Linked by Thom Holwerda on Mon 24th Apr 2006 14:05 UTC, submitted by CrimsonScythe
Apple The 17" MacBook Pro has just been released. The 17" model has Firewire 800 and 8x dual layer Superdrive, both of which the 15.4" version lacks. The new MacBook Pro was presented during the NAB2006. The machine will cost $2799,- in the US, or round and about EUR 2879,- (differs per country) in the EU, or GBP 1999,- if you live in the UK.
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RE[3]: What A Joke
by rayiner on Mon 24th Apr 2006 18:24 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: What A Joke"
rayiner
Member since:
2005-07-06

That E-series machine you linked to is a full 60% thicker than the Macbook. Is your point that you can get a lot cheaper machine if you give up form-factor? Sure, I don't think anybody would doubt that, but as someone who has done the whole "cheap Dell laptop" thing, let me tell you that it's not quite the bargain it seems to be at first.

Compare the price on something like a Thinkpad to a comparable Macbook Pro, and come back with that.

For example, you can get a 14.1" ThinkPad with 2.0 GHz Core Duo and X1400 graphics for $2200. The Thinkpad has a smaller screen, slower GPU, and smaller hard drive (or slower, depending on which Macbook HDD option you pick). On the other hand, it's a bit smaller and lighter, and $300 cheaper. Seems like an entirely reasonable trade-off to me.

The XPS notebook comparison is even more entertaining. The *cheapest* XPS model, the M1710, costs $3400 when outfitted with a comparable CPU, HDD, and wireless options as the Macbook Pro 17". For the extra $600, you can a much faster GPU, and a higher-res screen, but a notebook that is substantially larger and heaver. Again, the trade-off doesn't seem that bad, does it?

Or, consider Sony's VGN-FE590. Outfitted with comparable features to the 15.4" Macbook Pro, it costs about $2200. That's about $300 less than the Macbook Pro for a closely comparable machine. Is a $300 "OS X tax" too much? I don't think so. Certainly, it's a hell of a lot more reasonable than it was for the PowerPC machines. True, the machines themselves haven't gotten any cheaper, but the CPUs, instead of competing with the ones in bargain-basement PC laptops, are now comparable to those in the top PC laptops. When compared to these top PC laptops, the Apple laptop prices are quite reasonable indeed.

Reply Parent Score: 5

RE[4]: What A Joke
by Moulinneuf on Mon 24th Apr 2006 20:28 in reply to "RE[3]: What A Joke"
Moulinneuf Member since:
2005-07-06

"That E-series machine you linked to is a full 60% thicker than the Macbook."

No , I dont know where you get your data either , feel free to provide them.

"is your point that you can get a lot cheaper machine if you give up form-factor?""

No , not at all , its actually quite clear what my point was , that the dual core is not the only motivator in the high price the Macbook pro demand and that Dell do offer cheaper Dual core solution.

Now that I cleared that up lets entertain your other point.

"Is your point that you can get a lot cheaper machine if you give up form-factor? Sure, I don't think anybody would doubt that, but as someone who has done the whole "cheap Dell laptop" thing, let me tell you that it's not quite the bargain it seems to be at first. "

So your claiming that the Intel core Duo that Apple get are different in form factor and in price to the one Dell gets ? Your also claiming that because you bought cheap Dell model in the past that the newer higher end model with intel Core DUO will be the same ?

" Compare the price on something like a Thinkpad to a comparable Macbook Pro, and come back with that. "

Why ? Because rayiner think and said so ? Its of no value to me at all , if I feel that comparing a Dell to a Apple MacBook pro is interesting and that sharing that information is also valid in my view I will do so , I will also add that your thinking , again , that the Intel core Duo that IBM get differ from the One Dell and Apple get both in form factor and in price ?

"you can get a 14.1" ThinkPad with 2.0 GHz Core Duo and X1400 graphics for $2200"

Again your suggesting that Dell Core Duo differ from the One IBM and Apple get ? Or you simply changing the point of the discussion to show that if you use other parts you can come up with a smaller price ?

"The XPS notebook comparison is even more entertaining."

Are you again claiming that the Intel core Duo that the XPS get is different in price and in form factor then the one Apple get ? Or are you again changing the subject ...

"The *cheapest* XPS model, the M1710, costs $3400 when outfitted with a comparable CPU, HDD, and wireless options as the Macbook Pro 17" "

No , but nice try ...

http://www1.us.dell.com/content/products/features.aspx/cto_xpsnb_m1...

http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObjects/AppleStore.woa/wo/...

"For the extra $600, you can a much faster GPU, and a higher-res screen, but a notebook that is substantially larger and heaver. Again, the trade-off doesn't seem that bad, does it? "

You need to really look closer , because your just talking hardware , I suppose , you missed quite a lot on both side.

