid out and is probably the most intuitive on the market.", it's available here: http://os.newsforge.com/article.pl?sid=05/02/07/1856202

I've been using Mdklinux 10.1 for several months and it's incredibly powerful and stable, with thousands applications available from a simple click or a urpmi. Really worth a try.

For businesses, there is also the newly-released Mandrakelinux Corporate Desktop: http://store.mandrakesoft.com/product_info.php?products_id=193%...)which looks excellent as a professional desktop OS. It's also very affordable ($109 with one-year 24x7 support). Mon, 14 Feb 2005 13:34:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? did a quick test, not only does itunes see "Against Me!" and "Against me!" as the same artist, when it sorts it will put the bouncing souls in the b's, and the strokes in the s's. Mon, 14 Feb 2005 13:47:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? windows out of the box hardware support is unbelievably bad. not only that, it will barely play anything. i have never had the codec issues in linux that i have had in windows. some distros dont have dvd playback, others dont have mp3 playback, but that is two codec related installs, and you rarely have any hassles with them again. windows on the other hand is a nightmare with such things, im still not sure if its better to track everything down yourself or use one of the "codec packs" that are floating around, ive had big issues with both. same thing with drivers, i only need to download and install one driver, and that doesnt even need a reboot. on windows, its virtually every piece of hardware in my machine. Mon, 14 Feb 2005 13:52:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? Hi,

I would recommend having a look at both Mandrakelinux 10.1 Official + Mandrakelinux Corporate Desktop. Both are excellent choices as desktop OSes, very powerful & stable distros.

Quoting Newsforge: "For ease of use, Mandrakelinux can't beat. The Mandrakelinux Control Center is cleanly laid out and is probably the most intuitive on the market."

http://www.mandrakesoft.com Mon, 14 Feb 2005 13:55:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? This just makes me angry. Why put up with a mediocre OS with no apps and bad versions of iTunes, iPhoto etc. Just buy an Mac mini or better mac and you have it all AND you can run all apps you ever need on a unix based OS thats designed top to bottom with lots of thought. Why use Linux for that kind of apps in the first place anyway?? Mon, 14 Feb 2005 14:03:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? Muine does this too in GNOME. Mon, 14 Feb 2005 14:28:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? To sort things up a bit. Libranet's default is IceWM, not KDE.
KDE is available on one of the cd's just as xfce, E, Gnome and others...

-- Vecchio Mon, 14 Feb 2005 14:33:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? Is that why Libranet is still stuck in KDE 3.1 and Gnome 2.4? I abandoned the platform because it refused to progress. The developers are really lazy on that one. Mon, 14 Feb 2005 14:41:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? Well, a very expensive distribution with software you can install on every Linux box. NVU is just mozilla composer+.

The other apps are rip-offs.

Why not buy a Suse and get a full-featured Linux desktop? Mon, 14 Feb 2005 14:54:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? Lindows/Linspire is exactly what I wouldn't have wished to Linux for several reasons:

1) Linspire doesn't bring anything new to Linux, appart this pseudo-commercial hyper around it. Mandrakelinux, Fedora, SuSE, & others do really good desktop products with similar (or better) features and online services (including many ones which are free).

2) Linspire is a closed product. They think they can challenge Windows & Microsoft by adopting similar strategies, by trying to close open-source code, which is ridiculous and has no future.

3) Linspire tries to imitate the worse of Windows : open door to viruses (default root account), adoption of closed formats instead of open and public formats.

4) Linspire is a project started by a guy (Michael Robertson) which can lose much money for an OS dream with absolutely no open-source vision (and no technological vision at all).

As a result, Linspire is in my opinion a closed-world project that we must fight, because it's exactly what Linux should never become. Mon, 14 Feb 2005 14:57:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? Flame on kily01. Your comments are typically of someone who has no idea about WHY Linspire does business or who they target. Plus, I suggest you do your research before you decide to flame the message board with completely untrue accusations.

'Nuff said... Mon, 14 Feb 2005 15:04:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? I have to respond, just in case anyone reads the mod-downs:

Lindows/Linspire is exactly what I wouldn't have wished to Linux for several reasons:

1) Linspire doesn't bring anything new to Linux, appart this pseudo-commercial hyper around it. Mandrakelinux, Fedora, SuSE, & others do really good desktop products with similar (or better) features and online services (including many ones which are free).

Bullshit! Linspire brings A LOT to Linux, and not just in the form of new apps. Think lots of $$$$ to open projects.

2) Linspire is a closed product. They think they can challenge Windows & Microsoft by adopting similar strategies, by trying to close open-source code, which is ridiculous and has no future.

Bullshit! Nearly everything with Linspire is open. Admittedly, the source code is hard to find sometimes, but Linspire contributes almost all enhancements upstream.

3) Linspire tries to imitate the worse of Windows : open door to viruses (default root account), adoption of closed formats instead of open and public formats.

BS! Which closed formats are you talking about? There are none. Linspire prompts users to create user accounts. This issue has been beaten to death.

4) Linspire is a project started by a guy (Michael Robertson) which can lose much money for an OS dream with absolutely no open-source vision (and no technological vision at all).

I disagree, but who cares anyway? Even if that were true, he certainly doesn't HURT anything.

As a result, Linspire is in my opinion a closed-world project that we must fight, because it's exactly what Linux should never become.

You have no idea what you're talking about. At all. Mon, 14 Feb 2005 15:11:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? Wolf asked:"Does linspire still makes the root as default and only user?"

AFIAK this stopped with 4.5. It was a bad hack though, requiring a work-around to dial-out for user accounts. Connect to the Internet and watch your desk top icons mysteriously disappear. Mon, 14 Feb 2005 15:21:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? RE: Why we must fight Linspire
> By DarkMavis (IP: ---.mn.client2.attbi.com) - Posted on >2005-02-14 15:04:28
>Flame on kily01. Your comments are typically of someone who >has no idea about WHY Linspire does business or who they >target. Plus, I suggest you do your research before you
> decide to flame the message board with completely untrue
> accusations.

My activities in the free software world let me have a very clear idea of Linspire actually. And also about your cash burnate. You know I tested most of your products, so I know what I'm talking about.

