Linked by Thom Holwerda on Thu 2nd Mar 2006 12:58 UTC, submitted by Rahul
X11, Window Managers The cooperation between the XGL and AIGLX projects to bring better interfaces for the Linux desktop continues as David Reveman (Novell) of XGL has agreed to adopt many changes from the AIGLX project sent in by Kristian Hogsberg (Red Hat).
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RE: Too little too late
by abraxas on Thu 2nd Mar 2006 21:03 UTC in reply to "Too little too late"
abraxas
Member since:
2005-07-07

The technology in Vista blows away some hacked up XGL and whatever crap that RedHat puts out.

Oh really? You mean Windows Vista right? The OS that hasn't shipped yet.

Linux is great at putting out technology demos with no thought to the programming model to actually give app developers something to use.

App developers have nothing to do with this. The only changes necessary are drivers, X, and a compositing window manager.

Linux just continues to fall further behind windows and osx

That's funny because I haven't found the options for the hardware accelerated/3D desktop in XP yet. You mind showing me where those options exist?

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[2]: Too little too late
by Tom K on Thu 2nd Mar 2006 21:08 in reply to "RE: Too little too late"
Tom K Member since:
2005-07-06

GDI+ uses hardware acceleration for many things, so yeah, I'd say that Linux is behind it currently as well.

Vista is something like 8-9 months away from shipping, and is already feature-complete. The betas that have been released so far are quite usable, just buggy.

Whether you like it or not, Linux *is* currently behind, and will be behind for the next while.

Reply Parent Score: 0

RE[3]: Too little too late
by iserlohn on Thu 2nd Mar 2006 21:25 in reply to "RE[2]: Too little too late"
iserlohn Member since:
2006-02-24

If you are using Ubuntu dapper, Xgl is in the universe repo, and is available now. Having been using it for the past few weeks, I can vouch that the technology is complete and *stable*.

I have used Vista builds in the past few months and honestly, the Aero glass interface not only has inferior effects than what is provided in compiz, but the destop performance was also inferior as well (Apart from window resizing performance, which aero handles better).

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[3]: Too little too late
by siride on Thu 2nd Mar 2006 22:07 in reply to "RE[2]: Too little too late"
siride Member since:
2006-01-02

So many Linux folks continue to ignore this reality. X11 is just plain slower than Windows. I have yet to use a Linux desktop that is snappier than Windows, even XP with all the eye candy turned on. I've used a multitude of different configurations and not one has even matched Windows in terms of snappiness and lack of flicker. I'm typing this right now on a nice new shiny ThinkPad T43 with 1 gig of RAM, 2 GHz Pentium-M and a 64 MB ATI Mobility x300. And when I drag windows, trails get left behind. I see flicker with Qt apps and sometimes with GTK apps. There is flicker when flipping desktops. Windows on the same machine is very snappy and there's never flicker and slowness. Add to that the fact that half of the features of X don't work, or require hours of hacking around with config files, drivers, CVS builds and such to get working, I think I can safely say that Windows just plain does a better job than X11. It's sad too, because X11 has a nice protocol, just the implementation sucks.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[3]: Too little too late
by segedunum on Thu 2nd Mar 2006 22:08 in reply to "RE[2]: Too little too late"
segedunum Member since:
2005-07-06

GDI+ uses hardware acceleration for many things, so yeah, I'd say that Linux is behind it currently as well.

Errr, anything using OpenGL can be hardware accelerated on a Linux system. Hardware acceleration is transparent to GDI and applications using OpenGL.

Vista is something like 8-9 months away from shipping, and is already feature-complete. The betas that have been released so far are quite usable, just buggy.

Whether you like it or not, Linux *is* currently behind, and will be behind for the next while.


Windows Vista is Windows XP with a 3D desktop that will require some pretty hefty 3D hardware, and I know, because we have MSDN subscriptions and we get the releases. The only other thing it seems to have is some multimedia stuff, and the interface is obviously as a result of a great deal of soul searching within Microsoft as they wish for something that Apple has and they haven't got - style.

Goodness knows what it will consume when people use the full 3D, hardware accelerated desktop and then run a full 3D game on top of it. There is absolutely nothing that is revolutionary or different about it from a usability or functionality point of view. It's the same old update to Windows, and when it gets released people will say "Oh right" and then carry on with what they were doing before, just like they did with Windows XP and just like they did with Windows 2000 when that was promised as an uber advanced OS for the next ten years.

I'd actually say that Linux is going to end up being ahead, because the approach of XGL and AIGLX is to be able to use compositing in an efficient manner so you won't need full hardware acceleration for everything.

Windows Me

"Windows Me: PC Health Features Keep PCs Stable, Secure and Reliable -- and Take the Frustration Out of Computing for Home Users"

http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/features/2000/sept00/09-05winme....

Windows 2000

"Our primary goal is to improve security and safety for all our customers -- consumers and businesses, regardless of size -- through a balance of technology innovation, guidance and industry leadership," Gates said. "We're committed to continued innovation that addresses the threats of today and anticipates those that will undoubtedly emerge in the future."

http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/press/2005/feb05/02-15RSA05Keyno...

Windows XP

"Windows XP is the most secure and dependable operating system we have ever produced."

http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/press/2002/aug02/08-30WinXPSP1PR...

Windows Vista

"In Vista, it should be much more difficult for unauthorized programs (like Viruses and Trojans) to affect the core of the OS and secretly harm your system."

http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1697,1931914,00.asp

If you're lucky, all of the stuff in there may work by the next version of Windows.

Reply Parent Score: 5

RE[3]: Too little too late
by abraxas on Thu 2nd Mar 2006 23:04 in reply to "RE[2]: Too little too late"
abraxas Member since:
2005-07-07

GDI+ uses hardware acceleration for many things, so yeah, I'd say that Linux is behind it currently as well.

I said hardware acceleration/3D. Those are not available for Windows yet and that is what XGL/AIGLX provides.

Vista is something like 8-9 months away from shipping, and is already feature-complete. The betas that have been released so far are quite usable, just buggy.

Well it is a lot easier to get your hands on XGL and is probably less buggy and more usable than Vista is right now.

Whether you like it or not, Linux *is* currently behind, and will be behind for the next while.

That's a pretty poor attempt at disguising your opinion as an authoritative response on this matter.

Reply Parent Score: 4

RE[3]: Too little too late
by Tweek on Thu 2nd Mar 2006 21:49 in reply to "RE: Too little too late"
Tweek Member since:
2006-01-12

you must be stoned to think vista will be out this year...

besides that, linux stuff is out now and will continue to be released. Microsoft does not have vista released and therefore cant even compete...
just cause you went and downloaded a copy off of a bittorrent tracker does not mean anything.

Reply Parent Score: 3