Linked by Thom Holwerda on Sun 4th Jun 2006 13:01 UTC
Gnome I enjoy using many different desktop environments and operating systems. On a day-to-day basis, I use Finder, Explorer, GNOME, and KDE. They all have their good sides, but obviously, they have their fair share of bad sides as well. The next couple of columns will be about the latter. This week, I take a look at whatever bothers me about Ubuntu's GNOME/Linux combination (Dapper, obviously).
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RE[4]: Jeff Waugh's response
by searly on Tue 6th Jun 2006 11:57 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Jeff Waugh's response"
searly
Member since:
2006-02-27

"It's a case of pretty obviously basic, broken stuff, fundamental to a desktop, being left in whilst people pretend that a Linux based desktop can be a very serious replacement for Windows or OS X"

Nobody is pretending, there are millions of Linux users for whom Linux based Desktops are a serious replacement, me included. I am Windows free (and Spyware/Virus free) since 2002. Now that does not mean that Linux / Gnome - KDE - [insert favourite DE here] does not have its flaws in certain areas and that certain things are broken. But if you notice Jeff's post does not argue that, in fact he agrees with most of the points Thom makes, and even goes further in some areas saying that he is surprised Thom has not picked up on.
However it is always a question of how one communicates these things and the attitude of the person doing it. Here a little quote from Thom's article.

"Speaking of panels, please, GNOME developers, get your act together and fix that abomination, that thing from outer space, that amateuristic, UI-law-breaking, general piece of crap you dare to call a 'taskbar'. The GNOME taskbar is so utterly flawed it really just isn't funny anymore-- all due to one, big, huge flaw that the GNOME developers are aware of: the taskbar entries' buttons change size, completely at will"

Not only is this extremely rude, it is also pretentious and arrogant. Something that Thom doesn't seem to have is basic respect for people. If i were a developer i certainly would not listen to anything Thom says if this is the tone he uses. Words like "get your act together" , "amateurish" "piece of crap" certainly will not motivate anybody in fixing anything, nor will the intended audience be disposed favourably towards anything Thom has to say, even if the content of what he says is right. The content was ok, however the packaging wasn't. Well at least we know why Thom stopped studying psychology, he doesn't seem to know a lot about it. All in all Jeff Waugh's response was extremely well balanced and restrained.

And now in Thom's own words:
Well Thom why don't you get "your act together" and sort out your "amateurish" writing or remove that "piece of crap" you call a column.

Edited 2006-06-06 12:03

Reply Parent Score: 5

RE[5]: Jeff Waugh's response
by segedunum on Tue 6th Jun 2006 15:05 in reply to "RE[4]: Jeff Waugh's response"
segedunum Member since:
2005-07-06

However it is always a question of how one communicates these things and the attitude of the person doing it.

The attitude comes from the fact that some fairly basic things have been left for many years, and we're still told it can be a replacement for Windows and OS X. It can't.

Many people around here can probably paint over some of these issues because we know they exist and we're used to them, but other people simply can't.

Not only is this extremely rude, it is also pretentious and arrogant.

Pretentious and arrogant would be working on something and pretending to everyone that it is something that it isn't, and then whinging when that fact is pointed out to me. As well as that, it's leaving basic problems in and wandering off to go and create all the cool 3D, XGL stuff.

Sorry, but this goes with the territory. Hopefully developers and open source projects will be more careful in future and look very objectively at what it can and can't do, and what problems still exist.

Well Thom why don't you get "your act together" and sort out your "amateurish" writing or remove that "piece of crap" you call a column.

Thom's column and web site isn't broken.

Reply Parent Score: 1

thebluesgnr Member since:
2005-11-14

and we're still told it can be a replacement for Windows and OS X. It can't.

Actually, it can. You could argue that adoption is slow, but that's a whole different issue.

As well as that, it's leaving basic problems in and wandering off to go and create all the cool 3D, XGL stuff.

Whether you like it or not, XGL, 3D and other "cool stuff" is getting coded and it's here on the Free Desktop. It's about time you start accepting it and stop trolling about anything Novell-related at every chance that you get.

Thom's column and web site isn't broken.

Much of the criticism is valid (and lot of it is not, btw). I hope he will give a second thought to searly's post instead of keeping silly scores.

Reply Parent Score: 3

Thom_Holwerda Member since:
2005-06-29

If i were a developer i certainly would not listen to anything Thom says if this is the tone he uses.

Then please explain why various GNOME developers are contacting me about more details on my gripes, so they can work on it or think about it.

1-0.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[5]: Jeff Waugh's response
by sjkx on Wed 7th Jun 2006 00:39 in reply to "RE[4]: Jeff Waugh's response"
sjkx Member since:
2006-06-06

If i were a developer i certainly would not listen to anything Thom says if this is the tone he uses. Words like "get your act together" , "amateurish" "piece of crap" certainly will not motivate anybody in fixing anything, nor will the intended audience be disposed favourably towards anything Thom has to say, even if the content of what he says is right. The content was ok, however the packaging wasn't.

The impression I got was Thom not caring much how others might feel about what and how he writes. Maybe he hasn't learned how to express strong criticisms and opinions without them seeming rude, disrespectful, or offensive to certain people attentive to those negative qualities?

It's disappointing when potentially interesting tech-oriented articles/discussions on sites like OSN suffer from lowbrow devolutionary commentary by "uncooperative" participants. Subtopics like this always remind me of how challenging it is for many public/open sites to practice and sustain higher standards of civility, maturity, and sophistication.

It's a mystery to me why any OSN staff member would seemingly disregard and not strive for qualities of integrity, then behave almost hostilely defensive when related matters are brought to his attention. And what does any writer with a similar attitude convey about this site to other participants?

Might have been best just to ignore this side show but I felt strongly enough about the issue to register and make those comments as my first post.

Reply Parent Score: 3