Anyway, OSNews deleted my comment, that's not an issue since many people think like myself and because my comment was deleted, I will do my best to talk about the Linspire issue for Linux, everywhere I can. Mon, 14 Feb 2005 15:33:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? This attitude is exactly why I resisted switching from Windows to Linux in the first place. Too may people in the Linux community argue that their distro is better, then bitch and moan about the others. As I found out quickly, if you are a Linux newbie and not a seasoned bit head you get snubbed in many cases when looking for assistance. I have tried Suse, Mandrake, Redhat, Xandros and some others multiple times, and everytime there were certain things that just didn't work. Not detecting my flash drive, not detecting my wireless card, not giving me the proper video resolution. Things that were fixable, but I had to spend time to try and figure out why they did not work and then make the corrections. This is why I like Linspire. Everything worked first time, amazing. And as far as software goes, I love the fact that I can simply click one icon and the program is installed. If you want the typical windows user to migrate to Linux, then Linspire or something similar, is what it's going to take for them to make that transition. You can call it a dumbed down, locked down or whatever type of distro you want, but the bottom line is it WORKS. Mon, 14 Feb 2005 15:33:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? RE: Why we must fight Linspire
By Jc (IP: ---.clt.bellsouth.net) - Posted on 2005-02-14 15:33:30
>This attitude is exactly why I resisted switching from >Windows to Linux in the first place. Too may people in the >Linux community argue that their distro is better, then >bitch and moan about the others. As I found out quickly, if >you are a Linux newbie and not a seasoned bit head you get >snubbed in many cases when looking for assistance. I have >tried Suse, Mandrake, Redhat, Xandros and some others >multiple times, and everytime there were certain things >that just didn't work. Not detecting my flash drive, not >detecting my wireless card, not giving me the proper video >resolution. Things that were fixable, but I had to spend >time to try and figure out why they did not work and then >make the corrections. This is why I like Linspire. >Everything worked first time, amazing. And as far as >software goes, I love the fact that I can simply click one >icon and the program is installed. If you want the typical >windows user to migrate to Linux, then Linspire or >something similar, is what it's going to take for them to >make that transition. You can call it a dumbed down, locked >down or whatever type of distro you want, but the bottom >line is it WORKS.

Your perception is not accurate. Let me explain: Linux and Open Source provide software components that when put put together generally need to be patched to work correctly. That's the reason why Linux distributions are so popular: if you tried to assemble your own Linux system from core components, you would run into many troubles. Furthermore, Linux support of hardware, which is your point, may vary much depending on a kernel version or component versions. For instance, some hardware that used to work in previous SuSE or Mandrake may not work anymore in a more recent version because each time the Linux kernel improves, new bugs are introduced that need to be fixed.

As a result you will generally find two kinds of Linux distro reviews on the net: the ones from people who were extremely happy, because they were very lucky to have all their hardware work. And others from people who have been very disapointed because they ran into many issues due to their particular hardware configuration.

You are in this case: *one* version of Lindows worked for *your* hardware configuration, so you tend to think that they have the best hardware support. But this kind of comments are very common on the net, for all other Linux distributions as well.

For instance my own experience regarding hardware support with Lindows was very disapointing on one of my machines, and quite good with another one. Mon, 14 Feb 2005 15:43:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? Yes, Linspire Five-0 includes support for many wireless G cards.

Kevin Mon, 14 Feb 2005 16:06:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? Congrats to Linspire on the new upcoming Linspire 5.0!
Thanks for all the contributions that you make to FOSS, and thanks also for your marketing efforts that increase public awareness to software alternatives and FOSS. Good luck with the new release. Mon, 14 Feb 2005 16:14:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? Jc says: "As I found out quickly, if you are a Linux newbie and not a seasoned bit head you get snubbed in many cases when looking for assistance."

Most of the distro forums I've visited are _very_ helpful, Linspire included. Stick with the distro specific support Forums and you shouldn't have a problem. That said, some distros just aren't made for newbies. If you're on dial-up and don't know how to use 'pon', you shouldn't be using Knoppix STD. Mon, 14 Feb 2005 16:15:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? Interesting comments. Let me help to clarify a few points that I have read. First about the article:

* Lphoto should be able to write to DVDs as well as CDs. The version he was reviewing just did not have the name change yet as it was the same version that shipped with our previous product (4.5) which did not support DVD writing.

* DVD Playback: Linspire ships on many brand new machines that contain DVD players that will contain the DVD player but as has been stated previously, we don't ship it for free. Our goal is to keep the price as low as possible.

* Mozilla vs Firefox: To add a little more color to our thinking, we have to date fixed or added over 590 bugs and features into our version of Mozilla. We are moving to Firefox but we won't be ready until all of these 590 issues are fixed or implemented in Firefox. We are innovating many new technologies within Mozilla/Firefox (and are making them available back to the community). MailMinder, HotWords and on the fly Spell Checking are just a few examples of some of the ways we are innovating. Some of these are already (or have found) their way back to the main mozilla source code and others will follow. Also, our mozilla resides on the exact same rendering engine as Firefox. The biggest difference between our Mozilla and Firefox is the UI. Here is a very incomplete list of the changes we have made. (I grabbed these out of our bugzilla so the formatting may be rough):

General:
* Replicated mimetypes (helper apps) with desktop settings so you don't have to re-enter in all of your helper apps for each program you install.
* Default saving of documents, attachments and downloads to "My Documents"
* Smarter mimetype handling. If the mimetype is incorrect, will look at the extension (for example, .doc) to find correct program to launch.
* All preferences in Mozilla tweaked for optimum ease of use out of the box experience.
* ALl major plugins installed and enabled by default (flash, java, pdf, etc).
* Added the calendar as part of the suite.

Browser:
* Hot Words
* On the Fly Spell Checker
* Pre-populated list of allows popup sites'
* [F5] reloads web page (same as IE for compatibility)
* [Backspace] goes to previous page (same as IE for compatibility)
* Better search integration
* Customized right click menu with many easy to use tools such as language translations, search options, etc.

Email:
* MailMinder
* Hot Words
* On the fly spell checker
* Domain suffix checking (make sure you don't send mail to jack.donaldson@someplace.commm)
* Button to easily bcc yourself
* Send mail later.
* Ctrl+Shift+C to mark all messages as read in a mailbox.
* Pre-populated spam database to help instantly start filtering spam correctly.
* When spell checking a composed email, skip the signature and previous message (if a forward or reply to)
* When creating a new mail message, the first line defaults to "To:" and then the next line defaults to "CC:". Used to always stay on "To" until you changed it which was very annoying.
* When embedding an image to an email, default the "alternate text" field off (it defaults to on). If you don't turn it off, you are forced to type in an alternate text field for your image within the email.
* Attach multiple files at one time to an email message.
* Be able to open an attached file when composing an email. Many times you want to do this to ensure that it is the correct document.
* Enable hiding the "sending" dialog box when sending email.
* Added the ability to change the "from" part of an email when composing. Much like Outlook does.
* Added support for VCF cards
* Always have email search the personal address book first before collected.
* Reply All should not include sender's email address.
* Much better support for online/offline support

In addition to these features, we have fixed over 590 bugs in Mozilla. Everything from very small and annoying UI tweaks to large "browser crashes when you go to 'x' website" type of issues.