"Or, consider Sony's VGN-FE590. Outfitted with comparable features to the 15.4" Macbook Pro"

Really ?

http://www.sonystyle.com/is-bin/INTERSHOP.enfinity/eCS/Store/en/-/U...

Nope

"That's about $300 less than the Macbook Pro for a closely comparable machine. "

Nope , see above

"Is a $300 "OS X tax" too much? "

Yes. But the Macbook pro come with more then just Mac OS X as a differentiator.

"I don't think so."

Thanks for sharing , but how can I put it gently , your false , erronous , personnal opinions is of absolutely no value to me ...

"Certainly, it's a hell of a lot more reasonable than it was for the PowerPC machines."

Cant compare Apple to oranges ...

"True, the machines themselves haven't gotten any cheaper"

Around the same price , but offering more hardware and software and service , sorry I have to disagree with your false conclusion.

"but the CPUs, instead of competing with the ones in bargain-basement PC laptops, are now comparable to those in the top PC laptops."

No , your tottaly wrong , they are the same , Intel core Duo from Apple , IBM , Gateway , HP , Sony , Dell , etc are all the same and come from the same vendor they all get it around the same price too.

"When compared to these top PC laptops, the Apple laptop prices are quite reasonable indeed."

Not on comparable hardware only. Not because of the Intel core Duo either. The Macbook pro as more hardware solution and as more software and a different OS , thats why it cost more not because of the price of Intel core DUO.

If one remove the similar hardware and the Mac OS X OS , you still have tons of other stuff :

http://www.apple.com/macbookpro/

http://www.apple.com/macbookpro/whatsinside.html

In other words , The Intel Core DUO as absolutely Zero influence on the price difference as both have it , and its exatly the same part and Dell will offer it in cheaper model too.

You can keep bulshiting yourself that the model you offered compared , but last I looked they dont come with the same hardware , Mac OS X and its software and service and they cant be made to legally triple boot MAC OS X , Windows MCE 2005 , and GNU/Linux , etc ...

"the Apple laptop prices are quite reasonable indeed."

No , for 2,699.00 you can get more hardware that is faster from other vendor , you can get cheaper model too , its the overall value you get for 2,699.00 that is hard to beat.

Reply Parent Score: 0

RE[5]: What A Joke
by rayiner on Mon 24th Apr 2006 23:08 in reply to "RE[4]: What A Joke"
rayiner Member since:
2005-07-06

No , I dont know where you get your data either , feel free to provide them.

From Dell's web-page. The E1705 is 1.6" thick. The Macbook Pro is 1.0" thick. Hence the Dell is 60% thicker, right?

So your claiming that the Intel core Duo that Apple get are different in form factor and in price to the one Dell gets ?

Hardly. However, the machine that Apple puts them in is quite a bit different in form factor and thus in price.

Your also claiming that because you bought cheap Dell model in the past that the newer higher end model with intel Core DUO will be the same ?

I bought a fairly high-end Dell laptop a few years ago (an Inspiron 8200, their top consumer model at the time). It cost about twice as much as the machines you linked to. I also had a newer Inspiron (I don't remember the model, it was one of the gray and blue ones) at work. Neither machine is something I'd purchase for myself again.

While Dell's latest cheap laptops might be completely different, I have a hard time believing the economics of the market have changed so much in three years that Dell can now afford to put quality case materials into a machine that costs half as much as my Inspiron did. There is a recent macnn thread in which people have posted pictures of themselves standing on their Thinkpads and Macbooks. My Inspiron's lid flexes so much just sitting in a bag that the track nub leaves marks on the screen.

Why ? Because rayiner think and said so ? Its of no value to me at all , if I feel that comparing a Dell to a Apple MacBook pro is interesting and that sharing that information is also valid in my view

Not because I say so, but because comparing the prices of completely different products doesn't give insight into anything. A Cessna costs a lot less than an F22 Raptor --- what insight does that knowledge afford you? They're two completely different planes for two completely different buyers.

Regarding the links to the machines: did you even try to configure them equally? The cheapest XPS notebook is $2600, yes, but that's a completely different configuration. Bump the processor up to 2.16 GHz, add in Bluetooth, a remote, and a 100GB 7200 RPM hard drive, and the cost goes up to $3393. For almost $600 extra, you get a faster GPU, but a machine that has no integrated camera, and is bigger and heavier to boot.

Really ?

Um, did you even try and configure the two machines the same???

No , your tottaly wrong , they are the same , Intel core Duo from Apple , IBM , Gateway , HP , Sony , Dell , etc are all the same and come from the same vendor they all get it around the same price too.

I didn't say otherwise.

As for the rest of your post, it hardly makes any sense at all. Of course everyone gets Core Duos for roughly the same price --- what is the point in you saying so? Of course you can get a cheaper laptop if it has less features, again, what is the point in saying so?

Reply Parent Score: 5