Linked by Thom Holwerda on Thu 5th Oct 2006 20:49 UTC, submitted by Eugenia
Ubuntu, Kubuntu, Xubuntu "Is Ubuntu an operating system? Last week at EuroOSCON, Mark Shuttleworth gave the closing keynote outlining what he believes are the major struggles faced by the open-source/free-software community. During his talk, it became clear that Ubuntu is trying to achieve a radical shift in the software world. Ubuntu isn't trying to be a platform for mass-market application software: it is trying to be the primary provider of both the operating system and all the application software that a typical user would want to run on his machine. Most Linux distributions are like this, and I think it is a dangerous trend that will stifle innovation and usability."
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Good Article
by segedunum on Fri 6th Oct 2006 09:09 UTC
segedunum
Member since:
2005-07-06

Good, thought provoking article. Thanks.

I happen to disagree with Mark Shuttleworth and agree with this guy. Software repositories do not scale, and what happens when the desktop becomes more popular and people want to install all kinds of apps? Ubuntu barely has the resources to package up a lot of software now, and software like Bacula has been behind the times for a very long time. If you want a latest version then you have no option but to get unofficial packages of compile it yourself. Not exactly easy installation. With Winbacula all I do is install, and many configuration procedures can be automated as part of the installed.

The application developers are in the best position to know when their software is final and works, and if you can provide a good infrastructure in your operating system for making testing, packaging and installing painless, then so much the better.

Users being able to install the up to date software that they want is a problem to be solved, not avoided.

Reply Score: 2

RE: Good Article
by Ookaze on Fri 6th Oct 2006 13:46 in reply to "Good Article"
Ookaze Member since:
2005-11-14

Software repositories scale well enough thanks.
What doesn't scale is updates, given what you say. Try to at least understand what you're saying.
When the desktop becomes more popular, the software authors mae packages for them automatically (if they can, I don't think xvid authors can without risking lawsuits for example).

If you want a latest version then you have no option but to get unofficial packages of compile it yourself. Not exactly easy installation

True enough.
Not exactly the distro's fault. You could complain to the distro or to the software maker.

With Winbacula all I do is install, and many configuration procedures can be automated as part of the installed

So obviously, it's entirely the Bacula authors fault, not the distro's fault at all.

The application developers are in the best position to know when their software is final and works, and if you can provide a good infrastructure in your operating system for making testing, packaging and installing painless, then so much the better

So why they don't do that ? And why do you blame the distro ?

Users being able to install the up to date software that they want is a problem to be solved, not avoided

So why don't you start complaining to Bacula authors ?

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[2]: Good Article
by segedunum on Fri 6th Oct 2006 14:33 in reply to "RE: Good Article"
segedunum Member since:
2005-07-06

Software repositories scale well enough thanks.

No, they don't. Even if a new piece of software comes out, the only way you'll be able to get it is when the packagers get around to packaging up a version for specific version of their distribution. At the current pace, that's some time never. The time it's taken to update Bacula is a perfect example there which proves just how wrong you are. It's extra work which just isn't necessary.

What does a software developer distributing a proprietary piece of software like AutoCAD (one can dream) do? Package it up for a dozen different repositories and distributions, submit it and watch while it take six months or more to get it through testing and into the official repository? Dream on.

What doesn't scale is updates, given what you say.

Errrrr. No.

Try to at least understand what you're saying.

Well, it seems you're trying to find a way of saying that a repositories system is the best way of installing the millions of pieces of software out there. You're failing - badly - as everyone else has who's done it.

Not exactly the distro's fault. You could complain to the distro or to the software maker.

No, it is the distro's fault. There are no mechanisms and tools in place for creating a universal package that can be distributed and installed.

It is condascending in the extreme that you, or Mark Shuttleworth, should suggest that the software maker is going package up for every distribution and repository out there, or package only for Ubuntu. Hint: They aren't doing it, and they're never going to.

So obviously, it's entirely the Bacula authors fault, not the distro's fault at all.

No, it's the distro makers fault. Windows provides the mechanisms needed for installing and configuring a piece of software in rational manner. Ubuntu and Linux distributions don't do that, and there is no way people packaging up software are going to be able to put in the work needed to package up, what is really the same software, for umpteen different distributions and then watch it go through a repository system.

Not...going...to...happen, and isn't.

So why they don't do that ? And why do you blame the distro ?

Because providing tools that allow you to package up software, and install and configure it in a rational manner is up to the distributor and operating system.

So why don't you start complaining to Bacula authors ?

Because it's not their fault.

It's so straightforward it's unreal, but I suppose there seem to be a lot of people out there who want to defend software repositories as the second coming of software installation. Deluded souls.....

Edited 2006-10-06 14:46

Reply Parent Score: 3