* Linspire is dedicated to the open source movement. Visit http://www.linspire.com/opensource for a more comprehensive list of all of the open source projects we contribute to.

* During the first run wizard after installing Linspire you are given the opportunity to set up additional users. It has long been a misconception that we don't allow multiple users. I can assure you that we DO allow for users to be setup and we spend a great deal of time making sure that the experience as a user is a good one.

* SOmeone asked which kernel version we are on. We are working off of the 2.6 kernel base.

* Many have asked why pay for CNR if you can apt-get. Let me just say that my kids don't want to learn how to use apt-get when they can easily find everything they need through CNR. I don't mind paying a service fee for this....just like I don't mind paying to have the oil changed in my car when I could do it myself. However if you don't want to use CNR, apt is readily available for you.

Tom Mon, 14 Feb 2005 16:17:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? CTO says: "However if you don't want to use CNR, apt is readily available for you."

Tom

Is apt 100% compatabile with Linspire? If CNR is broken by Debian libs how will the OS be able to receive updates? Mon, 14 Feb 2005 16:27:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? RE: Does linspire still makes the root as default and only user?

No, and hasn't for a long time.

RE: the new Reiser FS?

Linspire is a key sponsor for the new Reiser (http://linspire.com/opensource) and we will be including it in Linspire Five-0, but it will not be the default. We're not defaulting to the new Reiser yet, because the software and tools for OEM's to use it aren't there yet. Keep in mind, most people get Linspire NOT by installing an OS, but by buying a new computer and it's preinstalled. OEM's must be able to use ghosting systems or they will not use your OS. We're working with Reiser to solve this issue.

RE: Cost of DVD playback software.

Here again, OEM's will not pay to include this. Linspire can't pay $5 in royalties and then give that away to OEM's. If OEM's are going to sell computers preinstalled with Linux, Linux needs to play by a few of THEIR rules. They are using Linux because it's affordable. Adding another $5 in up-front costs won't work for them. This is why XP doesn't include DVD playback software either.

RE: So what is the magic linspire holds for $50/yr...........???

Here are some of the differences between CNR and apt:

* ONE-CLICK installing of new software.
* A novice can use CNR.
* The CNR Warehouse has User Reviews, Screenshots of applications, friendly menus, etc. (http://linspire.com/warehouse)
* ONE-CLICK uninstalling
* CNR adds (and removes when uninstalling) menu entries to your launch menu, desktop icons, etc.
* The CNR Warehouse is tested so user knows EVERY application will work.
* There are products in CNR Warehouse not in Debian's pool.
* Many of the applications in the CNR Warehouse are modified to provide a better user experience. For example, install GIMP with CNR and Apt, and you'll see a big difference in these applications.
* CNR notifies you of any updates to the applications you ahve installed on your computer and you can update them with ONE CLICK.

RE: GNOME vs KDE

Look here: http://googlefight.com/index.php?lang=en_GB&word1=KDE&word2...

=)

RE: Try Mandrake...

Mandrake is a great distro, but not as easy to use for newbies as Linspire. Linspire has hundreds of changes to KDE, the Internet Suite, the applications in the Warehouse, etc., that Mandrake doesn't make. Linspire has narrated tutorials, CNR, etc. For example, install Mandrake on a new computer, then visit this page and try clicking on each link and see what happens: http://linspire.com/filetypes If you do the same with Linspire, even 4.5, every link will work.

Again, Mandrake is great for those somewhat familiar with Linux, but Linspire is designed to be one-click easy, supporting all file types, etc.

The beauty of Linux, you have a choice! Choice is good.

RE: Use a Mac.

Does Mac have $200 computers and $498 laptops? ;-)

http://linspire.com/featured

Linux is more affordable and more open. iTunes, for example, uses DRM and only works with iPod. Check out http://mp3tunes.com for a more open way.

RE: Nvu is just Mozilla + Composer.

This person has clearly never looked at Nvu. It has over a year and hundreds of thousands of dollars of new development in it that is not in Composer. The lead developer for Nvu was the key maintainer for Composer. All work has stopped on composer and is now being done on Nvu. Nvu is to composer what Firefox and Thunderbird are to the older Mozilla suite.

RE: "I will do my best to talk about the Linspire issue for Linux, everywhere I can."

Great. As long as you keep talking about us, we'll remain relevant. We appreciate the attention you give us. THANK YOU! THANK YOU! THANK YOU!

=)

Kevin Carmony
President, Linspire, Inc. Mon, 14 Feb 2005 16:30:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? does gcc and basic dev tools (make, man pages, gdb) come included? all our CS assignments require *nix, but most of my friends using putty on windows to do it all. If I could find an easy-to-use (handholding) distro so that no hardware fiddling was required that they could program in they might convert.

As an aside.... anyone know if Linspire is into the black ink yet? I'd be terrible to convert someone just to have their distro turn belly up. Mon, 14 Feb 2005 16:46:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? I recently installed windows for the first time on a machine I built for a friend of mine. The last version of windows I used was NT 3.51 which was used to host an Xwindows session for a call center support application at the ISP I worked at in the mid-nineties. I have never done anything administratively with the microsoft operating system.

I have watched all the haranguing on various forums, as Linux has gained traction, about Window's ease of use, and the features lacking in the various Linux distributions. You can imagine my astonishment when finally I got this system installed and patched (*seven* reboots!!!), I inserted a DVD, and windows had no core system component capable of playing a DVD.

My Debian systems all have readily available apt sources to make DVD playback trivial to add. It took me many downloads (three of which turned out to be spyware) and much time at download.com to find something that would reliably play a DVD on this machine under Windows. Sure, a Windows oldbie would have this stuff all figured out, but there was no guidance in the system... from the perspective of a Newbie to Windows I have to say it really wasn't ready for primetime. If we're going to be comparing apples to apples here, I think (weirdly) that you have to compare Linspiredows with Windows rather than other Linux distributions.

I think Lindspiredows is likely trying to conform to the psychology of the migrating users in their target demographic, so they may be slowly rehabilitated. These poor people are obviously used to not having even the simplest things made available to them without jumping through financial and/or contortive hoops, and their training on windows will have innured them to all kinds of inconvenience and technical failure. (*SEVEN* reboots!!) Mon, 14 Feb 2005 16:51:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? CaptPinko asks: "As an aside.... anyone know if Linspire is into the black ink yet? I'd be terrible to convert someone just to have their distro turn belly up."

A few of the major distros took years to get into the black. Mon, 14 Feb 2005 16:53:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? "Sounds like a bargain (ever tried to buy PowerDVD?)"

