"Microsoft and XenSource today announced they will cooperate on the development [.pdf] of technology to provide interoperability between Xen-enabled Linux and the new Microsoft Windows hypervisor technology-based Windows Server virtualization. With the resulting technology, the next version of Windows Server, code-named 'Longhorn', will provide customers with a flexible and powerful virtualization solution across their hardware infrastructure and operating system environments for cost-saving consolidation of Windows, Linux and Xen-enabled Linux distributions."
To view parent comment, click here.
To read all comments associated with this story, please click here.
Member since:2005-07-06
Member since:2005-07-06
I'd just like to point out: I'm not XenSource. I'm paid as a consultant for them, working entirely on open source code (largely for Linux or the core Xen codebase). I'm happier doing this than working on closed code, as I have had to in past jobs. I also do open source work on other apps, but that's not especially relevant ;-)
When I post here I'm doing so as a largely FOSS developer with extra insight into what Xen is up to. I'm doing it for free, on my own time, to help you guys know stuff. And generally I advertise the fact I work on Xen so people will know I have a bias and call me on anything iffy I might say. If I was a shill I would not do this.
> 1. You are not Linux (or any other FOSS OS)
> affiliated, agreed. You look at your own benefit
> and as your own commercial opportunity. Ok, this is
> why I understand why you would want to show us this
> move as positive.
I said it had advantages for XenSource, not that it had advantages for FOSS. XenSource != FOSS. In fact their commercial add-ons to Xen are closed source even though the basic hypervisor is permanently GPL and available for others to productise themselves (as Virtual Iron, for instance have done).
Whether it has advantages for FOSS is a separate issue, which I'm not addressing at all. I think you're confused about my original posts - perhaps you could read them properly before posting?
> 2. Linux and other Free Software OSes are hardly
> trying finally to be accepted as viable, and you
> get into agreement which will put them where common
> people will think of them as "another application I
> install under Windows"?
As opposed to Linux being an app that you install and run under Linux, by virtualisation? Under FreeBSD, under NetBSD, under OpenSolaris?
You can't stop Linux from running under virtualisation - it'll run under Viridian whether you like it or not because it can do full virtualisation. With paravirtualisation it potentially will run with better performance - which will make Linux look better than if the performance is poor due to extra overheads (Windows guests will be running with paravirtualised performance).
The other part of this deal is that MS will support Windows running under Xen - i.e. if you are an enterprise want a Linux-based virtualisation solution you can use Xen and MS will help you fix problems rather than saying "Debug it on a real supported platform". That's important for Linux as a virtualisation host in the enterprise.
> Well, the part I don't understand is why you try to
> show this as good move? (I'm not taking into
> account everybody here, people affiliated with
> Windows will probably regard this move as good,
> which they should. Your comments were mostly
> persuading the other side) IT IS NOT.
It's a good move for XenSource, which is all I've claimed. I think the jury will be out on whether it's good for everyone else until the whole thing has actually happened... If you've a powerful insight into why this is not a good move for everyone else, you could do one of the following:
1) Build on the Xen codebase to create a fully free enterprise Xen platform
2) Simply lobby the Linux kernel developers to not include Xen support in mainline Linux. You could also lobby Redhat / Novell not to include Xen support in their enterprise distribution on the grounds it'll be bad for their business in the long term.
In other words if you want to stop this it's the people who are shipping Xen support to the masses you ought to be complaining to, not the people writing it.
> And most of
> the people here agreed on the same conclusion as I
> did.
Doesn't really look like that to me. Looks like some are searching for MS conspiracies, which is usually a fairly good plan since MS do things to benefit themselves. Others posters just want information on the deal.
> In short: good that you post on sites like this
> one, but spare the hypocracy. Tell the truth. You
> see this as viable commercial opportunity, stop.
Actually, all I did was explain how the business deal would work and why it was beneficial to both companies.
Could you please identify precise quotes where I have lied, explain why they are lies (backing up this with factual information), and enlighten us all as to your Truth in this matter.
If you can't do this, perhaps you could quit casting aspersions and take part in a constructive and reasonable debate. In fact, maybe you should consider doing that anyway.
