Linked by Thom Holwerda on Fri 18th Aug 2006 20:31 UTC, submitted by Kian Duffy
BeOS & Derivatives Haiku, the open-source BeOS replacement project, turns five years old today. Founded in August 2001 as OpenBeOS with the intention of replacing BeOS due to the lack of action by the then-ailing Be, Haiku has seen five years of change in the BeOS market but continues to progress.
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RE[3]: "Open source" desktop
by sbergman27 on Fri 18th Aug 2006 23:05 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: "Open source" desktop"
sbergman27
Member since:
2005-07-24

OK So as of right now, the answers to my questions would be:

Firefox: Yes.
Thunderbird: Yes.
OpenOffice: No.
Quake4, Doom3: No.
Nvidia 3d: Probably not up to what I would need?
Printer: Probably no.
Package management: No. (How can an OS do without package management?!)
Ruby on Rails/Turbogears: Probably.
Java: No.
Network filesystem: No.
Flash: No. (And let's hope it stays that way!)
Fun: YES!
Security: No.

Is that a reasonable summation?

Edited 2006-08-18 23:10

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[4]: "Open source" desktop
by umccullough on Fri 18th Aug 2006 23:15 in reply to "RE[3]: "Open source" desktop"
umccullough Member since:
2006-01-26

Sure - sounds reasonable. But right now Haiku is also pre-alpha - so hey - whatever ;)

But please explain to me the exact purpose of "package management" ? - i'm not sure I follow how that's a requirement for an OS.

I'm pretty sure when I unzip an app and it "just runs" - that it is very much sufficient to get the job done.

Actually, please don't answer this - I think i see where this discussion is going, and I suspect it's pointless to even discuss at this point for Haiku.

Edited 2006-08-18 23:20

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[5]: "Open source" desktop
by sbergman27 on Fri 18th Aug 2006 23:32 in reply to "RE[4]: "Open source" desktop"
sbergman27 Member since:
2005-07-24

>I'm pretty sure when I unzip an app and it "just runs" - that it is very much sufficient to get the job done.

Hey, if it works it works. That strategy has worked, and worked well, for Slackware users for many years, even without my blessing. :-)

Edited 2006-08-18 23:33

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[4]: "Open source" desktop
by Ronald Vos on Sat 19th Aug 2006 10:35 in reply to "RE[3]: "Open source" desktop"
Ronald Vos Member since:
2005-07-06

Responses in italics:

Firefox: Yes.
Thunderbird: Yes.
OpenOffice: No.
Quake4, Doom3: No.
-->You're talking proprietary software, and for that the rare (2 out of 4?) exceptions of high-end games that have been ported to both Windows and Linux. You might as well go the 'Does it have Photoshop?'-route; Mac users would like that.
Nvidia 3d: Probably not up to what I would need? -->if the most advanced OSS version doesn't cut it...then no? I don't know why you'd want more than 30 FPS with your Quake ports though
Printer: Probably no.
Package management: No. (How can an OS do without package management?!)
-->Can you download binary packages of software you come across on the internet for Linux, regardless of version you're running? Actually, Haiku/BeOS has www.bebits.com, which beats most package managers hands down. Granted, for the dead links you'll have to crossreference to www.bezip.de but most Linux package managers lack the overview+interface Bebits has. A lot of package managers still have problems with dependencies still, Haiku/BeOS doesn't.
Ruby on Rails/Turbogears: Probably. -->If turbogears consists of interpreted ruby/python, you might get lucky ;)
Java: No. -->Actually, it can't be ported atm because of a number of lacking features. They're hoping to implement those for RC2. But yeah, no Java.
Network filesystem: No. -->actually, yes! http://www.bebits.com/app/1021
Flash: No. (And let's hope it stays that way!) -->does Flash 4.1015 count? ;-)
Fun: YES! -->To be honest, I'd say this is where Haiku will succeed where Linux didn't, but that's just my trolly opinion.
Security: No. [i]-->security through obscurity! There are less exploits/virusses known for BeOS than Linux :-)

[i]Edited 2006-08-19 10:38

Reply Parent Score: 4

RE[5]: "Open source" desktop
by axeld on Sat 19th Aug 2006 12:06 in reply to "RE[4]: "Open source" desktop"
axeld Member since:
2005-07-07

Just to set some things straight:
> Java: No. -->Actually, it can't be ported atm
> because of a number of lacking features. They're
> hoping to implement those for RC2. But yeah, no Java.