No, why would I? Every PC with a DVD drive and every DVD drive (even OEM ones) from a PC store has had a copy in the box / plastic bag, since time immemorial. Mon, 14 Feb 2005 17:03:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? actually, I've never liked that kind of sorting for music. Bands put 'the' on the front of their name for a reason, usually, and (at least for me) one tends to think of their name with it included (do you think 'The Strokes' or 'Strokes'?) It makes sense for me to go looking for The Magnetic Fields or The Flaming Lips under T, not M and F. Mon, 14 Feb 2005 17:06:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? * [Backspace] goes to previous page (same as IE for compatibility)

Opinions may vary, but I personally HATE this feature in IE. I hope there's a way to turn it off. Mon, 14 Feb 2005 17:18:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? @AdamW

"Sounds like a bargain (ever tried to buy PowerDVD?)"

No, why would I? Every PC with a DVD drive and every DVD drive (even OEM ones) from a PC store has had a copy in the box / plastic bag, since time immemorial.

Yes. Absolutely, and you are paying a couple dollars more for the drive to pay for the license to the DVD Software.

It's in the box.

It's not necessarily "Free". Mon, 14 Feb 2005 17:22:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? Thanks for monitoring these comments and addressing them with information.

Not only that, but showing that the management of Linspire cares about what the users think, and care enough to be in a dialog with them.

I don't know of ANY other distribution that has people in it's excutive suites that do this.

I've been heavily considering Xandros for some time.

The 2.5 Public Edition is very nice.

I'd probably buy the Pro edition with the ability to run Windows apps. I know I'm beating a dead horse here, but the main thing that attracted me to Lindows in the beginning was that it was going to be an OS that ran Windows Apps that was NOT made by Microsoft.

That Lindows has since dropped that VERY important feature, is a huge disappointment to me.

The LEAST you guys can do, is to have the copy of WINE in CNR up-to-date, and have it run when installed.

I've reloaded my Linspire box several times, and reinstalled WINE, and NEVER got it to work. Not once.

It's disappointing to say the least.

Another App I'd like to see supported in Linspire is MythTV. Buying one of these inexpensive Walmart PC's with Linspire, adding a TV Capture device and getting MythTV from CNR would make a powerful configuration...

I'm looking forward to Linpire Five Oh, and I'm holding off on purchasing Xandros until then.

Your company is doing good work, and it's appreciated.

Oh, one more thing...

I'd *love* as an option, to have a GUI Look and feel for Linspire that mimics MacOS X, besides the Win-like look and feel currently available...

I like the MacOS X dock a LOT better than the Windows Start Menu. Mon, 14 Feb 2005 17:30:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? Linspire is definitely on their way to producing a Linux distro "for the masses". I just can't understand why there isn't one single distro willing to invest the time in squashing the infamous USB malloc() bug. There *are* Linux users who use webcams, too. :-) Mon, 14 Feb 2005 17:39:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? I will just wait for May 2006 for Microsoft Windows Longhorn Desktop. Thanks. Mon, 14 Feb 2005 17:50:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? I'd *love* as an option, to have a GUI Look and feel for Linspire that mimics MacOS X, besides the Win-like look and feel currently available...

I like the MacOS X dock a LOT better than the Windows Start Menu.
-----------------------------------------------------------

You can do this pretty easily, just install kooldock for KDE
http://ktown.kde.cl/kooldock/shots.php

I had it installed on suse, but it should be able to be installed on anything.

-One Mon, 14 Feb 2005 17:51:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? Onetrack - LinSpire is trying to get as many customers as possible. The obvious and correct audience are people currently using Windows that want to move to some other OS that is very easy to use including install and uninstalling apps, plus has very few if any problems with viruses and spyware. That's why it looks a lot like Windows. So those people feel comfortable.

yawn By Anonymous"I will just wait for May 2006 for Microsoft Windows Longhorn Desktop. Thanks." Why wait for Shorthorn. Mac OS X already has or will have for Tiger everything that was promised for Shorthorn. Mon, 14 Feb 2005 17:59:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? Hi guys,

Five-O looks great, I was wondering what kind of strings you could pull so I could land a copy of the beta? I am a lifetime
member (supporting sweden) have bought a membership, and have introduced linspire to numerous people and its running on at least 1/2 dozen of my friends pcs who now refuse to go back to windows.

Even my 74 year old grandmother uses it on a daily basis (bless her) to write messages, read email and chat with her friends.

So can I have a beta copy ? Really eagre to try it out.

-One Mon, 14 Feb 2005 17:59:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? Hey I was replying to Al Hartmans request for an OSX like dock bar, (Comment 75) Hence I was just giving him the link to cool dock (which i have used and just put the KDE dock along the left side).

For me, a good OS is all about making it look non-standard. My XP box for example, you wouldn't know its XP as it looks vastly different, with using astonshell, many other theming options - if I had to reinstall my os i'd probably cry as its taken months to get it the way -i- want it.

On the other side, i agree with you, the new 5-0 theme looks great, eye candy etc. I know of -many- people who have XP boxes with the green start button and the rolling hills wallpaper (or screensaver as they call it).

So yeah.. cooldock works great for those wanting a more OSX bar with KDE. I've tried it, and on Suse 9.1 it worked flawlessly.

Cheers,
One Mon, 14 Feb 2005 18:04:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? I love the fact that you guys took time to address comments and questions in the comments section of this web site. It shows that you really care about customers and don't just treat them as numbers.

I'm not currently using Linspire, having Mandrake installed (as you said, it's a good distro for those familiar with Linux, and that's the first distro I ever used - sentimental value, I guess), however I am very interested in installing Linspire on the laptop I plan to purchase in a couple of weeks. I was curious if anyone has had any luck with installing Linspire on an Averatec 3250HX laptop? I'm especially curious about the Wireless driver and the DVD burner working out-of-the-box.

BTW, if you don't know about Averatec laptops, these offer an incredible bang for the buck. Check it out:
http://www.averatec.com/notebooks/3200series.htm

Thanks again guys for your efforts. You have a great company selling an excellent product! Mon, 14 Feb 2005 18:35:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? The reviewer says that using Mozilla reminds him of why he stopped using it, but fails to inform us.

I *prefer* Mozilla to Firefox because Mozilla gives me more control an there is nothing in Firefox that is better than Mozilla. Yes, I know about about:config. Mon, 14 Feb 2005 19:04:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? So we're modding down anti-Gnome comments but not anti-KDE comments? Guess that would have to be Eugenia's handiwork. Mon, 14 Feb 2005 19:28:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? I can't speak specifically about your Averatec model but we work with quite a few Averatec laptops. 5.0 will address DVD and 802.11g issues. Mon, 14 Feb 2005 19:54:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? some people dont want a "...and the kitchen sink" browser. firefox is (supposed to) be that, mozilla never had any such claims.

i would argue that the ui in firefox is significantly better, but to each his own. Mon, 14 Feb 2005 20:02:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? I've tried Linspire years ago. Although it's been a while, I remember seeing it as a really polished, easy to use distro. I'd like to see where they have come in this span of time. What impresses me more is their community involvement (sponsors for a number of open-source pillars as well as their quick and thoughtful responses).

