Linked by Thom Holwerda on Mon 24th Apr 2006 14:05 UTC, submitted by CrimsonScythe
Apple The 17" MacBook Pro has just been released. The 17" model has Firewire 800 and 8x dual layer Superdrive, both of which the 15.4" version lacks. The new MacBook Pro was presented during the NAB2006. The machine will cost $2799,- in the US, or round and about EUR 2879,- (differs per country) in the EU, or GBP 1999,- if you live in the UK.
Thread beginning with comment 117779
To view parent comment, click here.
To read all comments associated with this story, please click here.
RE[2]: What A Joke
by Moulinneuf on Mon 24th Apr 2006 18:02 UTC in reply to "RE: What A Joke"
Moulinneuf
Member since:
2005-07-06

http://www1.us.dell.com/content/products/compare.aspx/notebooks?c=u...

Inspiron E1705 : 999$
Inspiron E1505 : 799$

BTW he showed a Intel Core duo system too from HP. Saying they dont come with OS X + software and same hardware is a valid argument , your point that the core DUO is pricier when Apple deliver it when its INTEL made and everyone use them is just bulshit.

BTW DELL offered to ship MAC OS X on its hardware , Apple refused.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[3]: What A Joke
by rayiner on Mon 24th Apr 2006 18:24 in reply to "RE[2]: What A Joke"
rayiner Member since:
2005-07-06

That E-series machine you linked to is a full 60% thicker than the Macbook. Is your point that you can get a lot cheaper machine if you give up form-factor? Sure, I don't think anybody would doubt that, but as someone who has done the whole "cheap Dell laptop" thing, let me tell you that it's not quite the bargain it seems to be at first.

Compare the price on something like a Thinkpad to a comparable Macbook Pro, and come back with that.

For example, you can get a 14.1" ThinkPad with 2.0 GHz Core Duo and X1400 graphics for $2200. The Thinkpad has a smaller screen, slower GPU, and smaller hard drive (or slower, depending on which Macbook HDD option you pick). On the other hand, it's a bit smaller and lighter, and $300 cheaper. Seems like an entirely reasonable trade-off to me.

The XPS notebook comparison is even more entertaining. The *cheapest* XPS model, the M1710, costs $3400 when outfitted with a comparable CPU, HDD, and wireless options as the Macbook Pro 17". For the extra $600, you can a much faster GPU, and a higher-res screen, but a notebook that is substantially larger and heaver. Again, the trade-off doesn't seem that bad, does it?

Or, consider Sony's VGN-FE590. Outfitted with comparable features to the 15.4" Macbook Pro, it costs about $2200. That's about $300 less than the Macbook Pro for a closely comparable machine. Is a $300 "OS X tax" too much? I don't think so. Certainly, it's a hell of a lot more reasonable than it was for the PowerPC machines. True, the machines themselves haven't gotten any cheaper, but the CPUs, instead of competing with the ones in bargain-basement PC laptops, are now comparable to those in the top PC laptops. When compared to these top PC laptops, the Apple laptop prices are quite reasonable indeed.

Reply Parent Score: 5

RE[4]: What A Joke
by Moulinneuf on Mon 24th Apr 2006 20:28 in reply to "RE[3]: What A Joke"
Moulinneuf Member since:
2005-07-06

"That E-series machine you linked to is a full 60% thicker than the Macbook."

No , I dont know where you get your data either , feel free to provide them.

"is your point that you can get a lot cheaper machine if you give up form-factor?""

No , not at all , its actually quite clear what my point was , that the dual core is not the only motivator in the high price the Macbook pro demand and that Dell do offer cheaper Dual core solution.

Now that I cleared that up lets entertain your other point.

"Is your point that you can get a lot cheaper machine if you give up form-factor? Sure, I don't think anybody would doubt that, but as someone who has done the whole "cheap Dell laptop" thing, let me tell you that it's not quite the bargain it seems to be at first. "

So your claiming that the Intel core Duo that Apple get are different in form factor and in price to the one Dell gets ? Your also claiming that because you bought cheap Dell model in the past that the newer higher end model with intel Core DUO will be the same ?

" Compare the price on something like a Thinkpad to a comparable Macbook Pro, and come back with that. "

Why ? Because rayiner think and said so ? Its of no value to me at all , if I feel that comparing a Dell to a Apple MacBook pro is interesting and that sharing that information is also valid in my view I will do so , I will also add that your thinking , again , that the Intel core Duo that IBM get differ from the One Dell and Apple get both in form factor and in price ?

"you can get a 14.1" ThinkPad with 2.0 GHz Core Duo and X1400 graphics for $2200"

Again your suggesting that Dell Core Duo differ from the One IBM and Apple get ? Or you simply changing the point of the discussion to show that if you use other parts you can come up with a smaller price ?

"The XPS notebook comparison is even more entertaining."

Are you again claiming that the Intel core Duo that the XPS get is different in price and in form factor then the one Apple get ? Or are you again changing the subject ...

"The *cheapest* XPS model, the M1710, costs $3400 when outfitted with a comparable CPU, HDD, and wireless options as the Macbook Pro 17" "

No , but nice try ...

http://www1.us.dell.com/content/products/features.aspx/cto_xpsnb_m1...

http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObjects/AppleStore.woa/wo/...

"For the extra $600, you can a much faster GPU, and a higher-res screen, but a notebook that is substantially larger and heaver. Again, the trade-off doesn't seem that bad, does it? "

You need to really look closer , because your just talking hardware , I suppose , you missed quite a lot on both side.

