Linked by Thomas Hormby on Mon 2nd Oct 2006 19:11 UTC
Apple Over its thirty year history, Apple has survived and even thrived despite boneheaded business decisions. From pricing the Macintosh out of most consumers' reach to creating some really ugly computers, Apple has made a lot of bad decisions.
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RE: Drop the politics...
by Flatland_Spider on Tue 3rd Oct 2006 19:38 UTC in reply to "Drop the politics..."
Flatland_Spider
Member since:
2006-09-01

"All it seems to me that when I hear people scream about 'poor labour conditions' and 'poor pay' when it is nothing more than a veiled attempt to justify their hatred, bigotry and straight out xenophobia."

Really? So my empathy for people who are getting exploited is not a reflection of the kindness of my soul, but some hard hearted impulse to justify depriving people of a lively hood.

Just because I don't like see people exploited doesn't mean I hate them; it just means I know corporations know better.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[2]: Drop the politics...
by ncsoze on Tue 3rd Oct 2006 21:28 in reply to "RE: Drop the politics..."
ncsoze Member since:
2006-10-03

We often call underpayment by US standards exploitation and bigotry. Often the low wages are the quite high in the country where the work is performed. We hear things like these poor workers are paid only $3 a day, however if the average salary in the area is $2 a day then the "exploited" people are not being harmed at all.

I do not claim to know about the conditions that the manufacturing company that Apple uses for iPods is, but Apple investigated it and did not find bad conditions. Of course the question is do you trust Apple to perform this audit or not.

To me, the deciding factor is if you as the worker, do they want the job to go away because they are being "exploited." If the answer is no, then they are not being "exploited."

Often these charges are made by Americans that fear that these are potential American Jobs. They wish to have people say that they would rather pay more for an iPod built in America. However, part of what allows us to enjoy the low prices we want is the use of cheap foreign labor. In most cases it is a win-win as the workers can be paid above the norm of the area they live in, while we get inexpensive goods.

I do not think that we can say it is bigotry as much as it is ignorance that makes people look for these statements.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[3]: Drop the politics...
by twenex on Tue 3rd Oct 2006 22:39 in reply to "RE[2]: Drop the politics..."
twenex Member since:
2006-04-21

I do not claim to know about the conditions that the manufacturing company that Apple uses for iPods is, but Apple investigated it and did not find bad conditions. Of course the question is do you trust Apple to perform this audit or not.

In my opinion it's unwise to trust any company or organisation to conduct its own audit. This is why even the police has an internal affairs department, or equivalent. Of course, then you have the problem of "who polices internal affairs?"! ;-)

Reply Parent Score: 1

Flatland_Spider Member since:
2006-09-01

Yes, there is a difference between being "exploited" where they are happily employed, I've been "exploited", and actually being exploited where they are close to slave labor.

My original statement didn't have room for the above semantics. ;)

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[3]: Drop the politics...
by kaiwai on Wed 4th Oct 2006 06:26 in reply to "RE[2]: Drop the politics..."
kaiwai Member since:
2005-07-06

Agreed; want to know what I get paid? I get paid $11.20 per hour NZ$, translated into US dollars, that is around US$6.8 per hour - to the average US person here, US$6.8 is bloody terrible.

I work 10 1/2 - 11 hour days, 6 days a week (I did work 4 weeks straight at 11 hours per day, collapsed on a pallet of goods; kinda funny when I look back at it).

So please, stop the whining, you yanks have it good, unlike you, we don't have the luxury of having a government invading countries secure cheap resources and push legislation upon other countries under threat of sanctions to satisfy large corporate interests, which then give over the top wages to their local US employees.

Edited 2006-10-04 06:30

Reply Parent Score: 1