Kudos to Linspire, and although I've chosen a different distro, I'm still happy to see them succeed.

- Brian Mon, 14 Feb 2005 20:02:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? If you want a Beta of Linspire Five-Oh, it's easy to get...

Go to www.linspire.com, and join the 'Insiders' Program.

It costs $99, and if you're a Lifetime Member, you'll be an Insider forever...

THAT's how you get a beta of Linspire Five-Oh, and it's ALWAYS been that way.

Begging on OSNews won't get that for you. Mon, 14 Feb 2005 20:35:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? well then, please do send me the name and address of a company where I can buy an OEM DVD drive *without* the player software, I'd be glad to save a couple of bucks next time I need one. Mon, 14 Feb 2005 20:51:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? Excellent! When Five-0 comes out I'll try booting the Averatec model I'm interested in with the liveCD at the local Future Shop (as long as the salespeople don't freak out - liveCDs are still quite a novel concept) and see how it works. Thanks! Mon, 14 Feb 2005 20:54:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? Al - Good point on the Insiders Program. I just wanted to add/clarify that you will remain an Insider for the $99 as long as you remain a CNR member. So, as long as you're paying your $50 a year (which is a good deal by-the-way), you will remain an Insider. Thanks again though for pointing out the Insiders program. Mon, 14 Feb 2005 21:06:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? How long does it take to boot Five-0? 4.5 on my P4 takes almost 3 minutes. Mon, 14 Feb 2005 21:40:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? well then, please do send me the name and address of a company where I can buy an OEM DVD drive *without* the player software, I'd be glad to save a couple of bucks next time I need one.

Most of the OEM DVD drive from Canada Computer (http://www.canadacomputers.com/cdrom.html#rom) do not have player software. Feel free to drop buy anytime and boost the Canadian economy. Mon, 14 Feb 2005 22:41:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? ...about your reply on ReiserFS.

To others about DVD playback. I work in a computer store here in Australia.

Customers who purchase either a Pioneer 109, or a base model ATI graphics card get the ability to playback DVD if Windows is requested to be installed for them.

So for all these majority of customers, they wouldn't have a clue that WinXP doesn't have a DVD decoder by default.

I believe that the CNR service model is great concept for opensource. Simply because this enables Linspire to sponsor so many opensource projects.

CNR > Mandrake Club. Mon, 14 Feb 2005 23:20:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? You are being ripped off.

All the OEM Pioneer drives in Australia have the Nero Suite. I think LiteOn are the only ones that don't have software.

My advice buy value for money, not cheap. Mon, 14 Feb 2005 23:22:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? That is a good question. I remember trying Lindows 4.0 and it was just as slow.

What are they loading on startup? I think they need to fix this. I don't leave my computers on all day, and I am not a Greeny either. Mon, 14 Feb 2005 23:25:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? Someone could always grab bootchart and run it on a Linspire box. Great tool, and the latest 0.8 is a heck of a lot easier to deal with and less hackish than the 0.1 everyone played with when it was first written. I just ran it over my box yesterday, and discovered a full 10 seconds of my 60 second boot time is occupied by fsck.reiserfs, heh. Wonder if it'll be any faster with reiser4... Mon, 14 Feb 2005 23:27:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? "I believe that the CNR service model is great concept for opensource. Simply because this enables Linspire to sponsor so many opensource projects.

CNR > Mandrake Club."

This doesn't really follow. If you're suggesting that CNR makes Linspire more money than the Club makes MDKsoft, you can't reach that conclusion, as neither company makes those figures public. Neither company makes public its monetary level of sponsorship for open source projects, either, but even if we assume for the sake of argument that Linspire contributes more, this doesn't mean it has more to contribute; there are other factors to consider. For instance, although Linspire is not a publicly traded company, it is generally believed to be operating at a loss. Mandrakesoft currently operates at a modest profit.

For an incomplete list of free software projects which MDKsoft staff contribute to, see here:

http://qa.mandrakesoft.com/twiki/bin/view/Main/FreeSoftwareProjects Mon, 14 Feb 2005 23:36:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? As I read it, he "merely" suggested that CNR is better than Mandrake Club, hence the ">" sign :-) Tue, 15 Feb 2005 00:13:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? Well, I am happy to hear about your progress... I have been interested on slling your product... And I think that I have a chance at convinsing my employer about it... I have just to investigate on a few issues that consern me with the potential buyers reception tours linux in general coserning their possible questions and problems, just to avoid inconviniences to them and make their experience an enyoable one...

What I want to do now before I present the product (OS and CNR) is to assure that we can handel the custumer with their posible problems... unavoideble... but I want to make it as easy as posible to our customers whe they consider Linspire, Linux in general since I plan on ofering other distros to the adventurous (if I see said customer capeble of it, maybe too few but I will keep options open for variaty's sake...)

-what woud be the best hardware to use... and I mean most compatible up to the graphic cards... And yes I know abowt LFriendly... but I would like to know the highest range one... well ok so you have the "welcome kit" wich explains about serteficatin the hardware, wish I could read more about it before jumping in... Could I buy it (the "Welcome Kit" that sells to bronze members....) before so that I can analize on how do I present it to my employer?

... Maybe I have to researsh a bit more... or I am been over coutious... I just don't want to let them (my employer and potential custumer) a bad impresion of linux.... I want to make sertain I am doing things corectly and not just pushing PCs and software down custumers throaths...

-Big Moron... was here! Tue, 15 Feb 2005 00:29:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? I cant believe the whining I hear about this! Linspire is exactly what the Linux Desktop needs. They are doing, as a company, what the linux desktop people (LDC/LSB/OSDL) et cetera can't do, but want to happen. Let me explain:

You can't force standards in the linux community; they become standards by fiat and choice. It evolves. What works for most people sticks and the rest goes by the way side or finds its little user base, like a cult film. It's evolution, like Linus says, and what makes the Linux movement so exciting. What happens is two or three gain the momentum and become the majority and everything else is for those on the fringes. (E.G. KDE or Gnome? Xfree86/x.org, Red Hat or SUSE? Nautilus or Konqueor?)

While this can immobilize great organizations like the aforementioned and megacorps such as IBM and HP alike, the users are empowered to choose what they want, their choices drive further development, which creates more users et cetera. The problem then becomes a chicken/egg thing. Where does the cycle begin? To create a standard is great, but with so many cats to herd (per the linus metaphor) you can't please all the people all the time or get every single stinking cat in your breeding herd. It begins when someone gets a set of balls and says, "We're doing this!