"Or, consider Sony's VGN-FE590. Outfitted with comparable features to the 15.4" Macbook Pro"

Really ?

http://www.sonystyle.com/is-bin/INTERSHOP.enfinity/eCS/Store/en/-/U...

Nope

"That's about $300 less than the Macbook Pro for a closely comparable machine. "

Nope , see above

"Is a $300 "OS X tax" too much? "

Yes. But the Macbook pro come with more then just Mac OS X as a differentiator.

"I don't think so."

Thanks for sharing , but how can I put it gently , your false , erronous , personnal opinions is of absolutely no value to me ...

"Certainly, it's a hell of a lot more reasonable than it was for the PowerPC machines."

Cant compare Apple to oranges ...

"True, the machines themselves haven't gotten any cheaper"

Around the same price , but offering more hardware and software and service , sorry I have to disagree with your false conclusion.

"but the CPUs, instead of competing with the ones in bargain-basement PC laptops, are now comparable to those in the top PC laptops."

No , your tottaly wrong , they are the same , Intel core Duo from Apple , IBM , Gateway , HP , Sony , Dell , etc are all the same and come from the same vendor they all get it around the same price too.

"When compared to these top PC laptops, the Apple laptop prices are quite reasonable indeed."

Not on comparable hardware only. Not because of the Intel core Duo either. The Macbook pro as more hardware solution and as more software and a different OS , thats why it cost more not because of the price of Intel core DUO.

If one remove the similar hardware and the Mac OS X OS , you still have tons of other stuff :

http://www.apple.com/macbookpro/

http://www.apple.com/macbookpro/whatsinside.html

In other words , The Intel Core DUO as absolutely Zero influence on the price difference as both have it , and its exatly the same part and Dell will offer it in cheaper model too.

You can keep bulshiting yourself that the model you offered compared , but last I looked they dont come with the same hardware , Mac OS X and its software and service and they cant be made to legally triple boot MAC OS X , Windows MCE 2005 , and GNU/Linux , etc ...

"the Apple laptop prices are quite reasonable indeed."

No , for 2,699.00 you can get more hardware that is faster from other vendor , you can get cheaper model too , its the overall value you get for 2,699.00 that is hard to beat.

Reply Parent Score: 0

RE[3]: What A Joke
by JohnOne on Mon 24th Apr 2006 19:29 in reply to "RE[2]: What A Joke"
JohnOne Member since:
2006-03-25

"BTW DELL offered to ship MAC OS X on its hardware , Apple refused."

Dell ASKED OSX, not offered. And Dell asked it when Apple still used PowerPC. Than, Dell ASKED to sell Mac-clone with PowerPC G4.

But, PowerPC G4 wasn't a poor processor? :-D

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[3]: What A Joke
by gdanko on Tue 25th Apr 2006 15:27 in reply to "RE[2]: What A Joke"
gdanko Member since:
2005-07-15

What was offered and what is shipping are two different concepts. The MacBook can and the Dell book can't.

Michael Dell also told Steve Jobs to return money to the shareholders and close up shop a few years back. Now he wants to ship his OS on his hardware? How does the crow taste, Mr. Dell?

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[4]: What A Joke
by Moulinneuf on Tue 25th Apr 2006 17:05 in reply to "RE[3]: What A Joke"
Moulinneuf Member since:
2005-07-06

"What was offered and what is shipping are two different concepts. "

Ok ... But thats not what I said is it ? No ...

"The MacBook can and the Dell book can't."

Interesting , since some model both came from the same manufacturer and have the almost exact same hardware.

"Michael Dell also told Steve Jobs to return money to the shareholders and close up shop a few years back."

In 1997 to be precise , 9 years ago , when APPLE was at the bottom , just before Bill Gates Invested 150 million in Apple , Michael Dell was asked at a technology conference what might be done to fix Apple, then deeply troubled financially.

"What would I do?" Mr. Dell said to an audience of several thousand information technology managers. "I'd shut it down and give the money back to the shareholders.".

Some people suggested that he was joking and was not informed at the time that Steve Jobs was back at the helm and did not knew that Microsoft would back them up with billion in product and support.

" Now he wants to ship his OS on his hardware? "

Yes , Mac OS X is an OS , contrary to the lie you have been told it can run on more hardware then just the one from Apple.

"How does the crow taste, Mr. Dell?"

Crow ? You do actually realize that Apple is a very small company even today compared to Dell ? You might not see it , but Apple , is its own worst ennemy , it was brought down to the ground by its own hubris and its likely that they will again , go that way , since they make the same mistake.

You see Steve Jobs could let Dell ship the previous version of Mac OS X (Panther) and claim that is own hardware and company is the one shipping the best and latest that Mac OS X (tiger ) as to offer , this way he make money on volume for is older OS and he make money from people who will whant to upgrade to the current version. When The new one (Leopard) come out he can then let Dell ship Tiger.

He just as to be clear that he offer zero support on Dell Hardware and that Dell must provide it to the client it ship ( Zero cost on more support for Apple ), Dell also must go tru hardware certification on every model he ship with Mac OS X , thats more money for Apple. They will also increase the volume of sale on the software Apple make , as people using Mac OS X on Dell might whant to buy there software too.

Before you start calling me names , I just described the ITune strategy for windows , but for Mac OS X on Dell. If it worked so well for ITune , there is a good chance it can do the same for Mac OS X.

Reply Parent Score: 1