> You don't give a rats ass about outcome on FOSS,
> stop. I will even mod you up for the truth.
OK, the truth, here goes:
Personally I do care about FOSS, and given I'm not in management (or even an employee) at XenSource it's not really up to me what the higher-ups do. I found out about this through the press release, same as you did.
The deal will benefit both companies - this is what companies do, they are not altruistic. The deal may or may not benefit FOSS - whether it will or not is not clear, and speculation (even yours) is not fact. But I'm really not commenting on the wider effect to FOSS at all.
> If you want to say otherwise, just watch MS PR
> machine taking this deal into their teeth, and how
> they will show that to the outside world. History
> says it all.
Surely you're not suggesting that PR output of companies is spun in their favour and is not an objective source of information? The truth: all companies spin PR statements for their own benefit, even FOSS-based companies. It's part of business. MS will present this as a victory for them, if the deal had fallen through they would present that as a victory for them. If it hadn't happened, they would have said they didn't want it to happen.
> p.s. I can just imagine near future when some total
> nobody is saying how he installed that "Linux" app,
> and it wasn't good. Off course it won't be, because
> it is not app.
Virtualisation will let you run Linux under Windows, and vice versa. Nothing you or I can do to change that, Linux will be an app virtual machine under Windows (and vice versa) whether anyone likes it or not. This just changes the interfaces they'll use. You can already run Linux under Windows using a MS software stack.
Anyhow, if you have any concrete criticisms of me, please allow me to address them. You could even do so privately, so as to avoid spamming everyone else. Otherwise, perhaps we could just have a more rational debate?
Member since:2005-07-07
As promised, honest answer (the full truth) and a mod point from me.
Thanks
Anyhow, if you have any concrete criticisms of me, please allow me to address them. You could even do so privately, so as to avoid spamming everyone else. Otherwise, perhaps we could just have a more rational debate?
No need, you've told all already. Previous comments were half truth, this one was naked and complete for both sides.
p.s. I don't hate Xen, hell, I use it. I wasn't requesting a change or Xen dismissal. I just hate when truth is not complete. It was the lack of... that pissed me off.
"The first killer app was VisiCalc. This early spreadsheet turned the Apple II from a hobbyist toy to a business computer. VisiCalc came with room for improvement, though. In addition, a new architecture and operating system, the Intel-based IBM PC and MS-DOS, also needed a spreadsheet to be taken seriously. That spreadsheet, released in early 1983, would be Lotus 1-2-3, and it would change the world. It became the PC's killer app, and the world would never be the same. On May 14, IBM quietly announced the end of the road for 1-2-3, along with Lotus Organizer and the Lotus SmartSuite office suite. Lotus 1-2-3's day is done." Impressive 30 year run.
"There's a disconnect between how Apple CEO Tim Cook sees his company's tax strategies and how some members of the US Senate view it. That became clearer than ever today after Cook and two other Apple executives testified before Congress, explaining why they're holding most of their international income in Irish subsidiaries like Apple Operations International, which declare no tax residency anywhere in the world. AOI hasn't filed a tax return anywhere in the world for the last five years, yet it earned $30 billion in income from 2009 to 2012, according to a Senate report released yesterday." Just because something is legal, doesn't mean it's just. Apple, Google, Microsoft, and many more - these companies might not be breaking any laws, but it's obvious to anyone that what they are doing is scummy.
The new WebKit Opera for Android has been released. "Opera 14 for Android is built on top of Chromium 26, with a total overhaul of the UI in native code, making it fit well with the latest Android design guidelines. Go get the build from Google Play or point your browser to m.opera.com, and give it a spin!"
The Verge pointed me to a blog post by Leap Motion - which reveals how their Kinect-like motion control works with Windows 8. "From the second you plug in your Leap Motion Controller, you'll be able to browse the web and interact with your computer just by moving your hands and fingers in the air. With Leap Motion technology and Windows, you can do everything that's possible with multi-touch inputs - without actually touching anything. This also means that existing applications in Windows 7 and 8 will respond to your natural hand and finger movements. Soon, we'll show you how Leap Motion will work with Mac OS X." Quite cool.