Linspire has done this in a number of ways. With the DVD player, the point of this thread, they taken a different path from SUSE.

SuSE says you can't play DVDs outta the box, but get library X and then you can. We can't help you any more than that or well get our tiny assess sued and munched off when the MICROSOFT/RIAA/American Bar Association behemoth awakens...and that works for the market segment they want...Those are the cats they are choosing to herd...

Linspire, smartly going after a specific market segment, uses that market segment's own characteristics to help the customers out.
Pay a little, get a shitload of functionality...the American way...and gets the cats in their herd that they want.

All you little bitches whining about DVD playback should shut the HELL UP! You have 4 options:

1. Download DeCSS and build it into the broken version of your own Mplyer, xine, whatever that came with your distro, and be happy

2. Download all the libraries and executables, compile it all and be happy

3. Pay the trivial bullshit token they charge to get the software and be happy.

4. Whine, bitch. and complain that you aren't getting something for free that took other people time and work to create or obtain. Windows doesn't include a DVD player. So what makes you so special because you use linux? Shut the hell up! Ive been using Linux as my ONLY OS for 4 years and suffered through the DVD bullshit the whole time. GROW UP! Lump it or stay with windows. The people Linspire are going after those want someting other than Windows that works and are willing to pay a small bit of cash to do it. A small bit of cash that is still less than if you want to do the same thing on windows, by the way. Linspire are offering a low cost solution for their primary market that makes it easy for everyone. LAY OFF of them and grow up.

I dont use Linspire; I broke my teeth on redhat 6.0 and still use SuSe, bloat and all. I deal with the bloat and warts because I support SuSE with my money and value what I have learned and continue to learn so much (I could fill a book with the knowledge I have been forced to learn in between reinstall after reinstall). Most people dont want to suffer like i have, and I can't blame them. They want to pay a little and get a lot. That is fine...that is free enterprise...so shut up and deal with it already!

I commend Linspire, though they don't really fit my way of doing things. I am a member of one of those cults who still gets a kick outta the CLI for doing stuff quick, loves memorizing new commands and pees on himself with joy whenever he gets to use one.. But I still loves the GUI for videos and multimedia, and just can't sit by and watch those who want something for nothing, wehn companies are doing their best to solve problems rather than whine about them Tue, 15 Feb 2005 02:34:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? If you want a Beta of Linspire Five-Oh, it's easy to get...
Go to www.linspire.com, and join the 'Insiders' Program.
It costs $99, and if you're a Lifetime Member, you'll be an Insider forever...
THAT's how you get a beta of Linspire Five-Oh, and it's ALWAYS been that way.
Begging on OSNews won't get that for you.
----------------------------------------------------------------
yeah I know about the insiders.

I'm a lifer with them and supported linspire with both a lifetime membership as well as my one year membership.

I've spent some money with linspire already, no i'm not a member of the insiders and the insiders are doing a great job of controlling themselves and not putting up an iso on some torrent site.

i was mearly ' suggesting ' that perhaps the lifetime supporters who came to linspires aid when they were fighting off M$ in the beneleux might be able to download a beta copy since they were given out -freely- at the linux show.

If they'd give access to the lifetimers and allow me to download the beta they were giving out i'd happily install it and give them a report from my computers i have here.

Sheesh Al, and after I give you the link to Kooldock even.

Begging indeed.
One. Tue, 15 Feb 2005 03:35:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? I will rephrase myself.

IMHO CNR > Mandrake Club
The reason is because if I decide to give my money to Linspire. I get a basic KDE environment. That in FiveO looks awesome thanks to Everaldo work.

But I get to install only the programs I wish to. BTW again IMHO my experience with the Mandrake distribution has not been great in the past, so I would favour paying money to CNR. Tue, 15 Feb 2005 03:42:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? Bravo!

I work with RedHat all day long and enjoy the simplicity of Linspire when I come home at night so I can relax and not have to work any overtime. I even use CNR and payed the DVD $4.95. It's my money, my choice. Tue, 15 Feb 2005 06:42:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? Their Launch button looks similar to the Linare explore button...

http://www.linare.com/screen_shots/desktop.html Tue, 15 Feb 2005 07:23:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? It's sort of fustrating to think that Linspire have spent a large sum of money on a new look, and although it is improved over previous versions, it still looks like a gaudy knock-off version of Windows. Less is more sometimes people, come on. Cut down the system tray and the number of icons on the desktop as well as the use of the "bevel and emboss" effect and hire some _real_ designers.

Other than the tacky visuals, this looks like a decent release. Kudos. Tue, 15 Feb 2005 08:15:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? Does it recognize and set up second and third hard drives without having to manually hack it?

Is SMP support finally compiled in? - And before someone says it doesn't need it may I remind you that P4-HT's use SMP in order to run 2 instances of folding@home clients. There's probably other times it need SMP as well.

Has wireless and laptop power management been expanded?

I'm sorry but the review that was given was the typical "well its got this kernel and this gui" type of review that tells us jack. Tue, 15 Feb 2005 13:04:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? i dont get it either, but people seem to like gaudy. Tue, 15 Feb 2005 14:06:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? Just wondering if Five-O will recognize and use a dual processor setup. (not sure if that is dependent on the kernel or something else..) Tue, 15 Feb 2005 14:50:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? It is inevitable when there is a commercial Linux Distro like Xandros or Linspire there those in the Linux community who cannot help themselves, they just have to let you u know that their distro is better and since it is geared towards some migrating from Windows, it isn't really Linux.

I have a question for the " My Linux is better than your Linux people" and it is, Do you want to really put a dent in microsoft's dominance as an OS? Then why not applaud companies like Xandros and Linspire for bringing Linux to the masses with something that eases the tranistion from Windows to Linux and at the same time you can tweak, compile , and configure to your hearts content and take comfort in the potential increase in Linux users. You dont ever have to use it, just support it exsistence : Linux user Unite! What difference whether someone is using Xandros, Linspire, Mandrake, or Gentoo the important thing is that they are not using Windows. You know this ridiculous in fighting distro flaming in the Linux Community is exactly what Microsoft wants and Im suprised they havent talked about this in some of their anti Linux propaganda, u have heard of the divide and conquer stragety right? All the condescension and scorn cast upon easy to use Linux distros and their users could discourage potential Linux users when they see all the nasty distro flame wars. Just stop it ok, use whatever distro you wanna use and don't insult the intelligence of anyone because they are using what you like to use. Just be happy they are not using Windows.

I Tue, 15 Feb 2005 14:58:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? "I think the problem with paying extra to play them is that people have already payed for the dvds and expect them to just work."