Java will run on R1. The port is on hold because of problems with BeOS, it has nothing to do with Haiku. In fact, Java (1.4.2) runs on BeOS R5 as well, it's just not stable in certain situations, and hasn't been released to the public yet because of that and a few other remaining issues (that would prevent it from getting Sun's blessing).

Also, while we follow the POSIX security model, you usually run everything as root. The API as-is will work fine in a multi-user environment, too, even though some (binary and source compatible) additions will be needed to make it work nice. Some apps may also need to be tweaked to run nicely (or, in some cases, at all), but if you follow the public existing API now and use it, you won't run into troubles.

Haiku R1 won't be a secure OS, but I'd be surprised if someone writes a virus for it :-)
Our first release is not really thought for a mass market, it's not a Windows killer or anything like that. And it probably won't fulfill some of the requirements you have today -- but this will certainly be addressed and changed in the future.
We have lots of plans with further releases, but we also need a clean and stable foundation we can build upon.

Reply Parent Score: 5

RE[5]: "Open source" desktop
by sbergman27 on Sat 19th Aug 2006 17:08 in reply to "RE[4]: "Open source" desktop"
sbergman27 Member since:
2005-07-24

Actually, *all* Id Software games from Wolfenstein 3D, through the original Doom series, through the Quake series, Return to Castle Wolfenstein, Doom3, Quake4, Unreal, Unreal Tournament series, Rune, and quite a number of other well known titles have Linux versions. I say Linux *versions* and not *ports*, since, in Id's case at least, the games are written in a portable style. Just plug in a renderer for the OS in question and you have a version (not a port) for it.

Actually, From Quake1 on, all the Id games have gotten official Linux versions supported by Id and released not to long after the Windows version went gold. The original Doom was ported by an Id employee years before the engine went open source, but I can't remember how official that was considered at the time.

Sorry to spend so much time on this point, but it's a common misconception about Linux that I try to address when appropriate. I have not wanted for games under linux since Zoid Kirsch released squake in 1996. And I do tend to go for the high end FPS's.

As to frame rate, I like to play at 1600x1200, 4x gaussian FSAA with a high level of anisotropic filtering, and at high or ultra quality. Even with the latest nvidia drivers on a 6800GT and an AMD64 4000+, I find myself needing a little more oomph to keep the frame rate acceptable. So no, non-optimal drivers would not be good enough.

On package management, I rarely install from random sites. Almost without exception, I find what I need in a well known repo. What is a "dependency problem", btw?

Ruby on Rails, so far as I know, is pure Ruby. Turbogears, so far as I know is pure Python. So I'm hopeful on this one.

On the remote filesystem, an nfsv2 *client* is half the solutution. But how does that fit with other posts here that indicate that Haiku doesn't have tcp/ip right now?

I have been having great fun with Linux, and Unix before it, since 1988. I can believe that Haiku is fun, as well.

And this really brings me to my real message.

Aside from having a genuine, if casual, interest in the current status and capabilities of Haiku, my original response was actually to ronaldst's thread starter:

"""Haiku is the best bet. More "Free" than the other guys. Not stuck in the 70ies. No major security problems. No "OSS fundies" clowns to ruin the fun. APIs are solid. Only good stuff."""

Note how it's not enough to simply praise Haiku. He feels the need to attack other OSes and their users.

Guys, have fun with your OS of choice, whatever it might be. I'm happy for you. But if you feel the need to start gratuitously attacking other OSes and the people who like and use them... don't. Especially when your own favored OS has some substantial housecleaning to do, itself.

Or, to put it more succinctly, people who live in glass houses had best not throw stones.

Going in to this, I really did not know for sure what the answers to my questions would be. But I had a pretty good idea that the answer would be "no" to a good portion of them.

To its credit, Haiku actually did better on them than I was expecting.

I wish the developers and fans all the best.

Edited 2006-08-19 17:12

Reply Parent Score: 1