PocketNow interviews Marc Dillon, and there's an interesting note about why Jolla is keeping the display properties under wraps: "We're leaving some of those details out because we do understand that there are a lot of really big players in the market and they tend to take certain components in the market and dominate them. We created the ability to actually be able to run Sailfish on multiple hardware displays and be able to swap components, so this is part of the demand and supply planning phase. We are committed to this industrial design which is a 4.5-inch display, an 8 megapixel camera on the back and a front-facing camera at the front, and the exact specs of the display we'll provide when we're close to delivery." Something you rarely hear anything about.
"This is my NeXTstation Turbo Color booting the Mac System 7.1 Operating System using a hardware add-on called 'Daydream'. The Daydream has a Mac ROM and a few custom ICs in it and hooked up to the NeXTs DSP port. Turns your NeXT into a full fledged 68k powered Mac." So cool.
"The NetBSD Project is pleased to announce NetBSD 6.1, the first feature update of the NetBSD 6 release branch. It represents a selected subset of fixes deemed important for security or stability reasons, as well as new features and enhancements. Please note that all fixes in the prior security/bugfix updates (NetBSD 6.0.1 and 6.0.2) are also in 6.1."
"At the end of a week in which Electronic Arts confirmed it wasn't developing a thing for the Wii U, one of the software engineers in EA Sports' Canada studio, in a series of since-deleted tweets, disparaged the console as 'crap' and suggested Nintendo should give up on hardware altogether. 'The Wii U is crap. Less powerful than an Xbox 360. Poor online/store. Weird tablet', tweeted Bob Summerwill, listed as a senior software engineer at EA Canada, in a reply to a tweet posting a link about EA's no-Wii U news. 'Nintendo are walking dead at this point'." The Wii U is turning into the 21st century's Virtual Boy.
"In NixOS, the entire operating system - the kernel, applications, system packages, configuration files, and so on - is built by the Nix package manager from a description in a purely functional build language. The fact that it's purely functional essentially means that building a new configuration cannot overwrite previous configurations. Most of the other features follow from this." Interesting approach. A Linux distribution, sure, but with some very refreshing ideas about system configuration.
Appfour added, among other features, C/C++ support to its new version of AIDE. From Android-IDE, "Now you can write parts of your app or your whole app in C/C++ on your device. AIDE supports the Standard Android NDK toolchain (GCC 4.6 + Bionic, STL, ...). No changes are necessary if you want to build an app developed on a PC with Eclipse. C/C++ development is fully integrated: Build errors appear in the error list and files can easily be navigated to with Go to file. The editor supports C/C++ syntax highlighting."
Member since:
2005-07-07
It's the latter, Longhorn Server / Viridian will be able to run Xenified guests natively through the use of a compatibility layer.
But it has advantages to both XenSource and MS, so it'll be interesting to see who gets most out of the partnership!
Sorry, but the only impression I get is... "doomsday".
Let me disect it a bit (why I understand and why I don't want to understand):
1. You are not Linux (or any other FOSS OS) affiliated, agreed. You look at your own benefit and as your own commercial opportunity. Ok, this is why I understand why you would want to show us this move as positive.
2. Linux and other Free Software OSes are hardly trying finally to be accepted as viable, and you get into agreement which will put them where common people will think of them as "another application I install under Windows"? Well, the part I don't understand is why you try to show this as good move? (I'm not taking into account everybody here, people affiliated with Windows will probably regard this move as good, which they should. Your comments were mostly persuading the other side) IT IS NOT. And most of the people here agreed on the same conclusion as I did.
In short: good that you post on sites like this one, but spare the hypocracy. Tell the truth. You see this as viable commercial opportunity, stop. You don't give a rats ass about outcome on FOSS, stop. I will even mod you up for the truth.
If you want to say otherwise, just watch MS PR machine taking this deal into their teeth, and how they will show that to the outside world. History says it all.
p.s. I can just imagine near future when some total nobody is saying how he installed that "Linux" app, and it wasn't good. Off course it won't be, because it is not app.
Edited 2006-07-18 19:04