This is nonsense. You did buy a physical DVD player, right? Where the heck do you think a portion of that money goes? To pay for the licensing of the codecs. You don't buy a DVD and stick in your VCR or your CD player. Folks, you're going to have to get used to paying for some premium features. DVD playback is not something you can't live without. If you wanted, I suppose you could blame the manufacturers of computer DVD readers and burners. Actually, this would make more sense. Why can't they flit the bill for the codecs? Why is everybody blaming the OS? HMMM. Tue, 15 Feb 2005 15:59:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? I have been using Linspire/Lindows since they gave away the 4.5 Developer Edition to OSNews readers for free a year or so ago. I run 9 Debian servers every day. I have used, at various times, Slackware, Mandrake, Debian, Knoppix and Linspire on my desktop systems.

There is a price to be paid in flexibility by staying within the CNR model. It's the same price you pay by not adding sarge/sid to apt.sources in stock Debian. You lose some flexibility, lose access to bleeding edge updates, and gain tremendous stability.

Linspire makes all of the standard development tools, kernel sources, etc available in CNR. It is trivial to install them (one-click) and go grab anything I really want that is not in CNR from source.

However, for day to day operations on my primary laptop (Dell 5150), I like not having to go figure out what the latest glibc update broke. What perl module some app is missing because the developer did a poor job of building his deb. What conflict this particular version of some app has with the version of the KDE libs I have installed.

It is refreshing sometimes, to have a system just work. All the time, every time, no exceptions. That's why I use Linspire despite not being a newbie or recent Windows convert. That's why I paid $99 for a lifetime CNR subscription.

The quality of people at the company, the quality of people in their user forums, and the fact that I still enjoy tinkering is why I paid another $99 to become an Insider for life.

As far as I'm concerned, that $200 is some of the best computing dollars I have ever spent. Tue, 15 Feb 2005 17:13:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? "I have a question for the " My Linux is better than your Linux people" and it is, Do you want to really put a dent in microsoft's dominance as an OS? Then why not applaud companies like Xandros and Linspire for bringing Linux to the masses with something that eases the tranistion from Windows to Linux and at the same time you can tweak, compile , and configure to your hearts content and take comfort in the potential increase in Linux users."

Maybe some of us think that the masses will be turned away from Linux by these distros. Loading a crippled Wally World laptop with Linux is my prime example. Also, you can't "tweak, compile, and configure to you hearts content" with Linspire, as it will surely break. For many Linspire will turn out to be an expensive stepping stone. Others will go back to Windows. The uneducated public needs to be aware of the limitations and costs of certain distros. Linspire is a great alternative to Windows for those who are not technically savy. Nothing wrong with that. In my experience, Linspire 4.5 installs default with a firewall which is more than I can say for a few newbie targeted distros. Although I'm not sure why it has 9 or 10 services running behind the firewall. Tue, 15 Feb 2005 17:25:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? You are being ripped off.

All the OEM Pioneer drives in Australia have the Nero Suite. I think LiteOn are the only ones that don't have software.

My advice buy value for money, not cheap.

First of all DVD players don't typically come with DVD burning software ;-)

Second of all, AdamW asked where he could purchase a DVD (reader or writer, he didn't say) that didn't come with software so that he could save a few dollars and I provided him a link.

Since I only use hardware that is Linux compatible, I could care less if software or drivers are provided. To me, compatibility = value, not extra non-compatible software. Tue, 15 Feb 2005 17:53:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? oh, well in that case, you're barking entirely up the wrong tree. CNR is a software distribution tool. MandrakeClub isn't. MDK has a perfectly serviceable software distribution tool called rpmdrake, which you get for free, and which uses freely available repositories. MandrakeClub is more of a community. Tue, 15 Feb 2005 18:02:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? I whont bother replying to Pres EL SLOGO Kevin and the CTO of Linspire your lost causes ... let me just say that your company as not made money in the last 5 years mainly because of you two ... and I can proove almsot all that you said as Lie in 5 seconds. Did it in the past , whont bother with it this time again.

For the Linspire people :

I see a *double* real problem with your "I-Life Linspire" strategy.

1) you have no player like I-Pod , I dont know personnaly , I would partner with some and offer them with rebate from your linspire site included with a copy of Linspire-Live 4.5 ( at no cost ) the CD and L-Life ( only ) make money on C&R.

I dont think you are brave enough to risk including your 5.0 version like Bill Gates did with offering DOS to hard drive makers ...

http://www.iriver.com/ would be a good start

http://www.mobilemag.com/ as many you can pick from.

Pocket Media Assistant PMA400 Productivity

http://www.archos.com/products/overview/pma_400_pro.html?sid=j2232j...

Dell DJ for obvious reason , even if they dont whant to partner with you , make it compatible.

http://www1.us.dell.com/content/products/category.aspx/dj?c=us&...

this is a pda photo/phone/mp3 ...

http://www.nokia.com/nokia/0,8764,33325,00.html?appId=6680

2) The biggest money maker is going to be the LSONG service or mp3tunes ( if its anything like apple )your problem is your thinking small only for linspire , you should have someone pushing it on other Debian base and other distribution so that it generate income for you ( share a smal part of the profit with them ) and you should make a windows version ( like gimp , firefox and OO.org already have ).

After first month after release of 5.0 I would offer a free version for download without C&R or with C&R timed to 15 days with limited number of software availaible. this way peole get to test it and see if they like it. Ofer 5 - 10 free mp3tunes for free ...

The look and feel is ugly , get some money and go see the stardock people and have them do some skinning for you :

http://www.stardock.com/
http://www.wincustomize.com/index.aspx?u=0

If you can try and have them do a version of there software for you ...

http://www.wincustomize.com/IndexSkins.aspx

You whant more people working on irma :

About IRMA you might whant to give Lifer and Insider to get people to contribute on the long term , contrary to popular belief not everyone is rich and not everyone can pay the price to help you and contribute. You should be more open about letting people who whant to help in ( Africa , China , India come to mind ).

Oh yes the comment about Aplle dont have a 200$ dollar and 400$ laptop ... Personnaly I would not push the 200$ dollar computer against apple comp , or even promote them too much , but the 498$ laptop I would pit against the new Mac mini.

SLOGO SONG : For the Laptop :

Mac Mini as nothing on me
Mac Mini as nothing on me
Because I come with my own TV

Mac Mini will not come to my house
Mac Mini will not come to my house
because they have no mouse

Mac Mini will not play rebound
Mac Mini will not play rebound
Because they have no real plug for sound

Mac Mini will not come on the road with me
Mac Mini will not come on the road with me
Because Mac Mini as no battery

Mac Mini will not inspire
Mac Mini will not inspire
Because Mac Mini as no Linspire

Mac mini will not come onboard
Mac Mini will not come onboard
Because Mac mini as no keyboard

About your Lraiser plan I would send a couple of comp and box of Linspire 5.0 oversea to the US troops with a special unlimited access to C&R ( I am sure that sending them a gift is going to win you some of them for life ... ) Have some reporter from San diego TV channel(ss if possible) follow you with this ( Packaging of box and Filming at arrival ).

Again with LRaiser I would send El Slogo Presidente or someone else to all the fireman casern around San Diego with a box full of Linspire 5.0 with C&R unlocked for one year to all the fireman and tell them that the fire is coming to help them this time ;-) Have some reporter from San Diego TV channel(ss if possible) follow you with this.

Do the same with the Police and tell them your trying to raise some hell without breaking things ;-) Have some reporter from San Diego TV channel(ss if possible) follow you with this .

You dont have some BaseBall Team ( padres )or BasketBall team ( ? ) or football team ( San Diego Chargers )near San diego where you could distribute around 50k live cd to the people in attending ... you could use the snow-ball effect , say you pay for the first 50k CD for san diego

http://www.cdrom2go.com/cd_duplication/fullservedupe.asp

and you use the income part of the C&R income to do this for other team in other city in other stadium and other sports ...

soon you have a 300 000 user base paying 89.00$
for the value package ( 26 700 000$ ) and 500 000
who are C&R members ...

But hey I am the one whose favorite distribution is almost bankrupt and not making enough money , ho no that would be you ;-)

600 people to a desktop summit I guess they where all at the gun show ;-)

BTW I am available for a fee , you would not like me I help people make money ... Tue, 15 Feb 2005 18:04:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? no, it's not nonsense. The problem is not paying for the licensing of the codec. The problem is paying for the licensing of DeCSS.

Now, think about this. DeCSS gives precisely nothing to the consumer. So far as you the watcher are concerned, a DeCSS protected DVD has exactly the same features, quality and everything else as a non-protected one. All DeCSS does for _us_ (or rather, *to* us) is restrict our fair use under copyright law. The *only* people who benefit from DeCSS are the studios. Yet, bizarrely, we the consumers are supposed to *pay* for it. Why does this make sense to you? Tue, 15 Feb 2005 18:05:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? Thanks for making that distinction...

When one is a lifetime member as I am, and the user I was responding to is...

When you purchase an Insider's Subscription, basically... One has a permanent membership as an Insider AND as a Lifetime Member.

At least, as long as Linspire stays in business...

Which, I hope is a long time to come. Tue, 15 Feb 2005 19:18:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? ROFLMAO!!

YES, it IS begging... (Laugh a little, ok?)

Personally, I don't have a problem sending some money Linspire's way.

I haven't yet registered as an Insider, I probably should soon...

I also helped them out when they asked for people to pony up money to fight Microsoft in Europe. I also paid for a year of CNR prior to that. Just like you.

I like sending money to support people to make stuff for me to enjoy...

I also like generous people who make great stuff, and give it away freely.

I don't like myself when I expect people to give me stuff they worked hard to make for free...

I'll get Five-Oh when it's released. If I want it sooner, I can join as an Insider and get it in the next 20 minutes.

I'll probably join as an Insider, just to give them more money. And, I'll probably buy that OpenOffice/FireFox Suite to reward them for all the good work they do too..

Even though, I've already downloaded both packages...

I've watched too many neat things die, because the programmer couldn't afford to keep doing it for free (Amilthon for one...).

I'm willing to donate for ReactOS. I'm waiting for them to be setup for that. Tue, 15 Feb 2005 19:28:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? //You can imagine my astonishment when finally I got this system installed and patched (*seven* reboots!!!), I inserted a DVD, and windows had no core system component capable of playing a DVD.//

Personally, I'm astonished that anyone would *sit in front of a computer* to watch a DVD!!! I'd much rather pop the DVD into my home theatre, sit on the couch, and enjoy from 10-20 feet away.

This is a NON-ISSUE to 98.9% of the market. Tue, 15 Feb 2005 21:03:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? lots of students don't have home theatres. Lots of kids have PCs in their bedroom but no DVD player. And increasing numbers of people use their PCs as home theatres - my PC plays all my DVDs through my nice 27" TV and 5.1 speaker setup. Tue, 15 Feb 2005 23:21:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? concerning my statements:
Then why not applaud companies like Xandros and Linspire for bringing Linux to the masses with something that eases the tranistion from Windows to Linux and at the same time you can tweak, compile , and configure to your hearts content and take comfort in the potential increase in Linux users."

I actually meant to say that the users of more demanding forms of Linux can tweak, configure, and compile to their hearts content and still be happy that their is something like Linspire or Xandros to get the newbies get their feet, solely on the fact that are breaking free of Microsofts chains. I tried Linpspire and while its not my distro of choice it certainly has it merits, esp for the newbie migrating fresh from Windows.

You see there is a Linux for everyone from the techinal savvy user to the beginner and thats what we should be celebrating, not smugly sneering at the User friendly distros and their users. Wed, 16 Feb 2005 10:50:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? "I actually meant to say that the users of more demanding forms of Linux can tweak.."

Understood. It made a good entrance for my "can't tweak.." statement though. (Still waiting for CTO Tom's ansewr to my 5.0 apt-get compatibility question).

I too have used Linspire (several versions) on several computers and it always needed work, usually for hardware. Once one has to start monkeying around under the hood, they might as well have started with a less proprietary free distro. Pushing pre-installed software on lame hardware isn't the answer.

I don't agree with the "my distro is better" statements. Pointing out the limitations and sometimes not so obvious costs of distros is not a bad thing though. Wed, 16 Feb 2005 12:52:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? Thanks for a great OS!
I am a newbie on Linux but this OS is a very simple one (actually far more simple then windows) but flexible.
The best of all is CNR! Wed, 16 Feb 2005 20:00:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? If you are ready to be ripped off every month with the CNR subscription to a warehouse full of OLD programs and have mp3.com old and crappy music shoved down your email chute then go ahead and fall for this! Try UBUNTU. Youll pay nothing, have a way to ungrade your system constantly with NEW programs and be part of a real good community, not this paid off $20 million by MS Linspire concoction! Fri, 18 Feb 2005 21:59:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? There are plenty of good 'free' distros out there. Mepis replaced XP on my boxes months ago. Anyone interested in checking out the many Linux distros available should visit distrowatch.com. Sat, 19 Feb 2005 14:53:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? Does anyone know when this will be released. I've tried 4.5 but had not much luck because of my hardware. But I'm hoping to try it out because I've been hearing alot of good things about it. Sat, 19 Feb 2005 20:37:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments http://osnews.com/thread? http://osnews.com/thread? It should be released in maybe 2 months the insiders is testing it for full horses at this time...It will be awsome! Mon, 21 Feb 2005 20:49:00 GMT donotreply@osnews.com (Anonymous) Comments